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Post by Stella on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 11:26 am

Now that Pietersen has been shown the door, who replaces the great batsman? Not the easiest job in world cricket.

Taylor - Mr small shoes himself has been a little unlucky with his chances (only two tests), but looks like a good player.

Morgan - No doubt he has talent, but can he reign in his ODI nature of batting, and become a solid middle order player?

Bairstow - Failed in Aus, and is maybe not quite up to being a test standard keeper. Is this another life for the Yorkshireman?

Root - If Trott does return, and England decide to stick with Carberry, or pick another opener, that may bring Joe back to the middle order?

Bopara - NO

A.nother?
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Post by banbrotam on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 11:30 am

Ballance?

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Post by banbrotam on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 11:32 am

First Test Top 6

Cook, Carberry, Trott, Bell, Root, Taylor or Balance

It's arguable that you can drop one of these and start Butler etc at 6

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Post by Stella on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 11:35 am

I knew there was someone else. Yes, I liked the look of him, despite his low scores. A lot of course will depend if Trott does return. I guess they should plan with the idea, that he won't.

Cook
Carberry/???
Root
Ballance/Morgan/Bairstow
Bell
Stokes

Not the best top six there has ever been.
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Post by JDizzle on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 11:36 am

Cook
Robson
Taylor
Bell
Root
Stokes
Prior

That's what I think will be gone for. Taylor is batting three for the England Lions at the moment in SL, so it is clear that someone sees him as a top order player (He's opened for the Lions before) and you wonder if the new coach may share this point of view. Don't think Trott will ever play Test cricket again unfortunately, I would be surprised if a new coach wanted to risk him when we've seen previously from Trescothick that the ability to get through a home series doesn't give you any real information on how you will cope on tour.

Again, Robson has scored runs at every level he has been given a chance too. Think he will definitely be above Chopra now in the pecking order. Could perhaps see Compton getting another go instead of Robson/Taylor, just to add some experience to the top order.

Bell bats at 4, a given.

Root in it 5. Think you have to start with a clean slate with Joe. Forget where he has been moved to and from, just say to him you are batting 5 for England and this is where you will be batting for the forseeable future. Give him a chance to stake his claim there.

Stokes at 6. Not entirely convinced by Stokes at 6, as whilst he showed flashes of a genuine all rounder his bowling and especially batting are still a bit hit and miss. Could see them going with him at 6 if they had someone like Woakes at 8 to provide some ballast to the batting line up. LIke him though, just need to figure out his best position in the side.

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Post by alfie on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 11:46 am

JDizzle wrote:Cook
Robson
Taylor
Bell
Root
Stokes
Prior

That's what I think will be gone for. Taylor is batting three for the England Lions at the moment in SL, so it is clear that someone sees him as a top order player (He's opened for the Lions before) and you wonder if the new coach may share this point of view. Don't think Trott will ever play Test cricket again unfortunately, I would be surprised if a new coach wanted to risk him when we've seen previously from Trescothick that the ability to get through a home series doesn't give you any real information on how you will cope on tour.

Again, Robson has scored runs at every level he has been given a chance too. Think he will definitely be above Chopra now in the pecking order. Could perhaps see Compton getting another go instead of Robson/Taylor, just to add some experience to the top order.

Bell bats at 4, a given.

Root in it 5. Think you have to start with a clean slate with Joe. Forget where he has been moved to and from, just say to him you are batting 5 for England and this is where you will be batting for the forseeable future. Give him a chance to stake his claim there.

Stokes at 6. Not entirely convinced by Stokes at 6, as whilst he showed flashes of a genuine all rounder his bowling and especially batting are still a bit hit and miss. Could see them going with him at 6 if they had someone like Woakes at 8 to provide some ballast to the batting line up. LIke him though, just need to figure out his best position in the side.

Quite like that choice. Have to see how Robson goes , of course , at that level ; but I hear good reports of him.
Definitely agree Root would be better placed back at five or six , especially with the KP departure. He may one day make a top three batsman , but I am not sure this is the time.

But I think runs in the early County games ought to count for a bit this year...

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Post by banbrotam on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 11:55 am

Point is. There's enough talent in all these suggestions to cope without KP

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Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 3:26 pm

There was almost a decade between Botham and the real emergence of Fredye Flintoff. After Fredye left, it took 4 years for England to even produce a potential who looks as an all-rounder, and the jury is still out on Ben Stokes. Kevin Pietersen is the best England batsman in many decades, lets see how they go about replacing him so easily.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 3:59 pm

msp83 wrote:There was almost a decade between Botham and the real emergence of Fredye Flintoff. After Fredye left, it took 4 years for England to even produce a potential who looks as an all-rounder, and the jury is still out on Ben Stokes. Kevin Pietersen is the best England batsman in many decades, lets see how they go about replacing him so easily.

