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Post by Fernando on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 3:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

Formula 1 returns to the Far East this week as China hosts the fourth round of the 2014 Formula 1 season.
It has been Lewis Hamilton's season so far, with the Mercedes driver having won two of the first three races.
On a circuit at which he has triumphed twice before, can Hamilton pick up win number three and build on his early charge for a second Formula 1 title?

The Shanghai International Circuit always provides a frenetic and challenging race, thanks to its long straights, eclectic mix of corners and unpredictable weather.
The 5.451km track features the longest straight on the F1 calendar, the end of which also offers the best overtaking point on the circuit.
The Hermann Tilke-designed circuit's corners are predominantly low speed, some of them having an extended radius with tightening arcs, posing a real challenge to drivers.

Just over a decade ago, the area where the Shanghai International Circuit currently stands was nothing more than marshland. It was converted into an F1 venue in 2003, and held its first race the following year.

Located on the outskirts of Shanghai, the circuit shares similarities with the Chinese city's futuristic style. The stand-out feature is the wing that connects the main grandstand with the pit building over the track.
The team bases in the paddock are arranged like pavilions in a lake, designed to resemble the ancient Yuyuan Garden in Shanghai.
The main stand can hold 29,000 spectators, with the whole venue having the capacity for 200,000 race goers.

Weather Forecast: http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/1796236
Source: bbc sport

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Post by Guest on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 11:35 am

Not a great race but glad Hamilton won his third race, can he match Vettel`s winning run from last year. Rosberg has always been inferior, he can have bad days & still finish second, such is the dominance of the Mercedes. Season is hardly over, reliability plays a huge roll. Will go down to the wire as I've described few weeks back, if the DNF`s are shared evenly. If Hamilton has a DNF, it takes four or fives wins just to claw it back such is the points system, that's my only worry.

Great drive from Alonso, Kimi`s on holiday. Vettel being shown up is no surprise, should be an interesting battle though this season.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 11:41 am

don't people think Raikkonen's been a real let-down this year so far? People were expecting great things from the Kimi/Alonso partnership, and while Alonso has continued to pull out pretty good results, Raikkonen just hasn't got going at all.

Will be interesting to see if RB take any action against Vettel: it's one thing to ignore team orders when your two cars are well out in front and you want to scrap for the win, but in the middle of the pack when you're scrapping for points and podium places? potentially cost RB three points today...

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Post by mystiroakey on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 11:44 am

I thought kimi would be a real annoying partner to alonso. He is so fast - but only when he can be bothered. Alonso is allways on the money. But kimi has that ability to put in fastest laps

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Post by GSC on Sun 20 Apr 2014, 12:03 pm

Like I said, titles already wrapped up. Merc even more dominant than any of the last 4 RBs
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Post by Don Caboose on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 11:36 am

Jesus there are some idiots on this board.

The conclusions being made after 4 races of a very different Formula 1 are quite simply a but premature. The only thing that we know for sure this season is team mate comparisons in adjusting to handling extreme torque and lower downforce.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 12:01 pm

The only way of measuring greatness (for me) is using these benchmarks:-

How drivers compare against their team-mates as both have same car specs. This year (so far) Lewis looks like he has the edge over Rosberg by some way.

How drivers do in poorer cars or at least not the fastest on the grid. To be fair of them all I'd say only Alonso has snared a world title in a car not clearly the fastest on the grid which he done at Renault beating Schumacher at Ferrari.
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Post by banbrotam on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 12:55 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:To be fair of them all I'd say only Alonso has snared a world title in a car not clearly the fastest on the grid which he done at Renault beating Schumacher at Ferrari.


And Hamilton in 2008. At the start of that season the Ferrari was clearly the fastest car. He only won the opener because both the Ferrari drivers fouled up (Kimi memorably putting it on the dirt at turn 5 or 6!!)

MM even put Hamilton on a three stopper at Turkey in a brave attempt to get near. It worked as he split the two Ferrari's and was arguably his greatest drive up to that point.

