Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

by It Must Be Love Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:20 pm

I wouldn't mind Klopp replacing Moyes, if he does leave.

by It Must Be Love Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:23 pm

Is Rafa Benitez available ?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:37 pm

FootballLight wrote:Look again DZ. It is Azpilicueta's left leg that hits his achilles of Altidore's which makes him fall. Because his left leg is in an unnatural position and it then swings round once again. It is hard to describe, but it's the best way of saying it.

I'm not particularly sure its nailed on. Altidore places his foot quite unnaturally and not in a way that controls the ball. But Dave shouldn't be sliding and possibly thus impedes. I can see why either decision could be given frankly.

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:37 pm

Great reading that freak..

Palace down on everyone's as well

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:39 pm

Do you think Holloway would have kept them up? By what we had to go on, it seems fair.

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:44 pm

From Moyes point of view.

He should want to go to be honest.. Put it down to an impossible job(poisoned chalice). Get a job at west ham or something and crack on again.

These players cannot compete with citeh, chelsea, Arsernal(really top side when everyone is fit again) or liverpool.

United dont just need a Kross, they need more than that. And moyes just cannot get the best out of players that are hanging on a knife edge- Players that could go one way or the other.

Give the problem to someone else.

We have all(bar united fans) been predicting the demise of united due to fergie not replacing players like scholes, giggs, ronaldo, rio, vidic, etc

I thought 4 years ago he would have made sure he got bale and wilshire(seemed obvious replacements at the time for giggs and scholes.. He didnt. But his magic somehow won them a title last year.

United need 3-5 quality players or they will still be lucky to get 5th next year whoever manages them

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:44 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Do you think Holloway would have kept them up? By what we had to go on, it seems fair.

no.

and yes.

still good reading.

by Guest Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:44 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Great reading that freak..

Palace down on everyone's as well

Duty - bless him - believed.

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:45 pm

FreekShow wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Great reading that freak..

Palace down on everyone's as well
Duty - bless him - believed.

good ole Duty. Is he coming back??

He did however predict Man U to win!!

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:45 pm

I do think the Moyes situation is as unique as anything ever seen in football. It was hard enough to replace a legend in the old days, but in modern football its ridiculous. Who knows, if he starts the season with easier fixtures, got in one major signing etc then it could have been completely different.

by Guest Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:48 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Great reading that freak..

Palace down on everyone's as well
Duty - bless him - believed.

good ole Duty. Is he coming back??

He did however predict Man U to win!!

He told me he'll pop his head in the door when we win the World Cup.

Lets hope we see Duty again.

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:50 pm

He needs to come back with an england to victory thread ..

Come on duty . I know you are reading.

by Guest Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:52 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I do think the Moyes situation is as unique as anything ever seen in football. It was hard enough to replace a legend in the old days, but in modern football its ridiculous. Who knows, if he starts the season with easier fixtures, got in one major signing etc then it could have been completely different.

He's a fish out of water. Wasn't the first and won't be the last.

Sh!t happens. Utd will ride this wave and come again.

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:57 pm

I cant see how he can stay- And i dont think he wants to. He doesnt have respect from the players. Its pretty obvious. No point sticking about- HE needs to go for his own sake- lets forget about united for a minute- I can see him just resigning before he is sacked

by GSC Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:00 pm

All I'll say is be careful what you wish for. The majority of knee jerk decisions end up going 1 way. Lot further to fall than 7th.

by Guest Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:07 pm

GSC wrote:All I'll say is be careful what you wish for. The majority of knee jerk decisions end up going 1 way. Lot further to fall than 7th.

A club of Man U's stature more often than not don't.

9 months of inadequacy suggests that it wouldn't be knee jerk anyway.

Successful clubs on the continent make the change when needed, hence the success.

If Moyes leads Utd into next season I'll be delighted. I wish for that.

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:08 pm

He cant stay on - players wont want to go there- and most players want out under him.

he has to go.

Man U need to a big name manager just to scalp players.. Moyes wont attract anyone

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:10 pm

I think it'd look weak to resign. If he wants to be the Fergie replacement then he deals with it how Fergie did: get rid of those who defy him and go about things his way. If he gets sacked, so be it, but don't let the fear of that weaken your approach.

Funnily enough, I think even if Moyes does go during next season, he should be the one to lead over summer. Then he can shoulder all the problems that come with such a restructuring job. More importantly, any new manager coming in will take longer to decide who he wants to stay.

Its incredibly hard to restructure a squad as much as Moyes needs to. He should be given the chance; that way he either succeeds or he doesnt make it work but takes the flack from the original redesign.

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:13 pm

so who does he get rid off then dolph- every single player?

because none of them are playing for him bar the goalie.

I thought welbeck was one of the only players to actually start moving forward under him- know we find out he wants out!

