West Indies v England 1st ODI at North Sound

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Post by skyeman on Fri 28 Feb 2014, 12:54 pm

First topic message reminder :

A couple of new faces today with Moeen Ali and Michael Lumb handed caps.

A feel of a ODI/T20 combo with Bangladesh in mind.

England wanted to try and change their formulaic style of recent times. Let's see how far they are willing to go.

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Post by alfie on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 10:56 am

Well I didn't see it , roakey. But apart from Lumb and Ali , who really showed "form" ? From that platform , should have been a breeze , no ?
Not as if they were facing Holding and Marshall...

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Post by GloriousEmpire on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 11:30 am

How far will English (and welsh) cricket fall?

Seems an utter shambles at the moment. Did the suits back the wrong horse when they ditched top performer Peterson for the apparently incapable coaching encumbent?

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 11:34 am

Duty281 wrote: preceding a pointless T20 World Cup.


that's the only form in which England have won a world cup
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 11:37 am

GloriousEmpire wrote:How far will English (and welsh) cricket fall?  

Seems an utter shambles at the moment. Did the suits back the wrong horse when they ditched top performer Peterson for the apparently incapable coaching encumbent?

At least learn to spell his name. Its also the current ODI coach who backed KP.

Basic research GE c'mon!

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 11:41 am

alfie wrote:Well I didn't see it , roakey.  But apart from Lumb and Ali , who really showed "form" ?  From that platform , should have been a breeze , no ?
Not as if they were facing Holding and Marshall...

Alfie - Tredwell also showed ''form'', he bowled well and intelligently. But, as I mentioned last night, the creditable individual performances of him, Lumb and Ali (I wasn't so taken with Root's overall game as mystiroakey) were overshadowed by ultimately a very poor team performance. We were on top for the large majority of the game but chucked it away through being pretty dreadful in the final overs of each innings. We conceded 85 in our last 5 overs  Shocked and just fell away with the bat in the last dozen overs or so.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 11:47 am

mystiroakey wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:Was really pleased for Michael Lumb. Nice guy and deserved his wonderful century.

he root and ali were stars for england.

gutting to see talent like lumb at the age of 34 though.

but hey he has one crowing achievement(highest ODI average in the world Wink )

Theres a reason Lumb hasnt been capped before : his record at county level is mediocre at best and his record in T20 internationals straight up poor.

Dont let this one innings fool you, its ridiculous he got picked. Now England are lumbered with him for a few games off the back of this innings. He isnt a long term solution and frankly his inclusion smacks of desperation. Hales wouldve been a much better option.
The same can be said of Luke Wright who at least had the decency to put in a performance worthy of being dropped.

Maybe Giles has had his hands tied a bit by availability and the need for guys like Cook and Bell to take time off but they are desperately short a proper batsman in this line up. Also the selections seem to have been driven more by looking toward the T20 word cup than putting a proper ODI side together. Fair enough there but it does leave a lot open still.

Ali did Ok but nothing trott wouldnt have got slated for, indeed no doubt he wouldve made 60 at that rate then gt the blame for Wright/Stokes/Buttler etc failing to do their jobs and get the big hits in at the end. Instead that blame is going to Bopara...rather than Stokes Buttler and Wright....and Jordans had a free pass altogether despite dishing out runs on a pudding plate.

This side needs Morgan and Cook or Hales. No Wright, no Bresnan, no Lumb. Obviously they desperately need Ali as theres only 2 right arm off spinners in the side already  Whistle 

I hope Giles can pick a more sensibly balanced side when it comes to meaningful ODIs



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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 11:50 am

lumb and ali not only played well themselves- but they played to for the team- by keeping up and going way above the actual rate needed to win the game..

root when he came on he did really well rotating the strike and keeping it ticking over after the minor concern of Wrights performance which slowed the rate down..

after root went - the lads didnt rotate the strike enough - thinking we still had bags of time to win the game..

then when the big hitters can in they didnt swing out until the final over..

it was a mess since root came off.

all they have to do is play for the team.. Half of the WI's runs in there final 10 overs came from slogs and edges..

