CL Last 16

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CL Last 16

Post by Liam on Tue 18 Feb 2014, 1:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

Some cracking games this week, Barca/City and Bayern/Arsenal. Can't see past Bayern and Barca wins. Pellegrini has said he'll attack Barca and I say do so at your peril. This may not be the Barca side from 2010-2012 but its still a very very good side with players in form currently, namely Fabregas, Sanchez and with a returning Messi back in the goals. There's a chance that if they go in with two strikers that they could get torn to pieces. I think against Barca you have to play a 5 man midfield. They keep the ball too well and will just pass their way through you.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Ent on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 4:40 pm

You didn't finish joint top, you finished second.

Just needed to avoid defeat in Napoli to win the group.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 4:45 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

I got knocked out of the champions league with 12 points on Football manager  steam 

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 4:46 pm

Just needing to avoid losing in Naples.

No big deal then
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hibbz on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 4:52 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

I thought this sounded a bit odd so I looked and of the 8 groups only in Arsenal and Chelsea's did 12pts top the group so in fact where you say 80% what you mean is 14% although given Arsenal's GD they would have still finished 2nd to Chelsea in that group.

Referee's, injuries and simple mathematics all against poor old Arsenal fans.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 5:45 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

I got knocked out of the champions league with 12 points on Football manager  steam 

80%?  Headscratch 

All the other group winners, bar Chelsea, had more than 12. Although you did have a tough group this year, the home result to Dortmund cost you.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by socal1976 on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 5:57 pm

Good luck to United they will need it. But anything can happen, penalties, redcards, odd goals against the run of play. They will have a tough time keeping the ball and will have to hope to hit them on the counter. Plus if you had to pick a weakness in Bayern it would be their CBs, they can be forced into some bad mistakes at times. Although they aren't poor certainly not the strongest part of their side.

It has got to be looking like Chelsea, Barca, Real, and Bayern in the semis. And I think if people were going to pick the 4 sides that should duke it out for the European cup it would be those 4.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:35 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Looks like Van Persie is out for the rest of the season

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26686933

van persie out for 6 weeks, basically the rest of the season.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:37 pm

Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

I thought this sounded a bit odd so I looked and of the 8 groups only in Arsenal and Chelsea's did 12pts top the group so in fact where you say 80% what you mean is 14% although given Arsenal's GD they would have still finished 2nd to Chelsea in that group.

Referee's, injuries and simple mathematics all against poor old Arsenal fans.

80% is right, If you look at the second placed team only 2 teams had 12 points, so to top the group 12 points would be fine in all but 2 groups.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:37 pm

How ironic

his first 9/10 game all season and its all over for him..

gutting

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by monty junior on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:39 pm

I'd rather not Chelsea, they bore me to death, in fact just any Mourinho side in Europe does, he even almost managed it with Real Madrid and all their world class players. PSG and Athletico would be a nice change, plus they have some really quality forwards.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by monty junior on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:41 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:Looks like Van Persie is out for the rest of the season

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26686933

van persie out for 6 weeks, basically the rest of the season.

If it's anything more Holland might as well not go to the world cup, two of their best players missing.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:42 pm

mystiroakey wrote:How ironic

his first 9/10 game all season and its all over for him..

gutting

yea season over for him very bad for united

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:46 pm

so whats the plan for united then- mata in behind rooney and welbeck. or rooney back into midfield(, mata classic no 10 and welbeck in front, junazi on the left.

tough decisions. especially seeing how good welbeck is on the left and how good rooney is in the no 10

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hibbz on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:48 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

I thought this sounded a bit odd so I looked and of the 8 groups only in Arsenal and Chelsea's did 12pts top the group so in fact where you say 80% what you mean is 14% although given Arsenal's GD they would have still finished 2nd to Chelsea in that group.

Referee's, injuries and simple mathematics all against poor old Arsenal fans.

80% is right, If you look at the second placed team only 2 teams had 12 points, so to top the group 12 points would be fine in all but 2 groups.

Okay, I can at least just about see what you're getting at now but were the top team in each of those groups to not score the points they did another team in the group has to score more meaning 12 points is unlikely to be enough to finish top so your logic is still badly flawed.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:50 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

I thought this sounded a bit odd so I looked and of the 8 groups only in Arsenal and Chelsea's did 12pts top the group so in fact where you say 80% what you mean is 14% although given Arsenal's GD they would have still finished 2nd to Chelsea in that group.

Referee's, injuries and simple mathematics all against poor old Arsenal fans.

80% is right, If you look at the second placed team only 2 teams had 12 points, so to top the group 12 points would be fine in all but 2 groups.

Eh, thats an example of fudging stats to suit your argument.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:52 pm

Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

I thought this sounded a bit odd so I looked and of the 8 groups only in Arsenal and Chelsea's did 12pts top the group so in fact where you say 80% what you mean is 14% although given Arsenal's GD they would have still finished 2nd to Chelsea in that group.

