FBI suspected Ali vs Liston was fixed?

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FBI suspected Ali vs Liston was fixed? Empty FBI suspected Ali vs Liston was fixed?

Post by Pedro147 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 2:02 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-2567373/FBI-suspected-Alis-legendary-1964-victory-Liston-FIXED-documents-reveal.html



Fifty years on from the man then known as Cassius Clay beating Sonny Liston to become heavyweight champion of the world for the first time, new documents have come to light which reveal that the FBI long suspected that the shock result was really a fix.

The fight between reigning champion Liston and brash young upstart Clay - later renamed Muhammad Ali – took place on February 25, 1964, in Miami

Clay, just 22, entered the ring as a 7-1 underdog, but pulled off a shock victory which laid the foundations for his glittering career to follow.

The memorable match, named the fourth-greatest sports moment of the 20th century by Sports Illustrated, ended when Liston quit after the seventh round and Clay started jumping and waving his hands, yelling ‘I’m the champ!’

Now documents released to The Washington Times under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that the FBI suspected the fight may have been fixed by a Las Vegas figure tied to organized crime and to Liston.

The memos, so sensitive that they were addressed directly to Director J. Edgar Hoover, show the FBI suspected Ash Resnick, a Las Vegas gambler with organized crime connections, of fixing multiple boxing matches, including the first Clay-Liston fight.

The key new evidence is an FBI memo dated May 24, 1966, that details an interview with a Houston gambler named Barnett Magids, who described to agents his discussions with Resnick before the first Clay-Liston fight.

Magids told them that Resnick strongly advised him against betting on Liston winning. The reports also reveal that Resnick and Liston both reportedly made over $1million betting against Liston in the fight.

The documents show no evidence that Ali was in on the scheme or even knew about it, while nothing suggests the bureau ever fully corroborated the suspicions it investigated.

Both fighters were controversial figures, Liston was an ex-con with ties to the mob ties, while Clay had joined the Black Muslims weeks before the fight and changed his name to Ali shortly afterwards.

Early in the fight Clay was in trouble early, losing his vision at one point, before he came back to convincingly beat Liston.

The result was such a shock at the time that there was speculation that the outcome might have been manipulated.
The outsider: Clay (right) entered the ring as a 7-1 underdog, but pulled off a shock victory which laid the foundations for his glittering career as Ali

Liston said he quit because of a shoulder injury, while the Miami Beach Boxing Commission doctor reportedly diagnosed a torn tendon in Liston’s left shoulder.

Florida State Attorney Richard Gerstein conducted a post-fight investigation, which concluded that Liston went into the fight with a bad shoulder.

He determined there was no evidence that the fight was not 'completely regular,' according to The Palm Beach Post.

Miami Beach Boxing Commission Chairman Morris Klein said commissioners were satisfied that there was 'no wrongdoing' and allowed Liston to collect his $370,000 purse.

A US Senate subcommittee conducted hearings three months later but found no evidence of a fixed fight.





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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 2:05 pm

Worst kept secret in boxing mate Liston, Resnick and especially Frank Carbo all made millions out of the fight. The second one was just as bent as well. The clearest thing you will ever read about that fight apart from Resnick who was Listons closest friend telling people in the know to bet on Ali, is the fact that the FBI state that Liston made a money betting against himself, they did not suspect it or hear rumours of it they stated that he actually did make £1M from losing.

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Post by Rodney on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 2:33 pm

The fact Ali never knocked out anyone with one shot in a round is another factor , can't believe the fight was on a level, Liston definetly took a dive.

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Post by Rodney on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 2:36 pm

Sorry never realised the article was surrounding the first meeting.

Cheers Rodders
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 2:41 pm

To be honest Rod..........Marciano - Walcott could have the same argument you've made there....chucked at it too .........

Vanquished fighter rolls over in 2nd fight because they are terrified..

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 2:45 pm

Liston was not terrified of Ali Truss, you know that very well. Liston was terrified of the Mob though he knew very well when to do as his told and the fact he earned more for losing than he would have for winning probably softened the blow.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 2:48 pm

How do you know.......

