KP - England career over

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 04 Feb 2014, 5:44 pm

First topic message reminder :

"@bbctms: Reports suggesting Kevin Pietersen will NOT be selected for West Indies tour and World T20. Expecting ECB statement shortly #bbccricket

http://www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/statement-kevin-pietersen

As that statement underlines, his career with England is done.

Discuss away, I'm sure this will be a hot topic...


Last edited by Olly on Tue 04 Feb 2014, 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:56 am

Its much easier to tolerate characters like KP when the teams winning and hes piling up runs.

When we're losing, and hes throwing his wicket away with brainless shots, its a different story
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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:11 am

Piers Morgan does seem to be KP's mouthpiece. Too much at times with some of the stuff that KP leaks to him. Anyone would think he once played for England Very Happy 

IPL auctions this Tueday, will KP be that £1,000,000 asset? Probably way more now for the circus he will bring to his new team. I predict KKK.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:40 am

well as he will play from the start- yes he will be worth bundles

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Post by andyi on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:44 pm

skyeman wrote:Piers Morgan does seem to be KP's Ringpiece. Too much at times with some of the stuff that KP leaks to him. Anyone would think he once played for England Very Happy 

IPL auctions this Tueday, will KP be that £1,000,000 asset? Probably way more now for the circus he will bring to his new team. I predict KKK.

Corrected  Very Happy 

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:54 pm

andyi wrote:
skyeman wrote:Piers Morgan does seem to be KP's Ringpiece. Too much at times with some of the stuff that KP leaks to him. Anyone would think he once played for England Very Happy 

IPL auctions this Tueday, will KP be that £1,000,000 asset? Probably way more now for the circus he will bring to his new team. I predict KKK.

Corrected  Very Happy 


PMSL Does seem that way.

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Post by Rowley on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:04 pm

The ironic thing is Morgan, in leaping to KP’s defence is doing him more harm than good. One of the major criticisms or rumours that swirl around about Pietersen is he is not a team man and does not respect the team ethic the management are keen to engender. In revealing arguments that occurred in team meetings and the dressing room Morgan does seem to create the impression that the age old adage “What happens in the dressing room, stays in the dressing room” is not one KP pays too much attention to.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:21 pm

Rowley wrote:The ironic thing is Morgan, in leaping to KP’s defence is doing him more harm than good. One of the major criticisms or rumours that swirl around about Pietersen is he is not a team man and does not respect the team ethic the management are keen to engender. In revealing arguments that occurred in team meetings and the dressing room Morgan does seem to create the impression that the age old adage “What happens in the dressing room, stays in the dressing room” is not one KP pays too much attention to.


 thumbsup 

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:25 pm

Exactly Rowley. That is exactly why I dont want the ECB or players to say anything in regards to this.

We all know what the problem was. Its time for them to turn the tide and the only way they will do this is to keep the team united and stop the gossip and running to the press.


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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:39 pm

Actually we all do not know the problem as such. Players including Graeme Swann, who's now retired and free to speak his mind, are suggesting that Pietersen's attitude during the tour was fine.
Flower has gone and taken Pietersen with him, and Matthew Prior and Alastair Nathan Cook have stabbed Pietersen in the back and made him the scapegoat, and eventually, it was all down to the 'headmaster' style coaching that has brought it all about, suggests cricinfo.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/716851.html

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:44 pm

The problem is a split camp.

end of story- KP has been part of the problem for ages.. Swann etc are not going to blame a single player or tell us what really is happening, what you heard from swann means nothing..

Not one person has made KP a scapegoat. Not one.

Its just time to get a different atmosphere in the england set up. and its cooks team..

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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:47 pm

They call a meeting without the knowledge of the coaching staff to get an honest view from players, KP speaks his mind, it is not what they want to hear, and though he didn't engineer the meeting, he became the victim as the others nicely backtracked. Excellent.......!