Referee's, injuries and simple mathematics all against poor old Arsenal fans.

80% is right, If you look at the second placed team only 2 teams had 12 points, so to top the group 12 points would be fine in all but 2 groups.

Okay, I can at least just about see what you're getting at now but were the top team in each of those groups to not score the points they did another team in the group has to score more meaning 12 points is unlikely to be enough to finish top so your logic is still badly flawed.

Argument is not badly flawed, taking the points as they stand 12 points would be enough to top the groups.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:55 pm

12 points would be enough to finish top relative to teams that finished 2nd, but not relative to teams that topped their groups. Which one is more relevant is up for debate.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:58 pm

GSC wrote:12 points would be enough to finish top relative to teams that finished 2nd, but not relative to teams that topped their groups. Which one is more relevant is up for debate.

well each group only has 4 teams so taking away the top team and replacing them with Arsenal would leave arsenal top with the points we had. That is the argument.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hibbz on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 6:59 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

I thought this sounded a bit odd so I looked and of the 8 groups only in Arsenal and Chelsea's did 12pts top the group so in fact where you say 80% what you mean is 14% although given Arsenal's GD they would have still finished 2nd to Chelsea in that group.

Referee's, injuries and simple mathematics all against poor old Arsenal fans.

80% is right, If you look at the second placed team only 2 teams had 12 points, so to top the group 12 points would be fine in all but 2 groups.

Okay, I can at least just about see what you're getting at now but were the top team in each of those groups to not score the points they did another team in the group has to score more meaning 12 points is unlikely to be enough to finish top so your logic is still badly flawed.

Argument is not badly flawed, taking the points as they stand 12 points would be enough to top the groups.

Taking the points as they stand 12 points was enough to top 2 groups or 25%. If you take the points off one team to suit your argument you've got to add them to another team who will probably then end up with more than 12.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by kingraf on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:00 pm

Surprised no one else has mentioned it... but Luis Figo looks a helluva lot like Charles Sheen
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:01 pm

And replacing Arsenal with the 2nd placed teams, which makes more sense as Arsenal finished 2nd in their group, would leave them 2nd. Its a flawed argument made to back your point.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:02 pm

36 pts is off course the maximum pts you can have - so that needs to be taken into consideration- no draws happened in that group.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:05 pm

GSC wrote:And replacing Arsenal with the 2nd placed teams, which makes more sense as Arsenal finished 2nd in their group, would leave them 2nd. Its a flawed argument made to back your point.

The argument is that Arsenal would top most other groups if you replaced the top team from other groups with Arsenal. The argument is that Arsena's points tally of 12 would be sufficient to finish above nearly every other 2nd placed team in the other groups.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:07 pm

And the argument is flawed for a number of reasons already addressed in this topic.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:09 pm

GSC wrote:And the argument is flawed for a number of reasons already addressed in this topic.

the argument is not flawed.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:11 pm

For one thing you're taking a greater proportion of points out of groups than you're putting back in.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hibbz on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:11 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:And replacing Arsenal with the 2nd placed teams, which makes more sense as Arsenal finished 2nd in their group, would leave them 2nd. Its a flawed argument made to back your point.

The argument is that Arsenal would top most other groups if you replaced the top team from other groups with Arsenal. The argument is that Arsena's points tally of 12 would be sufficient to finish above nearly every other 2nd placed team in the other groups.

But as we're trying to point out you can't do that because the total points scored won't add up to the total wins/draws within that group.

Without looking at previous years I'd say 12pts would have a team finishing 2nd more often than finishing first.

Anyway I'm off to start a thread about the CL Last 8 so that we no longer have to discuss Arsenal.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:12 pm

GSC wrote:For one thing you're taking a greater proportion of points out of groups than you're putting back in.

makes no difference to my argument.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:13 pm

Then unfortunately your argument is worthless

Have a nice day  thumbsup
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Champagne_Socialist on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:13 pm

Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:And replacing Arsenal with the 2nd placed teams, which makes more sense as Arsenal finished 2nd in their group, would leave them 2nd. Its a flawed argument made to back your point.

The argument is that Arsenal would top most other groups if you replaced the top team from other groups with Arsenal. The argument is that Arsena's points tally of 12 would be sufficient to finish above nearly every other 2nd placed team in the other groups.

But as we're trying to point out you can't do that because the total points scored won't add up to the total wins/draws within that group.

Without looking at previous years I'd say 12pts would have a team finishing 2nd more often than finishing first.

Anyway I'm off to start a thread about the CL Last 8 so that we no longer have to discuss Arsenal.

makes no difference to my argument which is to replace top teams with arsenal to see how arsenal would do in other groups.

