CL Last 16

by Liam Tue 18 Feb 2014 - 13:01

First topic message reminder :

Some cracking games this week, Barca/City and Bayern/Arsenal. Can't see past Bayern and Barca wins. Pellegrini has said he'll attack Barca and I say do so at your peril. This may not be the Barca side from 2010-2012 but its still a very very good side with players in form currently, namely Fabregas, Sanchez and with a returning Messi back in the goals. There's a chance that if they go in with two strikers that they could get torn to pieces. I think against Barca you have to play a 5 man midfield. They keep the ball too well and will just pass their way through you.

by Hammersmith harrier Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 20:46

I agree C and R, all the champions league does is make the rich teams richer, lets be honest here without outside investment Chelsea and City would not have been anywhere near winning the league.

Teams like Celtic deserve the chance to expand and grow, they rarely get embarrassed and Parkhead is not an easy place to go and win. Do we with our likely 7th placed finish deserve to be in it next just because of who we are, hell no and it's no different for any other team.

by CFCNick Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 21:49

If teams like Portsmouth and Wigan got in it'd weaken our coefficient and we'd drop to only having 2/3 spots.

by Hammersmith harrier Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 21:59

I can't say that would bother me too much Nick, for too long now the fourth placed team have been scrounging off of Man Utd and Chelsea's coefficient.

by Ent Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 22:06

It's fine the way it is really.

With todays heavily loaded squads the days of these borderline sides having top players and making an impression on the tournament are gone. I don't see the point in letting sides from even further down the rankings in.

Sociedad and Marsielle got 1 point and 0 points this year and are from major leagues, some of the minnows did a lot better than this.

by compelling and rich Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 22:46

ent- sociedad were a team scraping through lower places that were arguing shouldnt be in anyway. marsielle i think finished second but miles behind the leaders and are currently nowhere in the league this season. there not adding anything to the champions league that the cup winners wouldnt

by socal1976 Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 22:51

GSC wrote:I'm more interested in seeing the best 32 teams to be brutally honest.

Totally agree, I have bee called an elitist because I actually would want to see the best teams regardless of nationality playing it out. It could be made fair as we could make the lower finishing teams from Spain, England, Italy, and Germany qualify against the best teams from the smaller leagues. I mean lets be honest there are champions of smaller leagues who would struggle to finish in the top half of the epl or not get relegated. This competition should be about finding the best team in Europe and about the best playing each other in mouth watering ties.

by Ent Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 22:51

There has been a discussion around stopping the minnows entering and extending the major leagues placing.

As for the cup sides entering, it's pointless. Either they will be competitive and be in the top 4 anyway or they will be a midtable/smaller side and lose every game.

by compelling and rich Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:05

arsenal fans pro fourth place going into champions league, shock! Erm

by Ent Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:09

socal1976 wrote:
GSC wrote:I'm more interested in seeing the best 32 teams to be brutally honest.

Totally agree, I have bee called an elitist because I actually would want to see the best teams regardless of nationality playing it out. It could be made fair as we could make the lower finishing teams from Spain, England, Italy, and Germany qualify against the best teams from the smaller leagues. I mean lets be honest there are champions of smaller leagues who would struggle to finish in the top half of the epl or not get relegated. This competition should be about finding the best team in Europe and about the best playing each other in mouth watering ties.

The top 13 leagues in Europe get entrants to the competition for their champions. The 13th ranked country is currently Denmark. The team from the 14th ranked nation beat Chelsea twice this season.

They are there on merit already as your associations ranking depends on the performances of entrants from the previous 5 years.

Who would decide the top 32 teams, how would they be ranked? Should we go back to the old european cup ways - after all if you aren't the best in your league how can you be the best in europe?

The best team in europe is found in this competition, letting in Everton and Spurs instead of Pizen or Austria Vien won't change anything.

by socal1976 Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:34

Ent wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
GSC wrote:I'm more interested in seeing the best 32 teams to be brutally honest.

Totally agree, I have bee called an elitist because I actually would want to see the best teams regardless of nationality playing it out. It could be made fair as we could make the lower finishing teams from Spain, England, Italy, and Germany qualify against the best teams from the smaller leagues. I mean lets be honest there are champions of smaller leagues who would struggle to finish in the top half of the epl or not get relegated. This competition should be about finding the best team in Europe and about the best playing each other in mouth watering ties.

