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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 09 Mar 2014, 9:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

Use this for the Arsenal debates and such
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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 3:04 pm

I don't particularly rate either, that's probably why there is a debate around who's better. At least with Sagna, you kind of get consistency & he's reliable, although his offensive work & crossing was pretty poor. With Debuchy, he's very inconsistent, woeful defensively, poor in the air & rash at times. For his supposed 'offensive' strengths, he barely did anything for us in terms of goals or assists but he's better than Sagna in that department & at Arsenal he should do more offensive, than defensive work, most likely. He will get found out massively at some point though will Debuchy, especially in the champions league alongside Mertesacker. His desire to be with Cabaye 24/7 also irritated many at NUFC & once Yohan left, he just completely went AWOL in terms of performances. It was embarrassing at times.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 5:28 pm

First pre-season game out of the way. 2-0 win against Borehamwood. Kris Olsson and Benik Afobe (pen), were the goalscorers. Wenger used two different teams for each half. Hector Bellerin was probably Arsenal's best performer.

It'll be interesting to see which youngsters go to the US for next weeks friendly with Thierry Henry's New York Red Bulls, as some of the world cup players like Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Cazorla and possibly Sanchez will make the trip.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 5:42 pm

Interesting comments after the game from Wenger. Confirms Arsenal's transfer business isn't done and he will bring in a 'keeper. Says he cannot guarantee if Thomas Vermaelen will stay, but he will sign a replacement if the Belgian does go.

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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 7:06 pm

Casillas has basically released a 'come & get me' plea to Arsenal. Be interesting to see what happens there.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 7:35 pm

I can see Casillas' people hawking him around Europe. Can't see him staying as third choice at Madrid, but I'm not convinced he'll end up at Arsenal. His wage demands might be a problem as he'll probably be second choice. I think Monaco would be a great destination for him, as they need a keeper since they pulled the plug on the Valdes deal.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 7:51 pm

Boreham Wood, eh? Nasty team as far as I recall in recent years.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 6:52 am

If the article in today's Mirror's to be believed, it looks like Wenger's been reading Dolphin Ziggler's comments. They reckon Wilshere will be used as a deep-lying playmaker/anchorman, unless a 'remarkable' deal comes up.

Wilshere - Anchorman:
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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 9:56 am

Nakatomi Plaza wrote:If the article in today's Mirror's to be believed, it looks like Wenger's been reading Dolphin Ziggler's comments. They reckon Wilshere will be used as a deep-lying playmaker/anchorman, unless a 'remarkable' deal comes up.

Wilshere - Anchorman:
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I really can't see how that will work. Arsenal need a strong defensive midfielder, rather than a deep lying playmaker - a Gattuso, rather than a Pirlo. Wilshere isn't physically strong enough to play a more destructive role - the likes of Yaya will just brush him off. I would also question whether he will have the necessary positional discipline.

I don't see how Arsenal can ignore the true DM role. If they do, the top teams will just beat them up in midfield again. Flamini made a huge difference when he was fit, and he's not even a top-class DM. They need an upgrade on Flamini, with Flamini playing a back-up role. If they don't bring anyone in, they're relying on Arteta, who seems to be ageing rapidly, and Diaby, who can't play more than 5 games a season.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 11:40 am

Diaby isnt a holding midfielder at all.

Wilshere can play that role, definitely, and if he does it for long term he will get it down to a tee. It'll soon teach him defensive discipline cos you get caught out quickly, and its where he'll play for England more likely. Strength wise, most people are weaker than Yaya. So you defend it a different way, which he will learn. He's never gonna be a number 10 so this is a good move.

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Post by Crimey on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 1:05 pm

Also, barely any top European sides play with a destroyer. The closest I can think of are Vidal for Juventus and Matuidi for PSG and it would be a disservice I think to both those players to describe them like that. With the game relying more and more on possession, the top sides simply don't play with the traditional style of defensive midfielders.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 2:38 pm

How many games did Wilshire play last season...he seemed to be injured so much. Was that the case?

In fact i think he hasnt progressed any since he first came on the scene nearly five years ago because of that. Just an opinion of course.

Hopefully he can stay fit and really get to grips with a role.

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 2:57 pm

Crimey wrote:Also, barely any top European sides play with a destroyer. The closest I can think of are Vidal for Juventus and Matuidi for PSG and it would be a disservice I think to both those players to describe them like that. With the game relying more and more on possession, the top sides simply don't play with the traditional style of defensive midfielders.

