England Limited Overs Squad to play Sri Lanka

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Post by msp83 on Tue 13 May 2014, 3:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

The T-20I squad as well as the squad for the first 3 ODIs announced.
Twenty20 squad Eoin Morgan (capt), Moeen Ali, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Jos Buttler, Michael Carberry, Harry Gurney, Alex Hales, Chris Jordan, Joe Root, James Tredwell, Chris Woakes.
ODI squad (first three matches) Alastair Cook (capt), James Anderson, Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Ravi Bopara, Tim Bresnan, Jos Buttler, Michael Carberry, Harry Gurney, Chris Jordan, Eoin Morgan, Joe Root, James Tredwell, Chris Woakes.

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Post by Nachos Jones on Tue 03 Jun 2014, 9:23 pm

Voice of the Beehive wrote:

Having said the batsman was to blame, since both were warned, I still think they should put the warning back in the laws and make it a more formal one where the umpire stresses to the batsman that he will be given out if the bowler removes the bails in future when he's out of his ground. Ideally the warning should be given in such a way that the crowd are aware too, perhaps by a signal to the square leg umpire as they do when formally warning a bowler. I think that would make sure everyone was aware that the batsman has been warned and perhaps ease the level of controversy although it's never going to feel a particularly sporting mode of dismissal.


That could be the best post I have read on here in a long time clap

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 03 Jun 2014, 9:32 pm

Anyways on the actual match

Cook's made a man sausage up with the overs here unless my maths is wrong Jordan will only be able to bowl 9 of his allocated 10 meaning Root/Bopara need to bowl one more as Anderson/Gurney only have three left between them
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 03 Jun 2014, 10:07 pm

Gotta admit I'm really beginning to take a dislike to Cook as captain, I'm far far from impressed with him.

Players giving it all this yap to Matthews should hush up, cos they did nothing wrong by the laws of the game or the spirit of cricket. Heck Root not walking was a bigger infringement of the spirit of cricket.

Poor performance all round barring Tredwell. We've got reevaluate how we start our ODI innings, too often we start off slow and the openers end up getting out without getting a big score leaving the lower order to try and get us a respectable total.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 03 Jun 2014, 10:29 pm

"It was completely within the rules, we warned him twice in this game and the last game" - Mathews puts the debate to bed there
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Post by JDizzle on Tue 03 Jun 2014, 10:35 pm

I thought you weren't allowed to do it once you were in your delivery stride? I assume I'm wrong as International umpires gave him out! Have no sympathy with him once he'd been warned though, just stay in your crease.

Yeah, some serious issues need to be raised before the Indian ODIs. Cook is the major one for me, and the make up of the attack when Broad and Stokes are back. Morgan has a decent record this past 12 months (Ave 35 @ 90 odd, I think) so he is no issue. I actually quite like Ballance at three. He is a powerful hitter and yes, he does bat as a finisher for Yorks but he can't bat lower than 4 (Morgan, Buttler, Bopara is a good 5-6-7) for England so I have no qualms with continuing the experiment at 3. Hales needs to play though.

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Post by NickisBHAFC on Tue 03 Jun 2014, 10:37 pm

Yeah Tredwell far from impresses me as our ODI spinner. But worryingly there is no other real options out there, spin wise.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 6:50 am

Mahela Jayawardene pointed out that when the Ravi Bopara Jos Buttler partnership was going on the other day, they ran like hell and collected a big number of 2s. In many of those occasions they took an early start letting them convert singles into 2s. That is unfair on the bowler and the fielding side.
Alastair Cook was saying that the Sri Lankans crossed a line. Cook is really losing it. Perhaps Kevin Pietersen has something to do with it, hey, Alastair?

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 6:52 am

Must say I found it quite ironic and hypocritical that of all the people, it was Mahela Jayawardene who came out to defend his side. The point he made was very much worth it, but his past actions does not make him the right person to take the high moral ground. But its good to see that Mahela has learned.......

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Post by shivfan on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 7:53 am

The laws of cricket are clear...the non-striker should stay in his crease.

I don't know why we are expected to treat non-strikers any different from batsmen facing the strike. Too many non-strikers try to sneak a run in LO cricket. If more bowlers did what Senanayake did, then non-strikers would stop trying to cheat....
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Post by shivfan on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 7:56 am

djlovesyou wrote:Well yeah, Jos Buttler was out. Particularly as the Sri Lankans had already warned the player that they don't have any issues with playing the game without a hint of sportsmanship.

He knew the level that the Sri Lankan bowler was prepared to sink to to get the key wicket, but still he persisted in coming out of the crease.
That's the kind of xenophobic reaction I expect from posters like you....
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Post by PaulHv2 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 8:48 am

I remember trying this about two seasons ago, I was told by the umpire that because my back foot had landed I was effectively in my delivery stride and was unable to turn and run the non striker out, I asked a few umpires around the league and they all said it was correct.