The top 13 leagues in Europe get entrants to the competition for their champions. The 13th ranked country is currently Denmark. The team from the 14th ranked nation beat Chelsea twice this season.

They are there on merit already as your associations ranking depends on the performances of entrants from the previous 5 years.

Who would decide the top 32 teams, how would they be ranked? Should we go back to the old european cup ways - after all if you aren't the best in your league how can you be the best in europe?

The best team in europe is found in this competition, letting in Everton and Spurs instead of Pizen or Austria Vien won't change anything.

So if you don't win the European title maybe you can't be the World champion either. Different competitions with a different format. I mean Brazil didn't win the south American title and rarely does, does that disqualify them from being world champions if they happen to win the world cup. I don't mind the current format and it is merit based not elitist. If we are putting forward ideas I would prefer the best 32 teams in Europe or whatever the number is if they decide to expand the format.

by socal1976 Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:36

compelling and rich wrote:arsenal fans pro fourth place going into champions league, shock!

And we have performed damn well in Europe. We always make it to the knockout round and have made a final, and have also taken big scalps against pretty much any of the top sides you could think of in the champion's league. Arsenal's entrance into the tournament in no way has diminished the quality of the football played or the quality of the competition.

by monty junior Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:46

GSC wrote:At the risk of being elitist, I'd support more teams from England, Spain, Germany, Italy etc getting in at the expense of minnows like Scotland for the CL.

Not really a great advertisement for a European Cup though is it, how is it going to develop the game around Europe if 6 or 7 teams from all the largest countries play. Celtic and Rangers have won European trophies in the past and beaten a list of Europe's top teams, have some of the best atmospheres in Europe, hardly minnows.

by Ent Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:47

socal1976 wrote:
Ent wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
GSC wrote:I'm more interested in seeing the best 32 teams to be brutally honest.

Totally agree, I have bee called an elitist because I actually would want to see the best teams regardless of nationality playing it out. It could be made fair as we could make the lower finishing teams from Spain, England, Italy, and Germany qualify against the best teams from the smaller leagues. I mean lets be honest there are champions of smaller leagues who would struggle to finish in the top half of the epl or not get relegated. This competition should be about finding the best team in Europe and about the best playing each other in mouth watering ties.

The top 13 leagues in Europe get entrants to the competition for their champions. The 13th ranked country is currently Denmark. The team from the 14th ranked nation beat Chelsea twice this season.

They are there on merit already as your associations ranking depends on the performances of entrants from the previous 5 years.

Who would decide the top 32 teams, how would they be ranked? Should we go back to the old european cup ways - after all if you aren't the best in your league how can you be the best in europe?

The best team in europe is found in this competition, letting in Everton and Spurs instead of Pizen or Austria Vien won't change anything.

So if you don't win the European title maybe you can't be the World champion either. Different competitions with a different format. I mean Brazil didn't win the south American title and rarely does, does that disqualify them from being world champions if they happen to win the world cup. I don't mind the current format and it is merit based not elitist. If we are putting forward ideas I would prefer the best 32 teams in Europe or whatever the number is if they decide to expand the format.

That point was a criticism of your suggestion - how do you decide the best 32 teams in europe? The top 6 leagues are Spain, England, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal. Spain's 4th place team got 1 point, Frances 2nd got 0, both portugals teams got knocked out in the group stage.

Football isn't played on paper or in people's heads - City, Dortmund psg etc wouldn't have had co-efficients putting them in the top 32 teams to enter the competition.

The current way is fair, if you can't qualify you aren't one of the best teams in Europe - pretty straightforward.

And Brazil have won 4 of the last 6 copa americas.

by Ent Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:47

monty junior wrote:
GSC wrote:At the risk of being elitist, I'd support more teams from England, Spain, Germany, Italy etc getting in at the expense of minnows like Scotland for the CL.

Not really a great advertisement for a European Cup though is it, how is it going to develop the game around Europe if 6 or 7 teams from all the largest countries play. Celtic and Rangers have won European trophies in the past and beaten a list of Europe's top teams, have some of the best atmospheres in Europe, hardly minnows.

Just decide it on paper and do away with the competition.

Bayern win again, woo.

by skyeman Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:48

Can i just say. Why do we have the constant British ex pros who come out with "British clubs are not good enough to win in Europe" and then they win!

Why do they do it? just for the sake of it?

They just look silly.

by Ent Thu 20 Mar 2014 - 23:54

A lot of the time they aren't really good enough, though the league averages a win every 5 years which is pretty decent imo.