Man City have Fernandinho, Chelsea have Matic, Barca have Busquets, Madrid have Khedira, Bayern have Martinez or Lahm, with Schweinsteiger also sitting deep and defensively strong. Perhaps none of those players are your typical destroyers, but all are very strong defensively and offer a physical presence. Equally, not all of those players are first choice in every game, but they at least offer their teams a more physical option to protect the midfield. You could even look at Fletcher at Man Utd, and Lucas at Liverpool offering the same qualities. Wilshere simply doesn't offer what those players do defensively in terms of breaking up play. Arsenal don't have anyone who does offer that (bar Flamini).

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 3:40 pm

You don't know as he's never really played there. I'd venture it won't take long before hes better at it than Lucas, and he's much better on the ball too. But your argument is weak when you consider a Toure running at him and then list Lahm as an example of a player he isnt. Lahm is 3ft 6. Wilshere offers more presence than him physically, and is actually quite robust in defence.

The point is that he can get to grips with it all.

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 3:52 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:You don't know as he's never really played there. I'd venture it won't take long before hes better at it than Lucas, and he's much better on the ball too. But your argument is weak when you consider a Toure running at him and then list Lahm as an example of a player he isnt. Lahm is 3ft 6. Wilshere offers more presence than him physically, and is actually quite robust in defence.

The point is that he can get to grips with it all.

So 5 ft 7 1/2 Jack Wilshere offers more presence than 5 ft 7 Philipp Lahm? Not sure I see that.

My point wasn't just about physical presence, however. It was also about defensive ability. (It's worth noting that neither Reno Gattuso nor Claude Makelele were big men.) Lahm is one of the best players of his generation, with the intelligence and discipline to play almost anywhere. What Lahm loses in size, he makes up for in positional awareness and footballing nous. I don't see Wilshere offering that.

I think Jack Wilshere's a fantastic player: I certainly think he could make an excellent deep lying play-maker. I wouldn't want to rely on him to break up opposition play, however. I believe that teams need players like that, and Arsenal, outside Flamini, don't have one.

I also wouldn't dismiss Lucas. He may not do anything flashy, but until his injuries he made Liverpool look a more balanced side. Jack Wilshere may be a better footballer, but I'm not sure the same could be said for his role at Arsenal.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 6:22 pm

I see it because I've watched their styles. You surely see Wilshere is far stronger in the tackle than Lahm?

Again, the point is that he has to learn the role. And his natural talent, ball retention, eagerness to be involved in the tackling anyway and comfort in possession suggests he would have a lot of luck there

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 6:56 pm

Lahm is far stronger in the tackle, he has the added benefit of not ending up in a heap each time he makes a tackle.

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Post by LastDamnation on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 7:05 pm

Definitely need a DM, the only CM partnership that has worked consistently was arteta-ramsey, every other one had massive issues.

I'm amused people still think flamini "made a difference when he played". He was a liability on many occasions, we should have signed a proper DM rather than getting him on a free

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 7:12 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Lahm is far stronger in the tackle, he has the added benefit of not ending up in a heap each time he makes a tackle.

Smarter, but not physically stronger. And avoiding the bias against Wilshere. Lahm is a better player, I'm not debating that, he wins in everything else.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 9:29 pm

The only way I can see Arsenal getting away with playing Wilshere and Ramsey as the double-pivot is if the full backs become more disciplined. Arsenal tend to push both full backs up when attacking which leaves us open for the counter attack. This will need to change, particularly away against the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester City.

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 9:40 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I see it because I've watched their styles. You surely see Wilshere is far stronger in the tackle than Lahm?

Again, the point is that he has to learn the role. And his natural talent, ball retention, eagerness to be involved in the tackling anyway and comfort in possession suggests he would have a lot of luck there

Paul Scholes was strong in the tackle. He was rubbish at it too. That's an extreme example, but I don't think 'strong in the tackle' equates to 'good defender'. Personally, I don't see Wilshere as particularly strong defensively, in terms of anticipation and discipline, certainly not enough to offset his lack of size.

You may be right, though, of course. I don't watch Wilshere every week. Given that he'd be paired with Ramsey, though, were I an Arsenal fan I would be worried about that midfield being over-run.

