CL Last 16

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CL Last 16

Post by Liam on Tue 18 Feb 2014, 1:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

Some cracking games this week, Barca/City and Bayern/Arsenal. Can't see past Bayern and Barca wins. Pellegrini has said he'll attack Barca and I say do so at your peril. This may not be the Barca side from 2010-2012 but its still a very very good side with players in form currently, namely Fabregas, Sanchez and with a returning Messi back in the goals. There's a chance that if they go in with two strikers that they could get torn to pieces. I think against Barca you have to play a 5 man midfield. They keep the ball too well and will just pass their way through you.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:46 pm

@CFCNick wrote:
@socal1976 wrote:
@Ent wrote:Arsenal should be ashamed of that tonight, terrible decision making.

Ozil, cazorla no effort what so ever.

Monreal just useless.

Why should they be ashamed of losing to the European champions with 10 men? I am not ashamed, I am proud of the boys. They were the big underdogs and were giving as good as they got when they were 11 on 11.

The last time Chelsea were down to 10 men against the European champions we came back from 2-0 down in the Nou Camp. Just saying.

Ok great, I am not saying it was the greatest day in club history I am saying that I am not ashamed of the way we played. We were a bit unlucky and played pretty well. Also facing the best club team in the world. I don't feel the players should feel shame in regards to Arsenal's performance. The goalie made on bad mistake that turned the match.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:47 pm

Olly wrote:Find it strange to criticise a playmaker in Ozil, when he's asked to basically be a defender for most of the game

he needs to man up. He has strength and skill. He is the effective senior player. It doesn't matter that he is great at as sits. His game and skills are way above that one strength.

but the main concern was how he played before 10 men. It wasn't good enough

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:49 pm

@mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:Find it strange to criticise a playmaker in Ozil, when he's asked to basically be a defender for most of the game

he needs to man up. He has strength and skill. He is the effective senior player. It doesn't matter that he is great at as sits. His game and skills are way above that one strength.

but the main concern was how he played before 10 men. It wasn't good enough

I missed the first 20/25 mins as was at work, so dunno how he was really playing before then  thumbsup 
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by CFCNick on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:49 pm

@Ent wrote:It's nothing to do with Chelsea.

The goalkeeper commits a stupid foul, gets sent off then gives the ref an abusive gesture.

Ozil misses a pen, gives the ball away more or less every time he gets it, makes no effort and let's the left back be 1 on 1 every time.

Monreal just terrible.

Cazorla, just couldn't be bothered playing.

Kos, well where to start. 1-0 and desperate to keep it that way, wrecklessly goes forward, gets freekick. Does he come back? No, runs further forward- then doesn't get back and bayern score. Stupid tackle on mueller could have given a penalty away.

I'm not saying it is. Just giving some perspective. It could've been a lot better for Arsenal.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Ent on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:50 pm

Olly wrote:
@mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:Find it strange to criticise a playmaker in Ozil, when he's asked to basically be a defender for most of the game

he needs to man up. He has strength and skill. He is the effective senior player. It doesn't matter that he is great at as sits. His game and skills are way above that one strength.

but the main concern was how he played before 10 men. It wasn't good enough

I missed the first 20/25 mins as was at work, so dunno how he was really playing before then  thumbsup 

Bottled his penalty, head went completely and didn't do anythingg of note.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:50 pm

Olly wrote:Find it strange to criticise a playmaker in Ozil, when he's asked to basically be a defender for most of the game

Yeah did we expect him to morph into Maldini all of a sudden. Look one play turned the match. It was even when the match was at even strength and not surprisingly it went Bayern's way when it went 11 on 10. Firs 25 minutes or so they were the ones fighting to stay in it. So where is the shame in that. I could have told you before the match that Munich was the heavy favorite. As for the referee frankly, I don't agree with his red card. If Scz deserves a red then the Munich player also should have been sent off with his penalty. It was a 50-50 red at best, I have seen plenty of instances where that is a yellow and a penalty kick. Either way, the better team won.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hero on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:51 pm

Utd were very close to signing Kroos in January, talks happened but Utd screwed it up with Moyes's vision that was presented to him which Kroos wasn't impressed with and went as far as to tell Woodward he preferred what Man City are putting together.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:52 pm

@Ent wrote:
Olly wrote:
@mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:Find it strange to criticise a playmaker in Ozil, when he's asked to basically be a defender for most of the game

he needs to man up. He has strength and skill. He is the effective senior player. It doesn't matter that he is great at as sits. His game and skills are way above that one strength.

but the main concern was how he played before 10 men. It wasn't good enough

I missed the first 20/25 mins as was at work, so dunno how he was really playing before then  thumbsup 

Bottled his penalty, head went completely and didn't do anythingg of note.

