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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:37 am

A Royal Marine who murdered an insurgent in Afghanistan said last night he was devastated over the decision to jail him for life.

Sergeant Alexander Blackman, 39, was told he would serve at least ten years for murdering the Afghan national in Helmand province in 2011. He has also been dismissed from the Marines in disgrace.

Many have turned out in support for Mr Blackman but cold blooded murder is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No point saying well...

Its war....
what would the Taliban do....

the man he murdered was being held captive. He was restrained and did not pose a threat this was cold blooded, calculated MURDER!

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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:41 am

I personally couldn't care less that he killed him, cold blood or not. Hopefully he is out after his 10 years are up.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 12:44 am

Lumbering_Jack wrote:I personally couldn't care less that he killed him, cold blood or not. Hopefully he is out after his 10 years are up.
This is our armed forces.

They need to carry themselves a great deal better then the enemies they face. Remember someone has to play the good guy. If our armed forces go around MURDERING people in other countries then how different are they from the enemy?

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 1:21 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:I personally couldn't care less that he killed him, cold blood or not. Hopefully he is out after his 10 years are up.
This is our armed forces.

They need to carry themselves a great deal better then the enemies they face. Remember someone has to play the good guy. If our armed forces go around MURDERING people in other countries then how different are they from the enemy?
Precisely.
Our leaders are the ones who keep pontificating about Human Rights (along with the Yanks). If they're to keep that pretence going (that we're the good guys), our forces have to behave better than those we condemn. So, either we accept that what this marine did was wrong, or we admit that, in reality, we're just the same as the Taliban.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 1:37 am

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:I personally couldn't care less that he killed him, cold blood or not. Hopefully he is out after his 10 years are up.
This is our armed forces.

They need to carry themselves a great deal better then the enemies they face. Remember someone has to play the good guy. If our armed forces go around MURDERING people in other countries then how different are they from the enemy?
Precisely.
Our leaders are the ones who keep pontificating about Human Rights (along with the Yanks). If they're to keep that pretence going (that we're the good guys), our forces have to behave better than those we condemn. So, either we accept that what this marine did was wrong, or we admit that, in reality, we're just the same as the Taliban.
My point exactly but better articulated.

The support fo this guy is something like 30,000 on face book alone but these people calling for this guy to be released are very ignorant. These same people talk about the Taliban as barbarians, un civilized, backward and glorify our troops as freedom fighters and heros yet they don't see the wrong that this guy did in killing an un armed prisoner.

The story in the news over the last decade has been of good v evil if we accept the killing of people held in captivity then its hard to see which side we belong.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 3:05 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:A Royal Marine who murdered an insurgent in Afghanistan said last night he was devastated over the decision to jail him for life.

Sergeant Alexander Blackman, 39, was told he would serve at least ten years for murdering the Afghan national in Helmand province in 2011. He has also been dismissed from the Marines in disgrace.

Many have turned out in support for Mr Blackman but cold blooded murder is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No point saying well...

Its war....
what would the Taliban do....

the man he murdered was being held captive. He was restrained and did not pose a threat this was cold blooded, calculated MURDER!
Let me guess, you think killing someone is acceptable as long as your government give you permission to do it?

What about all of the pilots who drop bombs on the taliban knowing full well there are innocent civillans nearby who will be killed, why are they not on trial for murder?




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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 3:28 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:A Royal Marine who murdered an insurgent in Afghanistan said last night he was devastated over the decision to jail him for life.

Sergeant Alexander Blackman, 39, was told he would serve at least ten years for murdering the Afghan national in Helmand province in 2011. He has also been dismissed from the Marines in disgrace.

Many have turned out in support for Mr Blackman but cold blooded murder is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No point saying well...

Its war....
what would the Taliban do....

the man he murdered was being held captive. He was restrained and did not pose a threat this was cold blooded, calculated MURDER!
Let me guess, you think killing someone is acceptable as long as your government give you permission to do it?

What about all of the pilots who drop bombs on the taliban knowing full well there are innocent civillans nearby who will be killed, why are they not on trial for murder?



