Man Utd - The Gaalacticos thread

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Post by Ent on Tue 15 Apr 2014, 11:13 pm

John wrote:Can see the same thing happening with Kroos, when Bayern stump up the wage & then the pressure will be on Moyes massively, after constantly telling everyone that he's been given the nod by these agents that these players wanted to come to United.

He shouldn't be saying things like that IMO. Just making things harder for himself.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 12:39 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10768925/Manchester-United-confident-of-securing-Southampton-left-back-Luke-Shaw-for-30m.html

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 8:46 am

What about someone like Tiote?

He would add some serious bite to your midfield. And offer some protection to young Carvahlo.

The talk is he'll be gone from us in the summer? Be interesting to see where he goes.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 9:19 am

Why would Man U sign Tiote when they are lining up Reus, Kroos, Carvalho, Gundogan, Garay, Shaw, Lallana and Subotic?

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Post by Ent on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 9:25 am

Tiote is the example as to why players angle for moves and jump at the chance.

Average player all in all, had a half decent season for Newcastle and was linked with a few moves - didn't really agitate and he is 28 this year with his career going nowhere really.

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Post by Guest on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 10:08 am

Reus - Don't see why you would need him now since the arrival of Mata & the emergence of Adnan.

Kroos - Will re-sign with Bayern

Carvalho - Inexperienced & not proven at top level

Gundogan - Already re-signed with Dortmund

Garay - How many years has this one rumbled on, hardly a long term option now he's nearer 30 than 25.

Shaw - United to beat City or Chelsea to this lad.....Good Luck

Lallana - Again, don't see where he fits in with Rooney & Mata.

Subotic - Massive knee injury, huge risk taking him on after a year out.

Tiote - Agree with Ent, Tiote should of forced a move 18 months ago, when he was in form. Been average since, will no doubt be at us until he's 30.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 11:16 am

John I was taking the piddle.

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Post by Guest on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 11:27 am

Yeah, I know your not trying to sign them all, possibly two at a push is realistic. Moyes has already shot himself in the foot though, shouting his mouth off about being given the nod. He's an amateur at this level, nothing is guaranteed because you've gone around Europe and had a laugh & a 'nod' with their agents. Expect to be thoroughly disappointed come August. Gundogan is ticked off the list, expect a domino effect now of other United targets suddenly being off-limits or going elsewhere.

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Post by Liam on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 12:15 pm

Although very I probably we'll get them all, I'm pretty sure carvalho and shaw are done deals and will be announced as soon as the window opens.

Kroos is stalling but there are constant reports he wants the move to utd, but again I can just see him holding for the increased wage he wants. Reus I believe will leave in the summer so that deal is most certainly on, appears a bid has gone in with kagawa almost certainly going the other way, that's the one bargaining tool we really have with Dortmund.

On lallana, big fan of his but I don't see where he fits into our formation really? More suited to Liverpools diamond formation, think he'd the perfect buy for them tbh.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 12:42 pm

Any reliable sources for these done deals?

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Post by Liam on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 12:53 pm

Two twitter accounts I follow that called the Mata transfer well before the news outlets started reporting them, only reason I follow them. I stay clear of the ITK accounts like Indy Kalia and things like that. Also Pilib de Brun, works in the media and has good links. Also very very confident that Moyes will be gone in the summer. Said contacts have been made with Van Gaal and now Klopps representatives. He's very precise with his info as well, clearly not plucking things from thin air. He's @Malachians on twitter if you want to check him out.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 2:15 pm

Shaw apparently favorited a tweet by ESPN about him going to Man Utd then unfavorited it. DUN DUN DUN!

I think your criticism, John, on what Moyes has said to the media is really clutching at nonsense. He's getting asked question after question about how his side won't be able to attract top talent. I think the answer he has given is the best one. They are going to sign players after all, and good ones, so even if they're not Kroos level every single one then he's a) put out a strong message that they are going for top level b) put out a message that United can still feel confident in signing such players c) when they do sign players he can just say hes been proven right and give off this confidence to new signings, whether they are actually top level or not.

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Post by compelling and rich on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 2:21 pm

moyes first fault has been to come out and say he interested in all these players as our current one isnt good enough. is it really any wonder that he's cant get the best of out the current squad when he's throwing stuff like that out to the media. fergie never talked about transfers where possible and always tried keeping as much under wraps as he could.

not only does it only increase media pressure but always rams up the asking price of any player when the manager is coming across so desperate

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 2:28 pm

You'd have to be thick as hell to think there weren't transfers coming. In fact, I think its a better tactic than keeping quiet. He' basically saying "I won't tolerate this level of performance" and thats fair. 