On an unrelated note, I see that Arsenal are now being linked with Nani. Of course, the media do talk a lot of nonsense, but the only reason I could see for Arsenal going for Nani so would be because without Bendtner they have a vacancy for a terrible player.

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Post by CFCNick on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 4:36 pm

Any Gooners been duped into buying the new Arsenal FA Cup app?

69p for match reports, photos and post match interviews. What a way to commemorate their win.

Making the app in the first place is stupid. Making fans pay for it is even worse.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza on Tue 12 Aug 2014, 6:22 pm

Theo Walcott and David Ospina have been left out of Arsenal's Champions League play off squad due to injury. Laurent Koscielny, Abou Diaby and Serge Gnabry are included, despite having knocks

1. Wojciech Szczęsny, 2. Mathieu Debuchy, 3. Kieran Gibbs, 4. Per Mertesacker, 6. Laurent Koscielny, 7. Tomáš Rosický, 8. Mikel Arteta, 9. Lukas Podolski, 10. Jack Wilshere, 11. Mesut Özil, 12. Olivier Giroud, 15. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain*, 16. Aaron Ramsey, 17. Alexis Sánchez, 18. Nacho Monreal, 19. Santi Cazorla, 20. Mathieu Flamini, 21. Calum Chambers, 22. Yaya Sanogo, 24. Abou Diaby, 27. Serge Gnabry*, 28. Joel Campbell, 34. Francis Coquelin, 35. Gedion Zelalem, 38. Chuba Akpom*, 39. Héctor Bellerín*, 42. Isaac Hayden*, 43. Ryan Huddart*, 45. Alex Iwobi*, 46. Jack Jebb*, 47. Glen Kamara*, 49. Matt Macey, 50. Damian Martinez, 51. Ignasi Miquel, 52. Tafari Moore*, 53. Kristoffer Olsson*, 54. Brandon Ormonde-Ottewill*, 56. Jon Toral*, 57. Josh Vickers*.

*=B list, players under 21 and have been at Arsenal for at least 2 years.

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Post by Nakatomi Plaza on Thu 14 Aug 2014, 5:33 pm

Looks like Koscielny will be fit to play against Palace, as he's been able to train with the first team this week. No ETA on when Serge Gnabry will be back. This might put the kibosh on any potential loan move.

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Post by socal1976 on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 7:17 am

We need to get one more good signing either as a DM or CB positions, preferrably in both positions.

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Post by J.Benson II on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 11:32 am

Arsenal need a strong holding midfielder. Even someone like Wanyama would be great I reckon.
Why didn't Arsenal go for Balotelli? Big, strong CF with movement. Giroud is better off as a impact sub (as proved yesterday). Sanchez is no CF.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 11:36 am

Arsenal didn't go for Balotelli because he's not good enough to go with the agro, sensible from Wenger.

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Post by J.Benson II on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 11:51 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Arsenal didn't go for Balotelli because he's not good enough to go with the agro, sensible from Wenger.

They still really need a top CF though. Their strike force when compared to their rivals is laughable. Sanogo is their second choice forward yet can barely play football. Laugh 

Even teams like Swansea have better options.

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 6:05 am

I think it is too soon to judge Sanchez as a striker, he does play that position for his national team and for a little guy is both good in the air, with his back to goal, and good in pressing the ball high up the pitch. He was great for Arsenal last night although he should have bagged a second.

The gunners got lucky with a dead on penalty in the first half and unlucky with a phantom second yellow on Debuchy in the second half so things sort of evened out in the refereeing. Have to say that Champions League ref was terrible. He was card happy, Debuchy's second yellow was at best a marginal foul and he missed a dead on penalty that could very well have sent Arsenal out of the competition. I think even if the penalty kick was given we would have found a way to score two goals and should have had two if not for an absolutely awful finish by Ox from 5 yards out one one with the goalie. 9 out of 10 he scores that goal.

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Post by 22-2 on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 11:06 am

Up the Arsenal!!! Arsenal FC thread - Page 6 3933776953

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Post by socal1976 on Wed 28 Jan 2015, 6:36 am

Wenger did some business in January and we got a guy who should be able to move into our line up instantly and contribute in Paulista. Why a 10-15 million pound CB and 10-15 million pound purchase at DM was not executed prior to the season is beyond me. If we were going to spend the money in January after a shaky start to the season you would think it would have been wiser to spend that money prior to the season and not give up all those goals. That being said lets give Coq some time in there and maybe he is the answer at DM and Paulista will give us three good CBs to hold the line.