Sadly in this form you have to slog and not prize your wicket at some point

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Post by GloriousEmpire on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 11:54 am

What will they blame now? Surely the problem is not still in the dressing room? Perhaps the skills and ability of the players finally needs to be questioned.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 12:04 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:What will they blame now? Surely the problem is not still in the dressing room? Perhaps the skills and ability of the players finally needs to be questioned.

obviously the team was make shift in prepartion for the t20- but there wasnt anything suggesting England was rubbish , just that we didn't play in the right way at key times- we are still not cogs in machine. its not a well oiled unit(care to add any more cliches?)

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 12:44 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:What will they blame now? Surely the problem is not still in the dressing room? Perhaps the skills and ability of the players finally needs to be questioned.

Probably you.

Yes it does. Guys like bresnan have long been questioned. Ditto bopara and wright.
Noone in their right mind would ever have picked lumb for Odis. Tredwell only gets his place because there's noone else. Jordan is getting a run because Finn has lost form, most people a accept he's still unproven or a work In progress.
England were missing Anderson, cook, trott, bell and Morgan as senior players who might well be in a first xi even without kp, and picked the t20 side.
So yes the players ability does get questioned. This isn't the best side they can put out and the one with all the players in was crud too. Not forgetting of course that kp has hardly played Odis for several years anyway, so is really irrelevant to this format.
Player ability is of course part of the picture, but so is a positive environment behind the scenes. The Australian team that Lehman is leading is full of mediocre cricketers but produces their best and unsettles the opposition.
England need to get both right. In all formats they need their best cricketers playing and being happy and confident in what they are doing. They had that for a while a coue of years ago and despite the much derided tactics were winning Odis... Some thing they've consistently struggled with for years.
Now they've picked the sort of side people were calling for with aggressive ( but crap) batsmen and they've failed to deliver. Big shock.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 1:26 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:What will they blame now? Surely the problem is not still in the dressing room? Perhaps the skills and ability of the players finally needs to be questioned.

obviously the team was make shift in prepartion for the t20- but there wasnt anything suggesting England was rubbish , just that we didn't play in the right way at key times- we are still not cogs in machine. its not a well oiled unit(care to add any more cliches?)

So you didn't see the stronger England team get walloped in Australia? Honestly mate... that is a laughable comment.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 1:31 pm

so you laughed at it did you?

whats so funny about it?

so you think England are rubbish and that's that. You dont base anything on individual games.

I am sorry mate - you clearly didn't watch the game. I was basing the performance on the game it self. we played fine and competitively as individuals but lacked the mental winning attitude when it mattered.

You want to bring up some nonsense Aus rivalry into this you may as well start another thread and I will gladly ignore it!

I thought you as a poster was better than that. Clearly not

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 1:36 pm

I laughed at your comment yes. You are talking out your arse mate. They lost. End of.

I did watch the last 30 overs of England batting and while I didn't say "they were rubbish" - they certainly didn't look to be in super hot form either. Maybe you need to pull your head out of the sand.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 1:37 pm

so i am talking out of my ass suggesting that England wernt rubbish- and now you are saying they arnt rubbish.

Are you completely insane or do you just want some argument?

when the heck have i said we are in good form?

we are in shocking form as i have alluded to on the thread..

What is your issue with me mate?

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 1:49 pm

No oakey, I don't want an argument but I can't accept that they played well either as a team of individuals or collectively as a team... however you want to put it.

I just had an issue with your "there is nothing to suggest..." comment. Hence my reference to their very recent ODI form. (nothing to do with Eng v Oz rivalry, btw... it's just the reality of England's form at the moment)

"Throwing it away" as you describe it means that they are not playing too well at the moment surely? Also, the fact that what you think might be mediocre WI players plundering 85 off 5 overs tends to reinforce the current poor form of the England bowling attack.

I agree with you on one thing though, mate... you need Morgan for sure.  OK
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 1:59 pm

I have no idea what you are banging on about, you have misinterpreted points I have made. Stick to the big game in SA. You are playing well and deservedly so  thumbsup

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:03 pm

Congrats on the U19 3rd place win. I bet you understand that?
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:04 pm

congrats on reclaiming the ashes..

how are you going to misinterpret that one?