And Fergie, master of discreet, who did his level headed best to unsettle Rooney on the way out? 

I also don't see how its desperate. People know United are buying players. Its not a secret whether Moyes kept quiet or not.

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Post by GSC on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 2:58 pm

When the squads 7th and players are by all accounts underperforming, some set to leave or retire saying hes going to buy players isnt really shocking
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 6:15 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/bayern-munich/10770591/Manchester-United-target-Toni-Kroos-will-stay-at-Bayern-Munich-until-his-contract-runs-out-in-2015-insists-agent.html

Telegraph wrote:United have been tracking the 24-year-old for some time and have been willing to pay him a huge contract to play at Old Trafford next season.
However, his agent, Volker Struth, has said the 42-cap international will stay at Bayern until at least the end of his contract.
"There is no official contract offer and there is no need for United to submit one, because Toni will play at FC Bayern until at least 2015," Struth told German newspaper Bild.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 6:31 pm

Liam, why the hell would we offer Kagawa as a makeweight when he's been a big factor in the majority of our better performances this year and somebody who seems to have quickly built up an understanding with Mata?

His Dortmund connections are overblown, for some reason he's the sole player in the world who is seen as a bargaining tool when being linked with players from his former team.

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Post by Guest on Wed 16 Apr 2014, 10:24 pm

The first thing they need to do is make the decision with Moyes. Do they stick or do they twist.

With all these reports in the paper and questions from journalists a club official needs to come out and put them to rest one way or another

Once they've done that then they can look to the summer.

I dont believe any signings have been made yet, but I do expect them to work quickly rather than drag anything out like last summer

I think we'll get shaw from Southampton and I reckon it might be part of a double deal with that french lad they have at DM who doesnt seem to get half the plaudits he ďeserves

I used to think Kagawa would be used in a transfer for a dortmund player but last few games his link up play with mata makes me think he'll stay...still reckon one of reus or gundogan will be approached as well

Dont have a clue about centre backs if im honest

As for outgoings. As well as the expected old guard along with anderson and nani, I also see an exit for RVP (definately if moyes stays).

I have to say as I said t'other week I am genuinely excited for the summer

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 17 Apr 2014, 9:38 am

"@ImMatasexual: Shaw? Kroos?
Shaw ... Kroos?
Shaw Kroos?
ShawKroos?

He's gonna sign Shawcross isn't he?"

Laugh
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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 17 Apr 2014, 9:05 pm

quality olly,  laughing

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Post by Ent on Thu 17 Apr 2014, 11:05 pm

Would this deal make shaw te mort expensive fullback ever?

Don't think he is worth that.

Also, whisper it - I don't really see anything special about the lad other than he is young.

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Post by GSC on Thu 17 Apr 2014, 11:21 pm

I think Ramos was 30m too as a RB.

I agree tbh. Rather Coentrao for cheaper and the finished article
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 17 Apr 2014, 11:24 pm

Shaw's gonna need a lot of work over the next two/three years but he's got all the potential

Best thing for him would be to stay put and play regular footie
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 17 Apr 2014, 11:54 pm

He'd play regular at United. Best thing for his career would definitely be United. Everything about the place, the players he'd train with, the ethos ingrained in that club (thats with or without Moyes).

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Post by compelling and rich on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 12:45 am

when weve spent big on british its very rarely been poor business, rooney and rio being the two biggest examples of massive deals at the time but more than worth it in hindsight. add that our history of bringing through great British players, that i agree with dolph that theres no better place for him than united.

biggest thing with players from Britain or even played in britain they know exactly what the club is about. only really berba who's been a massive flop that we signed from British clubs (obviously fellaini may be added to that list but time will tell)

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Post by Ent on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 2:50 pm

I'd say young is a flop too.

For £30million you basically have free choice of most of the fullbacks in the world.

Lot to plough into an 18 year old who is decent.

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Post by Liam on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 4:42 pm

Suppose but then we are getting possibly 15 years of football for a full back already looks good in the premier league at just 18, will only improve and if he fulfils his potential then we'll have one of the best full backs in world football. Thinks its a good deal and will also instantly improve our side. See the similarities between the Rio transfer as someone had earlier alluded to, and he didn't turn out too bad did he?