Its called collateral damage so they are covered.

Also if the Taliban want to operate in civilian areas then who is to blame. This guy took a prisoner and executed him. Regardless of who that prisonar was or what he did an act like the one commited is a bad stain on the British military. There are rules to abide by when dealing with enemy combatants held captive. Cold blooded murder is not a rule.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 3:35 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:A Royal Marine who murdered an insurgent in Afghanistan said last night he was devastated over the decision to jail him for life.

Sergeant Alexander Blackman, 39, was told he would serve at least ten years for murdering the Afghan national in Helmand province in 2011. He has also been dismissed from the Marines in disgrace.

Many have turned out in support for Mr Blackman but cold blooded murder is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No point saying well...

Its war....
what would the Taliban do....

the man he murdered was being held captive. He was restrained and did not pose a threat this was cold blooded, calculated MURDER!
Let me guess, you think killing someone is acceptable as long as your government give you permission to do it?

What about all of the pilots who drop bombs on the taliban knowing full well there are innocent civillans nearby who will be killed, why are they not on trial for murder?



Its called collateral damage so they are covered.

Also if the Taliban want to operate in civilian areas then who is to blame. This guy took a prisoner and executed him. Regardless of who that prisonar was or what he did an act like the one commited is a bad stain on the British military. There are rules to abide by when dealing with enemy combatants held captive. Cold blooded murder is not a rule.
So you think it is ok to kill innocent women and children as long as you kill some bad guys at the same time.....

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 4:23 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:A Royal Marine who murdered an insurgent in Afghanistan said last night he was devastated over the decision to jail him for life.

Sergeant Alexander Blackman, 39, was told he would serve at least ten years for murdering the Afghan national in Helmand province in 2011. He has also been dismissed from the Marines in disgrace.

Many have turned out in support for Mr Blackman but cold blooded murder is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No point saying well...

Its war....
what would the Taliban do....

the man he murdered was being held captive. He was restrained and did not pose a threat this was cold blooded, calculated MURDER!
Let me guess, you think killing someone is acceptable as long as your government give you permission to do it?

What about all of the pilots who drop bombs on the taliban knowing full well there are innocent civillans nearby who will be killed, why are they not on trial for murder?



Its called collateral damage so they are covered.

Also if the Taliban want to operate in civilian areas then who is to blame. This guy took a prisoner and executed him. Regardless of who that prisonar was or what he did an act like the one commited is a bad stain on the British military. There are rules to abide by when dealing with enemy combatants held captive. Cold blooded murder is not a rule.
So you think it is ok to kill innocent women and children as long as you kill some bad guys at the same time.....
Not what I said.

The military will never be held responsible for innocent deaths while engaging in war if they were targeting the enemy. If the enemy mix within the population then THEY are the ones who are blamed in the end. Innocent deaths are just a tragic development as long as its not intentional.

What the marine did was to target a prisoner and execute him. Thats cold blooded murder.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 4:32 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:A Royal Marine who murdered an insurgent in Afghanistan said last night he was devastated over the decision to jail him for life.

Sergeant Alexander Blackman, 39, was told he would serve at least ten years for murdering the Afghan national in Helmand province in 2011. He has also been dismissed from the Marines in disgrace.

Many have turned out in support for Mr Blackman but cold blooded murder is COLD BLOODED MURDER.

No point saying well...

Its war....
what would the Taliban do....

the man he murdered was being held captive. He was restrained and did not pose a threat this was cold blooded, calculated MURDER!
Let me guess, you think killing someone is acceptable as long as your government give you permission to do it?

What about all of the pilots who drop bombs on the taliban knowing full well there are innocent civillans nearby who will be killed, why are they not on trial for murder?



Its called collateral damage so they are covered.

Also if the Taliban want to operate in civilian areas then who is to blame. This guy took a prisoner and executed him. Regardless of who that prisonar was or what he did an act like the one commited is a bad stain on the British military. There are rules to abide by when dealing with enemy combatants held captive. Cold blooded murder is not a rule.
So you think it is ok to kill innocent women and children as long as you kill some bad guys at the same time.....
Not what I said.

