Groves on talk sport

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Heard gg on talk sport this afternoon. He's saying froch is traing for a fight he can't win and froch is in trouble.... I like gg, I think he's a great fighter but after moaning whinging and complaining his way to a rematch I hope froch stops him early so he can get on with possibly being a fantastic world champion instead of the moaning loudmouthed ginger naughty naughty boy he's become

milkyboy wrote:Just watched the last 3 rounds again. Gave groves the 7th, thought the 8th was pretty even. He was caught and holding on but really, Just a god awful stoppage that doesn't get any better for repeat viewings.

Easy to look back and make a case for an awful stoppage and it wasn't much kop.....

But your gut feeling at the time was Froch was closing in for the kill...If it's anything like mine Milkster.

Truss were you to look back to the fight night thread you will see I described it as the worst I've ever seen then.

That said, knowing froch's relentlessness if I had to bet my life on it, I'd have gone for him to get a genuine stoppage. But then I don't know grove's power's of recovery ( David haye says they're exceptional) ... because I never got the chance to see them. I think any result was still possible, froch has great stamina but he was struggling to maintain his assaults in the previous couple of rounds so every chance GG holds and scrapes his way to the bell, and after a minutes rest who knows.

But yeh, it looked like the momentum had swing truss, and gun to my head says froch.

Same here..........I thought the referee panicked as the tape shows he was blindsided..

As a Groves fan that night I thought he was in trouble..

Think it will be better for Brit Boxing for Groves to win this time........Just think he missed the boat.

Boxtthis wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He was no longer landing with authority, after the sixth his punches lacked snap and even at the end of that round he took a breather. Or is lying on the ropes not doing a lot also fighting conservatively?

You probably need to watch that round again. Just because Froch did comparatively better than the beating he was taking before doesn't mean that GG was somehow in trouble. He landed a number of right hands, all of which were 'snappier' than Froch's. In fact, Froch had a distinct lack of 'snap' in his punches all night.

Round 8 changes when Froch goes in to all out roughhouse mode. It's still a very, very close round though.

Not sure what that's a reply to but it has no relevance to what I said, my point is that if you compare Groves' early work to his later work and the reaction of Froch early and late you'll see a distinct difference. As far as I could see Groves was starting to feel the pace and I don't see how that can be disputed, he's gasping for air in between rounds and starts to get more and more ragged.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He was no longer landing with authority, after the sixth his punches lacked snap and even at the end of that round he took a breather. Or is lying on the ropes not doing a lot also fighting conservatively?

You probably need to watch that round again. Just because Froch did comparatively better than the beating he was taking before doesn't mean that GG was somehow in trouble. He landed a number of right hands, all of which were 'snappier' than Froch's. In fact, Froch had a distinct lack of 'snap' in his punches all night.

Round 8 changes when Froch goes in to all out roughhouse mode. It's still a very, very close round though.

Not sure what that's a reply to but it has no relevance to what I said, my point is that if you compare Groves' early work to his later work and the reaction of Froch early and late you'll see a distinct difference. As far as I could see Groves was starting to feel the pace and I don't see how that can be disputed, he's gasping for air in between rounds and starts to get more and more ragged.

Yes Rd 7 was a bit of a turning point and GG was comparatively less effective than in the rest of the fight. But, he was still pretty much dominant and still hurt Froch a bunch of times. I'd hardly pick out "no longer landing with authority", "lacking snap", and "lying on the ropes" as accurate descriptive statements for that round.

It's the hyperbole I don't agree with, he neither dominated the round or hurt Froch let alone a bunch of times.

As far as I could see Groves was starting to feel the pace and I don't see how that can be disputed, he's gasping for air in between rounds and starts to get more and more ragged.

Is that the same as "gassing"?

How did Froch look between rounds by the way?

Froch looked like he was taking punishment but at no point was his output starting to drop off, he just carried on doing what he does every single fight. One round he's on the retreat and the next he's marching forwards through Groves, that is the most telling thing.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's the hyperbole I don't agree with, he neither dominated the round or hurt Froch let alone a bunch of times.

He clearly won the round. You can't make a case for Froch winning it. He staggered Froch clearly twice. Once with a jab in the first minute. Once with a right around the 2 min mark. He also hit him with several other clean jabs. On the other hand, Froch only caught GG with a hurtful punch after break had been called.

