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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 3:13 pm

If a sporting legend dies...........Or a politician like Mandela.........they get a minute's silence...........

But everytime a soldier puts his life down and gives up his future in Afghanistan or Iraq...........Nothing !!!

Mandela isn't British.............Hasn't offered his life for Britain......

I mean What's the deal...........

A soldier who gives up his life for Queen and country deserves more British respect.......surely than a great foreigner..

Just doesn't seem right............"No greater love hath somebody who would lay his life for his friends"........Very true and don't forget it!!

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 3:31 pm

Soldiers tend to die rather frequently. As such, the two minute silence on armistice day commemorates the dead from all conflicts.

As for why Britain should mark the passing of a man such as Nelson Mandela, here's a quote which is also 'very true':

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.

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Post by Guest on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 3:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If a sporting legend dies...........Or a politician like Mandela.........they get a minute's silence...........

But everytime a soldier puts his life down and gives up his future in Afghanistan or Iraq...........Nothing !!!

Mandela isn't British.............Hasn't offered his life for Britain......

I mean What's the deal...........

A soldier who gives up his life for Queen and country deserves more British respect.......surely than a great foreigner..

Just doesn't seem right............"No greater love hath somebody who would lay his life for his friends"........Very true and don't forget it!!
Unless, like me, you're a humanitarian and believes all life is sacred and worthy of respect and compassion



















except STEFFAN

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:24 pm

We gave the victims of 9/11 a 3 minute silence, should we have sacked that off also?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:26 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:Soldiers tend to die rather frequently. As such, the two minute silence on armistice day commemorates the dead from all conflicts.

As for why Britain should mark the passing of a man such as Nelson Mandela, here's a quote which is also 'very true':

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thy friend's
Or of thine own were:
Any man's death diminishes me,
Because I am involved in mankind,
And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for thee.
No individuality.........All chucked in two minutes of one day...........

No greater this guy than a boy who gives his life.......

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:34 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If a sporting legend dies...........Or a politician like Mandela.........they get a minute's silence...........

But everytime a soldier puts his life down and gives up his future in Afghanistan or Iraq...........Nothing !!!

Mandela isn't British.............Hasn't offered his life for Britain......

I mean What's the deal...........

A soldier who gives up his life for Queen and country deserves more British respect.......surely than a great foreigner..

Just doesn't seem right............"No greater love hath somebody who would lay his life for his friends"........Very true and don't forget it!!
Go kill yourself and I promise to have a minute silence for your sorry a$$

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Post by kingraf on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:36 pm

Don't know why on earth south Africans had to give Thatcher a minutes silence, thinking about it.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:37 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If a sporting legend dies...........Or a politician like Mandela.........they get a minute's silence...........

But everytime a soldier puts his life down and gives up his future in Afghanistan or Iraq...........Nothing !!!

Mandela isn't British.............Hasn't offered his life for Britain......

I mean What's the deal...........

A soldier who gives up his life for Queen and country deserves more British respect.......surely than a great foreigner..

Just doesn't seem right............"No greater love hath somebody who would lay his life for his friends"........Very true and don't forget it!!
Go kill yourself and I promise to have a minute silence for your sorry a$$
Go away cretin

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:38 pm

I'm not saying we shouldn't give Mandela a minutes silence...I know it's hard for some to read the thread properly..

I'm suggesting he's no more worthy than a kid who loses his life defending his country..

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:43 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm not saying we shouldn't give Mandela a minutes silence...I know it's hard for some to read the thread properly..

I'm suggesting he's no more worthy than a kid who loses his life defending his country..
Maybe your comments are better suited to the polititions and leaders who send these boys away to die.

Mandela never sent people off to war he made sure conflict was avoided.

Go away with your obvious hate filled comments. Over the past few years you have become a very cynical r***** old man.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:47 pm

At least you haven't come out and called Mandela a terrorist, while defending an apartheid government that mowed down innocent unarmed civilians....
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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:51 pm

kingraf wrote:At least you haven't come out and called Mandela a terrorist, while defending an apartheid government that mowed down innocent unarmed civilians....
Me commenting on this thread has stopped him going that far raf.

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:55 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm not saying we shouldn't give Mandela a minutes silence...I know it's hard for some to read the thread properly..

I'm suggesting he's no more worthy than a kid who loses his life defending his country..
So what did you mean by "Mandela isn't British.............Hasn't offered his life for Britain......

I mean What's the deal...."

Anyway, I would suggest that we haven't fought a war which involved actively defending our country for nearly 70 years. If you have a minute's silence each time a member of the forces dies, what about the police or fire service? And how many minute's silences would you have?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:57 pm

The deal is...........Mandela is S> African.........and the England team are having a silence in australia..