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:29 pm

So Moyes again said the team played well yet made two mistakes.

Is he actually insane? that is a serious question by the way. No disrespect to everton and all that- good team- but if you think a team has played well and only had one chance against them- I as a palace fan would think we hadn't done enough. He kept saying that start of the season " we played well, we were just unlucky"

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:35 pm

Welbeck is just being a baby. He got disciplined for fair reasons and he's now kicking up noise.

He gets rid of those he wants to. There are going to be mass exits with or without Moyes anyway. I think he will have analysed the whole squad and he'll be desperate to keep: Mata, Januzaj, Rooney, Welbeck, Jones, Smalling, De Gea, Evans.

Then anyone else can go, depending on circumstances surrounding each individual.

by mystiroakey Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:38 pm

you are talking about keeping the best players bar RVP and letting approx 10 out and then replacing them- you just cant change a team like that over a summer - especially one with a world cup.

he will have to hold on to quite a few that have let him down and still stick with them

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:00 pm

I know you can't, and it would be even harder for a new manager to do. But those are the ones he is desperate to keep, the others its on an individual basis; by which I mean I don't think there will be definite outs as such because an offer of double the price could come in for Nani over Young then you sell Nani.

I do think he can replace 5-6 players though. I think Nani and then one of Young/Valencia can go. I don't think Giggs and Rio need replacing any more as their influence isn't a replaceable factor. In theory, Giggs and Rio won't be replaced anyway so don't count, more players can go out than they need to bring in basically.

For example if Giggs, Rio, Evra, Vidic, Young, Nani, Hernandez all leave. In that I think they only need to buy a new centre back and a new left back.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:11 pm

For what its worth, I'm in almost the same position with Moyes as I am with Sam. I'm teetering off the fence into the Twist garden with Sam and teetering off the fence into the Stick garden with Moyes. But I would say on both that I would completely understand either decision with either manager's position.

I think if United came out and said "Moyes has underachieved on our objectives and we feel the team needs a fresh approach" etc then I'd get it but I'd also understand if they said "We understand the magnitude of the task at hand and trust David Moyes to lead us through the summer and into a stronger season next term".

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:18 am

People exaggerate how much rebuilding needs done. Moyes is making it look worse than it is.

On current form only de gea looks like a player worth retaining.

Moyes should be getting more from a side that won the championship last year and pushed Real Madrid very hard in the cl.

There is no way that squad should be finishing 7th.

by FootballLight Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:28 am

Rebuilding is a case of start from point one. Moyes is not doing it in the right way. Maybe, he should have just kept the same squad as last season and then tried that out this season?

The players that United need are: De Gea, Jones, Rafael, Smalling, Evans, Fletcher, Carrick, Kagawa, Januzaj, Valencia, Rooney, Van Persie. That is it for me. Man United need to use the width of Old Trafford by signing some new wingers, keeping some of their current squad for back up, selling some for extra funds and then signing some better starting players at the back and central midfield and then they will have a squad sorted for next season.

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:02 am

That looks good on paper but Moyes is getting nothing out of most of those players.

Only De Gea has had a good season, Rooney has been very patchy and Welbeck has scored a few more goals - everyone else has been worse than last year, much worse.

A year ago you would have said we need a midfielder and a left back, now you look through the side and we look like we need 2 fullbacks a centre half, 2 centre mids and some wide players. How do we explain that decline in 1 year?

This side under moyes with a new left back and centre midfielder will still be terrible.

by mystiroakey Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:22 am

Ent wrote:People exaggerate how much rebuilding needs done. Moyes is making it look worse than it is.

On current form only de gea looks like a player worth retaining.

Moyes should be getting more from a side that won the championship last year and pushed Real Madrid very hard in the cl.

There is no way that squad should be finishing 7th.

the team only needs to be rebuilt if moyes is there!! Good managers can make your players look good. Its been said..

Certain people think moyes needs to stay on- well if he does-almost everyone needs to go- because he cant work with them

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:30 am

mystiroakey wrote:
Ent wrote:People exaggerate how much rebuilding needs done. Moyes is making it look worse than it is.

On current form only de gea looks like a player worth retaining.

Moyes should be getting more from a side that won the championship last year and pushed Real Madrid very hard in the cl.

There is no way that squad should be finishing 7th.

the team only needs to be rebuilt if moyes is there!! Good managers can make your players look good. Its been said..

Certain people think moyes needs to stay on- well if he does-almost everyone needs to go- because he cant work with them

Exactly.

No one is disputing we need some new players and that a new team will be crafted, but new teams don't contain 11 new players - under Moyes it looks like we need that. He gets absolutely nothing out of the current playing staff. Hell he gets absolutely nothing out of the 2 players he has shelled out 65 million quid on.