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:51 pm

No its not just that is it MSP

He has been in trouble on so many occasions its becoming ridiculous.

You seem to think you know what went on. You dont. But all we do know is that he has been a party to issue after issue.

The problem this time seems to be Flower v Pieterson..

We have got rid of both.

I am KP's biggest fan. Love the guy. But lets just move on.. Look to the future.



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Post by Rowley on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 2:59 pm

I do have to ask why, whenever KP gets in trouble, are so many people willing to absolve him of blame or suggest he is being made a scapegoat/victim. Let’s think about this sensibly, countless players, coaches and captains have come and gone during KP’s time but apparently each and everyone has bought into this vendetta and have had the same agenda against the player.

Even if one is willing to accept this rather fanciful conspiracy theory I have to ask to what end? Surely such a policy would only serve to marginalize, irritate and eventually drive out the team’s most gifted player. Surely that is a somewhat self defeating policy to adopt.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:16 pm

Someone to blame other than this at times perceived mercurial man, they don't want such genius to end.

But enough is enough, they should have ditched him in 2012, even if it meant not winning in India!

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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:17 pm

mystiroakey wrote:No its not just that is it MSP

He has been in trouble on so many occasions its becoming ridiculous.

You seem to think you know what went on. You dont. But all we do know is that he has been a party to issue after issue.

The problem this time seems to be Flower v Pieterson..

We have got rid of both.

I am KP's biggest fan. Love the guy. But lets just move on.. Look to the future.


So you think he was punished for his past mistakes? Then why take the trouble of 'Reintegrating' him? Past actions do not suggest that Graeme Swann is Pietersen's biggest supporter, but this has seemed to even surprise him.
And do you know what the 'issue' was this time around? Was there a real issue as such?

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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:19 pm

skyeman wrote:Someone to blame other than this at times perceived mercurial man, they don't want such genius to end.

But enough is enough, they should have ditched him in 2012, even if it meant not winning in India!
Yeah, perhaps....... It did help Indian cricket administrators to see the light though, but if KP hadn't been integrated, perhaps the Headmaster also would have gone earlier.......

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:25 pm

msp83 wrote:
skyeman wrote:Someone to blame other than this at times perceived mercurial man, they don't want such genius to end.

But enough is enough, they should have ditched him in 2012, even if it meant not winning in India!
Yeah, perhaps....... It did help Indian cricket administrators to see the light though, but if KP hadn't been integrated, perhaps the Headmaster also would have gone earlier.......


 Laugh Laugh 

If only KP had of had Tendulkas nature, he too could of been talked about by the likes of us in one hundred years time as one of the all time greats.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:28 pm

Would it have been easier if they just said look he already gave up t20, has hardly played Odis recently and has had a lower average than andrrson, and his test form is as bad as everyone else's.
He's got dodgy knees too and so we've decided to move on without him.

Rather than laying the stink around that its because he leaked private divisions within the squad to the media.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:30 pm

Interesting Australian take on the issue.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-ran-out-of-runs-to-outweigh-obnoxious-attitude-20140205-321sk.html

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:32 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Would it have been easier if they just said look he already gave up t20, has hardly played Odis recently and has had a lower average than andrrson, and his test form is as bad as everyone else's.
He's got dodgy knees too and so we've decided to move on without him.

Rather than laying the stink around that its because he leaked private divisions within the squad to the media.

Totally. Now they have dug a hole. I could have managed it better and i am NO manager.

I like what they did but not how they went about it.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:36 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Interesting Australian take on the issue.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-ran-out-of-runs-to-outweigh-obnoxious-attitude-20140205-321sk.html


A fading and obnoxious star. They would have been more ruthless for sure.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:40 pm

msp83 wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:No its not just that is it MSP

He has been in trouble on so many occasions its becoming ridiculous.

You seem to think you know what went on. You dont. But all we do know is that he has been a party to issue after issue.

The problem this time seems to be Flower v Pieterson..