I don't get why they are surprised, it is very tough to win- Madrid haven't won it in 11 years, bayern hadn't won in 11 prior to last year. Barcelona went 12 years without winning it.

by monty junior Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 0:14

Ent wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
Ent wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
GSC wrote:I'm more interested in seeing the best 32 teams to be brutally honest.

Totally agree, I have bee called an elitist because I actually would want to see the best teams regardless of nationality playing it out. It could be made fair as we could make the lower finishing teams from Spain, England, Italy, and Germany qualify against the best teams from the smaller leagues. I mean lets be honest there are champions of smaller leagues who would struggle to finish in the top half of the epl or not get relegated. This competition should be about finding the best team in Europe and about the best playing each other in mouth watering ties.

The top 13 leagues in Europe get entrants to the competition for their champions. The 13th ranked country is currently Denmark. The team from the 14th ranked nation beat Chelsea twice this season.

They are there on merit already as your associations ranking depends on the performances of entrants from the previous 5 years.

Who would decide the top 32 teams, how would they be ranked? Should we go back to the old european cup ways - after all if you aren't the best in your league how can you be the best in europe?

The best team in europe is found in this competition, letting in Everton and Spurs instead of Pizen or Austria Vien won't change anything.

So if you don't win the European title maybe you can't be the World champion either. Different competitions with a different format. I mean Brazil didn't win the south American title and rarely does, does that disqualify them from being world champions if they happen to win the world cup. I don't mind the current format and it is merit based not elitist. If we are putting forward ideas I would prefer the best 32 teams in Europe or whatever the number is if they decide to expand the format.

That point was a criticism of your suggestion - how do you decide the best 32 teams in europe? The top 6 leagues are Spain, England, Germany, Italy, France, Portugal. Spain's 4th place team got 1 point, Frances 2nd got 0, both portugals teams got knocked out in the group stage.

Football isn't played on paper or in people's heads - City, Dortmund psg etc wouldn't have had co-efficients putting them in the top 32 teams to enter the competition.

The current way is fair, if you can't qualify you aren't one of the best teams in Europe - pretty straightforward.

And Brazil have won 4 of the last 6 copa americas.

Exactly, Inter Milan are 14th in the club coefficient ranking yet finished 9th in Serie A last season. Just a complete stab in the dark who is top 32.

by skyeman Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 0:59

I just get pi**ed off with the likes of Robbie Savage who say we are behind the rest of European football by 10 years, which was said in 98 by ex pros who at the time said we were behind the rest of Europe by a mile and then United won and similarly others said the same before United and Chelsea won again.

Anything for the press!

And Hansen "kids won't win anything" Is it not best to just give a guess? Much like the rest of us?

After all. I did not think Man City would win the league this year Very Happy

Sport is sport, and the unexpected can always happen.

by compelling and rich Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 1:14

socal1976 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:arsenal fans pro fourth place going into champions league, shock!

And we have performed damn well in Europe. We always make it to the knockout round and have made a final, and have also taken big scalps against pretty much any of the top sides you could think of in the champion's league. Arsenal's entrance into the tournament in no way has diminished the quality of the football played or the quality of the competition.

arsenal haven't been a force in europe since 06, decent team who get through there groups as a top coefficient and always get knocked out soon as they meet the first top team. not sure who these scalps are who you are talking about. what top class teams have you knocked out in europe any time recently

by CFCNick Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 10:50

socal1976 wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:arsenal fans pro fourth place going into champions league, shock!

And we have performed damn well in Europe. We always make it to the knockout round and have made a final, and have also taken big scalps against pretty much any of the top sides you could think of in the champion's league. Arsenal's entrance into the tournament in no way has diminished the quality of the football played or the quality of the competition.

So your ambitions and achievements for Arsenal now equal those of Celtic?

by GSC Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 10:58

To be fair to Arsenal, they drawn the best team the last 4 years. Not Olympiakos or Galatasaray

by mystiroakey Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:02

Arsenal should have topped this years group- no excuses this time around for me.

Citeh can be given some sympathy because there coefficient is still so low so there were in pot 3 and got bayern- but even then could have still topped the group.

In a couple of years time even with last 16 exits citeh will be bumped up as the club coefficient uses the last 5 years to rate the teams, so will start getting better groups..

