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Barclays Premier League 13/14 Thread Part 'x'

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Post by Duty281 Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:13 am

Superb by Mourinho. When are Liverpool at their most dangerous? The first thirty minutes of games; that is, generally, when they tear teams apart.

Not allowed to do that today, though, even against a very weakened Chelsea side. Liverpool didn't get a clear chance all game, and one costly, costly error gave Chelsea what they needed.

That and frustration, as Liverpool rapidly ran out of ideas and invention.

Back in City's hands now - another title won on goal difference?

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Post by CFCNick Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:14 am

Same again wednesday lads  Very Happy Yahoo thumbsup 

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Post by Crimey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:14 am

It doesn't help that Mourinho doesn't have an iota of class in his entire person. He looks a dirty old man who hangs around schools.

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Post by Hulking_up Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:14 am

Crimey wrote:
Olly wrote:How can you not call that good tactics???!

He's just stopped the most free scoring team in the league scoring with a defence of a 41 year old keeper and Kalas.

Mugged off

With the addition of Cole, Ivanovic, Azpilicueta Matic, Mikel, Lampard, Salah and Schurrle....
Ignore him. This idiot will be rotting in the championship thread next season.

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Post by kingraf Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:14 am

I don't know how negatively you can view a manager with nearly 10 league titles spread across four leagues, two Champions Leagues (neither of which the bookies favourite), a Uefa cup, and a few local cups in fifteen years.
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Post by AberdeenSteve Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:15 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
AberdeenSteve wrote:Oh, and another performance which proves Suarez is not as good as possible bang on about. I don't think he had a good touch all day, and once again bottles it against a top side.

Huge test for him next season when back in the Champions League.
Over exaggerating much?

No, the stats tell the whole story. His goals have all come against the lower teams.

His stats for goals against the bigger teams whilst at Liverpool as follows:

Tottenham - 4
Arsenal - 2
Manchester United - 2
Chelsea - 2
Manchester City - 1

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Post by J.Benson II Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:15 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Benson, to everyone on the continent there is a huge gulf in class between Scholes and the other two, it's only the english fans who favour the blood and guts technically inferior approach that think otherwise.

As for England, our best performances came with Scholes in the middle, the 5-0 in Munich, the 1-0 against Argentina, the 3-0 against Denmark, we started to go downhill once he was shifted wide.

Scholes is one of my favourite players mate and I think he's clearly technically superior to the other two but in terms of overall effectiveness, there isn't a massive difference. Gerrard single handily got Liverpool through plenty of tough moments.
A lot of the foreign players who heaped praise on Scholes also did the same for Gerrard and Frank.
As for international football, England have generally disappointed regardless of who played in central positions barring the odd big result.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:15 am

Mourinho mugged them. I can imagine hes so easy to love when he manages your team. The passion especially must resonate.

Well done the young lad Kalas. Thought he was brilliant.

I think Chelsea were a bit pathetic midweek, but today they came to play a game and counter, pick the scraps etc. Played on the nerves of the fans.

Schurrle was brilliant, Matic looks a superb signing, Azpilicueta the best full back in the league at the moment.

Liverpool had moments but found a resolute defence in front of them. It happens. Deal with it.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:16 am

Crimey wrote:It doesn't help that Mourinho doesn't have an iota of class in his entire person. He looks a dirty old man who hangs around schools.

Because that's a real classy comment...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:16 am

Oh the bitterness
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Post by Duty281 Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:17 am

CFCNick wrote:Same again wednesday lads  Very Happy Yahoo thumbsup 

Hope so!  thumbsup 

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Post by skyeman Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:17 am

Crimey wrote:It doesn't help that Mourinho doesn't have an iota of class in his entire person. He looks a dirty old man who hangs around schools.


