1st ODI thread, Melbourne

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

"@ECB_cricket: Eng: Cook (c), Bell, Root, Ballance, Morgan, Bopara, Buttler, Stokes, Bresnan, Jordan, Rankin #ausveng"

That's our team. We gonna get done

Aus: DA Warner, AJ Finch, SR Watson, MJ Clarke*, GJ Bailey, GJ Maxwell, BJ Haddin†, JP Faulkner, NM Coulter-Nile, CJ McKay, XJ Doherty

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Ooo and we won the toss and will bat

[CaledonianCraig]

It will be interesting to see how Jordan and Buttler get on. Can England begin to erase a fraction of their Ashes pain?

[Pal Joey]

Edited the OP for ya, Olly.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Ta LB

Cook gone for 4

[Duty281]

Like I've never been away. Some ridiculous time in the morning...and England lose an early wicket!

Oh and England have got the team selection wrong again. Should be Tredders in for Ballance; now Root and Bopara have to bowl ten overs between them.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Thank god root got out, horrible.

[CaledonianCraig]

Like I said on the test threads I am yet to be as convinced as others seem to be by Root. A very good partnership between Ballance and Morgan ends with Morgan out for a run a ball 50. England 145 for 4 after 31.4 overs.

[CaledonianCraig]

Ballance gets his first 50 for England. England 157 for 4 from 34 overs.

[CaledonianCraig]

Ballance out after a fine knock of 79. England 228 for 7 and they look set to post a score around 250.

[CaledonianCraig]

A decent recovery from England to reach 269 for 7 considering they were 22 for 2. Ballance, Morgan, Bell and Butler the chief contributers. The question is can England's limited bowling line-up restrict Australia?

[KP_fan]

not bad...Ballance played the sheet anchor.....Morgan was good...and Butler finished well...batting looked good.

with stokes and bresnan the 3rd and 4th bowler and no spinner...bowling is where the team lacks depth.....

[KP_fan]

jordan...I see is another foreign recruit  

[CaledonianCraig]

England not taking their chances and the green bowling attack may cost them as well. Finch has started well with Australia 48 for 0.

[Pal Joey]

Warner gets a life. Clean edge to Buttler but did that carry?

[CaledonianCraig]

Not sure Line breaker. Beefy was adamant it carried but I am not so sure. However, the umpires got involved when there was no need. Warner asked Butler if it carried and when he said it did Warner walked. That should have been the matter closed.

[Pal Joey]

So were Healy and Bumble. Warner did the right thing by walking.

[KP_fan]

some of Boxing referees powers should be given to cricket match referee also...especially the right to call declare a knock out and prevent serious bodily or mental injuries...when he sees a one sided beating 

[CaledonianCraig]

Yup that series a couple of summers ago would have been stopped against India very early.

[Gerry SA]

Where the hell has Steven Finn gone?

Not even getting a game in the limited overs stuff is ridiculous. 

Bresnan's looking totally out of his depth...

[Carrotdude]

I saw the score before I saw the team. What on earth are we doing playing Buttler at 8? For starters drop Root who looks terrible at the moment and play Tredwell and bump everyone up one place, Finn for Rankin who doesn't offer a lot at all and then Broad for Bresnan when he's available as Bresnan looks a complete shadow of his former self, slow inaccurate and completely unthreatening.

Cook
Bell
Ballance
Morgan
Bopara
Buttler
Stokes
Bresnan
Jordan
Tredwell
Finn

Looks a lot more balanced to me, bat down to 8 (possibly 9 if you count Jordan although I think his batting is overrated by the Sky lot) and has 6 bowlers. Thought Jordan bowled well when I saw him, still can't believe he's playing for England after how terrible he was for Surrey for so long.

[kingraf]

I thought Root was dropped from the Test team due to attitude problems? Why's he back so soon - Does his attitude oscillate between the ODI's and Tests?

[GloriousEmpire]

Will England be white washed in the one day series too? When was the last time England lost every game on a tour?

[guildfordbat]

I saw the score before I saw the team. What on earth are we doing playing Buttler at 8? For starters drop Root who looks terrible at the moment and play Tredwell and bump everyone up one place, Finn for Rankin who doesn't offer a lot at all and then Broad for Bresnan when he's available as Bresnan looks a complete shadow of his former self, slow inaccurate and completely unthreatening.