Fighters do stupid things when intimidated........

What makes Liston different to Walcott in your opinion???

Walcott fought the best.......Lost to rocky then rolled over like a dog in the rematch..

Ali was a huge character.........Larger than life...........

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 3:02 pm

We are not talking about Walcott mate and he was no where near the quality of Liston in any department, the fact is if the FBI thought that that fight was bent and Walcott had earned a fortune betting on himself it would be worth mentioning but there's nothing to support it.  
No one has ever said Ali was involved in the fix but the fight was as rotten as hell and all the evidence only points one way.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 3:06 pm

Don't you think a fighter who lost the first fight and had fought great fighters in Walcott losing in a similar manner is relevant ??

The fact he was drained of confidence after what happened previously..

Or is that an unfortunate coincidence to you.......

The FBI didn't believe the mafia existed........

The FBI didn't believe in a 9/11 conspiracy despite intelligence saying the opposite..

The FBI are laughed at back home Mate.......

You want to believe something Hogey like people want to believe in a JFK conspiracy when all the evidence points to the opposite..

He got old in the first fight.........Lost his bottle in the 2nd like Walcott....

Top fighters lose Mate........

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 3:23 pm

The point is there was evidence Truss, the Walcott fight is absolutely nothing to do with it and could easily be bent as well. The point is though Liston bet on himself to lose before the first fight that is a fact as stated by the FBI not some nutter group. The fact every crook and casino owner in Town had very late money put on a massive underdog and Resnick Liston's best mate was heard telling people not to bet on Liston as well. Maybe if the evidence of a man betting on himself to lose is not enough then look at the fact most ferocious heavyweight in history suddenly stopped being vicious in the ring that night and ambled after Ali like some kind of no hope journeyman, i know Ali was good but nothing in either of their past fights suggested that Ali was that good or Liston that bad and i could tell you for certain no blind man on earth could last 3 minutes with Liston unless he let you.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 4:20 pm

Senate committee found there was any............

Hearsay Mate.......

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 4:51 pm

Its Love sacks, Liston was desperate to catch Ali and even went as far as putting something on his gloves to blind Ali. It was a desperate attempt to defame Ali and the nation of Islam. Even half a truth would have been seized upon.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 4:57 pm

Some people think Bush brought down the Twin Towers........

World would be a dull place without a conspiracy or two........

Mainly turns out to be Anti-establishment types and in this case Liston fans.........

Truth usually is more boring unfortunately..

I'd love to say Curry threw the Honeyghan fight..

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Post by Strongback on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:10 pm

So we can now install Liston in his rightful place at No.2. Louis being No.1 of course.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:12 pm

I reckon it was eddie Hearn in the dressing room with the candle stick.........

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:15 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Senate committee found there was any............

Hearsay Mate.......

The commission like half the establishment at that time would likely have been firmly in Frankie Carbo's pocket, Come on though Truss you believe that Manny used PEDs (possibly rightly) but based on nothing more than the ramblings of Floyd a man scared stiff to fight him, yet you call an investigation by the FBI that uncovered clear evidence of a fix with a boxer and his friends placing prematch bets on himself to lose hearsay and dismiss it completely Smile thats priceless fella. Anyway we are not going to agree, but more will come out about this story in time and i think then we will find out what really happened and why if Liston was trying to win did he place a bet that earned him far more for losing the fight than winning it.

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Post by Strongback on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:17 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Some people think Bush brought down the Twin Towers........



WTC 7?

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Post by Strongback on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:18 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I reckon it was eddie Hearn in the dressing room with the candle stick.........


I thought Eddie was banging his hands on the canvas.

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:23 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Some people think Bush brought down the Twin Towers........


I dont remember reading about the FBI having evidence of that though, you cant seriously compare some nutty conspiracy theorists, with the FBI mate.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:24 pm

You don't think the FBI have had some nutty theories ??

Like there is no such thing as the Mafia ........