It is just an absolute disaster. A train wreck. People feel sorry for us, there is pity in the pundits voices when they talk about our dire performances. This after 2 decades of people wanting anyone but us to win. It's embarassingly bad, couldn't be any worse.

by mystiroakey Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:36 am

Take palace and liverpool for example.

players being laughed at.

now look at players like punch, ward, henderson and sterling..

Even Holloway could get something out of Zaha...

Moyes cant even get RVP to wake up in the morning. Mata looks like a mini version of rooney in recent games- both are serious players- yet both look bored and just basically cannot be asssed.

by mystiroakey Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:42 am

"People feel sorry for us,"

i know we all do. its what we felt for liverpool.

give it 30 years mate and you will be back Wink

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:43 am

Top players perform in all situations and have serious pride in their performances.

I don't buy they aren't trying, there is just something very wrong with the way they are prepared for games and sent out to play, plus they are now lacking in confidence.

by **Hero** Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:44 am

Some players have certainly gone into reverse.
Rafael a year ago was challenging for best rightback in the league, looking a player that could really become a great. This season's he's been a liability.

The positives from the season:
The acquisition of Mata, the resigning of Rooney, the growing of De Gea as a genuine world class keeper and the emergence of Januzaj.

The negatives:
Everything else. Fellaini has been shocking, from the player that at Everton destroyed Utd, he's done the same job from within. Kagawa, the fans choice to lead Utd forward yet he's never really shown the talent he has. The crop of young 20somethings like Jones, Smalling etc, none really grasping their chance to show the defence sans Vidic and Rio are as assured as previous years.
There is still a core framework of players that give Utd a base to work upon, but they need to step and be counted on, if though that Moyes has lost their respect and the dressing room is against him then his time has come and gone.
There's also a few players out on loan that could have an effect, Powell, Zaha (if he gets his act together), Lingard, Barmby. Youngsters too coming through possibly such as Varela, Pereira that could start getting a few games in the League cup etc. compare those crop emerging though compared to what Chelsea have built up currently of next gen talent and it shows they've got a huge advantage in the coming years with the likes of Hazard (Thorgan), Piazon, Van Aanholt, Courtious, Lukaku, Zouma, Romeu etc

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:46 am

mystiroakey wrote:"People feel sorry for us,"

i know we all do. its what we felt for liverpool.

give it 30 years mate and you will be back

I wouldn't be surprised.

Last summer was arguably the biggest in football history with all the elite clubs needing new managers and several big name and marquee transfers being made. With another influx of money and FFP on the horizon we needed to get it right. We got in badly wrong and it will take some fixing. I'm not expecting to challenge for trophies for a long, long time.

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:50 am

Hero wrote:

The positives from the season:
The acquisition of Mata, the resigning of Rooney, the growing of De Gea as a genuine world class keeper and the emergence of Januzaj.

Is Mata a positive? He has had no impact, he has been poor if we are honest. We already had 2 players who liked to play in that area not being utilised properly.

Was giving Rooney 300k a week a good idea? Great strike against West ham aside he has been poor since then and if we are all honest he isn't a good enough player to warrant that kind of financial outlay, he routinely misses straightforward chances and isn't a play maker/no 10 in any way.

De Gea has been in great form and Januzaj coming through has been good. Not good enough for an entire season.

by mystiroakey Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:53 am

honestly ENT- FFP is playing into your hands. Because you have a lot more to spend with your revenues.

Give it 2-3 years and you will be back. I cant see you lot getting better than 5th next season- because it will be incredibly difficult to get your players up to a level or sign enough to replace whoever manages you.

However if Roy(loves united players for some unknown reason) plays some of your players in the world cup like jones, rooney and smalling- they may get there confidence back from that. Good teams are allways built around a core of home players.

I personally wouldn't start a single united player if I was roy. But Roy is Roy....

by mystiroakey Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:55 am

Ent wrote:
Hero wrote:

The positives from the season:
The acquisition of Mata, the resigning of Rooney, the growing of De Gea as a genuine world class keeper and the emergence of Januzaj.

Is Mata a positive? He has had no impact, he has been poor if we are honest. We already had 2 players who liked to play in that area not being utilised properly.

Was giving Rooney 300k a week a good idea? Great strike against West ham aside he has been poor since then and if we are all honest he isn't a good enough player to warrant that kind of financial outlay, he routinely misses straightforward chances and isn't a play maker/no 10 in any way.

De Gea has been in great form and Januzaj coming through has been good. Not good enough for an entire season.

signing mata and resigning rooney at least gives other top players some hope for the team though ent- without either it would be harder to attract anyone.

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:58 am

England will be getting a hiding at the world cup so I doubt they'll be inspired by that lol.