Excpet ran into the box beat the MUnich defender to draw the penalty in the first place, I think he played very well till he stank up the penalty. After that he had a poor match. But his run and close control was what drew the penalty in the first place.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:53 pm

Olly wrote:
@mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:Find it strange to criticise a playmaker in Ozil, when he's asked to basically be a defender for most of the game

he needs to man up. He has strength and skill. He is the effective senior player. It doesn't matter that he is great at as sits. His game and skills are way above that one strength.

but the main concern was how he played before 10 men. It wasn't good enough

I missed the first 20/25 mins as was at work, so dunno how he was really playing before then  thumbsup 

well the irony was arsenal did boss that 20 mins. But it was all about Wilshire. And yes ozil did win the pen, but he also missed it. So overall not a good game.


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:55 pm

SoCal. He just gave the ball away so many times mate..

I would like to see the stats . But I would bet he gave the ball away the most.

and off course if he can't morph into a holding player that doesn't give the ball away, blame Wenger for not taking him off..

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:56 pm

@mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:
@mystiroakey wrote:
Olly wrote:Find it strange to criticise a playmaker in Ozil, when he's asked to basically be a defender for most of the game

he needs to man up. He has strength and skill. He is the effective senior player. It doesn't matter that he is great at as sits. His game and skills are way above that one strength.

but the main concern was how he played before 10 men. It wasn't good enough

I missed the first 20/25 mins as was at work, so dunno how he was really playing before then  thumbsup 

well the irony was arsenal did boss that 20 mins. But it was all about Wilshire. And yes ozil did win the pen, but he also missed it. So overall not a good game.


Wilshire and Ox both where really playing well early on in the match.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Ent on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:57 pm

Don't think anyone expects him to be a holding player but you know some effort and avoiding being brushed aside like he isn't there would be good.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:58 pm

@mystiroakey wrote:SoCal. He just gave the ball away so many times mate..

I would like to see the stats . But I would bet he gave the ball away the most.

and off course if he can't morph into a holding player that doesn't give the ball away, blame Wenger for not taking him off..

Yep, I agree he should have been cut loose when we went to 10 men. But Santi wasn't doing a much better job of keeping them from exploiting that side when he was in there. So whoever you kept on would be a bit of liability with 10 men. Maybe should have subbed Rosicky in sooner but then we had no more subs because we had to bring Fab in. At the end of the day the early red card really screwed things up.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 9:59 pm

@mystiroakey wrote:SoCal. He just gave the ball away so many times mate..

I would like to see the stats . But I would bet he gave the ball away the most.

and off course if he can't morph into a holding player that doesn't give the ball away, blame Wenger for not taking him off..

You do make a good point here Mysti, I was astonished when Ox was taken off ahead of Ozil. If he wasn't injured, then that was a poor sub cos not only was Ozil poor at tracking, but the Ox offered a genuine outlet of pace.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:00 pm

well wenger must have either thought he could- or underestimated Bayern by thinking a play making ONLY player would allow arsenal to score more than they can concede with only 10 men.

He has a great close control. and a great pass. If you can do that around the box, you can also do it around the rest of the pitch!!

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by monty junior on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:00 pm

That Sanogo seemed like a bit of a donkey!

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Ent on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:02 pm

What is arsene smoking they should have been 3 up?

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:03 pm

@monty junior wrote:That Sanogo seemed like a bit of a donkey!

really strange arsernal player isnt he..

not the best first touch,. Strong though and can win the odd ball in a forward position.. BUt just not Arsernal skill level.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:05 pm

@Ent wrote:What is arsene smoking they should have been 3 up?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDZNxO1NrF4

This video answers your question Ent.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:05 pm

Definite pen, could argue for and against on a red which is enough for me to back either decision.

Penalty sums up Ozil's form. Flakey. Got to have a plan if you're gonna do a stuttered run up in case the keeper doesnt care.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:06 pm

@Hero wrote:Utd were very close to signing Kroos in January, talks happened but Utd screwed it up with Moyes's vision that was presented to him which Kroos wasn't impressed with and went as far as to tell Woodward he preferred what Man City are putting together.