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Post by Guest on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 2:45 pm

Pretty much the end for Welbeck now, being found out massively, not good enough & never was going to become the new Henry, as some delusional people thought. Expect him to be loaned out next summer to a lower PL side, which is his level.

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 26 Feb 2015, 6:11 am

Dreadful home loss against Monaco in the CL, looks like we are pretty much out of the Champions league. As I keep saying we need to improve our defense. Mertesacker not going to get it done at CB, and I am not convinced of Bellerin either. It is time to give Chambers and Paulista a chance in the CB position. Just awful performance. Giroud was so poor as well.

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Post by Guest on Thu 26 Feb 2015, 9:29 am

socal1976 wrote:Giroud was so poor as well.

Someone's been saying that for years, nobody listens though.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 26 Feb 2015, 9:48 am

J.Benson II wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Arsenal didn't go for Balotelli because he's not good enough to go with the agro, sensible from Wenger.

They still really need a top CF though. Their strike force when compared to their rivals is laughable. Sanogo is their second choice forward yet can barely play football. Laugh 

Even teams like Swansea have better options.

When I saw Giroud against City he looked plenty good enough............

Aguero, Costa all miss chances Mate..........

If your team is winning you don't notice...........That's Giroud's problem...

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 26 Feb 2015, 10:46 am

John wrote:
socal1976 wrote:Giroud was so poor as well.

Someone's been saying that for years, nobody listens though.

John, I have to say I have been for upgrading the striker position for some time. But currently we have in Welbeck, Giroud, Sanchez, and Theo players that can play at the tip of spear. None of them are worldclass strikers but it is a big risk spending all that to get a Suarez type or Falcao type and then watching him get hurt, or having the goals dry up like it has for the two big name strikers I mentioned. At this time the most critical area as far as I see it for Arsenal is defense. Bellerin is a couple of years away if he gets there at all, and Mertesacker is having a howler of a year. I would prefer to go out and buy the best CB out in the market and the best DM, could probably get both for less than it would cost to get a dominant CF. Our problem is not scoring but giving up too many goals.

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Post by socal1976 on Thu 26 Feb 2015, 10:47 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
J.Benson II wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Arsenal didn't go for Balotelli because he's not good enough to go with the agro, sensible from Wenger.

They still really need a top CF though. Their strike force when compared to their rivals is laughable. Sanogo is their second choice forward yet can barely play football. Laugh 

Even teams like Swansea have better options.

When I saw Giroud against City he looked plenty good enough............

Aguero, Costa all miss chances Mate..........

If your team is winning you don't notice...........That's Giroud's problem...

I think Giroud has been good for the squad myself. He just isn't an Henry or Van Persie type and he never will be.

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Post by Stella on Thu 26 Feb 2015, 10:49 am

Sanchez is close or is world class, and Giroud isn't that bad, in fact he's not shabby. Having welbeck and theo is onr too many. I'd ditch one, and bring in a poacher type.
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Post by socal1976 on Thu 26 Feb 2015, 12:33 pm

Stella wrote:Sanchez is close or is world class, and Giroud isn't that bad, in fact he's not shabby. Having welbeck and theo is onr too many. I'd ditch one, and bring in a poacher type.

I'd like to give Welbeck more of chance, but if it is one or the other I will take Theo any day of the week. Danny does track back better than Theo but Theo is so much more dynamic in attack. I agree on Giroud, he has his off days like all strikers but those days are fewer and father in between then in the past.

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Post by Guest on Thu 26 Feb 2015, 2:44 pm

Giroud doesn't have a good day in the champions league, past the group stage. That's the most important point. He's decent at headers, build up play & taps ins vs mid to low PL teams, however, when it comes to the most important club competition, he's woefully short of what a club the size of Arsenal require.

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Post by socal1976 on Sat 28 Feb 2015, 5:05 am

LiamB wrote:Giroud doesn't have a good day in the champions league, past the group stage. That's the most important point. He's decent at headers, build up play & taps ins vs mid to low PL teams, however, when it comes to the most important club competition, he's woefully short of what a club the size of Arsenal require.

