ind-v-nz...first test

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 02 Feb 2014, 6:59 am

First topic message reminder :

the tour practice game started and pandey ended up being the most potent and successful bowler.
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Post by Guest on Sun 09 Feb 2014, 2:11 pm

I expect Ashwin to come back in for Jadeja...Jadeja is shocking with the bat in the longer form of the game he really is...also he isn't a frontline spinner, i know he got a 6-for in SA, but that was a helpful wicket, and when there's nothing in it for him, he can't seem to tie up and end..

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 09 Feb 2014, 2:17 pm

CF wrote:I expect Ashwin to come back in for Jadeja...Jadeja is shocking with the bat in the longer form of the game he really is...also he isn't a frontline spinner, i know he got a 6-for in SA, but that was a helpful wicket, and when there's nothing in it for him, he can't seem to tie up and end..

Jadeja has three first class triple hundreds, he's no mug with the bat.

Ashwin is awful overseas, awful. He's what you just described Jadeja as but worse
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Post by msp83 on Sun 09 Feb 2014, 5:54 pm

Jadeja usually keeps things quiet even on tracks that do not offer him a lot. The New Zealand first innings was an exception really. You'll have footmarks on every track, and Jadeja is the best Indian spinner capable of utilizing such assistance from the track. Ashwin is a handy bat and a good bowler, but his overseas record is seriously inadequate and even on spinning tracks his economy rate is not as good as that of Jadeja. Jadeja's international batting is slowly evolving and this tour has been good for him from that point of view. He's capable of averaging 30-ish with the bat in test cricket. His fielding in this test was nothing short of electric. His catches to dismiss Brendon McCullum in the first innings and Kane Williamson in the 2nd were outstanding, and the way he accounted for McCullum in the 2nd innings with a brilliant run-out was top class.

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Post by Mike Selig on Sun 09 Feb 2014, 6:26 pm

I think Jadeja has earned the right to play for a few test matches.
Looked India's best spinner in South Africa comfortably, and bowled very well at home vs Aus and Eng.
Batting not quite there yet, but as a number 8 he's clearly ok.
As msp says his fielding is in a different galaxy's to Ashwin's (which ranges from average to dreadful).

I only watched the highlights of this game, so can't comment in too much detail.
I have to say I was impressed by Rahane's lack of reaction after getting what can only be described as a shocker. Just looked up, looked disappointed and walked off. Less impressed with Ishant Sharma and Murali Vijay who actually hit theirs (although I accept for thin nicks you don't necessarily feel it).

New Zealand's pace attack is pretty good (they've also got Bracewell in support) and Williamson seems to have at last gained some consistency to go with his obvious plus points. Under the leadership of McCullum and dare I say it some good work from the head coach (despite being widely vilified upon arrival, it seems he has actually made the correct calls?) they have really come on. I wouldn't be completely shocked to see them have a good run in the next WC or in the T20.

What they are missing is a spinner. Sodhi looks fairly average. As well as the point picked up by KPF his arm is too high for a classic leg-spinner as he falls over; he's not going to be a big turner with his action, he doesn't seem to get kick off the pitch, and I haven't seen a wrong-un which will trouble top players.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 09 Feb 2014, 7:17 pm

Mike Selig wrote:I think Jadeja has earned the right to play for a few test matches.
Looked India's best spinner in South Africa comfortably, and bowled very well at home vs Aus and Eng.
Batting not quite there yet, but as a number 8 he's clearly ok.
As msp says his fielding is in a different galaxy's to Ashwin's (which ranges from average to dreadful).

I only watched the highlights of this game, so can't comment in too much detail.
I have to say I was impressed by Rahane's lack of reaction after getting what can only be described as a shocker. Just looked up, looked disappointed and walked off. Less impressed with Ishant Sharma and Murali Vijay who actually hit theirs (although I accept for thin nicks you don't necessarily feel it).

New Zealand's pace attack is pretty good (they've also got Bracewell in support) and Williamson seems to have at last gained some consistency to go with his obvious plus points. Under the leadership of McCullum and dare I say it some good work from the head coach (despite being widely vilified upon arrival, it seems he has actually made the correct calls?) they have really come on. I wouldn't be completely shocked to see them have a good run in the next WC or in the T20.