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:31 pm

That doesn't have anything to do with it, they soon discovered they were wrong when they investigated it and found evidence of its existence, bit like Listons Bet eh Wink

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:34 pm

Can I ask why you believe a discredited body like the FBI and not the Senate committee which had evidence and testimony submitted from everywhere to review..

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:37 pm

Because the mob only had its hooks in the Senate commitee and not the fbi. What utter nonsense.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:39 pm

I'm not talking about the mob........Talking about Liston..

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Post by Strongback on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:42 pm

The reports also reveal that Resnick and Liston both reportedly made over $1million betting against Liston in the fight.


Maybe the FBI files contain evidence for the above.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:44 pm

Reportedly............. Rolling Eyes 

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:46 pm

Don't think the Senate Committee never saw the FBI's evidence as it was part of another investigation that was still ongoing, and the FBI is not a discredited body that's nonsense mate and you know it. Like any large organisation its had its problems but you can bet its on the money in 99% of its past investigations. You cant just dismiss the entire FBI as useless because it doesnt fit your opinion. If they had found evidence of your favourite fighter Del Boy Chisora doing wrong you would be saying they are the best in the world and would not doubt them Smile

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:47 pm

I doubt it otherwise they'd have brought it out there and then. Instead they've done what any good government office does and buried it for 50 years so its seen as a mystery rather than what it was - a moronic mistake and a colossal waste of time.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:48 pm

If Liston made $1 milion from the first Ali fight by chucking it..........

When you consider what a million is worth today....Several more probably......

Why did he fight 15 odd times after Ali 2.......Strange behaviour....

You are peeing in the dark....Hogey.........

If it was bent the truth would have been outed...

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:49 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Reportedly............. Rolling Eyes 

The bets were made, the reportedly is in reference to the amounts won, some think it was a bit more some say a bit less.

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Post by Pedro147 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:49 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I reckon it was eddie Hearn in the dressing room with the candle stick.........

Top of the range response I must say

Well played hahaha

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:51 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If Liston made $1 milion from the first Ali fight by chucking it..........

When you consider what a million is worth today....Several more probably......

Why did he fight 15 odd times after Ali 2.......Strange behaviour....

You are peeing in the dark....Hogey.........

If it was bent the truth would have been outed...

You wont find many people even to this day who were around that fight and believe it was on the level. I will agree to disagree with you though else we will go round in circles for ever Smile

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:53 pm

Liston was proud of being the heavyweight champion of the world.......The greatest prize in sports...

I imagine it must have been a terrible blow having to chuck..........

Yet he never told his Wife or anybody close to him...........

Hard enough to keep a secret in a room with three people but to keep this thing quiet...

Nope.....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:53 pm

Fairplay Hogey but it's you my friend in the minority not me.......

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Post by hogey on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:57 pm

That never worries me when i comes to a good debate mate, and at least me and you can have one without getting nasty to each other. I never understand why it gets so personal when people dont agree, thats the whole point of a forum.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:58 pm

thumbsup 

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Post by Strongback on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 5:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Liston was proud of being the heavyweight champion of the world.......The greatest prize in sports...



Million dollar pride?

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Post by kingraf on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 6:01 pm

Always found WTC suspicious, missing planes, engines and all. Liston coulda bet against himself figuring even if he loses, he wins. Given his advancing age, cant really see why he wouldn't - suppose the only real question is why then does a multi millionaire keep fighting... step forward Floyd Mayweather. Or Tyson, Or Ali, Or the guy who made the grill, or the guy who was a millionaire who came back from a damaged retina enforced retirement to fight Hagler.
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Post by Cass1234 on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 6:07 pm

Absolutely ridiculous claim.. Some people just love a conspiracy !! Sometimes things ARE exactly what they appear to be !!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 25 Feb 2014, 7:52 pm

The pro Louis brigade are out in force with this garbage I see.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Wed 26 Feb 2014, 12:42 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The pro Louis brigade are out in force with this garbage I see.

Typical rubbish fom Hammersmith again.

Nothing ever insightful or informative to say just garbage.

Every word you type is like a turd falling into my drink.

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