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:09 pm

"No oakey, I don't want an argument but I can't accept that they played well either as a team of individuals or collectively as a team... however you want to put it"


I didn't say either- are you incredibly high?


we didn't do either. as i have stated plenty of times on this thread- a few players did fine in both aspects - but the majority didnt. I have idea  how you can misinterpret something so much... But ok. Enoughs enough. I am off.  Take the thread over..


speak soon - good luck in the test(real cricket)

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Post by alfie on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:09 pm

Very Happy 

Play nicely , chaps  angel 

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:11 pm

Nothing to misinterpret. It was another convincing 5-0 whitewash.

and to think you said "no Australian player would make the England team"... ha ha.
(I suppose you'll deny that too or say I misinterpreted what you wrote)

Tell you what - the reverse applies x 5.  OK

alfie - just correcting some of oakey's sweeping remarks.  Smile 
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:14 pm

Linebreaker wrote:Nothing to misinterpret. It was another convincing 5-0 whitewash.

and to think you said "no Australian player would make the England team"... ha ha.
(I suppose you'll deny that too or say I misinterpreted what you wrote)

Tell you what - the reverse applies x 5.  OK 

link?

(i may have said it- feick knows, but for validation you must proviude a link..)

Because I have no idea if i said it or not. but all i do know for sure is a couple of things

I have allways said i would take Watson in the England set up and he is criminally underrated(so the statement you are accusing me off makes little sense- and if i did say it it would have been tongue in cheek)

I was about the only poster that was saying you would compete very well in aus and probally win, whilst the rest were predicting a big england win.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:22 pm

what sweeping remark was that?

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:22 pm

Seriously how the heck are you a moderator.

Its beyond belief..

even worse that i once nominated you as the best one on the rugby forum....

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 2:24 pm

Linebreaker, behave yourself.
Mysti, try not to rise to it.

Be nice.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 3:07 pm

Sorry if I rattled you, mysti. Just read your PM and replied.

Found your quote - in fairness you do say "if everyone was on form"

http://www.606v2.com/t50347p450-3rd-ashes-test-perth

Re: 3rd Ashes Test, Perth

Post by mystiroakey on Sat Dec 14 2013, 21:31
Time to be positive.

We have nothing to lose any more.

The weight will shift off our shoulders.

The truth is there are only 3 aus players that would get in our side if everyone was on form..


I thought it was a little over the top at the time considering the state of the series.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 3:58 pm

Already there is talk of Bell being bought back into the fold for the T20 world cup, leapfrogging Bairstow, Ballance, Carberry and Vince following the injuries to Morgan and Hales. It loosk like the penny has dropped that proper batsmen need to be mixed in with the all rounders and sloggers for a successful side....and that some of those previous looked at maybe not showing the form required to merit inclusion.

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Post by GloriousEmpire on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 4:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:Linebreaker, behave yourself.
Mysti, try not to rise to it.

Be nice.

Didn't see much wrong with it. When England are flying high they can dish it out. Remember Ian botham's 25 minutes if Australia jokes after the ashes win in Australia last time?

Time to learn to suck up a bit of banter when your team is losing.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:29 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Linebreaker, behave yourself.
Mysti, try not to rise to it.

Be nice.

Didn't see much wrong with it. When England are flying high they can dish it out. Remember Ian botham's 25 minutes if Australia jokes after the ashes win in Australia last time?

Time to learn to suck up a bit of banter when your team is losing.

Or blame it on norovirus/refs/the french

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Post by Guest on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 5:59 pm

where's Gary Ballance?

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sat 01 Mar 2014, 7:15 pm

Hes in the named 30 but it appears Giles now favours Bell over him wanting to get a proven performer into the squad.

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Post by shivfan on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 9:47 am

I think Narine made all the difference...as Dujon observed, the only batsman who was picking him out of the hand was Lumb. Narine's overs towards the end of the match created the pressure the Windies needed to win this.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 9:52 am

Good win, Shiv.

Hope your guys can repeat the feat in Antigua today.  OK 
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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 10:01 am

Lb mate.

thanks for quoting and proving what i actually said.

rather than what you accused me of saying......

