Man Utd - The Gaalacticos thread

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Post by Ent on Tue 15 Apr 2014, 11:13 pm

First topic message reminder :

John wrote:Can see the same thing happening with Kroos, when Bayern stump up the wage & then the pressure will be on Moyes massively, after constantly telling everyone that he's been given the nod by these agents that these players wanted to come to United.

He shouldn't be saying things like that IMO. Just making things harder for himself.

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Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 8:43 am

Matas a passenger out wide
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Post by seanmichaels on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 8:51 am

Trebs wrote:I hope we go back to four at the back, we don't have much more time to persevere with this system with five.

De Gea
Valencia Smalling Jones Rojo
Fletcher Cleverley
Mata Rooney Di Maria
RVP

I know Mata is a little out of position on the right but this is the best line up.

Injuries and no more signings permitting -

De Gea
Jones Evans Rojo
Valencia Herrera Carrick Shaw
Di Maria or Di Maria Mata
Rooney RVP RVP / Rooney

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Post by Ent on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 9:06 am

mystiroakey wrote:Ent I didnt watch the game- but did zaha play last night?


Nope.

Januzaj, Wilson and pereira came on.

We ended up with 3 strikers and no discernible shape.

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 9:34 am

Shocked mate . really struggling to work out what is going with that lad. He destroys lesser teams.

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Post by Ent on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 9:42 am

Thats 2 managers now mysti. LVG gave several debuts last night rather than use a £15million wide man.

Some blame has to be laid at his door too.

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 11:05 am

I agree two managers have had issues. He needs to take some of the blame. I hope he gets sold though. A manager on his side that will give him the right motivation will help him. Sadly that may have to be Arry.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 11:26 am

Definitely the biggest loss for them other than Vidic will be Howard Webb. I honestly think some of those players hanging around at that club are uncoachable, or just can't be bothered.
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Post by Ent on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 12:15 pm

A lot of them can't be arsed;

from eurosport

An embarrassing number of people reacting to Manchester United’s defeat to MK Dons - i.e. more than one - have started running around as if they are acrobats, set on fire, required to do a set number of cartwheels in exchange for being doused in water.

There have been outrageous claims from people who should, in theory, know better. Newspapers have claimed that the defeat “heaped more misery on Louis van Gaal” and another broadsheet writer has claimed that the Dutchman cannot lose another game. There have been claims about a shock defeat to MK Dons, a bottom-feeding club that, by rights, shouldn’t exist anywhere near this high in the league after they destroyed Wimbledon, franchising an existence. It was no shock for anyone who had a passing interest in the biggest club in the country. The result was a surprise, yes - you expect the better players to beat the worse players most time, but we’ve all done enough laps of the pool to know it isn’t always the case, especially coming off the back of a poor start to the season. The result wasn’t a shock. A 3-0 defeat at home to York, with half of the side that would go on to win the Treble in 1999, that was a shock.

[VAN GAAL BLAMES 'ERRORS' AND 'LUCK']

Of the senior players, there was no reason to believe that any single one of them on the pitch might have been capable of leading by example. The only one of them who can be considered, without doubt, a United player of the future is David De Gea, and he was stationed in goal, and despite his excellence, he is hardly known for his Peter Schmeichel bawling-out qualities. Ahead of him, things were far worse.

In defence, the first culprit of incompetence was Jonny Evans, who has never proved that he can consistently be the senior member of a central defence. Last night was no exception, and to be generous, perhaps his mistake was as a result of his return to fitness. You would wonder why a lack of fitness would make it necessary to pass a ball five yards to an opponent, in the box, under no pressure, though.

In midfield, a trio of indiscipline was tasked with beating an organised and motivated MK Dons outfit looking to make a name for themselves. There was Nick Powell, once a fresh-faced and exciting replacement for Paul Scholes, with a wicked shot from distance, and now a player who was most recently on loan at Wigan Athletic, and banned for drink-driving. Ahead of him was Shinji Kagawa, a man who has signally failed to adapt to English football and playing in a slightly different position of the pitch than he was used in Germany for Dortmund. Kagawa, of course, is so committed to the cause that he was so late for United’s last greatest humiliation, a 2-0 defeat away to Olympiacos, “that he reportedly had to be fast-tracked through departures by United’s security staff and he did so with a fixed smile on his face hinting that he really did not care.”