OK so they (Ferrari / McLaren) were more even from Monaco onwards, but if Alonso had been in that Ferrari rather than the disinterested Kimster or frankly average Massa - he's had won the title by a mile

I also think Kimters 2007 win shouldn't be underestimated either

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Post by GSC on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 1:16 pm

When you gain a second per straight on your nearest rivals it's a 1 team championship
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Post by banbrotam on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 1:39 pm

GSC wrote:When you gain a second per straight on your nearest rivals it's a 1 team championship

Oh, it is this season, so far

I remind you that Ferrari were very dominant (not as like this) in 2008 and were caught up

Problem is for the others, arguably the best driver on the grid is going to be in a car that will be at least as good as the rest for the remaining part of the season, who has no issue starting 5th on the grid and ending up higher. Indeed Hamilton relishes a scrap

I could see Alonso challenging, but not that greatly

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Post by Guest on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 2:49 pm

The constructors is done & dusted, drivers is still questionable. If Hamilton has reliability, he takes this championship with ease, although not by a significant points haul, due to the fact Rosberg will almost certainly be finishing second. Do you really envisage RB or Ferrari catching up over a second?....I don't. The Mercedes power unit is dominant & will remain the difference maker throughout the Championship.

Remember, how long will RB & co. remain focused on this season? Not long. They already believe the titles are slipping away, give it to Canada or Silverstone & Hamilton or Rosberg's lead will be huge. Mercedes will also have the works engine update to further enhance their advantage. It's just like last year, RB were so dominant, Mercedes & Ferrari stopped developing & it allowed RB or Vettel to win nine races in a row. There's only so long Mercedes' rivals will continue to focus on this year.

It's a two horse race, get over it & just enjoy it. This is F1 & the way it unfolds, there is usually always a dominant car. I'm just thankful it's Hamilton who's now had the change in luck & we can enjoy a British driver winning F1 races, instead of Vettel. There's some fantastic inter-team battles this year throughout the field, which is really giving us a great barometer or measurement of how good some drivers really are.

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 2:56 pm

watching ricardo fighting against vettel will be very interesting.

watching hamilton smash every race isnt- but if its going to be any one- I want it to be him.

As others have mentioned- I want to see more from Kimi v Alonso.

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Post by GSC on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 3:22 pm

You can improve the car sure. You can't do much about a massive engine deficit
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Post by dyrewolfe on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 11:37 am

Indeed.

Is any further engine/powertrain development allowed, or are the teams stuck with what they've got now?

If I'm completely honest I do feel a little sorry for Red Bull and Ferrari, having such significant power deficits. It really is killing this season as a contest, so far.


With regard to Seb ignoring team orders, I saw in the post-race interview he said he initially ignored it, because he didn't understand he and Daniel were on different strategies. Apparently RB were planning to 3-stop Vettel.

Oddly enough, the team then asked him to stay out and he ended up 2-stopping anyway. I wonder if the team are getting wise to the fact Vettel will ignore team orders when it suits him and are coming up with ways of combatting this? Wink

With regards to the actual overtake, I can't decide whether he let Ricciardo pass or not. It looked like a late brake into the corner, which caused him to run wide, but I suppose he could equally have eased off just enough to let his team mate through.

Not too bothered either way, though I'd prefer if it was a legit pass, as Daniel can then claim to have overtaken fairly and squarely. Even without that, he ended up finishing 20+ seconds ahead of Vettel, so he obviously had superior speed (or Seb was just sulking and cruising round).

Regardless, I am loving the way Ricciardo is currently outshining Vettel - long may it continue!


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Post by GSC on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 11:41 am

I don't really have an issue with Vettel. He thought they were on the same strategy so refused to move.