Not that hearsay garbage again, your mate knows a guy and you find out but the media don't, hardly believable now is it.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:06 pm

@mystiroakey wrote:
@monty junior wrote:That Sanogo seemed like a bit of a donkey!

really strange arsernal player isnt he..

not the best first touch,. Strong though and can win the odd ball in a forward position.. BUt just not Arsernal skill level.

He is a kid and has been hurt all year, I think he has potential.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:07 pm

@socal1976 wrote:
@mystiroakey wrote:
@monty junior wrote:That Sanogo seemed like a bit of a donkey!

really strange arsernal player isnt he..

not the best first touch,. Strong though and can win the odd ball in a forward position.. BUt just not Arsernal skill level.

He is a kid and has been hurt all year, I think he has potential.

i like him as a player- he just doesn't seem arsernal mould

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:07 pm

@Hammersmith harrier wrote:
@Hero wrote:Utd were very close to signing Kroos in January, talks happened but Utd screwed it up with Moyes's vision that was presented to him which Kroos wasn't impressed with and went as far as to tell Woodward he preferred what Man City are putting together.

Not that hearsay garbage again, your mate knows a guy and you find out but the media don't, hardly believable now is it.

To be fair, how do you think the media do it? The Guardian are two months and a lot of information behind on the Ravel story, but it'll be believed as up to date cos its in print


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:08 pm

@Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Definite pen, could argue for and against on a red which is enough for me to back either decision.

Penalty sums up Ozil's form. Flakey. Got to have a plan if you're gonna do a stuttered run up in case the keeper doesnt care.

I agree with that DZ, it was a 50-50 redcard and it went against us and turned the game. Was a penalty for sure though.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:08 pm

@Dolphin Ziggler wrote:To be fair, how do you think the media do it? The Guardian are two months and a lot of information behind on the Ravel story, but it'll be believed as up to date cos its in print

what?

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:10 pm

Wait, why am I apologising. Just ignore it

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:11 pm

The moment you start giving yellow cards for fouls like that it opens a whole can of worms. It gives keepers licence to commit cynical fouls in the hope there's inconsistency.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Ent on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:14 pm

@Hammersmith harrier wrote:The moment you start giving yellow cards for fouls like that it opens a whole can of worms. It gives keepers licence to commit cynical fouls in the hope there's inconsistency.

Exactly, the red card for goal scoring opportunity is a rubbish rule but you'll see keepers and defenders taking down strikers all the time in the hope they miss the penalty if it is changed.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:15 pm

@Hammersmith harrier wrote:The moment you start giving yellow cards for fouls like that it opens a whole can of worms. It gives keepers licence to commit cynical fouls in the hope there's inconsistency.


I cant really buy that it would make a huge difference- giving away the pen is such a huge disadvantage anyway.

Its all about reffs interpretation.. thats all.

If its dangerous or cynical- you get sent off, if its close to a 50/50 challenge but the goalie misses and clips the attacker a yellow.

personally i would much rather see a sin bin situation with all bad challenges.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:16 pm

@Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Wait, why am I apologising. Just ignore it


what ravel story?

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:18 pm

What's the disadvantage of conceding a penalty when you've denied an almost certain goal?

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hero on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:19 pm

@Hammersmith harrier wrote:
@Hero wrote:Utd were very close to signing Kroos in January, talks happened but Utd screwed it up with Moyes's vision that was presented to him which Kroos wasn't impressed with and went as far as to tell Woodward he preferred what Man City are putting together.

Not that hearsay garbage again, your mate knows a guy and you find out but the media don't, hardly believable now is it.

No, my mate was involved in the creation of the video package that was sent to Kroos's agent. The meeting was Woodward and Jonathan Rigby on a conference call with the agent and they both emerged fuming after the snub. Rigby is my mate's direct boss.

Unlike the tabloid sources there I back it up with actual names.


Last edited by Hero on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:21 pm

@Hammersmith harrier wrote:What's the disadvantage of conceding a penalty when you've denied an almost certain goal?

well if its an almost certain goal - most of the time that would be counted as a professional /cynical foul and a clear red.

in this case any goalie would have gone out- the majority of players do not have robbins speed and skills so he may have got to the ball first..

as said, dangerous or cynical- off- close to 50,50 - standard attempts at tackles - yellow

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hero on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:22 pm

Oh and a certain ex Dortmund player has been sending pics of himself in the bath to one of the girls in Utd's marketing department.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:23 pm

@Hero wrote:Oh and A certain ex Dortmund player's been sending pics of himself in the bath to one of the girls in Utd's marketing department.

