South Africa v Australia, First Test, Centurion

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Post by msp83 on Tue 11 Feb 2014, 6:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

So the much anticipated series is getting underway tomorrow. South Africa, the number 1 side in the world, will be taking on a confident Australia. South Africa have enjoyed a solid stay at the top of the test rankings, for a year and a half, and the Australians are coming into this series after Thumping, Pulverizing, Thrashing, Humiliating and destroying England 5-0 in the recently concluded Ashes series.
Both sides have quality bowling units, and 4 of the top 5 ranked bowlers will be battling it out, and cricinfo points out, that doesn't even include Mitchell Johnson!. And Morne Morkel as well.
Australia are likely to go in with Shaun Marsh and Alex Doolan for the injured Shane Watson and the dropped George Bailey, the rest of their Ashes winning side should stay the same.
South Africa are likely to bring in one of Ryan McLaren and Wayne Parnell, and move Faf du Plessis to 4, as they contemplate life after Kallis. JP Duminy has some injury concerns going into the match, but he is likely to play.

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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 12:24 pm

Aus going after the spin again. Where Kallis will be missed.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 12:42 pm

Marsh goes to a good fifty, despite obviously struggling with a niggle
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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 12:42 pm

Very nice 50 from Marsh.

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Post by alfie on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 12:43 pm

Good fifty for Marsh. clap 

The quick recovery from injury has paid off ...although he isn't moving too well now so I wonder how he is going to be as the match goes on...

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Post by alfie on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 12:57 pm

Good recovery this from Australia...think SA need a wicket pretty soon if they are to justify sending them in . Think they expected a bit more help from the pitch than has happened. Either that or they underestimated this Australian batting lineup ...

Mind you , couple of quick wickets would change things.


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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 12:59 pm

Marsh giving a good account of himself........and he has looked and organized player with good temperament every time i have seen him.....that belies his FC average of 35
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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 1:13 pm

Aussies session this one despite the loss of Clarke, 93/1 to take them to 176/4 at tea. Good partnership forming and rallying Australia.

3rd session will tell if Smith was right to put Aus in to bat.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 1:35 pm

Fine recovery this from the Australians. South Africa in need of a moment of inspiration.

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 2:00 pm

skyeman wrote:Aussies session this one despite the loss of Clarke, 93/1 to take them to 176/4 at tea. Good partnership forming and rallying Australia.

3rd session will tell if Smith was right to put Aus in to bat.

I was a bit surprised that Smith chose to bowl even though that does appear to be much more the way than it used to be. Anyway, best for him to get any captaincy mishaps out the way before he returns to Surrey.  Wink 

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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 2:06 pm

100 partnership up and these two looking very comfortable. Aus 199 /4.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 2:28 pm

Marsh into the 90s, and Smith closing in on his 50. Australia in control at 216-4.

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Post by kingraf on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 2:35 pm

Must be honest - I very rarely get worried when we're under the pump with the ball - As much as any team in history, we're capable of winning a Test match in a session on any given day. What I am concerned about is no one heeding my advise and not playing McLaren. My word, what does a Lions player not named Alviro have to do to get a cap?
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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 2:38 pm

 clap After his horror show against India, Marsh has come back and scored a well constructed century and under pressure too when Aus were 98/4.

Watson may have to move down the order if Marsh is put in at 3..

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 2:41 pm

Marsh gets a 100....I am pleased for him...he has looked an honest and temperamentally sound cricketer who raises his level in international games....his tests and ODI averages are already higher than his FC averages.

Smith continues his good innings   on difficult pitches.....50 and going strong.

Aus in control..for now atleast
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Post by msp83 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 2:56 pm

Australia 244-4, Marsh on 101, Smith on 63, and the South Africans looking a bit out of sorts.
It is debatable whether the call to put in the Australians was the right one, but one thing is for sure, it hasn't worked the way the South Africans were hoping it to.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 3:09 pm

Australia 256-4, the new ball only 2 overs away.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 3:23 pm

Smith delayed the new ball by 2 overs, but its taken at last. A bit strange tactic that from South Africa.

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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 3:26 pm

Good from these two. Played Duminy and Peterson for just a few singles for eight overs then attack the new ball.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 3:35 pm

The SA seamers not able to get a good start with the 2nd new ball, the 2 Australian batsmen happy to leave as much as possible, and they are getting plenty of chances.

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 3:44 pm

Well, this is strange - an Australian rescue act with the bat that hasn't featured Haddin!