But worst of all was Anderson. The man should be Manchester United’s senior midfielder for all Premier League and Champions League game, and yet he can no longer even take a corner. He can barely run. For the last five years of his career he has displayed absolutely no determination other than the determination to waste his career, talent, opportunity, and body mass index. And his reward has been a new contract.

Ahead of this defence was Danny Welbeck and Javier Hernandez. Danny Welbeck wants to leave. It would be a shame if he were to do so for United fans, as a local player, but at 23 he has regressed since his excellent 2011-12 season, and with the addition of Angel Di Maria there is no longer room for him in the squad. Hernandez had the look of someone who knew he was leaving the club and could not be bothered - unwilling to run, pass or shoot accurately - but he’s had that look for the last year.

In the past, when Manchester United were at their very best and confidence was high, United used players around the fringes of the first eleven, they would want to impress the manager, and the youth players would try to take their chance. These days, after the indulgence of mediocrity by Ferguson and the non-existent leadership of Moyes, it falls to Van Gaal to manage a rabble. By his reactions yesterday, not surprised by defeat and not especially bothered, he knew this was the case. The time to judge Manchester United was last season - no investment, no dominant manager, no competent executive, and a squad of players who didn’t care and couldn’t be made to. The time to judge Van Gaal is when he has his own team - don’t forget none of Marcos Rojo, Luke Shaw, Ander Herrera, Angel Di Maria (and Daley Blind and Arturo Vidal) - featured last night. It’s been said again and again that United’s problem is the absence of better players, but that is being fixed. But that’s only half the problem, the biggest task of the transfer window is to get rid of the players who will only drag everyone else around them.

MK Dons was not a shock - it was almost an inevitability. But let’s calm down. It’s been in the post ever since the Glazers took over, not since Van Gaal did. If you didn’t realise that already, then you’ve just not been paying attention.

Agree with a lot said in that blog.

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 12:18 pm

Lvg blames luck. Omg I didn't expect him to go the Moyes route.

You lose 4-0 and he blames it on luck ..  Rolling Eyes


I

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Post by Ent on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 1:15 pm

Sounds bad and whilst I don't think it was the best interview and didn't entirely agree with him it isn't as bad as the headlines make out.


“It’s a matter of making errors at the wrong moment," he said. "When you see the goals against us I believe they were big errors in the build-ups.

“Once it was 0-2 it is very difficult to come back in the game. In the second half we created a lot of chances but we didn’t have the luck to score. But at least we created a lot of chances.

“We took a lot of risks to change the system in one-on-ones; the spaces were big and the (MK Dons) manager anticipated this very well by bringing on a forward.

“You have to analyse the problem and take your measures. It’s risky to change (the team).

“You mustn’t forget we had nine injuries and a very young team. You cannot expect more of players. We were also unlucky because they scored from our errors, quickly.”

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Post by socal1976 on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:11 pm

Fergie is looking better and better with the passage of time. I still think LVG will be able to do what Moyes wasn't able to do and rally the team around him and his system. Plus having a player like Di Maria coming in can't hurt. Still losing to MK Dons 4-0 for even United's reserve squad is embarassing. If Di Maria and LVG can't turn it around and get United to the top 4 they are in big trouble. Two years of no CL football with and expenditure of about a 120 million pounds on three players. Still it is very early in the season, I think they will get into the top 4 as I can see LFC falling out and United getting back into it. Still this really is embarassing.

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Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:14 pm

Fergie got out just in time.

Jose coming back to Chelsea, City dumping Mancini, both well set to return to form after seasons hit by controversies. United won an awful PL side with a squad that was not up to typical United standards, so Fergie went out on top rather than suffer the impending drop.
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Post by Lowlandbrit on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:15 pm

It might have been a C-team, but United sent out the reserve team in the early stages of the league cup for years without results like that. Although those teams had players like Rossi and Pogba in them.

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Post by Ent on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:23 pm

GSC wrote:Fergie got out just in time.

Jose coming back to Chelsea, City dumping Mancini, both well set to return to form after seasons hit by controversies. United won an awful PL side with a squad that was not up to typical United standards, so Fergie went out on top rather than suffer the impending drop.

I think the squad looks worse without Fergie.

You can just look through the numbers and see the likes of Hernandez, Kagawa, Giggs etc making far more of a contribution under him compared to Moyes - who only really got anything decent out of Rooney and that was it.