Cook
Bell
Ballance
Morgan
Bopara
Buttler
Stokes
Bresnan
Jordan
Tredwell
Finn

Looks a lot more balanced to me, bat down to 8 (possibly 9 if you count Jordan although I think his batting is overrated by the Sky lot) and has 6 bowlers. Thought Jordan bowled well when I saw him, still can't believe he's playing for England after how terrible he was for Surrey for so long.

Just saw the final 20 overs or so.

Agree with Carrot about Jordan's bowling, past and present. If he has sorted out his no ball problems, that'll certainly benefit his career - that was a major hindrance during his time at Surrey.

Rankin loked hopelessly all at sea.

Root - 3 from 23. What's going on?

That's about it from me. New format, new teams but same result and never looked like being different from when I started watching.

[VTR]

jordan...I see is another foreign recruit  

Moved to England as a teenager when he was given a scholarship that allowed him to pursue his sporting interests. Hard to see why he wouldn't want to play for England.

[VTR]

Will England be white washed in the one day series too? When was the last time England lost every game on a tour?

Probably as this a very experimental lineup which looks more like an audition for the Test team than a serious attempt to win the series.

[Steffan]

Oh dear. Looks like the mighty England are getting their pommy butts whopped  

[GloriousEmpire]

Yes, starting to look like home track bullies aren't they?

I often wonder why it is that with so many resources at their disposal, British teams fail to dominate in any sport whatsoever, even the ones played primarily only in former British Colonies. There must be some reason why such vast resources are squandered so prolifically in so many sporting arenas.

[msp83]

So another thumping for England. Cook and Root continue to struggle, and the bowling was poor.
Finch continues to enjoy his 2nd coming, and a good comeback for Warner as ODI opener.
And oh, Jos Buttler batting at 8? No frontline spinner? No place for Steven Finn even after all this? Brilliant, absolutely brilliant!.

[KP_fan]

Yup that series a couple of summers ago would have been stopped against India very early.

yup if you go a little further back as 1930s the test status would be withdrawn from India.
no problemo you are allowed to go as far back in time to draw comfort as you want

[Duty281]

And what's the point of this series?

Both teams are resting players. I've got no idea what England were doing yesterday with selection.

The series won't be remembered for very long. It's not a warm-up for the World Cup - both teams will have those next year (and I'm sure they'll be some minnow bashing along the way.)

And then there's the act that very few will actually care about the World Cup because it will obviously be too long, too drawn-out and too bloated.

Take Alastair Cook back to England's green and pleasant land, and those dark satanic mills. He needs a rest.

[CaledonianCraig]

On what grounds does Root get into the side? He is quite clearly out of form and we have seen in the test matches that he scores painfully slowly just now (today 3 runs from 23 balls). If he isn't dropped for the next ODI I will be stunned. Get Treadwell in for Root and re-arrange the batting order as Morgan and Buttler are batting far too late.

[KP_fan]

And what's the point of this series?

.

ODI series should be played before the test as India did in SA and will do in NZ......

In the absence of quality practice games...the ODIs these days are long enough to allow competitive match practice.

NOW and especially in context of the way Eng stand now....this is meaningless especially for people like Cook and Bell and Broad.

[Duty281]

And what's the point of this series?

.

ODI series should be played before the test as India did in SA and will do in NZ......

In the absence of quality practice games...the ODIs these days are long enough to allow competitive match practice.

NOW and especially in context of the way Eng stand now....this is meaningless especially for people like Cook and Bell and Broad.

Certainly should, yes. At least the administrators have got it the right way round for the England-Sri Lanka series this summer, although, frustratingly, the same logic won't apply to England-India as well.

[KP_fan]

And what's the point of this series?

.

ODI series should be played before the test as India did in SA and will do in NZ......

In the absence of quality practice games...the ODIs these days are long enough to allow competitive match practice.

NOW and especially in context of the way Eng stand now....this is meaningless especially for people like Cook and Bell and Broad.