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 4:43 pm

shaw is going for a lot of money- but thats the price tag needed to secure him- because every top club will also want him.

he is big, strong, young, fast and can use both feet. He is worth bundles. 30m as long as everything goes to plan is a steal- how many LB's are out there.

TBH though i think he will end up as a midfielder- he has all the attributes as a box to box midfielder that can tackle and can attack.

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Post by Ent on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 5:44 pm

Rio had played in the cl and at a World Cup.

I do think it's madness people think £39 million for an unproven teenager is a good deal.


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Post by Liam on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 5:55 pm

Yes but we're getting an 18 year left back who is already at home in the premier league, has bags of ability already and will probably play for us until at least he's in his thirties. Or we pay almost 15m for Coentrao who's never played in the PL and does have defensive issues and plays for probably 4/5 seasons.

I think its a good deal, also where you getting 39m from? I've heard its 26m done deal, possibly rising to 30m. What other left backs are out there really?

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 6:08 pm

Fellani at 27 m

Or shaw at 30 m

Its a no brainer

Baines would go for 30 and he is 10 years older.

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Post by Ent on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 6:15 pm

Typo on my phone, meant 30.

Jones and smalling had ability, neither are good enough yet after several seasons with us in pl and cl.

Just feel the fuss is because he is 18, if he was 22 would people be that bothered? Probably not.

I mean he is ok, but 30 million? That's the most expensive fullback ever and up there with most expensive defenders ever.

Just seems like utter madness to me.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 6:35 pm

thats his market value. 

Ent- would you rather have him even if he costs 30m or would you rather not have him.

That is really the only question you need to ask yourself.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 6:40 pm

Man U are a very lucky team in truth- even though they arnt a top 4 team at the moment- they still have such huge revenues..

Therefore they unlike citeh and even chelsea can afford to pick up big money transfers and not fall foul of the FFP as long as they get back into the top 4 quick that is... If they dont there  revenue will start falling year on year.

The price of of shaw at 30m has put chelsea and citeh off because of FFP. But united now as long as they can get straight back to the top or there abouts will still be the highest revenue maker in the EPL.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 6:51 pm

There is no way he's worth that much, he's a £15mil player at best even in todays climate.

Liam, Ferdinand did turn out pretty damn good but he was a proven international who had just been voted the defender of the 2002 world cup, he was already world and very young. In hindsight he was worth every single penny of that £30mil because he went on to form the best defensive partnership in world football with Vidic. A full back will never be that important to a team so shouldn't go for anywhere near the same money.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 6:53 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Man U are a very lucky team in truth- even though they arnt a top 4 team at the moment- they still have such huge revenues..

Therefore they unlike citeh and even chelsea can afford to pick up big money transfers and not fall foul of the FFP as long as they get back into the top 4 quick that is... If they dont there  revenue will start falling year on year.

The price of of shaw at 30m has put chelsea and citeh off because of FFP. But united now as long as they can get straight back to the top or there abouts will still be the highest revenue maker in the EPL.
Not really true to be honest Mysti, the bulk of our money comes from commercial deals that are locked in place for years, the champions league money doesn't impact us all that much. We have such huge reserves after making record profits year on year we're untouchable as far as FFP goes.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 6:55 pm

yes locked in for years- but how many years is the point!

if uniteds game isnt back to the point of winning stuff at that point you wont be able to renew them and then you will fall foul of FFP. 

FFP isnt a one off thing- it is there to stay based on the previous 3 years every single year- and that amount allowed to be lost each 3 year period is also going down each year.

Its not so much about CL money it is very much about commercial deals that can only be made if you are a CL team


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Post by Diggers on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 6:55 pm

mystiroakey wrote:thats his market value. 

Ent- would you rather have him even if he costs 30m or would you rather not have him.

That is really the only question you need to ask yourself.

Its a bizarre market value though Mysti, because he isn't worth that to an Italian side or a Spanish side, whereas as far as I can see players of other nationalities seem to have the same market value anywhere.
That said I agree with your statement, what's the money matter if you want him and can afford him.
I think the modern style of full back suits English players, high energy box to box.
Personally I think these attributes are less important in midfielders, I dont think box to box midfielders are particularly en vogue anymore, tend me either a DM or an attacking player.
Re Shaw though the only Saints fan I know how goes to watch them regularly and seems to know his stuff doesn't actually rate Shaw that highly (compared to other current players) and is ecstatic at the thought of 30 million for him.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:00 pm

mystiroakey wrote:yes locked in for years- but how many years is the point!

if uniteds game isnt back to the point of winning stuff at that point you wont be able to renew them and then you will fall foul of FFP. 