 Laugh Laugh 

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:18 am

On the subject of class...good job giving the ball back from that throw Whistle . Habit of that.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:18 am

Today has highlighted how poor the league has been this year though, you have the ultra defensive and boring Chelsea (sorry Nick but football is about enjoyment not glory seeking), the defensively atrocious Liverpool and the enigma that is the inconsistent Man City.

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Post by GSC Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:18 am

Hulking_up wrote:
GSC wrote:Liverpool were appalling defensively.
Don't think we were that bad. Ba was shocking though.

Skrtel got so lucky repeatedly. With better judgement Chelsea couldve had 2 or 3
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Post by J.Benson II Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:20 am

AberdeenSteve wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
AberdeenSteve wrote:Oh, and another performance which proves Suarez is not as good as possible bang on about. I don't think he had a good touch all day, and once again bottles it against a top side.

Huge test for him next season when back in the Champions League.
Over exaggerating much?

No, the stats tell the whole story. His goals have all come against the lower teams.

His stats for goals against the bigger teams whilst at Liverpool as follows:

Tottenham - 4
Arsenal - 2
Manchester United - 2
Chelsea - 2
Manchester City - 1

More chances get created against the smaller teams than against the better ones. All PL forwards play against the same teams, yet Suarez is above them all.
He deserves his hype.

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Post by J.Benson II Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:21 am

Dzeko.

1-0 City. They will feel confident now.

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Post by AberdeenSteve Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:21 am

Wow Crimey, bitter much? You were outplayed today. Chelsea defended and took the chances they were given. Gerrard fell, and Liverpool's title chances have taken a fall too. How ironic?

Not like you finished 7th last season..  Rolling Eyes 

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Post by Crimey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:22 am

I liked Mourinho for his entire original run in England, his time in Italy and most of his time in Spain, but since the end of his time in Madrid and his return to England he's become very bitter, incredibly rude and I think he's actually regressed as a manager, resorting to retreating defensively a lot more often than he has done in the past. While his record of success speaks for itself, I do think when he does retire, it will tarnish his legacy to a certain extent that despite working with some of the best and most exciting attacking players in the world he failed to ever really deliver exciting football barring, arguably, his first two years at Chelsea.

I think it's a shame that somebody so obviously intelligent does have to resort to childish actions, hypocritical statements, bitter claims and football beyond just being defensive. I felt he hasn't developed as a manager, and I think it has actually harmed his rate of success, he had a lot more success in his earlier years than he has in his later years. The last truly fantastic season he had was four years ago, he's won two trophies I believe since then.

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Post by skyeman Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:22 am

Well the Pool, now praying for a London team to do well. Love it.

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Post by Guest Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:22 am

Duty281 wrote:
CFCNick wrote:Same again wednesday lads  Very Happy Yahoo thumbsup 

Hope so!  thumbsup 

I don't. I know there are neutrals that will support Chelsea simply because they are from these shores but not me.

I was just born here. Plus I like watching football.

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Post by Hulking_up Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:23 am

skyeman wrote:Well the Pool, now praying for a London team to do well. Love it.
Nah, I'm hoping Everton do 'em.

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Post by Crimey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:24 am

AberdeenSteve wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
AberdeenSteve wrote:Oh, and another performance which proves Suarez is not as good as possible bang on about. I don't think he had a good touch all day, and once again bottles it against a top side.

Huge test for him next season when back in the Champions League.
Over exaggerating much?

No, the stats tell the whole story. His goals have all come against the lower teams.

His stats for goals against the bigger teams whilst at Liverpool as follows:

Tottenham - 4
Arsenal - 2
Manchester United - 2
Chelsea - 2
Manchester City - 1

You look at any top striker, surprisingly enough against the bigger teams, their goal scoring rate tends to be lower. That is just common sense. All strikers get to play against the same teams, Suarez has scored more. Simple as.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:24 am

J.Benson II wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Benson, to everyone on the continent there is a huge gulf in class between Scholes and the other two, it's only the english fans who favour the blood and guts technically inferior approach that think otherwise.