They won't replace him easily, don't think many people are suggesting that they will.

As for the decade between Botham and Flintoff, genuine Test quality all rounders these days are so rare that one every ten years is a decent find.

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Post by kingraf on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 4:25 pm

There aren't a lot of English cricketers currently playing who can replicate the 186 in Mumbai, or the 149 in Headingly... But I can't believe there aren't a few English cricketers who will be able to replicate his average of 33 over the last year - this I suspect is a more important equation
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 4:40 pm

kingraf wrote:There aren't a lot of English cricketers currently playing who can replicate the 186 in Mumbai, or the 149 in Headingly... But I can't believe there aren't a few English cricketers who will be able to replicate his average of 33 over the last year - this I suspect is a more important equation

This is the point Kingraf. England aren't replacing the Kevin Pieterson of 05-09 they're replacing the one of 2013.
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Post by Stella on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 4:42 pm

Olly wrote:
kingraf wrote:There aren't a lot of English cricketers currently playing who can replicate the 186 in Mumbai, or the 149 in Headingly... But I can't believe there aren't a few English cricketers who will be able to replicate his average of 33 over the last year - this I suspect is a more important equation

This is the point Kingraf. England aren't replacing the Kevin Pieterson of 05-09 they're replacing the one of 2013.

One bad year though. Class is permanent and all that. He was imo past his best, but he's still our best middle order player.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 4:45 pm

Stella wrote:
Olly wrote:
kingraf wrote:There aren't a lot of English cricketers currently playing who can replicate the 186 in Mumbai, or the 149 in Headingly... But I can't believe there aren't a few English cricketers who will be able to replicate his average of 33 over the last year - this I suspect is a more important equation

This is the point Kingraf. England aren't replacing the Kevin Pieterson of 05-09 they're replacing the one of 2013.

One bad year though. Class is permanent and all that. He was imo past his best, but he's still our best middle order player.

Yes he is, but matter of fact is he only averaged 33 last year, and really we can only go off his most recent offerings. He could of course of had a majestic 2014, but now that'll only be guess work
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Post by Stella on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 4:48 pm

Olly wrote:
Stella wrote:
Olly wrote:
kingraf wrote:There aren't a lot of English cricketers currently playing who can replicate the 186 in Mumbai, or the 149 in Headingly... But I can't believe there aren't a few English cricketers who will be able to replicate his average of 33 over the last year - this I suspect is a more important equation

This is the point Kingraf. England aren't replacing the Kevin Pieterson of 05-09 they're replacing the one of 2013.

One bad year though. Class is permanent and all that. He was imo past his best, but he's still our best middle order player.

Yes he is, but matter of fact is he only averaged 33 last year, and really we can only go off his most recent offerings. He could of course of had a majestic 2014, but now that'll only be guess work

True. Damn shame we won't know.
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Post by kingraf on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 4:52 pm

I wrote during the Ashes that the key wasn't whether English management thought there were players who could produce similar numbers to KP2013 (there are), but whether they thought KP could produce better figures than KP2013. The quite obvious answer seems to be yes to the former, no to the latter.
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Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 5:41 pm

Well if you look to replace KP 2013 with someone who can produce a similar average, a massive turn around in results can also not be expected?

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Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 5:42 pm

All that KP's upcoming replacement can hope for is that Ishant Sharma will have a good test in New Zealand so that we would pick him for the summer series. That's half the battle won for England!.

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Post by gboycottnut1 on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 6:54 pm

In does seem that KP's card was marked even before the fifth and final ashes test at Sydney when England decided to select Gary Ballance. Looks likely that Ballance is KP's successor in the England team, with Ian Bell temporarily in the short term moving up to bat at 4, with Ballance at 5. A very likely England top 6 for the first test series of this summer could be :-

1 Cook
2 Robson / Compton
3 Carberry
4 Bell
5 Ballance
6 Stokes
Then the Keeper (Buttler or Prior)
Then the Bowlers from 8 to 11 (Broad, Anderson, ?, Panesar?)

However with so many starting positions now uncertain due to retirements, bad form etc no one can predict what England XI will be taking the field in the first test match.

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Post by banbrotam on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 7:36 pm

Stella wrote:
Olly wrote:
kingraf wrote:There aren't a lot of English cricketers currently playing who can replicate the 186 in Mumbai, or the 149 in Headingly... But I can't believe there aren't a few English cricketers who will be able to replicate his average of 33 over the last year - this I suspect is a more important equation

This is the point Kingraf. England aren't replacing the Kevin Pieterson of 05-09 they're replacing the one of 2013.

One bad year though. Class is permanent and all that. He was imo past his best, but he's still our best middle order player.