Silly if you've been warned, and not all that different from when Sidebottom wiped out one of the Kiwi batsmen a few years ago, they ran him out and didn't call him back. Collingwood was the captain at the time I believe.
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Post by shivfan on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 8:58 am

The MCC rules are different from the ICC rules...the ICC rules were changed to make it easier for bowlers to run out non-strikers trying to steal a run:

'Remember that time when Kevin Pietersen danced down the pitch to Shane Warne and was stumped, and the umpire asked Ricky Ponting to withdraw the appeal? Of course you don't, because it didn't happen, and the very idea of it happening is absurd. Why, then, do umpires continue to pressure fielding captains to reconsider appeals for the so-called Mankad dismissal, the act of a bowler running out a non-striker who is backing up? How are the situations any different, really? In both cases the batsman is attempting to gain advantage, in one by reaching the pitch of the ball and negating spin, in the other by reducing the distance he must cover to complete a run. A wicketkeeper who stumps a batsman is lauded for his sharp work, yet an eagle-eyed bowler who mankads is usually condemned as unsporting. In 2011, the ICC made it easier for bowlers to effect such a dismissal. Previously the bowler had to take the bails off before entering his delivery stride. This is still the case under the MCC's Laws of Cricket, but the ICC adapted its playing conditions to allow the act "before releasing the ball and provided he has not completed his usual delivery swing". It was a clear and deliberate move to keep batsmen accountable.'

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/604156.html
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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 9:41 am

Olly wrote:"It was completely within the rules, we warned him twice in this game and the last game" - Mathews puts the debate to bed there

Couldn't agree more. Not only was it completely within the laws, it was also within the spirit of the game. Had there been no warning, that's a different matter. But two? I would say the Sri Lankans showed good sportsmanship there.

Cook's complaints just look petulant. He lost the game and is now whining about it. I wonder if it has more to do with Cook feeling pressure over not just his captaincy, but also his position in the team?

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 10:15 am

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
Olly wrote:"It was completely within the rules, we warned him twice in this game and the last game" - Mathews puts the debate to bed there

Couldn't agree more. Not only was it completely within the laws, it was also within the spirit of the game. Had there been no warning, that's a different matter. But two? I would say the Sri Lankans showed good sportsmanship there.

Cook's complaints just look petulant. He lost the game and is now whining about it.            I wonder if it has more to do with Cook feeling pressure over not just his captaincy, but also his position in the team?

For me, Cook is appearing increasing petulant and dislikeable.

I also thought Nick Knight gave him a very easy ride on SKY over Buttler's dismissal. Knight concentrated on asking Cook whether he thought Matthews had been sporting in allowing the appeal. I would have liked the question also raised as to what Cook thought of Buttler not heeding several warnings (apparently going back to the earlier ODI).

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Post by JDizzle on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 10:45 am

Yeah, I thought the delivery stride thing so I had a look at the Laws and the Laws say you can't do it in your delivery stride, but the ODI playing conditions confirm that the delivery stride should be taken as completion of your arm swing to bowl, so you can Mankad right up until the point your arm has gone through it's natural bowling motion.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:08 am

While Cook and his side are on a moan spree after Buttler stupidly gave his wicket away in the last game, it is time to analyze the series as such.
England went into the series with a recycled coach and without Kevin Pietersen, apparently the player who disrupted their Ashes winning campaign downunder on his own.
They were supposed to get going into a new era, but the side selected did not much reflect the same to start with. And now at the end of the day, they have lost a home ODI series to Sri Lanka. Subcontinent sides usually struggle in English conditions, and the series started in May, a time where touring sides often struggle to cope with the cold. In the Lankan lineup, players like Kusal Perera, Lahiru Thirimanne and Ashan Priyanjan came in without any real experience in English conditions. Other than Lasit Malinga, the Lankan bowling also didn't any extra spark, and spinners usually find life difficult in England, particularly in the early season exchanges.
Yet at the end of the day the Lankans are walking away with the series, a series of serious batting ineptitude from both sides.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:16 am

The England top order kept plodding away, the middle order kept struggling against spinners, and the bowlers weren't able to overcome inconsistencies. Jos Buttler emerged as one bright spark in the campaign, and Chris Jordan continues to evolve into a serious potential. Ian Bell performed OK, Joe Root and Ravi Bopara produced certain good moments. James Anderson lacked the usual penetration and Cook continues to struggle even without the disruptive influences.

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Post by GSC on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:22 am

You'd think we'd have just got whitewashed again.
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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:25 am

Congratulations to the Sri Lankans, they have beaten conditions to take away another away ODI series win.
England should serious introspection at least now, their ODI game plans need a restructuring. They need more power at the top, perhaps its time to think of Alex Hales...... And hopefully Ben Stokes will be back soon to replace the usually inconsistent Ravi Bopara. The Root-Bopara is not working as the 5th bowler, and one of them needs to go. Bopara has a more rounded ODI game to that of Root, but I think his temperament is very suspect.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:29 am

GSC wrote:You'd think we'd have just got whitewashed again.
Is that the mantra of the Post-Pietersen Era? Avoid getting whitewashed at all cost!!!.