The military will never be held responsible for innocent deaths while engaging in war if they were targeting the enemy. If the enemy mix within the population then THEY are the ones who are blamed in the end. Innocent deaths are just a tragic development as long as its not intentional.

What the marine did was to target a prisoner and execute him. Thats cold blooded murder.
Pilots know before they drop a bomb on a target that there are innocent civillans in the area who will be killed, why is this in your eyes not seen as cold blooded murder?


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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 4:41 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
The military will never be held responsible for innocent deaths while engaging in war if they were targeting the enemy.
So if a marine kills an unarmed enemy by shooting him at close range that in your eyes is cold blooded murder. However if a pilot drops a bomb knowing full well that there are innocent unarmed civillans who will die as a result, that in your eyes is not cold blooded murder.

Both the pilot and the marine have intentionally killed unarmed non-threatning people so why are both not seen as cold blooded murderers?

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 4:58 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
The military will never be held responsible for innocent deaths while engaging in war if they were targeting the enemy.
So if a marine kills an unarmed enemy by shooting him at close range that in your eyes is cold blooded murder. However if a pilot drops a bomb knowing full well that there are innocent unarmed civillans who will die as a result, that in your eyes is not cold blooded murder.

Both the pilot and the marine have intentionally killed unarmed non-threatning people so why are both not seen as cold blooded murderers?
Ther pilot would be engaging in war they don't just fly over peoples houses for no good reason. If enemy fire is being directed from within these populated areas then what can you do?

Centuries ago armies would meet atop a hill or mount far away from civilian population and engage in battle. Nowadays war is engaged in the heart of peoples towns and cities. That is war today. What this marine did was to shoot an un armed man dead when he was restrained and posing no threat.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 5:08 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
The military will never be held responsible for innocent deaths while engaging in war if they were targeting the enemy.
So if a marine kills an unarmed enemy by shooting him at close range that in your eyes is cold blooded murder. However if a pilot drops a bomb knowing full well that there are innocent unarmed civillans who will die as a result, that in your eyes is not cold blooded murder.

Both the pilot and the marine have intentionally killed unarmed non-threatning people so why are both not seen as cold blooded murderers?
Ther pilot would be engaging in war they don't just fly over peoples houses for no good reason. If enemy fire is being directed from within these populated areas then what can you do?

Centuries ago armies would meet atop a hill or mount far away from civilian population and engage in battle. Nowadays war is engaged in the heart of peoples towns and cities. That is war today. What this marine did was to shoot an un armed man dead when he was restrained and posing no threat.
The pilot is given commands that the enemy are located in a certain area and their mission is to destroy them. The pilot can clearly see civillans in the area but he continues with the mission and drops the bomb killing the enemy and the civilans.

Don't start preaching about the marine being a disgrace and how he went against the oaths of the British army and went against everything the British army believes in by killing an unarmed man when you are defending pilots killing innocent civilans because as you put it
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:'That is war today'.



ONETWOFOREVER wrote:If enemy fire is being directed from within these populated areas then what can you do?
Well you can abort mission if innocent people will die as a result. The pilot can see from a very far distance exactly who is in the surrounding area yet they always seem to drop the bomb which kills innocent civilans.

The pilot dropping the bomb knowing full well that innocent civilans are going to be killed as a result has in my eyes committed cold blooded murder.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:11 am

You talk a lot of rubbish.

Look up the words INTENTIONAL and UNINTENTIONAL....then get back to me.

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Post by The Fourth Lion on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 4:43 pm

Sergeant Blackman has been rightly convicted and sent to prison for a minimum of ten years. Some say it should have been longer.

Something I have learned from personal experience is how war can dehumanise and degrade men.

Military training, for some, has the capacity to unbalance an individual with its intensity. Teaching men that the enemy must be despised... that it is thier duty to kill them and to do so is not wrongful, can have more adverse effects on the human psyche than intended. So it is not surprising that in some instances an individual may lose his sense of right and wrong and his behavioural standards deteriorate to the level whereby they go beyond the pale. Sergeant Blackman could well be one such individual.