KP's not been the same since he came back. So all the worshipers (not you!!) are barking up the wrong tree. So he has a fairly ordinary average in this time and that fact, makes the extra work he generates too much

If he'd averaged 50, we wouldn't be discussing this, because he would be worth the hassle. When a flawed character plays like a genius, that is definite motivation for the youngsters. If he isn't then it's the opposite

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 8:18 pm

Stella wrote:

Morgan - No doubt he has talent, but can he reign in his ODI nature of batting, and become a solid middle order player?

Piers didnt look that comfortable against Lee

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Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 8:29 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Stella wrote:

Morgan - No doubt he has talent, but can he reign in his ODI nature of batting, and become a solid middle order player?

Piers didnt look that comfortable against Lee
Piers though has had Matt Prior running for cover.
The ECB seems to have bought KP's silence, but things won't be quiet if Morgan has any say in the matter!.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 8:53 pm

Piers Morgan is a w*nker of the highest order. Anyone who takes him seriously needs a serious look in the mirror
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Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 8:55 pm

Its not about taking him seriously, its about the impact that he can have, and already he has goaded Prior into responding......

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Post by skyeman on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 9:13 pm

Can't be right surely. Just read Anderson has a better batting average than KP for the last 12 months.

Must be a trick. Has KP not played?

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 9:27 pm

Almost half Andersons innings have been not outs

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Post by msp83 on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 9:33 pm

Anderson averaged 7.93 with the bat and 32.14 with the ball. from first Jan 2013.

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Post by skyeman on Wed 05 Feb 2014, 9:38 pm

Thanks. SS, i know you know but forgot to put ODI's.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:28 am

Olly wrote:Piers Morgan is a w*nker of the highest order. Anyone who takes him seriously needs a serious look in the mirror

Totally agree, yet the BBC (5 Live) decided to interview him about the KP situatuion and tag it onto their show on Tuesday, when the news broke. The Producer gave us the thought of Agnew, Boycott and Vaughan. Yet gave the final word to Morgan, who claims to have no stake in this situation other than being just an England supporter.


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Post by Pal Joey on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 8:52 am

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
Olly wrote:Piers Morgan is a w*nker of the highest order. Anyone who takes him seriously needs a serious look in the mirror

Totally agree, yet the BBC (5 Live) decided to interview him about the KP situation and tag it onto their show on Tuesday, when the news broke.  The Producer gave us the thought of Agnew, Boycott and Vaughan.  Yet gave the final word to Morgan, who claims to have no stake in this situation other than being just an England supporter.


I guess we're lucky Richard Quest didn't have the last word.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:22 am

msp83 wrote:Anderson averaged 7.93 with the bat and 32.14 with the ball.  from first Jan 2013.

It's Odis Anderson averaged more in over the last year.

In t20 kp has played once in nearly 2 years and didnt bat. Only 3 other games this side of oct 2011.

Hardly the vital component of England's limited overs squads he's made out to be.

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Post by JDizzle on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:27 pm

Well, England's T20 squad is going to be announced at 12.30 so we will get the first indications as to who is set to fill KP's shoes. Although, as have been pointed out, he has barely played T20's for England recently.

Rumour is there is set to be a surprise inclusion, but at the point in time it could be anyone. I'd be surprised/horrified if Dernbach was included again.

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Post by JDizzle on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:36 pm

Broad, Morgan, Ali, Bopara, Bresnan, Buttler, Dernbach, Gurney, Hales, Jordan, Lumb, Parry, Root, Stokes, Tredwell, Wright.

Parry, Ali and Gurney are the obvious shocks.

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Post by Stella on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:37 pm

No Patel?
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:39 pm

JDizzle wrote:

Rumour is there is set to be a surprise inclusion,

KP  Shocked

Piers Morgan? Shane Warne?  Jessica Taylor? Geoff Boycotts Mum with a stick of rhubarb? Some overated county spinner who will get hit for 14 an over?

OK the last one wouldnt be a surprise.

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Post by JDizzle on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:41 pm

Yeah, it's the overrated county spinner. Parry will probably get a game if we go with two spinners, which I imagine we will. Why were none of these three picked in the Aus T20 series? Giles was in charge then and still is.

Hales, Lumb, Wright, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Bopara, Bresnan, Broad, Jordan, Tredwell, Parry?

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Post by Sangakkara on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:47 pm

Where's Pietersen???

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Post by skyeman on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:51 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
JDizzle wrote:

Rumour is there is set to be a surprise inclusion,

KP  Shocked

Piers Morgan? Shane Warne?  Jessica Taylor? Geoff Boycotts Mum with a stick of rhubarb? Some overated county spinner who will get hit for 14 an over?

OK the last one wouldnt be a surprise.


Like your SoH Laugh 

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Post by GSC on Thu 06 Feb 2014, 12:53 pm

Suffering a contusion of the ego
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