Certainly should, yes. At least the administrators have got it the right way round for the England-Sri Lanka series this summer, although, frustratingly, the same logic won't apply to England-India as well.

well it's more frustrating for India...they are generally the ones needing practise......more than the English in their own conditions.
However not much to worry for India.......they will use the first test match as real 5 day practise game

[msp83]

England's Ireland import Boyd Rankin, who was struck twice by cramps in his debut test, had another bout of the same in the first ODI as well. Rankin had put it down to nerves, but his overall fitness doesn't come across as international class.
Perhaps Kevin Pietersen has something to do with it?

[Duty281]

England's Ireland import Boyd Rankin, who was struck twice by cramps in his debut test, had another bout of the same in the first ODI as well. Rankin had put it down to nerves, but his overall fitness doesn't come across as international class.
Perhaps Kevin Pietersen has something to do with it?

Since he shouldn't even be playing for England, let's just call it karma.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

On what grounds does Root get into the side? He is quite clearly out of form and we have seen in the test matches that he scores painfully slowly just now (today 3 runs from 23 balls). If he isn't dropped for the next ODI I will be stunned. Get Treadwell in for Root and re-arrange the batting order as Morgan and Buttler are batting far too late.

I can't say I'd disagree Craig, root's looked like a fish out of water against Australia for the most of last summer and this winter.

No way Buttler should be coming in at 8. That's a travesty

[KP_fan]

Perhaps Kevin Pietersen has something to do with it?

you are getting good at sarcasm msp

[Liam]

I honestly think England's team selection on this tour has almost been as bad as their performances. Honestly that team was just ridiculous. Root? Buttler at 8? No Finn but Rankin who doesn't look threatening in the slightest, whilst also sercuming to cramp AGAIN! Bresnan who should be nowhere near international cricket for me, 78mph trotting in is absolutely disgraceful i'm sorry. Simple changes for me for the next ODI:

-Tredwell/Briggs for Root so we have a spinner
-Finn for Rankin
-Everyone moves up one

[GloriousEmpire]

And what's the point of this series?

.

ODI series should be played before the test as India did in SA and will do in NZ......

In the absence of quality practice games...the ODIs these days are long enough to allow competitive match practice.

NOW and especially in context of the way Eng stand now....this is meaningless especially for people like Cook and Bell and Broad.

1. ODI is not practise for a test
2. All due respect they had five whole tests to practise and just got worse

[JDizzle]

Buttler at 8 isn't that ridiculous. Stokes came in in the 38th over and perhaps they didn't want Buttler coming in that early with that many wickets down, if he gets out early then Stokes has no license to have a swing. Buttler was down to come in earlier and if the top order had batted better he could have done.

[Guest]

Finch was incredible with the bat today! What suprised me with his knock was how responsible it was and the lack of sixes, which usually comes with his batting!

[KP_fan]

to me Finch, and Maxwel from ODIs and Doolan from their FC system are the ones who are pressing Bailey and Watson.
Given that Faulkner is already the 12th man who could walk in for watson

[Guest]

Finch averages 28 in f/c cricket..... he ain't playing test cricket any time soon..

[chrisss]

Buttler at 8 isn't that ridiculous. Stokes came in in the 38th over and perhaps they didn't want Buttler coming in that early with that many wickets down, if he gets out early then Stokes has no license to have a swing. Buttler was down to come in earlier and if the top order had batted better he could have done.

We need to be giving Buttler more time at the crease, not less. He's not just a finisher, he can score hundreds as well. In the home ODI series, in the match where he won England the game he came in in the 34th over and for me that's around the time he should be coming in.

[msp83]

Buttler/Stokes at 8 is negating the possibilities that Stokes the proper all-rounder offers. With Stokes in there, England can have a proper 5 man attack with a frontline spinner, and Steven Finn can also come in. If anyone has had a bit of a rough day, then Bopara and Root can back them up.

[Mike Selig]

I should first say I didn't watch any of the game, so am hardly qualified to comment on what actually happened, but some thoughts purely on reading the scorecard.