This is not an attempt to exonerate him. In my opinion he has brought disgrace upon the service and his foul act deserves the most severe punishment.

I'm in no doubt that other things have been done in these wars (and others before them) that haven't come to public attention. I could tell a story or two of things I have heard about (though didn't witness) but I won't.

There is much suspicion that other misdeeds have been covered up.... so-called "Regimental Amnesia" under questioning.... the sanitisation of incident scenes before the Royal Military Police can examine the area. Many, many cases are being investigated in the courts due to complaints by civilians in the occupied territories of maltreatment, wrongful arrest and even disappearances of loved ones. In my opinion these complaints must be taken seriously and investigated rigorously. Those implicated in wrongdoing should be brought to account and if necessary, charged and tried.

Putting on a uniform does not put any man above the law.

Those people calling for Sergeant Blackman to be freed are, in my opinion, misguided and ignorant. They should be dismissed for the fools they are.

Above all else though, I'm sad that all this happened. I'm just so bloody disappointed and saddened. It reflects badly upon us all.

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Post by The Fourth Lion on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 5:02 pm

With regard to the situation regarding drone attacks on areas where civilians are present, A UN investigation into targeted killings by drones is currently examining UK operations in Afghanistan as well as US strikes in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia.

Ben Emmerson QC, a UN special rapporteur, has been undergoing a review for some months now, which includes checks on the use of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV’s) in the region of Africa where the conflict in Mali erupted as well as gathering evidence on Israeli drone attacks in Palestinian territories

Around 30 strikes were chosen as being representative of the different types of attack and are being studied to assess the extent of civilian casualties, the identity of militants targeted and the legality of strikes where the UN has not formally 'recognised' the conflict

From what I recall, the enquiry is due to report to the UN General Assembly in New York very soon, or may have already done so, although I haven't seen anything about it in the news.

Depending on its findings it may recommend action against the States involved though what that may be I couldn't say.

Emmerson has previously suggested some drone attacks, particularly those known as ‘Double Tap’ strikes, where rescuers going to the aid of a first blast are then targeted in a second strike, could possibly constitute war crimes.

The enquiry was the result of a request by Pakistan and two permanent members of the UN Security Council (France and Russia, I believe).

The Ministry of Defence gave assurances they would co-operate and the influential US Council on Foreign Relations formally requested that President Obama should “Provide information to the public, Congress and UN Special Rapporteurs..... on what procedures exist to prevent harm to civilians.”

Despite many US officials justifying drone strikes as acceptable in the so-called ‘War on Terror’, others in Washington have recently acknowledged a need to demonstrate legal justification for targeted killings to the international community.

Emmerson said “One of the fundamental questions is whether aerial targeting by drones is an appropriate method of conflict where civilians are embedded in a local community. One of the things we will look at is whether, given the local demography, aerial attacks carry too high a risk of civilian casualties.”


So there you have it.

Personally, I can see why drone attacks are favoured. They reduce the possibility of casualties amongst our armed forces and that has to be a good thing. However, the risk to civilian populations is very real and puts us at risk of causing unacceptable civilian casualties and the breaking international conventions and treaties.

I don't envy Ben Emmerson his job.
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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 6:05 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:You talk a lot of rubbish.

Look up the words INTENTIONAL and UNINTENTIONAL....then get back to me.
It is clearly intentional as they are fully aware that civillans are in the area and they are fully aware that the dropping of a bomb will kill those civillans.


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Post by Lumbering_Jack on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 6:13 pm

It's nice that people can sit behind a computer talking about the merits combat. This man had only moments earlier been trying to kill British soldiers. He got what he deserved.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 7:37 pm

It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 7:54 pm

I'd have probably discharged the marine from the army for life, but not sentenced him to any time in jail.

Sad that a chap who served his country will be treated as scum in a jail, while the two who hacked Lee Rigby to death (whose case is being given little coverage by the multicultural BBC, similar to the Colin Greenway murder that was given little coverage) will probably be revered as heroes because of the ever-growing Muslim population in our British jails.