We have got rid of both.

I am KP's biggest fan. Love the guy. But lets just move on.. Look to the future.


So you think he was punished for his past mistakes? Then why take the trouble of 'Reintegrating' him? Past actions do not suggest that Graeme Swann is Pietersen's biggest supporter, but this has seemed to even surprise him.
And do you know what the 'issue' was this time around? Was there a real issue as such?

Swann walked out mid tour. KP didnt..

At the moment I am not a massive fan of Swanny. He left because he couldn't take the grind of not being a big player affecting the game.

KP never quit. I respect KP more in all of this than Swanny.

KP is KP. A leopard doesn't change his spots.

Swanny felt embarrassed and walked.. So whatever he is saying I will take with a pinch of salt


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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:43 pm

Tbh, i would like most i feel, loved to have seen him at the T20 WC and beyond.

But KP has done this to England, world cricket, himself and us. IDIOT!


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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 4:07 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:Interesting Australian take on the issue.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-ran-out-of-runs-to-outweigh-obnoxious-attitude-20140205-321sk.html

Theyd never dare say that about Ponting though would they

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 4:08 pm

skyeman wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Would it have been easier if they just said look he already gave up t20, has hardly played Odis recently and has had a lower average than andrrson, and his test form is as bad as everyone else's.
He's got dodgy knees too and so we've decided to move on without him.

Rather than laying the stink around that its because he leaked private divisions within the squad to the media.

Totally.  Now they have dug a hole.  I could have managed it better and i am NO manager.

I like what they did but not how they went about it.

If anything theve been to open and too honest about their reasons.

Cook doesnt want him and they are sick of having to replace coaches.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 4:21 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Cook doesnt want him and they are sick of having to replace coaches.


That would have been more like it Yahoo 

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Post by banbrotam on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 6:50 pm

Nore Staat wrote:
banbrotam wrote: ... I'll be disappointed if the ECB cave in. They don't need to explain
But isn't that an argument that prejudiced people take ... we "don't need to explain" ... explaining is not for us ... we are above explaining ... we are right and you others that disagree with us are wrong ... we don't even need to listen to you because you are wrong and we are right ...


Quite honestly and there's plenty that agree, I really don't know what's to explain

As Rowley states is fine having a bit of a maverick in the the tea, when they average more than 50. Then of course they are a bit special and deserve that status

Unfortunately when they stop being special, then they need to stop being a maverick or at least give the impression (when given the opportunity) that they realise that they have to change

If they don't then an average of 33, will mean they are more hassle than an 'ordinary' joe who averages the same

It's happened zillions of times in sport - so anyone who wants an explanation is either mischief making (the press, because imagine the story) believes that every person in a position of authority has to explain every decision (i.e. the dropping of Root yielded more questions than this) or naive for thinking they deserve one

We're in a society now, where everyone's an expert and therefore think they are entitled to be 'in the know'.

Of course what we should do is just leave everything to a public vote, which would mean the death penalty would be back and I'd probably be deported back to Barbados  Wink 

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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 6:56 pm

Pietersen has not just been dropped, his career is effectively ended. There is a difference.......

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 6:58 pm

Or the other side of the coin people can be a bit naive in thinking the opposite. Look at what it has caused. Very angry responses, split opinons, angry worldwide fans.

Why not know? As you say, with todays multi media. It would make sense.

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Post by banbrotam on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 6:59 pm

msp83 wrote:Actually we all do not know the problem as such. Players including Graeme Swann, who's now retired and free to speak his mind, are suggesting that Pietersen's attitude during the tour was fine.
Flower has gone and taken Pietersen with him, and Matthew Prior and Alastair Nathan Cook have stabbed Pietersen in the back and made him the scapegoat, and eventually, it was all down to the 'headmaster' style coaching that has brought it all about, suggests cricinfo.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/716851.html


msp83. I've read your comments on these boards for a while now and you don't strike me as naive. Expecting anyone to say anything negative about KP in public is just that.