I think among other things its Ricciardo free to race under no expectations. Vettel is having to manage seeing his 5th world title disappear a second a lap down the straights
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Post by banbrotam on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:43 pm

It's all new to Seb and like Hamilton in 2009 he'll be far better after this season

Fact is Hamilton and Alonso are more used to getting the best our of car that is second best, they can shrug off the many disappointments that can give

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 9:49 pm

The thing is though that Alonso and Hamilton have been in an inferior car quite often but key is they invariably may not win titles they always were very competitive with team-mate more often than not coming out on top. This year it is interesting to see (so far) Ricciardo having the upper hand on Vettel despite him still being pretty raw in F1.
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Post by GSC on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 10:02 pm

Hamilton lost to Button before we start the anti vettel crusade
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 10:07 pm

Yes but lets remember that Button was a world champion whilst Ricciardo is a raw F1 driver with (is it two season's experience) whilst Button was a seasoned pro.
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Post by Fernando on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 10:11 pm

It is a fair point but Ricciardo will be used to a lack of downforce unlike Seb with his diffuser where it stuck like glue. I suspect once Seb gets used to it he'll be back ahead sooner rather then later.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 10:17 pm

Well there is no guarantee that will be the case though besides that is saying Seb needs bucket loads of downforce before he can outperform his team-mate. I expect more from a four time world champion to be honest when teamed with one so green compared to others in F1.
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Post by Fernando on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 10:31 pm

What im saying is it takes time to adapt to the situation, Kimi hasn't done it,Seb hasn't done it but id bet by the end of the season Seb will be looking at Daniel in rear view mirror.

Red Bull are expecting to find around 3 tenths just in their new fuel for Barcelona so be interesting to see how much more efficient it makes them.

For the record Hamilton was at Mclaren 4 years when he got beat by Button so no excuses there. He DNF'd once more then JB as well.

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Post by GSC on Wed 23 Apr 2014, 10:51 pm

Tbh put most drivers in the Brawn and they win the title

Ricciardos hardly an F1 novice either with 50 races under his belt.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 24 Apr 2014, 5:58 am

Yes he had advantage of Brawn but so did Barrichello so in that respect he proved himself the best. Ricciardo may hardly be a novice but as far as a very top F1 driver that has certainly not been established yet and like I said I'd expect a four time world champion to be able to deal with anything that is thrown at him including a car that has less downforce than he is used to after all each driver in each car is learning this year what with the new regs.
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Post by Born Slippy on Thu 24 Apr 2014, 8:26 am

GSC wrote:Tbh put most drivers in the Brawn and they win the title

Ricciardos hardly an F1 novice either with 50 races under his belt.

Surely the same argument applies to the Red Bull over the last four years. Does anyone seriously think Alonso or Hamilton wouldn't have cleaned up had they replaced Vettel? I am sure Vettel will show what a good driver he is over the course of this season but he hasn't looked impressive so far.

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Post by GSC on Thu 24 Apr 2014, 8:54 am

The RBs only been outright dominant for 1 and a half seasons of those 4 years. Button had 1 year in a dominant car where he managed to beat Barrichellos zimmerframe
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Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 24 Apr 2014, 2:53 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes he had advantage of Brawn but so did Barrichello so in that respect he proved himself the best. Ricciardo may hardly be a novice but as far as a very top F1 driver that has certainly not been established yet and like I said I'd expect a four time world champion to be able to deal with anything that is thrown at him including a car that has less downforce than he is used to after all each driver in each car is learning this year what with the new regs.

Well said.

And trying to bring Brawn and Button into this is a strawman argument. Different regs in place that season...indeed 2009 was the season of the double-diffuser and when rear downforce began to be exploited so much more.

That season Vettel managed 4 wins to Button's 6, two in the first half and two in the second half. He also managed 3 pole positions. Even Mark Webber managed 2 wins and 4 second place finishes and only finished 14 points behind Vettel.

So, over the course of the season, the Brawn wasn't as dominant as some people think. Yes, winning 6 of the first 7 races gave Button a great start, but he struggled quite badly for the second half of the season, as other teams caught up.


The only sensible comparison to do, here and now, especially in light of the wide variation in engine performance, is between team mates. So far, its obvious that Ricciardo has been able to adapt to the new technology better than Vettel. Whether that will continue remains to be seen.

If the current trend continues, it will cast doubts over Vettel's credentials. If Seb manages to turn things around and re-assert himself as the #1 driver, it will indicate he's not a 1-dimensional driver who can only perform well with a certain type of car.
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Post by Fernando on Thu 24 Apr 2014, 10:45 pm

Mercedes say they may be forced to rethink their policy of letting Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg race freely.