British soldiers die for their Country and it isn't even news.........

Have nothing but respect for Mandela..........

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Post by Gentleman01 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 5:04 pm

I'm not sure what you're arguing here;

That British citizens should not hold a minutes silence for Mandela as he wasn't British? Or that we should, but we should also hold a minute's silence for every British soldier who passes?



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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 5:08 pm

I'm suggesting that British soldiers are just as deserving.........Of individual recognition..

Not suggesting Mandela is undeserving.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 5:21 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm suggesting that British soldiers are just as deserving.........Of individual recognition..

Not suggesting Mandela is undeserving.
Yes you sre.

Mandela is one man who lived an incredible life that highlights the values of forgiveness and compassion why would we just ignore the mans passing. We should and do respect the lives of those lost in battle so why does it have to be one or the other as you suggest?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 5:22 pm

We'd never get anything done if we held a minute's silence for each of the thousand's of men Labour sent to their deaths though.....

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 5:24 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:We'd never get anything done if we held a minute's silence for each of the thousand's of men Labour sent to their deaths though.....
clap clap clap clap clap

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 10:57 pm

With Conservative support.........

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 06 Dec 2013, 11:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Conservative support.........
100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war.

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Post by SirJohnnyEnglish on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:17 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Conservative support.........
100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war.
Based on labours WMD propaganda

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:18 am

Nelson Mandela was against the war.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 2:07 am

SirJohnnyEnglish wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Conservative support.........
100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war.
Based on labours WMD propaganda
Thank God Labour ignored Conservative's lies and Labour voted against miitary action in Syria


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Post by The Fourth Lion on Sun 08 Dec 2013, 5:39 am

I sometimes wonder why we have any sort of silence for anybody anyway.  

Now, I don't say that out of disrespect to the fallen, or for a truly great global statesman, but because I think we've lost sight of the reason that we have silences for.

All I see on this thread is bickering and sniping about the actual doing of the thing, not the reason for doing it.

The reason these momentary pauses were ever instituted in the first place, was so that people would have a reason to stop and reflect.  Whether it be for the tens of thousands who died on the first morning of the Battle of the Somme, or for a man who became the very symbol of a struggle against oppression.  

I personally consider a silence to be an opportunity for private, personal thought but I feel that now it is all becoming a matter of "show".   We have to be seen to be stopping.... making a public display of "respect"..... Showing the world that we are doing the politically correct thing.... "Hey, everybody, look at me showing respect over here."

What we should be doing, actually, is to stop and, in silence, reflect on the horrors of war, or of the struggle somebody undertook, and the reasons why they did what they did.   In doing so, we have the opportunity to give thanks for what they achieved, be grateful for the benefits we have accrued, and perhaps make our own personal vow to be better people ourselves for the sacrifices that were made.

It seems to me that the value of these silences has become diminished in some respects.   It now almost seems to as if the whole process has become rather rote.

Just over a month ago, I was in a local shopping centre with the Me'm Sahib, and an announcement came over the tannoy informing everybody that there would be a minute's silence in respect for the start of the RBL's annual Poppy Appeal.  The first thing I thought was "Why...?"  

Why would I give a minute's silence to pause and reflect on the start of an appeal..?

I observe the two minutes silence on Remembrance Sunday with respect and solemnity and I reflect upon all those lost in war, especially my own relatives of two generations and my friends and comrades in the Royal Navy.... some killed in action, and in more than one tragic case, lost at sea.

Remembrance Sunday is appropriate and important to me as an individual, and our society as a whole.  But now we seem to stop for everything, no matter what and it is becoming not so much a reverential act of respect and reflection, but for some it seems to be becoming a tedious  "Let's-get-this-done-and-out-of-the-way" interruption to their daily business.  

In a way, the true value of Remembrance Sunday is diminished by multiple silences.  It ceases to be an act of solemnity and becomes rote political correctness (who would dare NOT to stop..?) and by the time it gets here, people having been asked to stop and stand in silence on several occasions in the lead up to it will have become, frankly, fed up with the whole thing.  Not out of disrespect, but sheer human nature.

If commemorative silences are to have any value we have to remember why we are having them and I feel that that is best achieved for making them a little rarer.... less "Oh-here-we-go-again" mechanical.  

I think we need to review not only the frequency of commemorative silences, but the practice of them too.

In the act of remembering, we need to bring back to mind the reason why we do it at all.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 08 Dec 2013, 12:16 pm

A few wallies on here have taken my thread as disrespect to Mandela.........Not at all.......great Man.......

But I think those that lose their lives fighting for their Country should be held in higher esteem....over here !!

Mandela rightfully worshipped in South Africa..