What they are missing is a spinner. Sodhi looks fairly average. As well as the point picked up by KPF his arm is too high for a classic leg-spinner as he falls over; he's not going to be a big turner with his action, he doesn't seem to get kick off the pitch, and I haven't seen a wrong-un which will trouble top players.
Forget Ashwin, Jadeja is the best fielder in that entire India squad. Rahane has taken some pretty good catches and scored a few direct hits, Kohli is pretty sharp as well. But Jadeja is a touch above all of them in the fielding department. At the moment, he is a better bowling option than Ashwin is in conditions that do not offer too much to the spinners.
New Zealand of course has a quality seam bowling unit. They do have Bracewell, but his head doesn't seem to be in the right place unfortunately. But they have McClenaghan, Milne and Henry in the reserves, so there is some depth in the seam bowling department.
New Zealand have had a good summer so far, a decent series against the West Indies and a pretty good one against India so far. One man who deserve a lot of credit for the turn around is the unceremoniously sacked former skipper Ross Taylor. Taylor has been in the form of his life in this summer, and his form has been a major factor in helping New Zealand overcome the major disappointments of a drawn test series and a blanked out ODI series in Bangladesh. Interestingly, when faced with a very difficult situation, Taylor went to the likes of Martin Crowe and other earlier mentors of his to find his way back.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 9:18 am

Well Dhoni is learning very fast.........from a completely clueless captain in overseas conditons........he has learnt and his new boys have shown progress....is the glass half full.


the glass half empty......we still pulled a near historic defeat setting 450 runs....and lost to the bottom ranked team......being thrashed like a club bowling side in first inning.

the question is...are we willing to invest in Dhoni as a test captain for a bit longer....hoping he will learn enough to start nailing these close defeats into wins ????

It's a moot question...his maai-baap Srinivasan at the helm selectors may not even be allowed to ponder over that question
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:44 pm

Bracewell broke his foot and rydr hurt his arm in "friendly fire"

Unbelievable this guy Ryder is....instead of being thankful & grateful ( to god) at being alive...he is again caught in bar brawls.

http://www.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/ryder-bracewell-axed-from-2nd-test-after-bar-brawl/article5672559.ece

Facing investigation for a scuffle at an Auckland bar, New Zealand’s temperamental batsman Jesse Ryder and medium-pacer Doug Bracewell will not be considered for the second cricket Test against India starting here on February 14.

The two players got injured after a physical altercation with each other at an Auckland bar before the first Test against India, which the home team won by 40 runs on Sunday.

Both have reportedly admitted to being at the scene of incident.

Ryder, who has a history of alcohol-related misdemeanours, and Bracewell are currently being investigated for the brawl.

“We’ll be naming our second Test side tomorrow or maybe later on today and neither Jesse Ryder nor Doug Bracewell will be available for selection,” New Zealand coach Mike Hesson said.

Bracewell suffered a broken foot, while Ryder also reportedly hurt his hand during the scuffle, the reasons for which are not yet known.

Neither of them was part of the first Test’s playing XI but were there as cover for any possible injury breakdowns.

“There’s an investigation taking place and we’ll let that run its course before making any bold statements about that sort of thing. Once we get the full information and facts, we’ll be in a far better position to make a statement. It’s important we don’t jump to conclusions without getting the full facts,” Hesson said.

“We need to make sure all our players prepare themselves accordingly for Test cricket and at the moment we don’t have confidence that that’s the case,” he added.

Hesson said the two players have his trust but he would wait for an enquiry to establish the exact sequence of events that night.

“We have faith in our players that they make good decisions around their preparation. We’re dealing with grown men so if a player was to have a beer with their meal before a game we don’t have an issue with that at all.

“These are grown men who can make decisions. There’s a bit difference between that and what occurred the night before the Test,” he said.

This is not the first time that Ryder and Bracewell find themselves at the centre of a controversy like this. In 2012, both were axed from the ODI team for breaching the team’s code of conduct.

Ryder, in fact, has a very chequered past, having taken a break from international cricket before coming back last year.

The comeback didn’t go too well as he battled life-threatening injuries after another drunken brawl outside a bar.

In August last year, Ryder was slapped with a retrospective six-month ban for failing a routine drug test in domestic cricket.