A century already for Marsh whilst Smith looks good money for another following his impressive Ashes series.

I understand that Clarke would have chosen to bat had he won the toss. Odd decision by Smith to do otherwise, particularly as I'm hearing (I've only watched bits today) that Steyn woke up this morning with gut rot.

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 3:50 pm

Lovely comment by Mike Holding on the possible benefits of ice baths for fast bowlers. You have to imagine the accent as he says -
''Ice goes in my drinks, not in my bath.''  Very Happy 

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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 3:51 pm

199 partnership and understandably the bowling looking a bit flat.

Philander having a rare wicketless day. Kallis and his 10 overs were missed.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 3:54 pm

So Australia end the day at 297-4. From 98-4, this has been a superb recovery, and they end the day on top. Brilliant comeback to test cricket for Shaun Marsh, and Steven Smith is getting better and better.

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 4:11 pm

skyeman wrote:199 partnership and understandably the bowling looking a bit flat.

Philander having a rare wicketless day. Kallis and his 10 overs were missed.

why so?
they are playing Mclaren as the 4th seamer...and no less than Kallis as a bowler ( especially in his last days)

give credit to Aus.......they played well......Marsh and Doolan in give more solidity as a test match batting side then Watson and Bailey did
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 4:33 pm

Fantastic recovery (as ever) and first day for Australia.

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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 4:41 pm

KP_fan wrote:
skyeman wrote:199 partnership and understandably the bowling looking a bit flat.

Philander having a rare wicketless day. Kallis and his 10 overs were missed.

why so?
they are playing Mclaren as the 4th seamer...and no less than Kallis as a bowler ( especially in his last days)

give credit to Aus.......they played well......Marsh and Doolan in give more solidity as a test match batting side then Watson and Bailey did



He would have come on for Peterson who was being hit out of the attack and kept it tight until the seamers had rested and he would often be a partnership breaker.

He was not one of the best ever AR's for nothing!

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 6:50 pm

Peterson would have still played ....if Kallis was around Mclaren would not have played
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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 6:53 pm

KP_fan wrote:Peterson would have still played ....if Kallis was around Mclaren would not have played


You are missing the point KP fan. As regards to what Kallis gave the team.

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Post by Guest on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 6:56 pm

very good for OZ, well played Marsh and Smith!

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 7:12 pm

skyeman wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Peterson would have still played ....if Kallis was around Mclaren would not have played


You are missing the point KP fan. As regards to what Kallis gave the team.

yes may be am I missing something?
To me he was a batsman and a change bolwer at the end of his career...althouhg when I saw him debut he used to bowl at 90mph in 1999
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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 7:19 pm

SA with Kallis would have had an extra bat who was one of the worlds best and also would have been a more than suitable bowler in place of McLaren or anyone else of his type as the fourth seamer.

Smith said this morning, "Kallis was worth two players". That is why is 10 overs will be missed.

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 7:57 pm

skyeman wrote:SA with Kallis would have had an extra bat who was one of the worlds best and also would have been a more than suitable bowler in place of McLaren or anyone else of his type as the fourth seamer.

Smith said this morning, "Kallis was worth two players". That is why is 10 overs will be missed.

Kallis would be missed as a batsman.....but with McLaren in.......not as a bowler in my view
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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 8:05 pm

KP_fan wrote:
skyeman wrote:SA with Kallis would have had an extra bat who was one of the worlds best and also would have been a more than suitable bowler in place of McLaren or anyone else of his type as the fourth seamer.

Smith said this morning, "Kallis was worth two players". That is why is 10 overs will be missed.

Kallis would be missed as a batsman.....but with McLaren in.......not as a bowler in my view


OK, my last word on it.

Why do you think Smith who has been in charge of a Test team that has not lost a series in five years thinks that "Kallis is worth two players" said it, when he differs from your opinion Doh 

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 8:16 pm

skyeman wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
skyeman wrote:SA with Kallis would have had an extra bat who was one of the worlds best and also would have been a more than suitable bowler in place of McLaren or anyone else of his type as the fourth seamer.

Smith said this morning, "Kallis was worth two players". That is why is 10 overs will be missed.

Kallis would be missed as a batsman.....but with McLaren in.......not as a bowler in my view


OK, my last word on it.

