1st ODI thread, Melbourne

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 12 Jan 2014, 2:52 am

First topic message reminder :

"@ECB_cricket: Eng: Cook (c), Bell, Root, Ballance, Morgan, Bopara, Buttler, Stokes, Bresnan, Jordan, Rankin #ausveng"

That's our team. We gonna get done

Aus: DA Warner, AJ Finch, SR Watson, MJ Clarke*, GJ Bailey, GJ Maxwell, BJ Haddin†, JP Faulkner, NM Coulter-Nile, CJ McKay, XJ Doherty
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Post by Mike Selig on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 4:23 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Ok, that's your opinion. But easy target because he is 33?

Nothing to do with age. Just my opinion based on watching him play for England in ODIs and tests. Bell, Anderson, Swann are all in their 30s and better fielders at international level. As was Bailey.

jimbohammers wrote:I've seen him many times live and he has been brilliant in the field.

in county matches which kind of proves my point. I accept he has a reputation for being a brilliant fielder at county level; from what I've seen that translates into mediocre in internationals.

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 5:52 pm

Mike Selig wrote:
jimbohammers wrote:Ok, that's your opinion. But easy target because he is 33?

Nothing to do with age. Just my opinion based on watching him play for England in ODIs and tests. Bell, Anderson, Swann are all in their 30s and better fielders at international level. As was Bailey.

jimbohammers wrote:I've seen him many times live and he has been brilliant in the field.

in county matches which kind of proves my point. I accept he has a reputation for being a brilliant fielder at county level; from what I've seen that translates into mediocre in internationals.[/quote]

Mike - leaving aside Carberry himself, I'm not convinced your conclusion is correct.

When England need a twelfth man for home Tests, they seem more than happy to pluck one of the best fielders from the county game rather than rely on the player(s) omitted from the Test squad. Going back to the 2005 Ashes series, Gary Pratt is probably the best known example although since then there have been many others whose fielding I would rate highly; just of those with Surrey connections who have fielded as substitutes in Tests - Stewart Waters, Rory Burns and Jason Roy (whom I would certainly class as a brilliant fielder, both close to the wicket and on the boundary).

Unless the fielding coaching is much better at international level than county level (and it may be), I don't really see why there should be such a difference. Whilst fielding has (rightly imo) taken on increasing importance for international selection, players are still essentially chosen on account of their batting or bowling. Isn't it that (batting and bowling) which really distinguishes the internationals from their county colleagues?

Oh, and one of the worst fielders I've seen at county level in the last couple of years ... Chris Tremlett, a view you shared at Test level after his only outing this series.

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Post by Mike Selig on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 6:44 pm

Sorry, should have been clearer, by "that" I was specifically referring to Carberry. I think there is a mental issue there of not making the step up comfortably which has translated to his fielding.

Although fielding is better at international level still, the real step up in fielding as far as I can tell is from club cricket to pro cricket; all about anticipation, positioning, throwing techniques etc. You are unlikely to get a pro contract nowadays unless you are at least a reasonable fielder (which translates for us into pretty bl00dy good).

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 16 Jan 2014, 8:37 am


Steven Finn will fly home from the tour of Australia after the England management conceded that his form and confidence have deserted him to such an extent that he is now not a viable selection option.

Ashley Giles, the limited-overs coach, believes he now needs a complete break from cricket for a period of time before trying to get his career back on track.


Finn,
Root
Trott
Rankin
young..talented........but destroyed.....
Who will take the responsibility ?
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Post by VTR on Thu 16 Jan 2014, 9:19 am

KP_fan wrote:
Steven Finn will fly home from the tour of Australia after the England management conceded that his form and confidence have deserted him to such an extent that he is now not a viable selection option.

Ashley Giles, the limited-overs coach, believes he now needs a complete break from cricket for a period of time before trying to get his career back on track.


Finn,
Root
Trott
Rankin
young..talented........but destroyed.....
Who will take the responsibility ?

Who is to say Root and Finn are destroyed. Was Anderson permanently destroyed after SA away in 2004/5 - No. Was Bell permanently destroyed after Ashes 2005 and Windies 2009 - No.

Trott and Rankin aren't young, even if Trott never played again he will be remembered as the best England number 3 for a generation and it is crass (as usaul from you) to suggest the management were responsible for his mental health problems.

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Post by KP_fan on Fri 17 Jan 2014, 4:18 pm

VTR wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Steven Finn will fly home from the tour of Australia after the England management conceded that his form and confidence have deserted him to such an extent that he is now not a viable selection option.

Ashley Giles, the limited-overs coach, believes he now needs a complete break from cricket for a period of time before trying to get his career back on track.


Finn,
Root
Trott
Rankin
young..talented........but destroyed.....
Who will take the responsibility ?

Who is to say Root and Finn are destroyed. Was Anderson permanently destroyed after SA away in 2004/5 - No. Was Bell permanently destroyed after Ashes 2005 and Windies 2009 - No.

Trott and Rankin aren't young, even if Trott never played again he will be remembered as the best England number 3 for a generation and it is crass (as usaul from you) to suggest the management were responsible for his mental health problems.


who is responsible...for the consequence faced by the team because of Trott.
who is responsible for driving Trott past the edge when his conditions was known.
Blame has to be squarely on management.....on both those counts
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