Keywords: Jesse Ryder, New Zealand Test squad, India tour to New Zealand, India-New Zealand Test
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 3:22 pm

If Dhoni went, who is the senior pro to take over as captain? Ishant?


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 3:24 pm

Bracewell and Ryder are both plebs of the highest order
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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 7:34 pm

Really pleased for Dhawan. He's a guy I've always wanted to see succeed (a nice, fun loving guy and an attractive batsman to watch) but must admit I had serious apprehensions over his test match ability after his recent struggles. His technique is not perfect but he has shown the willingness to guts it out. Hopefully, he'll continue to bat with the same discipline even now that the pressure on his spot has eased up. Hopefully, this will indeed be a turning point and not just a flash in the pan.

As an aside, MSD apologists must be running out of excuses now. 2 fifties in his last 28 test innings abroad and lost 10 out of the last 11 away tests as captain. If we get whitewashed in NZ with him failing with the bat again, how do you justify his place in the Test side?

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 7:41 pm

CF wrote:I expect Ashwin to come back in for Jadeja...Jadeja is shocking with the bat in the longer form of the game he really is...also he isn't a frontline spinner, i know he got a 6-for in SA, but that was a helpful wicket, and when there's nothing in it for him, he can't seem to tie up and end..
Even by your standards, thats an idiotic comment.
On what basis is he not a frontline spinner? He just took a 6 fer in SA. Ashwin averages over 70 overseas and has 9 wickets in 4 away tests for f*ck's sake.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 7:45 pm

Ashwin is one of India's worst ever spinners outside the subcontinent.

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 8:56 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:If Dhoni went, who is the senior pro to take over as captain? Ishant?

Surely would have to be Kohli. Former U19 World Cup winner captain. IPL franchise captain. Captained India's ODI side in the past.

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 10 Feb 2014, 8:57 pm

India will be happy to know Ryder is unavailable for the second Test. Apart from the fact Rutherford and Fulton are crap - Ryder has a fantastic record against them.

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Post by msp83 on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 4:19 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:Really pleased for Dhawan. He's a guy I've always wanted to see succeed (a nice, fun loving guy and an attractive batsman to watch) but must admit I had serious apprehensions over his test match ability after his recent struggles. His technique is not perfect but he has shown the willingness to guts it out. Hopefully, he'll continue to bat with the same discipline even now that the pressure on his spot has eased up. Hopefully, this will indeed be a turning point and not just a flash in the pan.

As an aside, MSD apologists must be running out of excuses now. 2 fifties in his last 28 test innings abroad and lost 10 out of the last 11 away tests as captain. If we get whitewashed in NZ with him failing with the bat again, how do you justify his place in the Test side?
Shanky, I haven't gone and checked the stats, but are you sure about the Dhoni stats? I remember he scored 2 or 3 half-centuries in England and another one in Australia. And he also scored a 90 in South Africa. Can't remember whether he had done anything of note with the bat in the West Indies.
No other wicketkeeper batsman is good enough to challenge Dhoni's place, so his lack of a score is becoming even more concerning. Karthik can't keep or bat, Parthiv can't keep. Ojha isn't great in either department. Saha is a better keeper and a fighter with the bat, but not sure about his batting abilities at the highest level. Young Sanju Samson is not even interested in keeping in the long format and Kerala had in fact played him only as a batsman in the Ranji Trophy.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 8:47 pm

He didn't score a fifty in Aus or WI or the recent SA tour. Since the 90 odd at Centurion, he has 2 fifties (both in the same Test, vs Eng at Edgbaston when he was basically just slogging with the tail) in 28 innings outside the subcontinent.

3 innings in SA in 2010/11 after that 90 at Centurion.
5 innings in WI in 2011
8 innings in Eng in 2011
6 innings in Aus in 2011/12
4 innings in SA in 2013/14
and so far 2 innings in NZ in 2013/14.

That comes around to 28 innings and he has only 2 fifties. I reiterate, both came in the same Test when he was merely slogging with the tail.

Saha is a better keeper and is known to be a "backs to the wall" player at domestic level. Whether he can handle int'l bowling is something we'll find out only after he's given a proper opportunity. He dint disgrace himself when he stood in for MSD against a quality attack at Adelaide despite very little match practice in the lead-up.

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