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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:03 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:It's nice that people can sit behind a computer talking about the merits combat. This man had only moments earlier been trying to kill British soldiers. He got what he deserved.
So what if he was trying to kill British soldiers.

The fact is he was caught and detained therefore he is a prisoner of war and there asre rules to abide by.

If his act did not go unpunished then who are we to talk about democracy. Why are we going into these lands to ''free the Afghan pople'' if we are happy to flaunt the rules of a free civilized nation. Someone has to take the higher ground in all of this. If we act like barbarians then we have lost the so called war on terror. Its not won by taking ground or bombing countries back to the stone age its won by standing firm to our values and principles even in the harshest of enviroments and situations.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:13 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:18 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
So if we judge (or portray) our enemies as being sub-human, we can treat them as such and still keep up the pretense of our moral superiority?
You're on a pretty slippery slope there IMO.

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Post by The Fourth Lion on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:20 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'd have probably discharged the marine from the army for life, but not sentenced him to any time in jail.

Sad that a chap who served his country will be treated as scum in a jail, while the two who hacked Lee Rigby to death (whose case is being given little coverage by the multicultural BBC, similar to the Colin Greenway murder that was given little coverage) will probably be revered as heroes because of the ever-growing Muslim population in our British jails.

You seem concerned over the Lee Rigby trial, and yet the thread I started on that very subject at the start of the week has been completely ignored.

Perhaps you would like to comment on there and we could discuss the merits / demerits of that situation in the proper forum.
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Post by The Fourth Lion on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:24 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.


I would be grateful if you would specify which countries you are talking about.

When you say "these countries" do you mean Great Britain and USA..?

Which country do you mean, that was founded on violence..?

I'd like to respond to some comments on here, but want to be sure I'm not veering wildly off course in doing so. Thanks.
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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:25 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.
You keep taking the moral high ground over this marine killing the hostage yet you are happy for pilots to drop bombs which they know will kill innocent civillians.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:30 pm

The Fourth Lion wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.

I would be grateful if you would specify which countries you are talking about.  

When you say "these countries" do you mean Great Britain and USA..?

Which country do you mean, that was founded on violence..?

I'd like to respond to some comments on here, but want to be sure I'm not veering wildly off course in doing so.   Thanks.
No problem Lion

I was responding to TRUSS who is American. For an American to say that such and such are violent and know only violence and deserve what they get is quite laughable. Its a typical gun ho approach to everything from them.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:35 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I'd have probably discharged the marine from the army for life, but not sentenced him to any time in jail.

Sad that a chap who served his country will be treated as scum in a jail, while the two who hacked Lee Rigby to death (whose case is being given little coverage by the multicultural BBC, similar to the Colin Greenway murder that was given little coverage) will probably be revered as heroes because of the ever-growing Muslim population in our British jails.

We all know you have a problem with non white people Duty but try to think like a decent human being for once. Try to use your BRAIN. Why do you think there is not enough coverage for the 2 animals that killed Lee Rigby?

They killed the guy with loads of witnesses around and camera footage yet have pleaded NOT GUILTY why?

because they want their time in the spot light and a platform to spew their poison why should we let them have it. Find them guilty, jail them and throw away the f**king key.

Its like that your like minded comrade Andreas Brevick getting little to no time on the networks to push forward his and your racist backward ideology.
Yes OneTwo, that is exactly what you should be doing.

I have a problem with non-white people? picard 

Oh dear, how have you come to that conclusion?

Just to make sure, I have no problem with non-white people.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:37 pm

Your a xenophobe Duty.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:40 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Your a xenophobe Duty.
Listen onetwo the nca forum was closed because people kept making insults such as calling people racists etc. Stop calling people racists because all you will end up doing is getting this section closed as well.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:42 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Your a xenophobe Duty.
Sorry, what am I? I had a problem with non-white people a few minutes ago. Dear, oh dear.