As for England, our best performances came with Scholes in the middle, the 5-0 in Munich, the 1-0 against Argentina, the 3-0 against Denmark, we started to go downhill once he was shifted wide.

Scholes is one of my favourite players mate and I think he's clearly technically superior to the other two but in terms of overall effectiveness, there isn't a massive difference. Gerrard single handily got Liverpool through plenty of tough moments.
A lot of the foreign players who heaped praise on Scholes also did the same for Gerrard and Frank.
As for international football, England have generally disappointed regardless of who played in central positions barring the odd big result.
No but they didn't Benson, Scholes is viewed on the continent most notably in Spain far differently to the other two, you don't much higher praise than Xavi and Iniesta admitting they based their game upon him. Nobody says things like that about Gerrard and Lampard because with the greatest respect they are your standard english midfielder lacking in technical ability.

As for overall effectiveness, that can be judged quite simply on being a key player in winning 11 league titles, 2 champions leagues and 3 fa cups, that is how good he was, we wouldn't have that much with the other two instead of him.

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Post by CFCNick Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:24 am

The simple matter of fact is we've been here before. Liverpool haven't.

This season against the top 8. 6 points off Liverpool, 6 off City, 4 off Arsenal, 3 off Everton, 4 off Spurs, 4 off United, 6 off Southampton.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:25 am

FreekShow wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CFCNick wrote:Same again wednesday lads  Very Happy Yahoo thumbsup 

Hope so!  thumbsup 

I don't. I know there are neutrals that will support Chelsea simply because they are from these shores but not me.

I was just born here. Plus I like watching football.

I'm not hoping Chelsea win for that reason, Freek. There will only be about 1-3 English players in the side, anyway.

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Post by Gregers Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:25 am

Crimey, I'm sorry but your comments on mourinho are a joke. I've never seen such a sore loser as you are being at the moment (which as I know you quite well is very unlike you)

Tactical masterclass from mourinho today, reckon citeh will win the league but this will be the moment Liverpool lost it to them

Looking forward to the pro-pool media talking about this tomorrow...

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:26 am

Crimey wrote:I liked Mourinho for his entire original run in England, his time in Italy and most of his time in Spain, but since the end of his time in Madrid and his return to England he's become very bitter, incredibly rude and I think he's actually regressed as a manager, resorting to retreating defensively a lot more often than he has done in the past. While his record of success speaks for itself, I do think when he does retire, it will tarnish his legacy to a certain extent that despite working with some of the best and most exciting attacking players in the world he failed to ever really deliver exciting football barring, arguably, his first two years at Chelsea.

I think it's a shame that somebody so obviously intelligent does have to resort to childish actions, hypocritical statements, bitter claims and football beyond just being defensive. I felt he hasn't developed as a manager, and I think it has actually harmed his rate of success, he had a lot more success in his earlier years than he has in his later years. The last truly fantastic season he had was four years ago, he's won two trophies I believe since then.
Having Moyes chosen ahead of you will have an effect on a manager like Mourinho, don't think he'll recover from that snub for a while yet.

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Post by kingraf Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:26 am

It's common sense that a players stats diminish facing better opposition... that's why they're called better opposition.
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Post by Crimey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:26 am

AberdeenSteve wrote:Wow Crimey, bitter much? You were outplayed today. Chelsea defended and took the chances they were given. Gerrard fell, and Liverpool's title chances have taken a fall too. How ironic?

Not like you finished 7th last season..  Rolling Eyes 

I have explained that it is not defensive football that is the problem, but what Mourinho did wasn't a "tactical master-class" or "genius" it was stick ten players behind the ball and hope for the best. With the level of player he has on the books, that is shocking. I have defended Stoke several times on this forum and other sides by saying that there are many ways to play a football match and I stick by that. I don't have a problem with Mourinho setting his teams up like that, it can and has worked, I am just asserting that to do so isn't the same as when a manager, as Mourinho has done, sets his team up defensively and organised really well. 