LOL.. dirty dog

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:23 pm

haha- i got the actual players name in my quote hero. You cant go back on it now!!!!

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Duty281 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:23 pm

Arsenal had a good first ten minutes; loud atmosphere and they looked dangerous - Wilshere was actually playing well, for the first time in yonks. Oxlade dangerous. Sangogo getting a few good touches.

Then a rubbish pen (would have worked against Hart though!) is saved (why's Ozil taking them?) and Arsenal lose momentum.

Pressure builds. Clear pen. Clear red. Brief respite.

Good effort to hold out by Arsenal, already hindered by two first half subs being made, but they eventually run out of legs. Some players, Cazorla and Ozil particularly, lacking in the workrate you need.

Bayern, so good with the ball, even better than Barcelona last night, eventually break through. Twice.

Tie not over. It's Everest-like for Arsenal though to come back.

No complaints with the ref. Well done Bayern - better crossing would have led to a landslide win.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hero on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:25 pm

@mystiroakey wrote:haha- i got the actual players name in my quote hero. You cant go back on it now!!!!

Yeah I know lol, thought I better give it a bit of ambiguity, I can though edit! Wink

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Duty281 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:27 pm

How will I ever crack that code? laughing

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:28 pm

@Hero wrote:
@Hammersmith harrier wrote:
@Hero wrote:Utd were very close to signing Kroos in January, talks happened but Utd screwed it up with Moyes's vision that was presented to him which Kroos wasn't impressed with and went as far as to tell Woodward he preferred what Man City are putting together.

Not that hearsay garbage again, your mate knows a guy and you find out but the media don't, hardly believable now is it.

No, my mate was involved in the creation of the video package that was sent to Kroos's agent. The meeting was Woodward and Jonathan Rigby on a conference call with the agent and they both emerged fuming after the snub. Rigby is my mate's direct boss.

Unlike the tabloid sources there I back it up with actual names.

Quote names all you want I still don't buy it, why would somebody so close to transfer dealings reveal such information.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Duty281 on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:30 pm

@Hammersmith harrier wrote:
@Hero wrote:
@Hammersmith harrier wrote:
@Hero wrote:Utd were very close to signing Kroos in January, talks happened but Utd screwed it up with Moyes's vision that was presented to him which Kroos wasn't impressed with and went as far as to tell Woodward he preferred what Man City are putting together.

Not that hearsay garbage again, your mate knows a guy and you find out but the media don't, hardly believable now is it.

No, my mate was involved in the creation of the video package that was sent to Kroos's agent. The meeting was Woodward and Jonathan Rigby on a conference call with the agent and they both emerged fuming after the snub. Rigby is my mate's direct boss.

Unlike the tabloid sources there I back it up with actual names.

Quote names all you want I still don't buy it, why would somebody so close to transfer dealings reveal such information.

A quick check on Linkedin shows that the names check out, at the very least.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hero on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:31 pm

Because I'm a Utd fan and I grill him for information as I hope Utd get some decent players in.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hero on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:33 pm

Nick actually supports City as well so he enjoys telling me when Utd feck up a transfer and especially enjoyed Kroos's agent mentioning City.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:34 pm

It still doesn't stack up to me Hero, it's basically an admittance of tapping a player up.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:35 pm

so whats the news on Rooney?

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by NickisBHAFC on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:41 pm

Listened to game on Radio and just seen the goals.

2 great goals.

Monreal to blame, always thought he was dung. Should offer Chesney a big apology. 

Both penalty's laughable, Ozil really is overrated, was a passenger at Madrid. Think Couthino of Liverpool has been better this season. 

Sounded like Arsenal battled hard, but lets face it even with 11 they never stood a chance of winning this tie. 

All about, Athleticooooooooooooooooo, Athleticoooooooooooooooooooo. Buzzing for them!!!!

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:42 pm

"but lets face it even with 11 they never stood a chance of winning this tie. "


you needed to watch the game then mate- they were well in it

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Lumbering_Jack on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:45 pm

Not sure how anyone who has at least one functioning eye can suggest that it wasn't a red card. It's such a blatantly obvious decision.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by monty junior on Wed 19 Feb 2014, 10:46 pm

Athletico were lucky as hell, Courtois kept Milan from being out of sight in that first half, he's something else!

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Re: CL Last 16

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