Or does it even matter, since your grammar is at the level of a ten-year-old and I should treat you as such?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:42 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.
I'm talking about terrorists.......Not talking about the "people".......

Thing is about all this we have to be superior crap is that Life is too short............As honest people in the World trade center found out...

You can keep all this moral stuff...........Because I'm scared of these people because they don't think like us...they don't live like us and western life is meaningless to them......

So let's do what we can to find out where these terrorists are by using any method we like...........and then let our troops be judge and jury.......Because I'm interwested in helping people that appreciate life.......

As for Guantanimo bay any dumbass who is hanging around terrorists innocent or not........deserves all he gets...especially Brits that went over..............

These people since 9/11 have realised we are not taking it anymore and I for one am glad..

No sentence for this soldier for me........

New York is just up the road from where I lived.............9/11 changed all my liberal feelings when it comes to defence...

Screw them.......

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:45 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Your a xenophobe Duty.
Listen onetwo the nca forum was closed because people kept making insults such as calling people racists etc. Stop calling people racists because all you will end up doing is getting this section closed as well.
A xenophobe is not a racist.
Xenophobia is the irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. You are welcome to admit that you are a xenophobe in Britain its perfectly fine no law against it. Education is the cure however.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:47 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Your a xenophobe Duty.
Listen onetwo the nca forum was closed because people kept making insults such as calling people racists etc. Stop calling people racists because all you will end up doing is getting this section closed as well.
A xenophobe is not a racist.
Xenophobia is the irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. You are welcome to admit that you are a xenophobe in Britain its perfectly fine no law against it. Education is the cure however.
What about the bit where you said I had a problem with non-white people? Isn't that calling me racist?

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:49 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.
I'm talking about terrorists.......Not talking about the "people".......

Thing is about all this we have to be superior crap is that Life is too short............As honest people in the World trade center found out...

You can keep all this moral stuff...........Because I'm scared of these people because they don't think like us...they don't live like us and western life is meaningless to them......

So let's do what we can to find out where these terrorists are by using any method we like...........and then let our troops be judge and jury.......Because I'm interwested in helping people that appreciate life.......

As for Guantanimo bay any dumbass who is hanging around terrorists innocent or not........deserves all he gets...especially Brits that went over..............

These people since 9/11 have realised we are not taking it anymore and I for one am glad..

No sentence for this soldier for me........

New York is just up the road from where I lived.............9/11 changed all my liberal feelings when it comes to defence...

Screw them.......
Well its a good thing you are just a gun ho, gun totting yank sitting behind a keyboard venting your anger at the world and not a viable, worthwhile, open minded human being who is in the position to effect the lives of many.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:50 pm

So Onetwo, who p!ssed in your cereal this morning?

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:51 pm

Duty281 wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Your a xenophobe Duty.
Listen onetwo the nca forum was closed because people kept making insults such as calling people racists etc. Stop calling people racists because all you will end up doing is getting this section closed as well.
A xenophobe is not a racist.
Xenophobia is the irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. You are welcome to admit that you are a xenophobe in Britain its perfectly fine no law against it. Education is the cure however.
What about the bit where you said I had a problem with non-white people? Isn't that calling me racist?
In order not to get this thread locked I will point you to your open membership of the BNP and leave it at that.


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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:53 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Your a xenophobe Duty.
Listen onetwo the nca forum was closed because people kept making insults such as calling people racists etc. Stop calling people racists because all you will end up doing is getting this section closed as well.
A xenophobe is not a racist.
Xenophobia is the irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. You are welcome to admit that you are a xenophobe in Britain its perfectly fine no law against it. Education is the cure however.
What about the bit where you said I had a problem with non-white people? Isn't that calling me racist?
In order not to get this thread locked I will point you to your open membership of the BNP and leave it at that.

Onetwo remember this is your thread and you are turning your own thread into a slanging match

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Post by tomfinneywalksonwater on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:53 pm

No two ways about it, this was a blooded execution. I don't know how many of you have heard the helmet cam footage, but in it Sgt Blackman makes reference to the fact that they have just broken the Geneva convention with there actions. For years we have been trying to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan public, one stupid act of brutality could wipe this out in a heartbeat.