Maybe not 'dominant' by some interpretations, but if I'm guilty of slightly exaggerating the decisiveness of the round, then surely it's better to at least make statements that reflect the general gist of what actually happened. Whereas there is very little evidence for the statements you made.

Personally thought Froch was coming on strong from round 7,bad stoppage yes but Froch was starting to get on top IMO and I feel Groves was definitely starting to tire.Froch has proved time and time again that he is strong over the 12 round distance.

Still feel Froch thought he only had to turn up to win the first fight,might have something to do with the sparring sessions they had before the Degale Groves fight.

Froch will be a lot more focused this time that's for sure,can Groves fight any better who knows, can Froch without a shadow of a doubt.
I think a different fight 2nd time round.

Boxtthis wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's the hyperbole I don't agree with, he neither dominated the round or hurt Froch let alone a bunch of times.

He clearly won the round. You can't make a case for Froch winning it. He staggered Froch clearly twice. Once with a jab in the first minute. Once with a right around the 2 min mark. He also hit him with several other clean jabs. On the other hand, Froch only caught GG with a hurtful punch after break had been called.

Maybe not 'dominant' by some interpretations, but if I'm guilty of slightly exaggerating the decisiveness of the round, then surely it's better to at least make statements that reflect the general gist of what actually happened. Whereas there is very little evidence for the statements you made.

I disagree, it was a round that could favour the cleaner work of Groves or the higher volume of Froch but it was not a clear round to score at all. People only see what they want to see, Groves was winning which becomes he was dominating every round before getting stopped which wasn't the case. I have given evidence for why I think Froch was turning the tide and why I think Groves was gassing, it happened less than five months ago I don't need to keep rewatching it to refresh my memory.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't need to keep rewatching it to refresh my memory.

You probably should if that's what you remember seeing.

5 months regurgitating the same old crap. The topic that never dies.

Boxtthis wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't need to keep rewatching it to refresh my memory.

You probably should if that's what you remember seeing.

Why, because I didn't think it was a dominating performance from start to finish, there's a reason Froch was coming into it more.

Strongback wrote:5 months regurgitating the same old crap.  The topic that never dies.

Good thing we've got you to broaden our perspective.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I don't need to keep rewatching it to refresh my memory.

You probably should if that's what you remember seeing.

Why, because I didn't think it was a dominating performance from start to finish, there's a reason Froch was coming into it more.

Well, that's pretty much irrelevant to what I said. I only said that upon watching Rd 7 a bunch of times tonight it looked a clear GG round. His punches were still effective and he stunned Froch a few times. You said that, on the basis of your 5 month recollection of the fight, GG was laying on the ropes and his punches were ineffective. I felt that needed corrected. I think I've done just that.

I believe what Groves said, Foster got caught in the hype that Froch has an iron chin and he has a glass one.

Groves was not as badly hurt in that round as Froch was in the 1st (totally gone) or the 6th (took some horrendous shots bang on the chin).

The first round I gave Froch was the 8th... possibly and the 9th.

You watch the pattern of the fight, Froch was getting dominated.

In fairness to the referee and it was a terrible stoppage no doubt but this is more aimed towards Froch, a fighters reputation will sway his officiating. The middle minute of the sixth round was brutal, possibly the most brutal of his career but he didn't go down nor did he look that hurt, he was feeling the shots no doubt but his recovery powers in that round were something else. 

Reminded me of the 7th I believe in the Gonzalez/Burns fight where the dominator must have been thinking what more could he do to stop him coming back at me. You can't underestimate the psychology of a round like that, you throw the kitchen sink at somebody then come right back at you and have you backing up on the ropes by the bell.

hampo171 wrote:

titaniumjaw wrote:He did moan and complain. I like groves like I said but thought he was beat fair and square so should have moved on. Once again a post on this forum is ridiculed for not being the popular opinion!!!

Why should he move on because you thought he lost? ;)Only joking, to be honest it was a controversial stoppage and most fighters would have lodged the complaint. Shouldn't be forgotten that Froch promised him a rematch after the fight only to backtrack on that offer and start trying to get a fight with Chavez JR.

Backtrack?

Froch never backtracked, this is a Groves fan myth. He stated he did not NEED the rematch and was looking at his options and rightfully asserted his position. Everyone knows to make a fight both fighters need to agree a contract. So now Groves who just lost and was and still is the challenger can demand a rematch and any contract he likes, or it means Froch is backtracking? He then offered Groves a contract which Groves turned down and THEN asked the IBF to make it mandatory because he thought this would mean Froch had to offer him more money or lose the best, which was not the case and Groves basically ended up with the same contract offer Froch first gave him... and hence the fight went ahead.