I agree with the consensus that England's side looks a bowler light and a batsman heavy on paper. I think Buttler and Stokes have shown in this series (Stokes) and the previous one (Buttler) that they are better than just smackers and can easily bat 7 and 8. Particularly if you have Jordan who can also bat. I think however the selection can be explained by the fact that England wanted to have a look at Ballance whilst giving Root a chance to redeem himself. It seems obvious enough to me that if you drop a batsman, one of those two has to go.

I see a lot of criticism of Root's innings. I am not going to jump on him without watching, and would note that other players start their innings very slowly in ODIs (Gayle comes to mind, even in T20s, as does Finch to a lesser extent). If you hit 3 boundaries, 3 off 23 suddenly becomes 15 off 30 which is not so bad. It looks poor on paper granted, but how good was the bowling, what was his mindset, how fluently was Bell playing at the other end, etc.

I am TBH more concerned about Ballance's strike-rate, which is probably around 10 runs short (it is less the slow start, which is fine as Morgan was going well, than failing to really kick on once he'd reached 60 or 70). However it is only his 2nd ODI I think, so I am willing to cut him some slack.

As for other selections, in light of how the Aussies have battered spinners all over the place recently, not picking a specialist spinner is IMO understandable, although I am always loathe to go into a match without one. Picking Rankin is normal, as he was England's best bowler in the home series; whilst I realise he had a poor test, that shouldn't all undo his previous work. Picking Chris Jordan was a good move to have a look at him. Overall it was a pretty experimental England side and as such I'm not sure the criticisms are all that fair or proportionate - after all we were calling for players to be tried and combinations tested in the ODIs weren't we? It seems therefore unfair to pile more criticism on the selectors for experimenting a bit...

The one which remains a mystery to me is Bresnan. I think he brings quite a bit to the test side and have often defended his selection there, but his ODI record is frankly very poor, yet he still gets picked. His natural length is hittable, and he doesn't really have enough variation at the death. Yet last summer he gets in ahead of Steven Finn (after Finn had led the attack for the last year in ODIs)... It does to me seem very strange, unless it is something to do with playing him into form for tests.

As for Finn, he must be bowling very poorly in the nets if he still can't get a game. To echo a thought of msp's though, no doubt it is also all Flower's fault...

I should comment a bit on Australia I guess but there is not much to comment on. It is a much more balanced and settled side, and they have a more aggressive gameplan and the players to deliver it. I know Finch's first class record is shocking (it is not, however that much worse than Bailey's), but I wouldn't rule too strongly against him making a case for selection for the SA trip.

I think we'll see Doolan given some gametime, and some of the young quicks as well (I think Pattinson is fit again).

[alfie]

I did watch the match ; and am not too bothered about the result...which might have been a lot closer if Emgland had managed to grab a couple of early chances. It was indeed an experimental lineup . And it surely makes sense to try a few players with an eye to a World Cup not too far away on these same pitches. England cannot play their A team even if they wanted , for the very sound reason that some of those players are in desperate need of a decent rest !
Would still be nice to win something , of course...

Mike queries the presence of Bresnan : I suspect his selection owed something to a desire for some experience in the bowling group .Has to be said he wasn't very effective ; though neither were Rankin (again) or Stokes , who was a bit all over the place. In fairness to Bresnan , his batting was instrumental in getting England up to the reasonably competitive 269 - though with Buttler at eight it really shouldn't have been needed !
Ballance impressed me as a possible Trott-substitute at three. Played very sensibly , though he overreached in the end , offering the same fielder two almost identical chances in three balls ! His fielding bothers me a bit though ; he has to do a lot of work in that area if he is to be an serious ODI candidate.
Jordan was the big plus for me. Figures can lie : he was worth a lot better than the scorebook says , very unlucky. And his continued effort was impressive. Want to see more of him.

I think they will play a spinner next up. Probably in place of Root , who looks very out of sorts at the moment. If he were to play , it would have to be at five or six , instead of Bopara , I think. And I wouldn't be doing that right now.
God knows what Finn is doing ! Couldn't be worse than Rankin though ; he has looked a shadow of the bowler we saw back in England.

[alfie]

Australia are talking about some resting/rotation. Sensible. They have a good group , but need to enlarge it a bit to allow for the inevitable injuries/ form loss that can happen over a year. Not expecting too many changes , but you'd think Watson may rest at some point , as well as perhaps Haddin.

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