However they still can be criticized for not given Barca a better game..

by Fernando Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:16

Barca vs Atletico
Real Madrid vs Dortmund
PSG vs Chelsea
Man Utd vs Bayern

by mystiroakey Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:17

is that the real draw Nando?

by Fernando Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:18

Yeah that's the draw Mysti

by GSC Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:18

Daresay United fans would rather have lost

Barca, Real, Bayern and PSG I think

by mystiroakey Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:18

Cracking Tie for chelsea.

Man U are dooooooooooomed

by mystiroakey Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:20

Chelsea away first is a good sign..

Allways helps out

by Champagne_Socialist Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:41

IBRAHIMOVIC will tear chelsea apart.

by mystiroakey Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:42

Might as well say Hazard will tear them apart tbh

by Champagne_Socialist Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:43

I think Chelsea will win but ibrahimovic wil give them nightmares. i can see him scoring 3/4 goals over 2 legs

by CFCNick Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:50

Ibra will facing the best defence in Europe though. Not Olympiacos, Anderlecht, Benfica or Leverkusen or any subpar Ligue 1 team.

Usually it's the lesser dangerous players that score against us anyway.

by compelling and rich Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:52

I dont mind bayern. Didnt really expect us to win it and if you are to win it you need to beat the best teams along the way. Plus cant beat the feeling of the massive champions league games at OT

If we get spanked over two legs it may be the end of moyes. I think we should give them a game, we never really get battered in knock phase by anyone although that was with fergie in charge

by mystiroakey Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:53

Its going to be an amazing tie.

Chelsea will need to go at PSG from the first leg as they will need an away goal or two. PSG are an attack only team.. So its going to be a cracking first game.

Dependant on that first game result we will see chelsea playing a certain way needed to progress

by compelling and rich Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:55

Expect chelsea to beat psg. Zlatan has been scintillating recently but normally against weak oppostion in a very weak league. His true test is now in the big games

by CFCNick Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:56

First leg in Paris on the 2nd. 2nd leg on the 8th. Tempted to go to the home game. Already going to the Stoke game on the 5th.

by MIG Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 11:58

Chelsea v PSG is definitely the hardest game to call. Either way whoever wins will go out in the semis I reckon as they'll be up against one of Real, Barca or Bayern.

by mystiroakey Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 12:00

MIG

if chelsea get Real it will be billed Mourinhio v Real as he knows the side so well .

If they get Barca it will be billed as Chelsea v Barca as chelsea rarely ever lose to them.

I can certainly see another chelsea v Bayern final

by MIG Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 12:03

I wouldn't put it past them, I'm not saying its impossible but I think we'll be seeing a Bayern v Barca or Real final. Hopefully the latter.

by **Crimey** Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 12:07

Really strong last 8, the weakest tie would have been one involving United and one of Atletico Madrid or Dortmund which would have still been a really good tie.

Moyes will be immensely worried about facing Munich, it could be embarrassing.

Think the semi-finals will be:

Chelsea
Bayern Munich
Real Madrid
Barcelona

Hoping for:

Chelsea-Madrid

Bayern-Barca

For a Madrid-Bayern final.

by NickisBHAFC Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 12:08

Congrats to Bayern on getting to the Semi Finals.

Can see Chelsea, Barca and Real all getting through.

by Champagne_Socialist Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 12:08

I reckon athletico will beat barca.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 12:13

I don't understand why they draw again for the semis. Well obviously it's to squeeze more money out of the show but it's too many.

Unhappy to see a Spanish team play Atletico. Barca plays Real this Sunday in the League and that might well have an impact on how Barca plays in the CL. If they lose then they're 7 behind Madrid and might just focus on the CL. I much prefer a win for them this Sunday. Gets Atletico level again and makes Barca hungrier in the League 1 point behind and tires them more out for the CL.

by CFCNick Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 13:02

Don't they draw the semis with the quarters anymore? That sucks.

by whocares Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 13:30

CFCNick wrote:Don't they draw the semis with the quarters anymore? That sucks.

Yeah big time. next they will find a way to make a draw for the final !

by Ent Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 13:38

GSC wrote:To be fair to Arsenal, they drawn the best team the last 4 years. Not Olympiakos or Galatasaray

Need to win their group.

by CFCNick Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 13:51

Cheapest ticket for Chelsea v PSG is £55. Luckily for me they go on sale on pay day.

by GSC Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 15:39

While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

by Soldier_Of_Fortune Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 16:05

Fernando wrote:Man Utd vs Bayern

by Champagne_Socialist Fri 21 Mar 2014 - 16:09

GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

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