Your argument is now a hypothetical argument about how arsenal would do against the other teams in the other groups

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hibbz on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:22 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Hibbz wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:And replacing Arsenal with the 2nd placed teams, which makes more sense as Arsenal finished 2nd in their group, would leave them 2nd. Its a flawed argument made to back your point.

The argument is that Arsenal would top most other groups if you replaced the top team from other groups with Arsenal. The argument is that Arsena's points tally of 12 would be sufficient to finish above nearly every other 2nd placed team in the other groups.

But as we're trying to point out you can't do that because the total points scored won't add up to the total wins/draws within that group.

Without looking at previous years I'd say 12pts would have a team finishing 2nd more often than finishing first.

Anyway I'm off to start a thread about the CL Last 8 so that we no longer have to discuss Arsenal.

makes no difference to my argument which is to replace top teams with arsenal to see how arsenal would do in other groups.

Your argument is now a hypothetical argument about how arsenal would do against the other teams in the other groups

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
GSC wrote:While I do agree, their group this season was certainly no pushover. Can't remember other seasons

Last season we messed up but this year we had the hardest group and finished joint top with 12 points. 12 points in 80% of other groups = 1st place.

The above in bold was your original statement. It's incorrect.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by mystiroakey on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:26 pm

Arsenal had the group in the palm of there hands and feicked it up- end of story.

I can admit that and I everyone knows that Arsenal are a club I rate and like over any other bar the Mighty eagles.


Wenger was worrying more about the next fixture(v citeh) in the final game v napoli- and that cost them!

All they needed was to lose by a goal and they had topped it


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by J.Benson II on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:30 pm

Some good games.
Real will take revenge on Dortmund.
Barca - Athletico and Chelsea - PSG are gonna be close to call.
United, big underdogs against Munich although I think they'll fare better than people think.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:44 pm

Dior has been owned once again, why would you replace the top teams when they are the ones Arsenal should be striving to be ahead of.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Guest on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 7:57 pm

The Utd/Bayern tie may be somewhat competitive but the game in Germany will be a cakewalk for Bayern.

I think PSG will cause Chelsea some real problems. Could go all the way that one.

Fancy Barca and Real to progress in the other two. Put a gun to my head and I'm going with Real to win the whole thing.

Semi's should be tasty.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by The Special Juan on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 8:36 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
Fernando wrote:Man Utd vs Bayern




Who did Liverpool draw?
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Guest on Fri 21 Mar 2014, 8:38 pm

The Special Juan wrote:
Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
Fernando wrote:Man Utd vs Bayern




Who did Liverpool draw?

Fighting talk  Laugh 

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by compelling and rich on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 11:30 am

so anybody give us a chance tonight?

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 11:51 am

I think you have absolutely no chance what so ever. Barring an act of god

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by compelling and rich on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 11:55 am

me neither but was hoping somebody would give us some hope, something which your not very good at

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:07 pm

Chelsea beat Barcelona in 2012 and Liverpool beat Barcelona in 2007 so there's at least some hope there.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Ent on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:12 pm

Yeah but neither of those sides were as bad as us and could defend competently.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:15 pm

The Liverpool team in 2005 was far worse than we are right now Ent, we need to start using our attacking players to try and hurt the top teams rather than failing to contain them.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by CFCNick on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:17 pm

As bad as we were in 2012 we were a lot better than the current United side. I don't think the current United side would have been able to comeback against Napoli the way we did, still gives me goosebumps of the scream of "Ivanovic!" extra time, and I don't think the United side could pull off the 1-0 win in Benfica but would beat them at OT.

I do think United, like Chelsea, have Barca's number on home soil but would the current United team come back from 2-0 down with 10 men and Ramires at right back and Bosingwa at centre back in the Nou Camp?


Last edited by CFCNick on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:21 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:18 pm

Man for man only Rooney would make Bayerns team. The best midfield in Europe against Carrick, Cleverley and Fellaini
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Ent on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:22 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The Liverpool team in 2005 was far worse than we are right now Ent, we need to start using our attacking players to try and hurt the top teams rather than failing to contain them.

At least that side had 11 mobile players.


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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:33 pm

They didn't though did they Ent; Sissoko, Carragher, Alonso, Finnan and Kuyt weren't the most mobile of players.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by GSC on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 12:43 pm

The only thing Kuyt did was run.

You need a lot of luck, United under Moyes havent had that so far.
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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 1:01 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:They didn't though did they Ent; Sissoko, Carragher, Alonso, Finnan and Kuyt weren't the most mobile of players.

Sissoko, Finnan and Kuyt Laugh

Sissoko had a bottomlist pit of stamina as did Kuyt. Finnan also up and down the right constantly, very underrated player.

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Re: CL Last 16

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 01 Apr 2014, 1:02 pm

Having work rate and being mobile are two different things, mobility includes pace something they all lacked.

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Re: CL Last 16

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