Why do you think Smith who has been in charge of a Test team that has not lost a series in five years thinks that "Kallis is worth two players" said it, when he differs from your opinion Doh 

because McLaren cannot score anywhere close to Kalis with the bat
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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 8:20 pm

KP_fan wrote:
skyeman wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
skyeman wrote:SA with Kallis would have had an extra bat who was one of the worlds best and also would have been a more than suitable bowler in place of McLaren or anyone else of his type as the fourth seamer.

Smith said this morning, "Kallis was worth two players". That is why is 10 overs will be missed.

Kallis would be missed as a batsman.....but with McLaren in.......not as a bowler in my view


OK, my last word on it.

Why do you think Smith who has been in charge of a Test team that has not lost a series in five years thinks that "Kallis is worth two players" said it, when he differs from your opinion Doh 

because McLaren cannot score anywhere close to Kalis with the bat


Exactly, you got there in the end. And he could have done the same job with the ball.

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 9:10 pm

skyman wrote:Exactly, you got there in the end. And he could have done the same job with the ball

nope..you got back to the starting point.
McLaren is a better bowler than Kaliis was at the end of his career
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Post by Duty281 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 9:43 pm

Of course Kallis was missed on the bowling front - 10 overs each were sent down by Peterson and Duminy. Say no more.

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 9:51 pm

Duty281 wrote:Of course Kallis was missed on the bowling front - 10 overs each were sent down by Peterson and Duminy. Say no more.

yeahhh...true...now I see...finally.....if Kallis was playing he would have bowled the 16 overs of McLaren + atleats 10 out of the 20 overs that were shared between Peterson and Duminy.

so Kallis would have bowled 16+10= 26 overs atleast  Shocked 

hmmm
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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 10:00 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Of course Kallis was missed on the bowling front - 10 overs each were sent down by Peterson and Duminy. Say no more.

yeahhh...true...now I see...finally.....if Kallis was playing he would have bowled the 16 overs of McLaren + atleats 10 out of the 20 overs that were shared between Peterson and Duminy.

so Kallis would have bowled 16+10= 26 overs atleast  Shocked 

hmmm


Are you taking the pee KP fan?

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 10:13 pm

Um...no, KP_fan, just no.

But he would have bowled some of the overs, say 10-ish, which would have been a greater asset to South Africa.

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Post by skyeman on Wed 12 Feb 2014, 10:21 pm

Sorry, but can't help biting.


Take the 1st Test against India recently. Kallis bowled 14 overs, 1 wkt at 2.67.

Tahir (front line spinner} and Duminy bowled only 13 overs between them. 0 wkts at 6 an over.

Stop being silly KP fan.

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Post by Mike Selig on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 12:25 am

So the Marsh doubters are... where?

Incredible that after just one horror series Australia dropped him then picked the likes of Hughes, Khawaja and Bailey in front of him TBH. Just looks a class above those guys. I mean he may not make another run, and I may be made to look very silly, but look at him bat, then look at those guys (with the exception of Khawaja) or even Watson bat, and tell me who the better player is.

Anyway, better late than never I suppose.

Nice knock by Smith under pressure again.

Can't actually see how South Africa have missed Kallis's bowling so far. McLaren the 4th seamer bowled 16 overs, which in all honesty is probably a few more than Kallis would have bowled (more 10-15) although the latter may have been a tad more economical. The stats quoted against India just shows the main 3 bowlers did a lot more bowling (they had to, because Kallis bowled as much as he could and the spinners were going around the park).

SA will of course miss Kallis the player, and Kallis the batsman, but whilst they pick 5 essentially specialist bowlers, they oughtn't to miss his bowling too much (they may miss some of the control he provides, but McLaren did a decent job early on in that).

As for tomorrow, well let me just say this is far from over. SA's attack is still capable of rolling the Aussies out for under 400, and then we know they have a few players in that side who can score big big runs.

Australia of course are on top, but they'd do well not to take their foot off the gas.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 3:17 am

Let me rephrase, Kallis and his 10 overs will be missed.

South Africa will not be able to replace a man who has taken 292 Test wkts at under 3 runs an over and a batsman who averaged over fifty so they have  had to change the make-up of their team  to compensate for the absence of an out-and-out bowler and out-and-out batsman. Previously they did not need five bowlers which also weakens the batting.

Only been one Test but if this is such a close fought contest as expected then Kallis's WC batting and bowling skill will of course be missed.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 6:56 am

skyeman wrote:Let me rephrase, Kallis and his 10 overs will be missed.