We are the good guys, we don't play by there rules as we are bound by the Geneva convention, the law of arm conflict, uk law and the law of the land we are serving in. This is what seperates us from the Taliban. A senior marine knows this as does every member of armed forces serving overseas.

One minute a bloke can be trying to blow you and your section to pieces, the next you could be giving him first aid, which is what Sgt Blackman should've done.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:54 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.
You keep taking the moral high ground over this marine killing the hostage yet you are happy for pilots to drop bombs which they know will kill innocent civillians.
While I do agree that 'collateral damage' is a term that can hide a multitude of sins and that bombing areas where there are civilians is, at the very least, problematic, I do think there are differences between the scenario you describe and that of the murder of the Afghan.
Firstly, there may well be a genuine credible military reason for carrying out such bombing. There was no such reason to kill the insurgent. Indeed, that may well have been detrimental to the military cause. Secondly (and I know that it's not much of a defence), the pilot will simply be carrying out orders while marine A knowingly disobeyed the rules of combat.
If the pilot's carrying out the bombing were doing so against orders, or if they were specifically targetting civilians or enemy troops who had surrendered, then they too would be guilty of murder in the same way IMO.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:55 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Your a xenophobe Duty.
Listen onetwo the nca forum was closed because people kept making insults such as calling people racists etc. Stop calling people racists because all you will end up doing is getting this section closed as well.
A xenophobe is not a racist.
Xenophobia is the irrational or unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. You are welcome to admit that you are a xenophobe in Britain its perfectly fine no law against it. Education is the cure however.
What about the bit where you said I had a problem with non-white people? Isn't that calling me racist?
In order not to get this thread locked I will point you to your open membership of the BNP and leave it at that.

What are you blathering about now? I'm not a member of the BNP, don't like Nick Griffin, and don't like their policies. :scratch:

I would never, ever vote for the BNP, just to confirm.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 8:58 pm

tomfinneywalksonwater wrote:No two ways about it,  this was a blooded execution. I don't know how many of you have heard the helmet cam footage, but in it Sgt Blackman makes reference to the fact that they have just broken the Geneva convention with there actions. For years we have been trying to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan public, one stupid act of brutality could wipe this out in a heartbeat.  

We are the good guys, we don't play by there rules as we are bound by the Geneva convention, the law of arm conflict, uk law and the law of the land we are serving in. This is what seperates us from the Taliban. A senior marine knows this as does every member of armed forces serving overseas.

One minute a bloke can be trying to blow you and your section to pieces, the next you could be giving him first aid, which is what Sgt Blackman should've done.
clap clap clap 

Well said this was my point before this thread got silly.

We will win this so called war on terror by standing firm to our ideals and principles no matter how bad the situation. Its what seperates us from somali criminals storming a shopping mall and killing innocent people. If we revert to their ways we have lost pure and simple and our childrens children will be fighting this war over and over.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 9:04 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.
You keep taking the moral high ground over this marine killing the hostage yet you are happy for pilots to drop bombs which they know will kill innocent civillians.
While I do agree that 'collateral damage' is a term that can hide a multitude of sins and that bombing areas where there are civilians is, at the very least, problematic, I do think there are differences between the scenario you describe and that of the murder of the Afghan.
Firstly, there may well be a genuine credible military reason for carrying out such bombing. There was no such reason to kill the insurgent. Indeed, that may well have been detrimental to the military cause. Secondly (and I know that it's not much of a defence), the pilot will simply be carrying out orders while marine A knowingly disobeyed the rules of combat.
If the pilot's carrying out the bombing were doing so against orders, or if they were specifically targetting civilians or enemy troops who had surrendered, then they too would be guilty of murder in the same way IMO.
The Nuremberg trials made the ruling that obeying orders was not a defence against war crimes.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 9:05 pm

I have nothing against you Duty you are a bright young man who needs to do some growing up a little. In time you will see that hating people different to you is pointless and you will learn how to value your own humanity.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 9:06 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
tomfinneywalksonwater wrote:No two ways about it,  this was a blooded execution. I don't know how many of you have heard the helmet cam footage, but in it Sgt Blackman makes reference to the fact that they have just broken the Geneva convention with there actions. For years we have been trying to win the hearts and minds of the Afghan public, one stupid act of brutality could wipe this out in a heartbeat.  