I'm not sure that is ironic...

I don't why that is relevant.

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Post by Duty281 Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:27 am

J.Benson II wrote:Dzeko.

1-0 City. They will feel confident now.

Everton can still do their neighbours a massive favour next week.

What a race for the title.

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Post by skyeman Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:28 am

FreekShow wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
CFCNick wrote:Same again wednesday lads  Very Happy Yahoo thumbsup 

Hope so!  thumbsup 

I don't. I know there are neutrals that will support Chelsea simply because they are from these shores but not me.

I was just born here. Plus I like watching football.


As i have said before, i want all British clubs to win in Europe, but not one with JM in charge. Don't like his class.


But just and only just, i still hope Chelsea win the CL.

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Post by kingraf Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:29 am

Mourinho also skimps on good wine.
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Post by Crimey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:31 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
J.Benson II wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Benson, to everyone on the continent there is a huge gulf in class between Scholes and the other two, it's only the english fans who favour the blood and guts technically inferior approach that think otherwise.

As for England, our best performances came with Scholes in the middle, the 5-0 in Munich, the 1-0 against Argentina, the 3-0 against Denmark, we started to go downhill once he was shifted wide.

Scholes is one of my favourite players mate and I think he's clearly technically superior to the other two but in terms of overall effectiveness, there isn't a massive difference. Gerrard single handily got Liverpool through plenty of tough moments.
A lot of the foreign players who heaped praise on Scholes also did the same for Gerrard and Frank.
As for international football, England have generally disappointed regardless of who played in central positions barring the odd big result.
No but they didn't Benson, Scholes is viewed on the continent most notably in Spain far differently to the other two, you don't much higher praise than Xavi and Iniesta admitting they based their game upon him. Nobody says things like that about Gerrard and Lampard because with the greatest respect they are your standard english midfielder lacking in technical ability.

As for overall effectiveness, that can be judged quite simply on being a key player in winning 11 league titles, 2 champions leagues and 3 fa cups, that is how good he was, we wouldn't have that much with the other two instead of him.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/mar/13/zinedine-zidane-steven-gerrard-liverpool
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1974041-andrea-pirlos-praise-of-steven-gerrard-shows-liverpools-changed-transfer-needs
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/nov/13/ibrahimovic-steven-gerrard-england-sweden

"To me he is one of the Super best midfielders in the world, He is excellent player" Pele
"He is undoubtedly one of the best midfield players in the world" Carlo Ancelotti
Gerrard has been my idol for 10 years and is one of the best players in the world. He is the example of what all midfield players aspire to. He is always there in the heat of the battle, leading by example. He is everywhere you look – in defence, in the middle of the pitch and in attack. I would love to be close to that level" Daniele De Rossi

In short - Absolute nonsense.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:31 am

Crimey wrote:
I have explained that it is not defensive football that is the problem, but what Mourinho did wasn't a "tactical master-class" or "genius" it was stick ten players behind the ball and hope for the best.

Except it wasn't that.

He clearly set up with a narrow defence, not allowing Liverpool to go through them forcing them into crossing the ball which Chelsea could defend, or to try and go down the side of them which Liverpool don't do.

He setup with wingers with pace to counter off a big target man who would try and get them up the pitch.

He's just done Rodgers and Liverpool a kipper.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:34 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1355726/Xavi-interview-Paul-Scholes-best-midfielder-20-years.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7408010.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1392858/Paul-Scholes-rated-greats.html


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Post by Marky Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:34 am

Crimey, does this website have a "toys thrown out of the pram" emoticon?

Just wondering.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:34 am

feick

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Post by compelling and rich Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:34 am

scholes 11 league titles gerrard 0  raspberry raspberry 

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Post by Crimey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:35 am

Olly wrote:
Crimey wrote:
I have explained that it is not defensive football that is the problem, but what Mourinho did wasn't a "tactical master-class" or "genius" it was stick ten players behind the ball and hope for the best.