Yeah Rooney and Mata are names but both are playing terribly do I don't see the incentive - I do take your point though.

Don't think FFP plays into anyones hands, a 50 million a year sponsorship deal sounds great but that pays for Mata and a years wages, don't see us being the biggest spenders in europe on the back of that. Don't see it as a big advantage for us.

by mystiroakey Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:00 am

England are gonna do well this WC - I can see it.

semi final.

by Liam Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:06 am

We need replacements definitely but the squad is still good enough to be at least challenging for top 4! There's just no tactics there. I have no idea what sort of way he wants us to play, I really don't. In Rodgers first year you could see what he was trying to do with Moyes I don't have a clue.

He went from trying to make us hard to beat, to passing it out to the wings constantly and crossing every ball possible, to trying to become a passing side, keeping possession (like vs Everton) without any plan of how to penetrate in the final 3rd. Oh and don't forget the tactic of just sticking RVP/Rooney/januzaj/mata all out at once, with no instructions of what things he wanted them to do and just hope one of them does something brilliant.

It's been a mess, he's out of his depth and we need to act now before it's too late. No one will want to come to utd and play under Moyes. Reus has already had a pop at the way we play!

by **Hero** Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:07 am

The FFP seriously works in Utd's favour though as other clubs may be scrabbling to sell players to balance the books to get into Europe, we can spend £150m and it not affect us (although it really won't affect us next season not being in Europe so we can splash as much as possible!)
I'm certainly not as pessimistic as Ent in regards to the short to medium term future for Utd, there's only Chelsea and City that can both outspend us on transfer fees and wages, add to that the global pull of the brand which despite what Ent thinks is a big lure, join Utd as the new no7 and you instantly become one of the most known footballers on the planet, that will appeal to a lot of players.

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:09 am

I doubt it.

Will probably get out of the group but it isn't unrealistic to think they will go home very early.

If they don't win the group Colombia are likely opponents in the second round and they have a good side. Brazil would be next (most likely).

Spain or Holland in 1/4s if they win the group.

Hard draw, a semi final would be an outstanding achievement.

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:16 am

Hero wrote:The FFP seriously works in Utd's favour though as other clubs may be scrabbling to sell players to balance the books to get into Europe, we can spend £150m and it not affect us (although it really won't affect us next season not being in Europe so we can splash as much as possible!)
I'm certainly not as pessimistic as Ent in regards to the short to medium term future for Utd, there's only Chelsea and City that can both outspend us on transfer fees and wages, add to that the global pull of the brand which despite what Ent thinks is a big lure, join Utd as the new no7 and you instantly become one of the most known footballers on the planet, that will appeal to a lot of players.

I don't really buy into the brand, it's the players and team that make the club popular and well known globally.

If the players play rubbish, we don't play good football, don't win trophies and aren't in europe there is no brand. I wouldn't underestimate how insanely popular Beckham and Ronaldo where and their impact in 'the brand' you just need to look at how much money Real Madrid made out of both of those players to see.

You can also see Barcelona rocket up the Deloitte list when they started winning things under Laporta/Rikhard regime.

by mystiroakey Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:18 am

well yes get a manager that top players respect- keep Mata and rooney and you have a place where players will want to come.

keep moyes and it probally wont make a difference.

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:21 am

I'd want to see how things develop under a new manager.

Genuinely think we will struggle to get top players in the summer, it will surprise people.

Could very well be wrong, but I've a bad feeling about the summer.

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:27 am

Slightly championship based discussion but Burnley could be promoted if they win today.

by mystiroakey Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:28 am

You do a lot on your 12 hour shift dont you ent!

by Ent Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:31 am

mystiroakey wrote:You do a lot on your 12 hour shift dont you ent!

Feast or famine, quiet so far!

Touch wood.

by Guest Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:42 am

Ent wrote:I'd want to see how things develop under a new manager.

Genuinely think we will struggle to get top players in the summer, it will surprise people.

Could very well be wrong, but I've a bad feeling about the summer.

He already has his excuses lined up saying he won'ty be able to conduct his business in a timely fashion and that he expects the world cup will hinder his ability to sign players going into pre-season

Personally I think he'll be lucky to still have a job at the end of the season, but if next season approaches and he still has the same team as this year then whatever fans are on his sidewill quickly turn on him

by **Hero** Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:43 am

Even in the 26 year drought when Liverpool were winning everything we were the most supported club in England, the year we dropped a division we still were getting more at OT than any other club and in the modern era the way the club has marketed itself as a brand is light years ahead of its rivals. It really does make a difference. The club is pulling in £150m profit every year, that's with the debt payoff and it'll still be well over £100m next year despite no CL football.
Compare it to F1, Ferrari haven't won that for a few years, but they're still the team everyone idealises, that drivers would still want to join and what appeals to the global audience.

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