We are the good guys, we don't play by there rules as we are bound by the Geneva convention, the law of arm conflict, uk law and the law of the land we are serving in. This is what seperates us from the Taliban. A senior marine knows this as does every member of armed forces serving overseas.

One minute a bloke can be trying to blow you and your section to pieces, the next you could be giving him first aid, which is what Sgt Blackman should've done.
clap clap clap 

Well said this was my point before this thread got silly.

We will win this so called war on terror by standing firm to our ideals and principles no matter how bad the situation. Its what seperates us from somali criminals storming a shopping mall and killing innocent people. If we revert to their ways we have lost pure and simple and our childrens children will be fighting this war over and over.
But the Uk and the US kill countless numbers of civillians by dropping bombs on them from a plane or by having a drone kill them.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 9:08 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:I have nothing against you Duty you are a bright young man who needs to do some growing up a little. In time you will see that hating people different to you is pointless and you will learn how to value your own humanity.
And I have no problem with you except I have no clue what you're banging on about.

Xenophobic? Racist? Member of the BNP? None of those things are true.

And now who exactly do I hate that's different to me? Headscratch 

I'd be very interested to know.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sat 07 Dec 2013, 9:16 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It's the old argument I suppose where we are supposed to show we don't stoop to their level etc........Like with the waterboarding stuff.......

Personally couldn't care less If this guy got wasted....Al queda terrorists....and I'd waterboard all the b*****ds whether they had anything to say or not.......

If he was american he wouldn't be serving a sentence at all..........Brits need to take a more devil-may-care attitude........To servicemen cocking up or not..........

Violence is all these creatures understand...Let them have it..

These lives are worthless so why serve time for them.
What about the peaceful people of these countries who don't want war with anyone and just want to live in a fair and peaceful society for there families and children. What example does murdering un armed prisoners reflect on them? They are powerless because the backward thinking bunch amoung them are the ones with the guns who abuse their power.

You say violence is all these people understand yet your country was founded on violence and has been thee most violent nation on earth for decades so what do you deserve.

No matter what these terrorists do we should never stoop to that level or we will loose our souls.
You keep taking the moral high ground over this marine killing the hostage yet you are happy for pilots to drop bombs which they know will kill innocent civillians.
While I do agree that 'collateral damage' is a term that can hide a multitude of sins and that bombing areas where there are civilians is, at the very least, problematic, I do think there are differences between the scenario you describe and that of the murder of the Afghan.
Firstly, there may well be a genuine credible military reason for carrying out such bombing. There was no such reason to kill the insurgent. Indeed, that may well have been detrimental to the military cause. Secondly (and I know that it's not much of a defence), the pilot will simply be carrying out orders while marine A knowingly disobeyed the rules of combat.
If the pilot's carrying out the bombing were doing so against orders, or if they were specifically targetting civilians or enemy troops who had surrendered, then they too would be guilty of murder in the same way IMO.
The Nuremberg trials made the ruling that obeying orders was not a defence against war crimes.
That is true, which is why I said it's not much of a defence. However, I think the view that obeying orders is no defence is a little inflexible. After all, these men are trained to obey orders are they not? It's very difficult in an organisation such as the military to simply refuse to do what you are told. In any case, in the situation you describe there is also the matter of precedent. Bombs have been dropped numerous times on areas that were known to contain civilians and no-one has, as far as I'm aware, been found guilty of war crimes for so doing. Now, you and I may believe that such actions should constitute a war crime, but you can hardly blame the pilot for carrying out an order that has been given many times in the past without being seen as such.
The case of marine A is different, however, in that not only was acting of his own volition but he was also fully aware that his actions were against the law.

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