Aus in SA: Bailey dropped

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 20 Jan 2014, 2:30 am

First topic message reminder :

Test squad Michael Clarke (capt), Brad Haddin (vice-capt), Jackson Bird, Alex Doolan, James Faulkner, Ryan Harris, Mitchell Johnson, Shaun Marsh, Nathan Lyon, James Pattinson, Chris Rogers, Peter Siddle, Steven Smith, David Warner, Shane Watson.

and expectedly Marsh is back......Doolan is in.

I am surprised to see Jackson Bird...he looked quite ordinary in England.
there must be faster bowlers in Aus

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Post by msp83 on Thu 30 Jan 2014, 12:49 pm

Now Shaun Marsh gets ruled out of the South African tour. Phil Hughes named as replacement.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Jan 2014, 1:11 pm

msp83 wrote:Now Shaun Marsh gets ruled out of the South African tour. Phil Hughes named as replacement.

Marsh is a good guy who I have liked each time I see him......this is a loss now........If I was Aussie selector I would look to bat Aaron Finch at No. 3

he can take the game away in two hours of batting...and is in great form
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Post by msp83 on Thu 30 Jan 2014, 1:14 pm

Not sure about Finch as a test player. But considering the replacement they've gone for, I would say Finch wouldn't have been a bad option either.
Hope Hughes has done some meaningful work on that half baked technique of his

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Post by msp83 on Thu 30 Jan 2014, 1:15 pm

Doolan should get the first chance instead of Hughes at 3. Watson should be moved down to 6.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Jan 2014, 1:57 pm

msp83 wrote:   Not sure about Finch as a test player. But considering the replacement they've gone for, I would say Finch wouldn't have been a bad option either.
Hope Hughes has done some meaningful work on that  half baked technique of his

by being too much on this form you have been conditioned by the English mentality  Very Happy 

if Sehwag, GilChrist and Warner were English........they would not have played test cricket under the same logic " Not sure that they are test players"

generally a guy who is comfortable against international quality fast and spin bowlers in one form / displays temperament under pressure in one form....will do well in any form....this is generally applicable...and actually Jadeja is the most recent case in point.

England  would do well to give a break in tests to the likes of Moragn, Hales, Butler Wright.....to benefit from the principle in Italics...but for that they need an exciting / aggressive risk taker like Imran, ganguly, warne like guy at the head calling shots.....
and not Flower type dead defensive man.....under whose regime Morgan was included...but told to "go get-set-see-off-build-the-inning"...and hence did not succeed.
Once you pick these guys they've gotta be told to play like Sehwag did as an opener or Gilchrist as a middle order......or like warner plays now...natural game
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Post by msp83 on Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:12 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:   Not sure about Finch as a test player. But considering the replacement they've gone for, I would say Finch wouldn't have been a bad option either.
Hope Hughes has done some meaningful work on that  half baked technique of his

by being too much on this form you have been conditioned by the English mentality  Very Happy 

if Sehwag, GilChrist and Warner were English........they would not have played test cricket under the same logic " Not sure that they are players"

generally a guy who is comfortable against international quality fast and spin bowlers in one form / displays temperament under pressure in one form....will do well in any form....this is generally applicable...and actually Jadeja is the most recent case in point.

England  would do well to give a break in tests to the likes of Moragn, Hales, Butler Wright.....to beenfit from the principle in Italics...but for that they need an exciting / aggressive risk taker like Imran, ganguly, warne like guy at the head calling shots.....
and not Flower type dead defensive man
KPF, its not about Finch being categorized into a limited overs player. The likes of Sehwag, Gilchrist and Warner has creditable FC record as well. Test cricket can be played in a very exciting manner for sure and the players mentioned bring a very aggressive mode of batting to test cricket. Nothing wrong in that, nothing at all.
But Finch has a pretty poor FC record and that is a concern. For Every Sehwag and Warner, there is a Yuvraj, a Bevan, an Ajay Jadeja.......