BoxingFan88 wrote:The first round I gave Froch was the 8th... possibly and the 9th.

You watch the pattern of the fight, Froch was getting dominated.

lol

Yeah Groves was battering Froch's fists with his head n that one!... Froch's hands where almost broken... lol

tunes666 wrote:

hampo171 wrote:

titaniumjaw wrote:He did moan and complain. I like groves like I said but thought he was beat fair and square so should have moved on. Once again a post on this forum is ridiculed for not being the popular opinion!!!

Why should he move on because you thought he lost? ;)Only joking, to be honest it was a controversial stoppage and most fighters would have lodged the complaint. Shouldn't be forgotten that Froch promised him a rematch after the fight only to backtrack on that offer and start trying to get a fight with Chavez JR.

Backtrack?

Froch never backtracked, this is a Groves fan myth.  He stated he did not NEED the rematch and was looking at his options and rightfully asserted his position.  Everyone knows to make a fight both fighters need to agree a contract. So now Groves who just lost and was and still is the challenger can demand a rematch and any contract he likes, or it means Froch is backtracking?  He then offered Groves a contract which Groves turned down and THEN asked the IBF to make it mandatory because he thought this would mean Froch had to offer him more money or lose the best, which was not the case and Groves basically ended up with the same contract offer Froch first gave him... and hence the fight went ahead.

Froch didn't want any part of this rematch and that is something I firmly believe. Everytime he was asked about it he would say I won, why do I need a rematch? I'm looking at fighting Chavez instead. That fight ended in such a way that he should have jumped at the chance to rematch Groves and show everyone that he was about to stop him and that the first fight was a fluke. Instead we heard how he was going to face Ward (nobody wants to see that fight again) or Chaves JR who hadn't fought at the weight at that point.

The fight was there for all to see if you take your goggles off, Froch came out looking to go toe to toe, and did not give enough respect to Groves power and paid the price in rnd 1 where if the bell did not go he would have been stopped.

From then on Groves was quicker, more accurate and Froch was finding it very hard to catch Groves and when he did he was countered... and Groves won about 6 clear rounds give or take.

From around the 6th rnd you saw signs that Froch was going to have to walk through Groves to have any joy, and in the 7th you saw signs of him doing this where he could have taken that round.. From this point on you saw Groves power not being quite as effective and Froch was able to keep up with Groves speed, clearly you could see that Groves was no longer able to keep Froch back and was having to rely on the back foot and getting away from Froch a little more. While Groves was still throwing punches back, you could see them having less effect while you could see Froch's punches were having more effect.

By Round 9 Froch was able to walk through Groves and where Groves only needed to box on the back foot and see the rounds out he seemed to struggle to do that, while Froch was starting to look more at home.

By the time of the stoppage it was looking increasingly like Groves may still be stopped in the fight and Froch was at last starting to look like the Froch we know... I wanted Froch to win and up till that point and felt he was going to be soundly beaten, but when the fight turned around I was excited that it looked like he may get the stoppage people expected.

Up till the point of the stoppage people where on their feet expecting Froch to stop Groves and Groves looked hurt and very desperate to hang in there... Yes, the Reff stopped it about 2 punches too soon.

And here we are with a rematch.

I think if Froch is still in good shape he will give Groves more respect and be more careful early on. I actually see it going either two ways. Either Groves will out point him in a very controlled cagey fight where he will frustrate Froch and Jab his nose off, or Froch will stop him again, and this time will get the extra two punches that he did not land in the first stoppage.

Groves has his power and speed but it also requires allot of fuel, which seems to be the case with Haye as well, another of Booths babies. So I think Groves will always have that excitement factor of either blowing people away, or having to deal with fighters later on in the fight.

People were on their feet in expectation, that's strange because you weren't at the fight and those that were have said the complete opposite.

Out of everybody you're the one person whose opinion cannot be taken seriously, your views are so far removed from reality I can only assume you are deliberately exaggerating.

My goggles are off mate, I've given an opinion, problem with this topic is people don't respect other peoples views, if they don't like what people say they just use turns like "goggles" or "fan boy". We saw it just after the fight and we've seen it again in this very topic.