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Post by GSC on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:29 am

I think Cook needs to take a long look at whether hes there on merit, or because hes captain, a la Vaughan. Certainly the top order takes too long in the modern game, and Bopara/Buttler/Jordan are left with too much to do to make a competitive target.
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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:34 am

And if England are really serious about Moeen Ali with bat or ball, they should bring him into the ODI side, may be in place of Ballance. He didn't do badly in the limited opportunities he got.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:39 am

Hales
Bell?
Root
Morgan(C)
Ali
Stokes
Buttler
Jordan
Broad
Tredwell
Finn.
I have never been convinced about Bell the ODI batsman, but he has just about been able to do a relative OK job. James Anderson has been a fine bowler, but he's getting on a bit, and hasn't been at his best for almost a year now. Perhaps he should focus on leading the test attack in the rest of his career.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:41 am

Of course England won't do any of it, they might drop Morgan for an indiferent series, and drop Jordan for Bresnan who will bring greater 'control!.

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Post by GSC on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:44 am

Finns far away atm. Ballance can play a more aggressive tone, seems to be told to rein it in up the order.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:08 pm

Yes best to leave Finn in county cricket to find his mojo again this season
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:11 pm

msp83 wrote:While Cook and his side are on a moan spree after Buttler stupidly gave his wicket away in the last game, it is time to analyze the series as such.
England went into the series with a recycled coach and without Kevin Pietersen, apparently the player who disrupted their Ashes winning campaign downunder on his own.
They were supposed to get going into a new era, but the side selected did not much reflect the same to start with. And now at the end of the day, they have lost a home ODI series to Sri Lanka. Subcontinent sides usually struggle in English conditions, and the series started in May, a time where touring sides often struggle to cope with the cold. In the Lankan lineup, players like Kusal Perera, Lahiru Thirimanne and Ashan Priyanjan came in without any real experience in English conditions. Other than Lasit Malinga, the Lankan bowling also didn't any extra spark, and spinners usually find life difficult in England, particularly in the early season exchanges.
Yet at the end of the day the Lankans are walking away with the series, a series of serious batting ineptitude from both sides.
A lot of very weird stereotypes in here. Kulasekara not enough spark? Senanyake?

Sri Lanka are the best one day outfit in the world, whatever conditions
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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:17 pm

GSC wrote:Finns far away atm. Ballance can play a more aggressive tone, seems to be told to rein it in up the order.
Balance hasn't come across as a very confident starter against spin. So if he plays, he has to come up the order, and there he has to find a way to score with intent for a longish period. Or else he has to go.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:20 pm

Ballance can be aggressive, he was top six hitter in the T20's a year or two back, and has shown in county cricket he can up the pace (Shelsey saw him whack Middlesex around at Lords this year!)

His record is outstanding, he deserves a good shot in the middle order. I don't think he's a 3
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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:27 pm

Or may be they can try
Hales
Root/Bell
Ali
Morgan(C)
Ballance
Stokes
Buttler
Jordan
Broad
Tredwell
Gurney/Finn.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:31 pm

msp83 wrote:Or may be they can try
Hales
Root/Bell
Ali
Morgan(C)
Ballance
Stokes
Buttler
Jordan
Broad
Tredwell
Gurney/Finn.
I'd certainly like to see something along these lines, Stokes/Bopara at 6, I'd have Anderson in there too for the time being until Finn is fit enough to come back in again. Gurney was alright, but didn't impress me as someone who will be a long term solution.

Certainly would like to see Moeen in the team #beardthatsfeared
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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 12:38 pm

Gurney is a stopgap. He does looke like someone with the nack to take wickets though there was not a lot special about him as a bowler. Finn it has to be, away from the Saker led lot, he is on the way back as his early season county form suggests. Perhaps it'll take a bit more time to get himself back together, till then Gurney could do the job. Or perhaps they can look at someone like Overton?

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 1:15 pm

these "spirit of cricket demands" from their opponents by england sound nothing but hypocritical and anachronistic
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Post by liverbnz on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 1:26 pm

I see Cook and nicely deflected attention away from another series where the batsmen fail. Not good enough from England, again. Batting is too slow, lacks purpose and is downright stupid at times. It's been said over and over but only because has been happening for years on end with a few purple spots in between.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 3:48 pm

The tactics are a little outdated, but I don't think they are necessarily wrong.

If your top order are gonna score slow, they are going to start needing to bat longer and make higher scores. Trott was brilliant in his ODI time at getting himself to about 50 off 55/60 balls after a slow start, and by the end he'd often be a run a ball. Cook/Bell just aren't doing that, Cook especially, and it just heaps unrealistic pressure on the middle/lower order. 

So its time to get a hitter in early like Hales, like Australia have done with Finch/Warner, India with Dhawan.
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Post by alfie on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 1:44 pm

Hales should be tried , of course. Think he will be , against India.
There is a problem with the fifth bowler to which there is currently no perfect solution. Horses for courses I think , for now. Unless and until Stokes totally nails a one day spot.
Leaving out Anderson at present would be madness. Still clearly the best and most reliable bowler in the team , and certainly needed , even though more rests might benefit him for the Tests. Perhaps keep him out of dead rubbers , or when they aren't too bothered about losing.

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