Still very early for LVG, but it is clear he wants his own team and won't be tolerating the lesser able/less committed players.

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Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:27 pm

There was always going to be a dropoff from Fergie to Moyes (why did you include Giggs though), Ferguson definitely got out while the going was good though.
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Post by Ent on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:33 pm

Giggs 12/13

18 starts 6 goals 6 assists
22 pl appearances

Giggs 13/14

15 starts 0 goals 1 assist
12 PL appearances.

Lots of other players used badly and making poor contributions under moyes

Kagawa (who I don't even really like)

6 goals 5 assists then 0 goals 3 assists.

No doubt the squad wasn't vintage but it was good enough, better than what has been offered up since.

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Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:35 pm

He was 39 and took up a coaching role Ent.

God forbid Moyes start phasing out a 39 year old who hasn't been particularly good in years
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Post by Sam on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:47 pm

Anyone else think United have targeted the wrong players this window? Granted Di Maria is a really good player, but United need reinforcements at the back - A CB or two, a RB perhaps and a DM.

Granted they have been linked with many and haven't got them, but surely they have other targets?

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:07 pm

It wasn't all doom and gloom Man U fans.

My mate's friend who he works with decided to put her £2.50 free bet on Man U 4-0, only to realise today that she had mistakely put it on MK Dons to win 4-0 @ 500/1.

Every cloud........

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:16 pm

I did that once.. Hit it as well but it was only 1-0 at 10/1..

What a result for your mate.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:25 pm

mystiroakey wrote:I did that once.. Hit it as well but it was only  1-0 at 10/1..

What a result for your mate.

I dont know her. Me mate this sent me a Whatapp message this morning from her saying 'OMG I DONT F**KIN BELIEVE IT' with a screen shot of the settled £1250 bet.

Can remember me mate's Cahill first goal bet came in when Everton where playing either Bolton/Chelsea and Gary Cahill scored first, he obviously meant Tim but the bookies still paid out thumbsup

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Post by mystiroakey on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:28 pm

Nice Very Happy


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Post by MIG on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 6:35 am

This story is now on the BBC gossip column!

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Post by Hero on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 12:44 pm

---------------De Gea-------------
Smalling----Jones----Evans----Evra
Nani---Cleverley---Anderson---Young
--------Rooney---Welbeck---------

The Utd team above looks pretty dire doesn't it, yes Evra's now moved on and Nani is on loan but it's not far removed from most players you'd want rid from OT barring Rooney and De Gea?

That's the side that beat Arsenal 8-2 only three years ago.
WTF happened?

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Post by GSC on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 12:45 pm

Arsenal were properly useless that day.
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Post by The Special Juan on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 12:47 pm

Arsenal had their B team out that day aside from RVP and Walnut. It was funny at the time (sorry nando) but wasn't really a fair match.

It seems a lot of players in that Utd team have regressed or never kicked on. De Gea's probably the only one that's gotten better.
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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:04 pm

I said it at this point last season. the difference is fergie.

During his last season man u where behind first half in what seemed like 75% of there games. They kept coming back and smashing teams second half after Fergie sussed out the opposition and adapted the team enough for them to win.

The best managers are worth 3 WC players. look at palace under TP... just watch us this season......

LVG looks to be coming for his retirement fund...





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Post by The Special Juan on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:18 pm

It's funny, with no Fergie about Mourinho's now the best manager about. Could he do something with this team? Probably not.
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Post by GSC on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:22 pm

Nah, give me Carlo over Jose.

Finished the job Jose couldn't in Madrid, league titles in Italy and England, CL with 2 teams and proved he could do a long stint at Milan.
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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:34 pm

Ferguson and his scouts are the problem. Lost touch with the game moving forward. Bought too many average English players.

Look at the backbone of the 2012-2013 title winning side and look at when they were signed:

Giggs (Youth)
Scholes (Youth)
Ferdinand (2002)
Rooney (2004)
Vidic (2006)
Evra (2006)
Carrick (2006)
Rafael (2008)
Valencia (2009)
De Gea (2011)
RVP (2012)

Apart from RVP/De Gea his signings since 2006 were average to dreadful at best. He is responsible for the inbalance in the squad.