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Post by Guest on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:02 am

Fernando wrote:Mercedes say they may be forced to rethink their policy of letting Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg race freely.

 Laugh 

What a load of bull****. Absolutely no reason to come out with that comment, being this early & being this dominant.

I love how on Eurosport it says, 'Mercedes might have to ban Lewis from duelling with Nico'. Nico's the one who needs to actually start getting into race position of competing with Lewis.

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Post by GSC on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:07 am

Its only really if they're evenly matched with another team and they could compromise the chance of a win by costing time. In reality nobodies likely to get close to them until at best the end of the European season, bar maybe Monaco.
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 1:10 pm

John wrote:
Fernando wrote:Mercedes say they may be forced to rethink their policy of letting Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg race freely.

 Laugh 

What a load of bull****. Absolutely no reason to come out with that comment, being this early & being this dominant.

I love how on Eurosport it says, 'Mercedes might have to ban Lewis from duelling with Nico'. Nico's the one who needs to actually start getting into race position of competing with Lewis.

Not sure what to make of that but surely LH is no.1 in real terms and in mercs terms, if anyone will be banned to duel it will be rosberg. Merc are not stupid

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 1:15 pm

Well, there was no need to come out with that comment, at this time. In any case, now team orders are legal again, everyone knows they are free to use whatever tactics they like to protect their standings in the drivers/constructors championships.

I think maybe Wolff was just being the typically cautious German and letting us know we may not see Bahrain type situations all that often, if other teams start to close the gap to Mercedes.

Disappointing for race fans, but ultimately a sensible thing to do. I just hope they are allowed to continue racing as long as possible.
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 1:24 pm

Yeah I have only just read the comment after posting- It really isn't as bad as it may be presumed- He is just being cautious and saying if we do lose ground on rivals we will utilise driver orders- but the IF is huge.

And they dont seem to favour either driver - well they haven't told us who they favour anyway.

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Post by Fernando on Fri 25 Apr 2014, 10:00 pm

We all know who they favor Mysti. If a German won in a Mercedes that's about as good as it gets for them.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Mon 28 Apr 2014, 11:58 am

Fernando wrote:We all know who they favor Mysti. If a German won in a Mercedes that's about as good as it gets for them.


Well, if Lewis starts suffering mysterious mechanical / electrical failures, you can bet the hysteria and vitriol will skyrocket...



...as will sales of tin foil...  Wink 
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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Apr 2014, 12:08 pm

yes but the merc engines are built in the UK, engineered by brit engineers. Obvious brawn has just departed, but not sure how much input the austrian has had on this car

Just because its called merc doesnt really mean its a german operation- its very much brit/german and LH is clearly the better and more marketable driver

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Post by skyeman on Wed 30 Apr 2014, 3:12 pm

Panoramra on Monday. Really made BE look like a convict in waiting.

Hope the BBC keep the 50% of live TV races after the contract Wink 

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Post by dyrewolfe on Thu 01 May 2014, 1:34 pm

Well, its not hard to make him look like a convict, as the evidence against him was pretty compelling.

Missed the Panorama programme, but caught the news he'd avoided paying back all his £1bn tax bill. Apparently he agreed to a £10million out of court settlement with HMRC.

Eclestone avoids potential £1.2bn tax bill

He's unlikely to see the inside of a prison, but I wonder how anyone can justify his continued control of F1.
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 01 May 2014, 9:40 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:Well, its not hard to make him look like a convict, as the evidence against him was pretty compelling.

Missed the Panorama programme, but caught the news he'd avoided paying back all his £1bn tax bill. Apparently he agreed to a £10million out of court settlement with HMRC.

Eclestone avoids potential £1.2bn tax bill

He's unlikely to see the inside of a prison, but I wonder how anyone can justify his continued control of F1.

The problem is dyrewolfe he is like the mafia. He has influence over everybody at the FIA which he has filled with puppets and yes men. He has been in court more times than Dave Lee Travis and evidence is irrefutable but he has built impenetrable defence around himself at the FIA so they won't remove him. He is well into his 80s now though so I can bide my time as the clock is a-ticking....
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