Gets boring, very quickly.

hampo171 wrote:

tunes666 wrote:

hampo171 wrote:

titaniumjaw wrote:He did moan and complain. I like groves like I said but thought he was beat fair and square so should have moved on. Once again a post on this forum is ridiculed for not being the popular opinion!!!

Why should he move on because you thought he lost? ;)Only joking, to be honest it was a controversial stoppage and most fighters would have lodged the complaint. Shouldn't be forgotten that Froch promised him a rematch after the fight only to backtrack on that offer and start trying to get a fight with Chavez JR.

Backtrack?

Froch never backtracked, this is a Groves fan myth.  He stated he did not NEED the rematch and was looking at his options and rightfully asserted his position.  Everyone knows to make a fight both fighters need to agree a contract. So now Groves who just lost and was and still is the challenger can demand a rematch and any contract he likes, or it means Froch is backtracking?  He then offered Groves a contract which Groves turned down and THEN asked the IBF to make it mandatory because he thought this would mean Froch had to offer him more money or lose the best, which was not the case and Groves basically ended up with the same contract offer Froch first gave him... and hence the fight went ahead.

Froch didn't want any part of this rematch and that is something I firmly believe. Everytime he was asked about it he would say I won, why do I need a rematch? I'm looking at fighting Chavez instead. That fight ended in such a way that he should have jumped at the chance to rematch Groves and show everyone that he was about to stop him and that the first fight was a fluke. Instead we heard how he was going to face Ward (nobody wants to see that fight again) or Chaves JR who hadn't fought at the weight at that point.

No he did not say that, you are twisting what he said, and know full well that he was also winding Groves up who was desperate for the rematch... He was also right to take credit for his win.

He said he was looking at his options and that Groves was not the only fight he could have, But when we also know from Hearn that during those comments He was in negotiations with Groves, it pretty much tells us that Froch was simply asserting he was the rightful champ and held the cards... which in the end proved to be the case, with him taking the lions share.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:People were on their feet in expectation, that's strange because you weren't at the fight and those that were have said the complete opposite.

So in on TV were the people screaming and the people standing up around the ring just stand in's?

You have no idea why they were standing and screaming that's the point Tunes, judging by the reaction after the fight they weren't expecting an imminent stoppage.

Tunes I don't know anything about what was going on away from the public eye and neither do you, why are you trying to pass what you say as gospel?

hampo171 wrote:Tunes I don't know anything about what was going on away from the public eye and neither do you, why are you trying to pass what you say as gospel?

You are the one who has made the false statements, so the question should be directed at you. If Froch was backtracking then why was Hearn negotiating with Groves?, why was Groves able to turn down a contract?

I have made an opinion Tunes, I didn't state a fact. Worth remembering that talk of contracts only appeared after Chavez JR announced he had signed to rematch Vera, before that there was strong talk from both Hearn and Froch that they wanted that fight in the States.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You have no idea why they were standing and screaming that's the point Tunes, judging by the reaction after the fight they weren't expecting an imminent stoppage.

You are talking nonsense, you do not have to be at a fight to have an impression on what the crowd where doing, For example they were booing at the end, I know this as I could heard it, even though I was not there. Just as during the build up of the stoppage I could also head the crowd screaming.

I have also got friends that went to the fight and have a different account that you have... one of which is a Groves fan.

The booing was very pronounced and obvious, the cheering was not, at that point in the fight it could have been for either fighter. Chris and Rowley both talk a lot of sense so i'll take their opinion on the matter over 'your friend'.

"Shouldn't be forgotten that Froch promised him a rematch after the fight only to backtrack on that offer and start trying to get a fight with Chavez JR."

were your words, this to me is a statement, no less so than any I have made.

First of all Froch did not promise him a rematch, he was being boo'ed by lost of people because the Reff made a call a few seconds too quickly.

He then told the crowd what they wanted to hear, and said why not have a rematch.

So this is him "promising him a rematch"? ... No, its not. And with common sense applied what a fighter says moments after a fight while his adrenaline is still in his vains and with the crowd being negative should also really not be taken as a contract, even if he did (which he didn't) promise him a rematch.

And lastly it is not my opinion that Froch offered Groves a rematch contract, this is a fact.
It is a fact that while Froch said he was looking at other fights, Hearn was in negotiations with Groves, this is a fact.

Its also a fact that Groves turned down his offer prior to appealing to the IBF to be mandatory.