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 30 Jan 2014, 3:23 pm

msp wrote:KPF, its not about Finch being categorized into a limited overs player. The likes of Sehwag, Gilchrist and Warner has creditable FC record as well. Test cricket can be played in a very exciting manner for sure and the players mentioned bring a very aggressive mode of batting to test cricket. Nothing wrong in that, nothing at all.
But Finch has a pretty poor FC record and that is a concern. For Every Sehwag and Warner, there is a Yuvraj, a Bevan, an Ajay Jadeja.......

Yes right....but whether he is a Ajay Jadeja or a Sehwag....can't be figured without giving them a break.
b.t.w Sehwag's FC record wasn't that great either......nor is Ravindra Jadeja's bowling record ( the dept where he has had success in tests)

The countries that have benefitted from such X-factor impact players are India, Aus , Pak primarily....and to some extent SL in the times of ranatunga especially. Eng just doesn't touch them.
look at Pakistan churning out these 17 to 19 year old pace bowlers one after the other....and Eng refuses to touch and try the reportedly express pacers like Left arm guy they havee and Meaker
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Post by ShankyCricket on Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:59 pm

Not too sure about Finch in tests but is it even possible to be worse than Hughes or Khawaja?

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Post by msp83 on Sat 08 Feb 2014, 1:39 pm

Shane Watson is ruled out of the first test with injury.
What does that mean for the playing 11? Will both Doolan and Hughes get to play? Or will they go for Henriques? With Harris in their, going in with a 4 man attack might give them some thought. Perhaps they'll have Haddin at 6 and Henriques batting at 7, because by no way is Henriques a number 6 batsman.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-australia-2013-14/content/current/story/717435.html

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Post by msp83 on Sat 08 Feb 2014, 1:46 pm

Some cricinfo reader comments suggest Australia should play Pattinson in place of Watson and use Johnson as an all-rounder at 7. If the all-rounder call is between Henriques and Johnson, I won't consider the latter as a bad option at all.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 08 Feb 2014, 2:22 pm

msp83 wrote:Shane Watson is ruled out of the first test with injury.
What does that mean for the playing 11? Will both Doolan and Hughes get to play? Or will they go for Henriques? With Harris in their, going in with a 4 man attack might give them some thought. Perhaps they'll have Haddin at 6 and Henriques batting at 7, because by no way is Henriques a number 6 batsman.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-australia-2013-14/content/current/story/717435.html

they will go with Henriques......who is much underrated and very competent batsman on the evidence of what I saw of him in India.
He will bat at No.6 and rightly so I believe.

and he will more or less replace Watson's 125-135 kph seam bowling.
Faulkner is very unlucky else this was a great opportunity for him to impress in tests

Hughes is lucky to be even in 15
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Post by Guest on Sat 08 Feb 2014, 4:30 pm

Johnson isn't an all-rounder, he's a bowler who can bat, he's no where near consistent enough to be an all-rounder...

Henriques at 7 would be the better option.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 6:17 pm

Olly wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:
Olly wrote:
Linebreaker wrote:It works both ways though Olly.

It does, but will the Aussie bowlers be able to get as up for this series (Johnson mainly)/be fit enough (in the case of Harris and Watson)

I'm not so sure

Why not? It's been done many times before there.

Just a gut feeling/prediction LB  thumbsup 

Well Watson's already injured. Batting wise it may not be a bad thing (don't particularly rate him), but its a blow to the bowling (very tidy bowler) and the balance of the side.

Still one mans loss is another's opportunity
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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 7:49 pm

Really hope Phil Hughes plays and is embarassed again. Sick of Aus fans on twitter constantly moaning how unlucky he is.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 8:44 pm

Marsh is back ...so he will play at No.3...and I have a feeling.....make a return very difficult for Watson
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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 8:55 pm

Phillip Hughes has a fine record in South Africa. Of the 10 times he's passed 50 in Test cricket, 4 of those occasions are on South African soil. 