Would you keep the strikers we have now, or spend lets say 30 million on solidifying the defense and defensive midfield? Which area is more critical at this moment to address? That is my point. I agree I am not saying Giroud is going to lead to the CL and league title where we all want to go. But to me Per has been really bad in defense and our full backs haven't exactly filled me with confidence either nor our holding midfielders either. I just feel like investing in those areas will pay a bigger dividend and probably for less money.

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Post by Guest on Sat 28 Feb 2015, 7:08 pm

Giroud's misses made the team nervous, puts pressure on others to perform, when someone isn't doing their job. Arsenal should of been in control & we would never of seen such space & I'll-discipline emerge, if you'd gone rightfully two up with Giroud's chances. You would if controlled the game & not been so gung-ho & reckless in your second half approach. Giroud's misses forced the team to lose all discipline & tactically everything went out the window, in a desperate attempt to correct the score line, which should of been comfortable

Yes, the defence needs some work, however, with a striker of such limited ability, you won't ever win the competition anyway, regardless of improving the defence or midfield protection.

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Post by socal1976 on Mon 02 Mar 2015, 5:47 am

LiamB wrote:Giroud's misses made the team nervous, puts pressure on others to perform, when someone isn't doing their job. Arsenal should of been in control & we would never of seen such space & I'll-discipline emerge, if you'd gone rightfully two up with Giroud's chances. You would if controlled the game & not been so gung-ho & reckless in your second half approach. Giroud's misses forced the team to lose all discipline & tactically everything went out the window, in a desperate attempt to correct the score line, which should of been comfortable

Yes, the defence needs some work, however, with a striker of such limited ability, you won't ever win the competition anyway, regardless of improving the defence or midfield protection.

Yeah but my point was not really about whether we rely solely on Giroud. I agree if we did that as our only option it might not be a good idea to get us to the level of winning major trophies regularly. But I would like to see Sanchez, Welbeck, and Theo also work along with Giroud at the tip of the spear in a platoon like basis. True Danny hasn't performed that well as the lone striker. But he needs more of a chance I believe. For me I fear our defensive frailities more than our lack of strike options right now. I think we need to first upgrade defense and defensive midfield and yes if we can if an opportunity arises pounce on a top striker.

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Post by socal1976 on Mon 02 Mar 2015, 6:04 am

Liam, I do agree with your take however that when your striker is missing chanes he should put away it puts pressure on the whole team and can unnerve your squad as a whole.

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Post by socal1976 on Wed 13 May 2015, 8:02 am

Ridiculous loss to Swansea. We attacked the whole match and could not score and Swansea barely scores on their first shot. We need a new goal keeper. That ball crosses the line by inches and I can't help but think that Neuer, Buffon, Alves, Courtois, or Cech would keep that shot out. Seriously in regards to Alves from Valencia. Arsenal need to sign him now. This guy single handedly ended Madrid's la liga title hopes. His save on Bale is one of the all time greatest saves I have ever seen in world football. And then when Real was given a PK, he walks up to CR7 and says "you are going to go right and I am going to stop you". And that is exactly what happened. Arsenal fork over 25 or 30 million if you have to and get this guy. A good keeper, a solid squad CB, and a world class striker is all that is separating us from the really big trophies CL and the premiership.

If anyone saw the Valencia v. Real match what a treat, incredible football, one of the ten best matches I have ever seen and one of the greatest goal keeping performances ever. Sign Alves now Arsene!!!!!!!!!!! Now Arsene!!!!!! The guy is to goal keeping what Bobby Brown is to smoking crack.

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Post by socal1976 on Sun 06 Mar 2016, 11:46 pm

Well another typical collapse, we haven't won a match in the league since we went top. Frankly, the whole team played well enough to win except for Coquelin who threw away a match we were controlling at White Hart Lane at the 60 minute mark when he got tossed. There was no reason to lunge in on Kane on a card, just inside your halfway area with other defenders running back. If you are close enough to lunge in you are close enough to run him down once he gets the ball just inside the halfway line. Coquelin and Flamini have not been the answer to defensive midfield. Per is also a liability he had a great couple of years 2 or 3 years ago. But he has been passed it sometime. I think we were hoping Gabriel would develop quicker as well as Chambers.

We are not completely out of it but when you can't win a match in league for like two months you aren't going to lift the trophy. But at least we kept Spurs from chasing down Leicester. Aaron GOAT Ramsey scared a beautiful world class goal. And by the way Nancy Reagan died the next day. Stop it Aaron, whatever is driving your jihad against celebrities it has to stop soon.

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