South Africa will not be able to replace a man who has taken 292 Test wkts at under 3 runs an over and a batsman who averaged over fifty so they have  had to change the make-up of their team  to compensate for the absence of an out-and-out bowler and out-and-out batsman. Previously they did not need five bowlers which also weakens the batting.

Only been one Test but if this is such a close fought contest as expected then Kallis's WC batting and bowling skill will of course be missed.
Is it a surprise that Kallis the player will be missed by South Africa?
But by restructuring their lineup with 4 bowlers and a primarily bowling all-rounder, SA took the right approach to building their in the post-Kallis world. I am with KPF and Mike on this, not too sure Kallis the bowler was missed too much. McLaren provided reasonable control, and he chipped in with the wicket of Doolan just when he was building a partnership with Marsh.
The question that needs to be asked though, is whether SA should have gone in with Parnell over McLaren? Some of our South African friends have been reporting that Parnell has been bowling in the mid 140s of late. He provides that left-arm option and the lad can bat, though his over numbers with bat and ball are not as good as those of McLaren at this moment. But Parnell is a lot younger, and would have offered a more attacking option.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 7:16 am


THE basis for selecting a playing XI has not changed much in Test cricket since the first international match played over an extended period of time was labelled a "Test" match.

There have been variations on the theme in the past 130 years, but the starting point is basically the same. Six batsmen, four bowlers and a wicketkeeper.

The first and most common variation has been to have an allrounder good enough to bat at No 6. This allows the team to have a five-man bowling attack without compromising their batting strength or depth. However, they are extremely rare. Fewer than a dozen have done so regularly in the past 60 or so years.

Those teams that have boasted that luxury have, in many ways, enjoyed a numerical advantage over their opposition. It "feels" like it is XI against XII, especially when the contest reaches the final couple of days.

South Africa have enjoyed that luxury for the past 15 years. Jacques Kallis is unique in the history of the game. No genuine all-rounder has ever batted in the top four for more than a handful of games. When the wicket-keepers gloves were handed to AB de Villiers following the untimely end of Mark Boucher’s career, the Proteas entered yet further unique territory.

Never before in Test history have a team regularly played a specialist wicketkeeper and a specialist bowler in the top six of their batting line-up. Effectively, South Africa have been fielding a 13-man XI against their opposition for the past 18 months.

Many of the world’s best players feature in the South African Test team, so it should not be a surprise that they dominate the world game by an unprecedented distance in the ICC rankings. But it is not merely the class of Graeme Smith, Hashim Amla, Kallis, De Villiers, Dale Steyn, Vernon Philander and Morne Morkel which accounts for the rise to the top of the world. It is the depth that Kallis and De Villiers provided by performing specialist jobs alongside their jobs as specialist batsmen.

Matter-of-fact statements regarding ifs and buts in sport are random, but the players and their coaches believe absolutely that they would not have won in England or Australia last year without the extraordinary and unprecedented luxury of a five-man bowling attack and seven specialist batsmen. Gary Kirsten called it the "X-factor".


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Post by skyeman on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 7:31 am

SA need an early breakthrough or this Test could be one long slog just to avoid defeat. Haddin in his best form, Johnson with an average of 63 in SA followed by Siddle and Harris who are no mugs. And if Johnson gets a few runs - watch out SA batsmen.

Vital session coming up for SA.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 7:35 am

Yeah skye, Kallis the player, not the bowler as such, will be missed.......
South Africa still have a celection of all-rounders. They are not really in the Kallis league, but Ryan McLaren, Wayne Parnell, Robin Peterson, Simon Harmer and Chris Morris all are capable of batting at 7 and bowling a decent number of overs regularly with varying degrees of effectiveness/impact.

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Post by skyeman on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 7:41 am

msp83 wrote:Yeah skye, Kallis the player, not the bowler as such, will be missed.......
South Africa still have a celection of all-rounders. They are not really in the Kallis league, but Ryan McLaren, Wayne Parnell, Robin Peterson, Simon Harmer and Chris Morris all are capable of batting at 7 and bowling a decent number of overs regularly with varying degrees of effectiveness/impact.


But his bowling was a massive part of the X-factor, that is why they will miss his bowling so much.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 7:52 am

Duty281 wrote:Um...no, KP_fan, just no.

But he would have bowled some of the overs, say 10-ish, which would have been a greater asset to South Africa.

so who would have bowled Mclaren's 16 overs
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Post by skyeman on Thu 13 Feb 2014, 8:35 am

Morkel off to hospital for a scan. Peterson will have to bowl a bit more today if the other three seamers don't get early wkts.

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