But as KPF said, Shaun Marsh is ahead of Hughes. Based on what I have no clue. 

Australia recently picked George Bailey on ODI form and he was exposed. 

Marsh has hardly been pulling up trees in the Sheffield Shield, so he doesn't merit a Test starting berth. 

As for Doolan, his FC average is worst than Bailey's. Doolan hype comes over a 161* he scored against the Proteas on a flat dead pitch. He won't be getting any of those in the upcoming series.

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Post by Mike Selig on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 10:33 pm

Marsh, apart from one (admittedly horrific) series against India has mostly looked at home in test cricket.
Hughes, apart from a terrific debut series, has mostly looked out of his depth.

I was and still am a Hughes fan, but Marsh is IMO the better player.

I haven't seen much of Doolan, but he looks compact enough, although a bit lazy. Times it rather than hits it.

I suspect Marsh at 3 and Henriques at 6. I'm happy enough with the former, but concerned about the latter.

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Post by msp83 on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 5:35 am

Henriques at 6? He'll be batting 2 places too high. He showed a good temperament during the India series with the bat, but his range as a batsman is far too limited, particularly for Steyn and co. If they go in with Henriques, then I feel they should promote Haddin to 6 and bat Henriques at 7.

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Post by Biltong on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 6:33 am

I am disappointed that Quinton de Kock and Beuran Hendricks didn't get a call up to the Protea squad.

They are two youngsters that has been setting the domestic scene alight with brilliant knocks and spells.

I would much rather have De Kock play in place of Duminy and Hendricks in place of McLaren or Parnell.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 8:04 am

KP_fan wrote:

The countries that have benefitted from such X-factor impact players are India, Aus , Pak primarily....and to some extent SL in the times of ranatunga especially. Eng just doesn't touch them.
look at Pakistan churning out these 17 to 19 year old pace bowlers one after the other....and Eng refuses to touch and try the reportedly express pacers like Left arm guy they havee and Meaker

Whereas India "touch" their alleged express pace bowlers and find out they are Aaron.

Meaker isnt a genuine quick. And he has been tried in both limited over formats, poor returns in all 4 games.
The left armer? Mills? Hes playing for the Lions. He isnt that fast again and has a poor first class record.
Jamie Overton has also been playing for the Lions this summer and wouldve been on the winter tour were it not for injury. He was in the senior ODI squad in the summer.
A lot of hype about these guys based on not a lot of reality. They arent being ignored though, neither are Finn and Jordan. And before Finn they went through a desperate period of trying to replace Harmisson (and calling him back up).

Its a total untruth to suggest England dont want pace, infact many people were poopooing them picking Finn just because he had a bit of raw pace when they first did.

If any of the kids bowl well and show they have the physical capability to deal with test cricket they will get selected, otherwise why would England be investing so much time and effort in coaching and playing them in the second XI


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Post by KP_fan on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 9:45 am

msp83 wrote:Henriques at 6? He'll be batting 2 places too high. He showed a good temperament during the India series with the bat, but his range as a batsman is far too limited, particularly for Steyn and co. If they go in with Henriques, then I feel they should promote Haddin to 6 and bat Henriques at 7.

Marsh will bat at 3 now that he is fit and Doolan will be at 6...and I think that is good.

Henriques ain't as bad as you think though...
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Post by alfie on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:23 am

Not sure about this. They may pick Doolan at three ...or for all I know they may pick Phil Hughes !

Truth is the loss of Watson , combined with the need to replace Bailey , has rather upset the stable lineup they have had through the summer whatever they do. In the circumstances , I fancy they may see Henriques as a bit of a risk and therefore go with six pure
batsmen. But which , I am not prepared to guess.

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Post by msp83 on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 11:30 am

Between Hughes and Henriques, i'll go for Henriques any day!.

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