Also, you should be asking why Cook, who was the main reason KP was reinstated in the first place, now feels he can no longer supporting rather than coming out with emotional "stabbed in the back" nonsense

It's strange KP has had major issues with at least half a dozen people I can think of, but apparently is misunderstood or these lesser mortals should just tolerate it. Kindly note that Broad, arguable someone else with a bit too much confidence sometimes (incidentally I'm a big fan of his) never seems to get into the same messes

And if you want to believe any of the incendiary spin the media are putting on this, given their motives, i.e. tell us what happened and we'll stop making wild assumptions, then so be it

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Post by banbrotam on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:02 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Hoggy_Bear wrote:Interesting Australian take on the issue.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/kevin-pietersen-ran-out-of-runs-to-outweigh-obnoxious-attitude-20140205-321sk.html

Theyd never dare say that about Ponting though would they


Not a Pontin fan, but he was 100% a team player. Apart from his early days, which incidentally resulted in him being dropped (so much for the Aussies always wanting characters, no matter what Whistle ) he was exemplary for the Aussies.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:04 pm

Swann is not an England player any more. He didn't quite hold back on his views even when he and Pietersen shared a dressing room. There is no need now.

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Post by banbrotam on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:07 pm

msp83 wrote:Swann is not an England player any more. He didn't quite hold back on his views even when he and Pietersen shared a dressing room. There is no need now.


And then have all the hassle that would have landed on him from the likes of Morgan??

So what if Swan got on with him. KP expects to be treated differently, that is indisputable. In that case, he needs to average more than 33 in a year

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:09 pm

Vague responses are futile, leaves too much to the imagination. One way or the other, surely.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:14 pm

Ethics! Most know what they meant by that, but for some, they do not buy it.

Just come out with it. And not the bog standard building for the future claptrap.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:15 pm

Pietersen is not the first player to have serious differences with management and authorities. Andrew Flintoff had issues with Duncan Flecher, Chris Gayle had a massive fallout with Gibbson and Sammy, Ross Taylor and Mike Hesson are just building a 'working relationship, Shane Watson and Michael Clarke has had issues, and Watson didn't share a great relation with sacked coach Mickey Arthur. majority of indian players including Sachin Tendulkar, Virender Sehwag, Sourav Ganguly, Zaheer Khan and Harbhajan Singh had huge issues with Greg Chappell, David Gower, Allan Lamb and a few other contemporaries had major issues with Graeme Gooch. Brian Lara had Huge respect for Rohan Kanhai as coach and had a good time with Bob Woolmer, but had issues with most other coaches he worked with. Shane Warne never thought too highly of international coaches.
In all these cases, there are 2 sides with varying balance. Same holds true for Pietersen.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:20 pm

banbrotam wrote:
msp83 wrote:Swann is not an England player any more. He didn't quite hold back on his views even when he and Pietersen shared a dressing room. There is no need now.


And then have all the hassle that would have landed on him from the likes of Morgan??

So what if Swan got on with him. KP expects to be treated differently, that is indisputable. In that case, he needs to average  more than 33 in a year
Every player goes through rough patches. Sachin Tendulkar averaged 20 in 2006 before producing 3 of the best years in his career. Its pure nonsense to suggest that KP didn't make any effort not to change his approach. He stuck it out well in the 4th test as much as he could, the lower order gave him no support whatsoever. People suggested that he was handing the advantage to the Australians when he played a more defense oriented game, they sat on his head when his attacking game didn't quite deliver. And when everyone else were failing around, it is naïve to expect KP to score hundreds and double hundreds each time he went out to bat.

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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:33 pm

On the other hand Swann wasn't there for the entire tour.

Regardless, as I and a few others have said, why is it always Kevin Pieterson having run ins with authority figures.