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Post by The Fourth Lion on Sun 08 Dec 2013, 3:27 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:A few wallies on here have taken my thread as disrespect to Mandela.........Not at all.......great Man.......

But I think those that lose their lives fighting for their Country should be held in higher esteem....over here !!

Mandela rightfully worshipped in South Africa..

A little bit of trivia for you here, Trussman.

The Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC) allow only the ashes of those who have lost their lives in military conflict to be scattered on the field of play at Lord's. And they don't have to have been members of the MCC.

I know it's not a big thing in the wider picture, but I figure it's sort of relevant on a predominantly sporting forum site and shows that in some places, a higher degree of esteem really is shown to the armed forces.
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Post by RinoGattuso on Sun 08 Dec 2013, 5:21 pm

F**k Mandela...

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Post by kingraf on Sun 08 Dec 2013, 6:55 pm

For some reason, I really did think that this is what you typed. Good for you. Typing nonsense to get a reaction is quite juvenile and pathetic... regardless, history will remember him far kinder than you, as he saved millions through the prevention of civil wars across Africa and the world as a peace negotiator and through his Aids fund... while you''ll be the guy who typed "f..k Mandela" on a tiny sports site.
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Post by RinoGattuso on Sun 08 Dec 2013, 7:49 pm

I win then.

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Post by kingraf on Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:02 pm

Yes... I can quite understand how you came to that conclusion.
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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sun 08 Dec 2013, 8:08 pm

RinoGattuso wrote:I win then.
No you lose.

Easy to write such a remark on a forum.....harder to live the life Mandela lived and win.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 7:16 am

RinoGattuso wrote:F**k Mandela...
why would you type that?

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Post by kingraf on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 8:44 am

Quite simple really. To get a reaction... I mean even apartheid police, some of whom are worse than WWII war criminals have grudging respect for Mandela (even if only because he ensured they weren't hanged)
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Post by ShahenshahG on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 9:24 am

its all in the name rinogattuso a supposed hardman

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 9:31 am

RinoGattuso wrote:I win then.
I never understand why some people are so proud of themselves simply for being offensive.

You showed yourself up as the type of person who tries to offend others simply because that's the only way you'll ever have any impact on anything in your entire life. That's not winning.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 9:32 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Conservative support.........
100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war.
0 Conservative MPs tabled the motion to go to war.

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Post by Il Gialloblu on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 11:38 am

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
RinoGattuso wrote:I win then.
I never understand why some people are so proud of themselves simply for being offensive.

You showed yourself up as the type of person who tries to offend others simply because that's the only way you'll ever have any impact on anything in your entire life. That's not winning.

Nice name!
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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 1:22 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Conservative support.........
100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war.
0 Conservative MPs tabled the motion to go to war.

and?

without conservative support there would be no war in iraq. 100% of conservative mps voted in favour of it.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 2:00 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Conservative support.........
100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war.
0 Conservative MPs tabled the motion to go to war.

and?

without conservative support there would be no war in iraq. 100% of conservative mps voted in favour of it.

voted based on a Labour tabled motion founded on a document of lies and falsities.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 2:11 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:

voted based on a Labour tabled motion founded on a document of lies and falsities.

I read that quickly and thought it said "lies and false tities".

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 2:21 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:With Conservative support.........
100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war.
0 Conservative MPs tabled the motion to go to war.

and?

without conservative support there would be no war in iraq. 100% of conservative mps voted in favour of it.

There is a reason Conservative MPs never bring up the war on Iraq as a subject to attack the Labour party, because it was the Conservative government who pushed it through.

voted based on a Labour tabled motion founded on a document of lies and falsities.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 2:35 pm

Oh, now they PUSHED it through?

They, the ones without the house majority, PUSHED it through??

Nobody mentions it because nobody came out of it well, what hit the fan stuck to everyone.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 2:42 pm

139 labour mps voted against the war on iraq

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 2:44 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:We'd never get anything done if we held a minute's silence for each of the thousand's of men Labour sent to their deaths though.....

Conservative mps sent them to their deaths too as close to 100% of conservative mps voted in favour of the war, perhaps you should mention that as well.

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Post by The Fourth Lion on Mon 09 Dec 2013, 10:52 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:139 labour mps voted against the war on iraq

And Robin Cook resigned rather than go along with the Party line. In this modern time that was a rare case of a Right Honourable Member doing a right, honourable thing.
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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Tue 10 Dec 2013, 5:17 am

The Fourth Lion wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:139 labour mps voted against the war on iraq

And Robin Cook resigned rather than go along with the Party line.   In this modern time that was a rare case of a Right Honourable Member doing a right, honourable thing.

His resignation speechin parliament was very impressive as well, his resignation and death was a loss to the nation.

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