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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:44 pm

Didnt matter - he could manage the players he had. He made them play well and he made them work there socks of.. He held such respect..They also listened to him and followed instruction when they were told to. If he had brought in big ego signings it may not have worked. Fergie always utilisie his full squad- you calling on key players misses the point of fergie. He squad rotated all the time. Players like fletcher, anderson, henandez, park, welbeck , nani, etc with all so intergral to his seasons, and during his last season cleverly, jones and smalling looked very good prospects.. Now watch them!





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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:49 pm

Balderdash. He was a dinosaur towards the end. Found out tactically in big games and his best players were coming to an end.

He made 1 world class signing in his last 6 years in the job. Criminal.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:51 pm

He won his last season..

and in the most amazing tactical fashion. Possibly the best season tactically i can ever think of. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

As i said almost every game the team was getting battered first half - yet game on game they would win due to a change up in the second half.

You couldn't be further from the truth.

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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:54 pm

mystiroakey wrote:He won his last season..

and in the most amazing tactical fashion. Possibly the best season tactically i can ever think of. So I have no idea what you are talking about.

As i said almost every game the team was getting battered first half - yet  game on game they would win due to a change up in the second half.

You couldn't be further from the truth.

With a side made up mostly of players bought prior to 2006.

Name me his good signings since 2006?

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 1:57 pm

I haven't been discussing his signings. I have been discussing his managerial ability (tactically and man management wise).

Yes it was allways going to be impossible for Moyes. Moyes wasn't up to the job. I stated that very early on in the season..Yes he didn't have young marque players in the spine that could aid him..A good manager would have come in. Sussed that out and bought them in when there were champions. Man U coc ked it up once fergie left. and Moyes couldn't get the extra out of up and coming players.

Yes we can blame fergie(and the sporting director) for leaving the shelves a bit bare- but it still doesn't change the fact that his managerial skills was what won them the season in 2012 2013

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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 2:04 pm

What? Ability to identify talent is not the most crucial aspect of management. You're having a laugh.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 2:09 pm

The most crucial aspect of football management is man management first and tactics second.

In US sports and many European football leagues they work with sporting directors that deal in signings completely and pay huge money for top scouts.The managers only manage the team and have barely any input in signings. We are also slowly following that path..

Ferguson was the boss ..unbelievable manager..

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 2:23 pm

Are you a big football manager player sea?

Scouting players is the best part of the game.. In reality they haven't got time .

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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 2:26 pm

Ferguson let others sign players for him? Laugh

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 2:28 pm

You arnt grasping the point are you?

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Post by seanmichaels on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 2:28 pm

Used to be back in 2001. Left Uni and never had the time since.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Ferguson.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 2:33 pm

The pressure these days is just to much. They are working so hard to get results. There are only a few teams in the pl with full on sporting directors . totenham , city and maybe now west ham. (My team palace seems to also do it of record , parish does it!!)

Yes fergie picked his players as most pl managers do. But soon it will be very rare.. The thing is PL mangers want to pick there own players , but it seems to actually work better when there job is to manage what they are given only, well in other sports and leagues anyway. We will see how it turns out.

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Post by Trebs on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 4:53 pm

Looks like Tom Cleverley is joining Aston Villa for £8m. Gutted, he's got a bright future.

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Post by Guest on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 4:56 pm

wonky spine is awful. He can take his blind passes & shocking play to Villa Park. Bright future, wtf?

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 5:03 pm

at least he will play. Thats the important thing- at the end of the day these ok players are all under performing since fergie left. He is just one of 20!!

We will see what these players are really like when they move on.


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Post by freemo on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 5:15 pm

Cleverly is awful! Can't believe someone said he has a bright future..

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 7:02 pm

MIG wrote:This story is now on the BBC gossip column!

Laugh at least people know it weren't bull thumbsup

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Post by Guest on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 7:46 pm

John wrote:wonky spine is awful. He can take his blind passes & shocking play to Villa Park

Laugh I know what you mean, he's like he's got spinal muscular atrophy when he attempt to pass the ball. Average player, massively out of depth at United, might find his level at Villa but I think he'll just get outshone by Delph.

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 28 Aug 2014, 7:48 pm

As bad as hunchback young?

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Post by Ent on Fri 29 Aug 2014, 10:26 am

United to make more signings

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-van-gaal-confident-signings-070417312--sow.html

Villa have bid and Valencia enquired about Cleverly.

Kagawa back to Dortmund seems imminent.

Hernandez and Welbeck rumours refusing to go away.

Squad could look very different come Monday.

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