Except it wasn't that.

He clearly set up with a narrow defence, not allowing Liverpool to go through them forcing them into crossing the ball which Chelsea could defend, or to try and go down the side of them which Liverpool don't do.

He setup with wingers with pace to counter off a big target man who would try and get them up the pitch.

He's just done Rodgers and Liverpool a kipper.


He based his team selection off of what he was going to play in the Champions League. 
It wouldn't have mattered what players he played, he set his team up to put everybody behind the ball and then booted it up to Demba Ba.
I can't stand the hypocritical praise and criticism on here.

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Post by Crimey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:36 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1355726/Xavi-interview-Paul-Scholes-best-midfielder-20-years.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/7408010.stm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1392858/Paul-Scholes-rated-greats.html

I wasn't disputing that people have also praised Paul Scholes, I was disputing the fact that you said nobody outside of England praised Gerrard in the same way, which I showed you just a snippet of the people that have.

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Post by AberdeenSteve Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:37 am

It isn't just the goals, it is his overall performances.

Sturridge on the other hand has had great games against the top teams, but Suarez? None-existant.

A team that puts 10 men behind the ball don't score. Chelsea beat you 2-0 today. And to think that Hazard, Oscar, Cahill, Cech, & Terry didn't start today.

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Post by Gregers Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:38 am

Marky wrote:Crimey, does this website have a "toys thrown out of the pram" emoticon?

Just wondering.
 

If not then we need one

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Post by mystiroakey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:39 am

It's like men v boys.

Shame. If we let 1 in early it's basically game over.

If we frustrate we can then hit them on the break. This team is too good

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Post by DP Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:39 am

I love football.

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Post by mystiroakey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:40 am

That's good Dp.

But how much?

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Post by kingraf Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:41 am

Too much is made of a Players total league titles, when comparing players. It admittedly shows staying power, and an extended period as a Class player, but its not like comparing majors or or grand slams, which a player wins all on his lonesome.
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Post by Marky Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:41 am

DP wrote:I love football.

I love the fact it was Gerrard who made the mistake.

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Post by Crimey Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:41 am

Gregers wrote:
Marky wrote:Crimey, does this website have a "toys thrown out of the pram" emoticon?

Just wondering.
 

If not then we need one

And the award for most unnecessary comment goes to....

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Post by J.Benson II Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:41 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
J.Benson II wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Benson, to everyone on the continent there is a huge gulf in class between Scholes and the other two, it's only the english fans who favour the blood and guts technically inferior approach that think otherwise.

As for England, our best performances came with Scholes in the middle, the 5-0 in Munich, the 1-0 against Argentina, the 3-0 against Denmark, we started to go downhill once he was shifted wide.

Scholes is one of my favourite players mate and I think he's clearly technically superior to the other two but in terms of overall effectiveness, there isn't a massive difference. Gerrard single handily got Liverpool through plenty of tough moments.
A lot of the foreign players who heaped praise on Scholes also did the same for Gerrard and Frank.
As for international football, England have generally disappointed regardless of who played in central positions barring the odd big result.
No but they didn't Benson, Scholes is viewed on the continent most notably in Spain far differently to the other two, you don't much higher praise than Xavi and Iniesta admitting they based their game upon him. Nobody says things like that about Gerrard and Lampard because with the greatest respect they are your standard english midfielder lacking in technical ability.

As for overall effectiveness, that can be judged quite simply on being a key player in winning 11 league titles, 2 champions leagues and 3 fa cups, that is how good he was, we wouldn't have that much with the other two instead of him.

The likes of Ancelotti, Zidane and Kaka among others have all lavished huge praise of Gerrard for instance. De Rossi said that Gerrard is what all midfielders should aspire to be like.
Using trophies won to argue one player is better than the other is irrelevant since Scholes played in far better squads and with a better manager than Gerrard did.

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