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 10:02 am

mystiroakey wrote:Lb mate.

thanks for quoting and proving what i actually said.

rather than what you accused me of saying......

Think I'd agree with you to be honest, if we're saying top form and both teams at their best.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 10:05 am

mysti, no hard feelings as I said.

The comment sort of wound me up at the time but I held back. Then, for some reason last night I remembered it. You did qualify it by saying "on form" so I guess you were right and I over-reacted slightly.

Back to the other thread. Our man Watto already in trouble.
Where's Phil Hughes when you need him!  Laugh 
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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 10:07 am

well things have dramatically changed havent they.

KP and swan are gone,. so that has to be taken into consideration.. so that 3 could already be 5!! without anything else changing. add trott and prior to that and we have lost another 2!!

Aussies openers are doing much better in SA that they even did v us at home when they walloped us.. It was there middle order/bowlers that battered us.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 10:09 am

"You did qualify it by saying "on form" so I guess you were right and I over-reacted slightly."


there is also a clear mathematical problem that 0 =0 and 3 =3

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 10:11 am

The PM is safe to open, btw. Basically says the same thing as above.  OK 
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Post by GloriousEmpire on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 12:55 pm

Is it true that both swann and trott are descendants of survivors of the titanic disaster? I read that somewhere.

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Post by kingraf on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 1:21 pm

thought trott was a descendant of Albert trott, the biggest hitter in cricket history
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Post by skyeman on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 2:03 pm

WI's 30/3. Root with 2, Ali the other.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 4:13 pm

No thread for this second game? Juts caught up and the first thing that strikes is that theyve gone even further down the route of ridicukous team selections ...two specialist spinners at they still bowl the part timers first ...9 bowlers in total and 8 used so far.
Seems likes it worked so far somehow but with only 4 proper batsmen in the side....

Its quite clear they are using these games to give T20 squad players a go. which perhaps has some merits but seriously is this the oddest england 50 over side ever picked?

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 4:51 pm

No clue what's going on with the team selection.

Might as well have made it 6 T20s! *shudders*

Only England can mess this chase up; they must remember they have fifty overs to get this!

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 6:03 pm

Yeah its seriously odd lads..

but Wright at 3- come on.. all we are doing is gifting WI pressure to insert on us with a great chance of what just happened- 2 quick wickets..

Root is obviously safe as safe- and a natural odi no 3..

anyway it doesn't really matter where he plays so much(root has a different position every time he plays- the lad gets shifted about so much anyway- and that is a different problem).. Its more about why is Wright playing cricket for England full stop.

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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 6:15 pm

i dont know why people are flapping...

in a chase as small as this, with the rate being 3 an over..all you do with Narine is see him off for 20 odd..and no damage...and hit off the other bowlers, which we can do....that's how you have to knock off these small chases..too often its over complicated, by players, pundits and fans alike..

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Post by Guest on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 6:18 pm

also, people critcising Wright and saying he shouldn;t be in odi side, please use common sense...this isn't a 50 over side in the main part..it's a t20 squad preparing for a t20 world cup..Wright wouldn't be anywhere near the 50 over side, if we had took a full 50 over squad.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 6:40 pm

Maybe you should use a bit of common sense.

Wright has played 49 matches for odi's and t20's

he average's 20 in both formats.. but he has a strike rate of 135 in t20's and 80 odd in odi's as you would expect.

All you are doing by playing a man that is so bad at shot selection and only minorly ok at slogging by playing him at this level is stunting his potential at slogging..t he literally has no skills for with a substantial experience level, where he may be forced in to having to try and defend.

If you are going to play wright as practise. tell him to play 20/20 style.. or at the very least play him down the order where his slogging skills(as minor as they are) may be of use!

playing him at 3 or 4 as they did last time is ridiculous. and there is also serious questions marks over him at t20 level, but his bowling isnt that bad at that format. however as stated- you want to play him for practice - dont stick him at no 3!!!

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 6:48 pm

England throwing it away?
Now where have I heard that before? Whistle 

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 02 Mar 2014, 6:49 pm

I think we might just get over the line in this game mate..

just!!

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