Maybe its just that KPs a royal pain in the ass, and he no longer produces enough to justify it.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:39 pm

As I said, Kevin Pietersen is not the only cricketer who hasn't been a proclaimed conformist. Graeme Swann himself was not selected for 7 years after his international debut for reasons well known.

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Post by kingraf on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:48 pm

Suppose different boards have different tolerance levels for prima donnas. All I know is had KP stayed in South Africa his ego wouldnt have gotten him within an earshot of selection.
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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:56 pm

kingraf wrote:Suppose different boards have different tolerance levels for prima donnas. All I know is had KP stayed in South Africa his ego wouldnt have gotten him within an earshot of selection.


 Very Happy If Kallis had texted Cook on how to get Smith out, do you think he would have played for SA again?

Kallis being the better cricketer than KP TOO.

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Post by kingraf on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:04 pm

I don't think Kallis would be allowed anywhere near the change rooms, let alone back in the team. It's amazing that otherwise level-headed posters seem convinced that there's a worldwide witch hunt, which can be the only logical reason why he has had a tiff at every county/franchise he's ever played in.... Great player by all means, and when he respects you, he can be great guy apparently, but I don't see how it's management's responsibility to make sure you're not a pr!ck.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:09 pm

skyeman wrote:
kingraf wrote:Suppose different boards have different tolerance levels for prima donnas. All I know is had KP stayed in South Africa his ego wouldnt have gotten him within an earshot of selection.


 Very Happy If Kallis had texted Cook on how to get Smith out, do you think he would have played for SA again?

Kallis being the better cricketer than KP TOO.
Even Herschelle Gibbs got away with the Cronje taint....... What did he get? suspended for 6 months!.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:13 pm

OK OK  Kingraf.


Sad as it is, i think they have done now what they should have done in 2012, albeit a different board.

My beef is with the ECB's vague response.

And yet again we have this:

James Whitaker's attempt to justify the omission of Kevin Pietersen from the squad for England's tour of the West Indies and subsequent World Twenty20 in Bangladesh could not have been more carefully controlled: only the rights holders, Sky TV and BBC radio, were allowed anywhere near him and, with legal issues still swirling, the demarcation lines on what he could answer were clearly laid down.

For all that, Whitaker has had better days. With one unscientific poll on ESPNcricinfo suggesting around 80% of England cricket fans supported Pietersen - and about half of the rest wanted more answers - Whitaker, the new national selector, was probably on to a loser but he did nothing to swing sympathy towards the ECB's unforgiving stance.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:16 pm

And those who left their team in the lurch for apartheid bloodmoney, despite knowing they would be banned, that their teams would be badly hit were welcomed back by England with both hands at the first given opportunity.
Australia protected the antics of Mark Waugh and Warne, the BCCI still have a president who's son inlaw is facing a criminal investigation regarding match fixing...... Lets drop the pretensions, shall we?

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:16 pm

Sounds like a deal between the two, but with KP leaking to Morgan.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:19 pm

msp83 wrote:And those who left their team in the lurch for apartheid bloodmoney, despite knowing they would be banned, that their teams would be badly hit were welcomed back by England with both hands at the first given opportunity.
Australia protected the antics of Mark Waugh and Warne, the BCCI still have a president who's son inlaw  is facing a criminal investigation regarding match fixing...... Lets drop the pretensions, shall we?


WOW msp. Go for the jugular Very Happy 

KP must have been really bad then.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:23 pm

Greed was involved with these msp. KP was just a fool at times and although he was given many chances over the years, his continued egotistical ways were his downfall.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:25 pm

I look at this way.

Guys like Cook/Prior who pushed mountains to get KP reinstated to the side after textgate have now had enough.

You only get so many chances not to be a d!ck in life.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:28 pm

skyeman wrote:Greed was involved with these msp. KP was just a fool at times and although he was given many chances over the years, his continued egotistical ways were his downfall.
I am not suggesting that Pietersen was an angel. Just calling for a bit of perspective.

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