FFP isnt a one off thing- it is there to stay based on the previous 3 years every single year- and that amount allowed to be lost each 3 year period is also going down each year.

Its not so much about CL money it is very much about commercial deals that can only be made if you are a CL team
All the big deals are locked in for about 10 years, the thing people fail to grasp that unlike other teams we're run like a business so FFP will never be an issue, it's that simple we're too well run.

Chelsea and City should be kicked out of the champions league and receive huge points penalties every year in my opinion until they start to make an actual profit of their own backs rather than manipulated sponsorship deals.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:04 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:yes locked in for years- but how many years is the point!

if uniteds game isnt back to the point of winning stuff at that point you wont be able to renew them and then you will fall foul of FFP. 

FFP isnt a one off thing- it is there to stay based on the previous 3 years every single year- and that amount allowed to be lost each 3 year period is also going down each year.

Its not so much about CL money it is very much about commercial deals that can only be made if you are a CL team
All the big deals are locked in for about 10 years, the thing people fail to grasp that unlike other teams we're run like a business so FFP will never be an issue, it's that simple we're too well run.

Chelsea and City should be kicked out of the champions league and receive huge points penalties every year in my opinion until they start to make an actual profit of their own backs rather than manipulated sponsorship deals.

But as you should be able to see- chelsea are doing everything they can to resolve there situation. And if you do want to talk about the citehs of this world being booted out of europe- you have to also include barca, real and atletico.

Imagine the state of the Cl without those 4 clubs.!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:09 pm

Chelsea are doing there best to make it look like they are but they simply aren't, it's all just a manipulation of the system to scrape by.

It would be a far better competition if it contained teams that had got there of their own backs rather than bleeding their governments dry or being used as a kids play toy. I'd lose no sleep over seeing Barca or Real be kicked out, the former have really shown their true colours recently

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:13 pm

People do understand why Chelsea sold Mata dont they.

It was due to FFP.

they are seriously trying to sort this out. They would have probably been prime target to take shaw at about 20m and shaw as a boyhood fan and southern would have much rather played for chelsea.. Chelsea have know withdrawn because they cannot afford(within the constraints of ffp) to buy him.

The price for shaw to go to united is inflated due to the fact that citeh or chelsea would easily snap him up at 20m- but anything over that they just cant afford.

So If Man U want him they have to pay- and due to there revenues they can afford him.

Market values are different to different teams. We all know that. Man u although in a good place FFP  wise are going to have to pay a bit extra for the players as they are not in the CL next year- its t hat simple.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:16 pm

That's the art of manipulation, you do very little and people think you're trying to do more when you're not, selling without buying is trying to do something, selling and then buying is not.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:16 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Chelsea are doing there best to make it look like they are but they simply aren't, it's all just a manipulation of the system to scrape by.

It would be a far better competition if it contained teams that had got there of their own backs rather than bleeding their governments dry or being used as a kids play toy. I'd lose no sleep over seeing Barca or Real be kicked out, the former have really shown their true colours recently

Problem is UEFA would!!!

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:17 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That's the art of manipulation, you do very little and people think you're trying to do more when you're not, selling without buying is trying to do something, selling and then buying is not.

If they get there revenues sorted out they will be fine and they are doing that. yes you can manipulate accounts to a certain extent- but trust me chelsea are doing something which citeh, barca, real,PSG and athletico are not!

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:20 pm

It's taken them what 11 years to finally start doing very little, not really good enough is it.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:21 pm

Well the proof will come out soon i suppose.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:28 pm

No it won't, the bigs will get away with everything with their £350mil sponsorship deals that are just their owners shifting one from one company to another.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:30 pm

Not if UEFA have their way and fine them for deals like that.

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 18 Apr 2014, 7:32 pm

Uefa will investigate that. However even they can't impose sanctions on PL teams and then not deal with the Spanish teams as much as they may want to.

But what we may be able to see is what Chelsea net spend in the summer.

We know they need a striker. Costa is probally odds on as athletico are having go broker short term loans every month just to pay wages and he will be worth it..But if they spunk all here money on that PSG misfit. And spend big on others yet don't get rid at the same time the proof will be there.

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