None of those are my opinions, they are facts,  hence why I hold them over your opinions.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The booing was very pronounced and obvious, the cheering was not, at that point in the fight it could have been for either fighter. Chris and Rowley both talk a lot of sense so i'll take their opinion on the matter over 'your friend'.

I was not asking you to take note of what my friends reported, However, I do

And I do not agree that the Crowds volume was not noticeably louder at that point of the stoppage, I think the Crowd were sounding very excited...

It is my opinion that Froch didn't want anything to do with the rematch, it is fact that Froch said after the fight he'd give him a rematch, it is my opinion that Froch didn't actually want anything to do and wanted the easier fight in Chavez JR.

I'm off to watch the Enzo card, but before I go I'll say this. Tunes you have argued Froch's corner since the fight happened and defended him as if he were a family member. You have accused people of having goggles on or being fan boys, and ironically the only person who has come across like that is you.

tunes666 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The booing was very pronounced and obvious, the cheering was not, at that point in the fight it could have been for either fighter. Chris and Rowley both talk a lot of sense so i'll take their opinion on the matter over 'your friend'.

I was not asking you to take note of what my friends reported, However, I do

And I do not agree that the Crowds volume was not noticeably louder at that point of the stoppage, I think the Crowd were sounding very excited...

Doesn't a crowd pretty much always get a bit louder when something is happening in a boxing match? The build up to the stoppage was an exciting part of the fight. It was one of many. I'm sure there were loads of points where the crowd were screaming. I'm not sure that it says anything about the validity of the stoppage. Is that what's being said here, or have I misread this? Seems like a pretty wacky discussion.

Strongback wrote:5 months regurgitating the same old crap.  The topic that never dies.

What, Froch-Groves or your unsupportable hatred of Team Eddie??

hampo171 wrote:

tunes666 wrote:

hampo171 wrote:

titaniumjaw wrote:He did moan and complain. I like groves like I said but thought he was beat fair and square so should have moved on. Once again a post on this forum is ridiculed for not being the popular opinion!!!

Why should he move on because you thought he lost? ;)Only joking, to be honest it was a controversial stoppage and most fighters would have lodged the complaint. Shouldn't be forgotten that Froch promised him a rematch after the fight only to backtrack on that offer and start trying to get a fight with Chavez JR.

Backtrack?

Froch never backtracked, this is a Groves fan myth.  He stated he did not NEED the rematch and was looking at his options and rightfully asserted his position.  Everyone knows to make a fight both fighters need to agree a contract. So now Groves who just lost and was and still is the challenger can demand a rematch and any contract he likes, or it means Froch is backtracking?  He then offered Groves a contract which Groves turned down and THEN asked the IBF to make it mandatory because he thought this would mean Froch had to offer him more money or lose the best, which was not the case and Groves basically ended up with the same contract offer Froch first gave him... and hence the fight went ahead.

Froch didn't want any part of this rematch and that is something I firmly believe. Everytime he was asked about it he would say I won, why do I need a rematch? I'm looking at fighting Chavez instead. That fight ended in such a way that he should have jumped at the chance to rematch Groves and show everyone that he was about to stop him and that the first fight was a fluke. Instead we heard how he was going to face Ward (nobody wants to see that fight again) or Chaves JR who hadn't fought at the weight at that point.

Why are you wasting your time speaking to Tunes of all people?

He's a massive Froch fanboy, combined with a massive JdG fanboy, which makes him pretty much the world's least objective commentator on anything to do with George Groves.

Someone, might have been C_S, even provided super-slomo footage of the stoppage last time out and Tunes couldn't even bring himself to count the punches properly!!

The very fact that this result has spawned so much debate, for me, demonstrates that the stoppage was a poor one.

It is perfectly legitimate to hold the opinion that; Groves was gassing and Froch was seconds from finishing the job. Personally, I think that's nonsense, but either way, it is an opinion based 100% on supposition. No one knows what would have happened had Foster allowed Groves to continue and for that reason alone the stoppage was premature and the rematch is fully justified.

I also think it's pretty obvious that, for whatever reason, Froch didn't want the rematch and would have preferred JCC Jr. in Vegas.

No one apart from Froch's brother Tunesy is saying it wasn't early the stoppage..

He was in trouble though

I think that this is a master stroke by Eddie, getting his fight events in the minds of sports fans using every type of media out there.
The UK sports scene will be buzzing come fight night, and thanks to Hearn boxing will be talked about by the casual sports fans at work on Monday morning.