Englands Test XI for SL?

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Post by GSC on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 9:55 am

Wondering what the current thoughts are on Englands first test series post Flower.

Cook
Robson
Root
Ballance
Bell
Stokes
Ali
Prior
Jordan
Broad
Anderson

I imagine England might end up lining up like this. Would prefer Buttler in for Prior given his lack of match practice behind the stumps, not sure I'd be rushing back Broad either with his injury history. Not sure theres a genuine spin option worthy of test cricket yet. Bats deep at least
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Post by JDizzle on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:03 am

That's pretty much what I expect to see. Maybe a genuine spinner for Ali, I'd go Kerrigan, but that would be the only change.

Think if Prior can keep wicket then he plays, whether it is the right decision is an awkward one. Buttler's hardly set the world alight with his keeping and whilst his knock the other day was unbelievable I'm not convinced he's ready for Test cricket.

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Post by guildfordbat on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 2:47 pm

Moeen Ali tucked down the order at 7 and most likely to be asked to only bowl a few fill-in overs if required doesn't quite seem one thing or the other.

The rush to get Prior back surprises me. He was dropped for poor form in Australia and an achilles problem has restricted him to just one Championship match as keeper since then. I agree that Prior at his best should have the gloves but how near to that is he today? I feel others might well do a better job in the coming Test. From one extreme to the other - young Buttler would probably score more runs whilst either of the veterans Foster and Read would almost certainly keep more tidily.

I'm also unsure just how fit and ready Stokes and Broad are.

The above all said, it has to be accepted that compromises will need to be made and so I don't think that GSC's imagined team will be that far off the reality.

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Post by NickisBHAFC on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 4:55 pm

Id go for

1. Cook
2. Robson
3. Root
4. Bell
5. Ballance
6. Stokes
7. Prior/Butler
8. Broad
9. Jordan
10. Anderson
11. Kerrigan/Borthwick

If Broad isn't fit, id play Steven Finn or Tim Bresnan. Think this should be Prior's last chance. I hope Kerrigan or Borthwick play, one or the other will do fine for me.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 7:28 pm

Picking Jos Buttler will be a bold choice. Matt Prior had a terrible time after the New Zealand tour and it was his poor performance that led to him being dropped during the Ashes series. He has ongoing fitness concerns as well. Jonny Bairstow is not good enough for test cricket at the moment, his batting and keeping are not of international standards. But with the knock the other day, perhaps young Buttler would have done more harm than good to his chances as cricinfo's Andi Zaltsman jokingly observed. As he said, perhaps a 75 ball 50 with some conventional strokes might have convinced the selectors and Captain Cook who publicly said that Buttler is not ready for test cricket (what a joker he's turning out to be). Buttler is my choice, and if there is any substance to England's talk of a new era other than being a cover to finish off Pietersen, then that's the way they should take.
Not convinced about going in with Ali as the led spinner. But if the regular spinners are so unpickable, then Ali will be my choice above mediocre Scott Borthwick who doesn't land half of the deliveries and Samit Patel who though a much better bowler, hasn't taken his chances with the bat.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 7:29 pm

How is Nick Compton doing in county cricket? Unlikely the selectors will pick him, Sam Robson the former Australian U-19 player seems to be the flavor of the month.
Robson has a First Class average of 42, and has scored only 12 hundreds and 19 50s from 71 games. Not massive numbers, but he has scored runs this season, and had a decent time with the A side as well. And the thing going for him is that he's only 24.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:08 pm

I'd go with something similar to that, Buttler over Prior for me

Don't understand why Prior is back in as a certainty if fit, he didn't score any runs last summer or last winter and his glovework was poor in Australia as well, let alone the fact he's barely kept wicket this summer due to injury. 

Outside tip for me - Liam Plunkett.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 04 Jun 2014, 11:15 pm

Its a little exciting to have some genuine selection decisions to be made, they've had it easy over the past few years, time to earn your money now!
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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 12:10 am

msp83 wrote:How is Nick Compton doing in county cricket? Unlikely the selectors will pick him, Sam Robson the former Australian U-19 player seems to be the flavor of the month.
Robson has a First Class average of 42, and has scored only 12 hundreds and 19 50s from 71 games. Not massive numbers, but he has scored runs this season, and had a decent time with the A side as well. And the thing going for him is that he's only 24.

Msp - Compton seems very much the forgotten man. Little mention of him in the English cricket media. Surprising as he's done very well this season. Virtually 400 runs from 9 innings, 8 completed, at an average of almost 50. One century (exactly 100 not out) and a couple of 90s. He should also have in his favour that he can open (as he's done for England) or bat in the early middle order (as he normally does for Somerset).

What he hasn't done and probably counts against him (along with his previous publicised comments) is ''to score big''.

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Post by liverbnz on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 12:58 am

Butler has kept wicket 21 times at FC level.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 8:24 am

liverbnz wrote:Butler has kept wicket 21 times at FC level.
When the other candidates haven't presented a compelling case to pick them over Buttler, Buttler's immense talent, coupled with the fact that he's young and England are set to be going through a transformation era, should mean he's picked. He has taken his chances at limited over level, and he had a decent FC season before international duties took over.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 8:51 am

Rumor is that Stokes is out

If he's out and Prior is in, I'm gonna lose my sh1t 

Just warn you guys
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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 8:56 am

Olly wrote:Rumor is that Stokes is out

If he's out and Prior is in, I'm gonna lose my sh1t 

Just warn you guys
What!? is he friends with Kevin Pietersen? Other than performing alright in a side that embraced mediocrity and thus violating the collective spirit, that has to be the only reason why young Ben has to be out!.

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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 8:56 am

Other than fitness
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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:06 am

GSC wrote:Other than fitness
Stokes has made a return to domestic cricket and has played a few games for his county including First Class games hasn't he? Matt Prior has had fitness issues throughout the season, and despite his poor international form for a year, he has kept in only one FC game this season.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:08 am

If Stokes is left out through fitness concerns I could understand so long as Prior isn't in (cos he's played less the Stokes)

He's played about 3 first class and a couple of t20 games I think
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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:11 am

So who is likely for Stokes? The undroppable Mr. Control?

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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:15 am

You'd want to protect Stokes more as a 23 year old all rounder I suspect. Playing the long game with him.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:16 am

msp83 wrote:So who is likely for Stokes? The undroppable Mr. Control?
If that is the case then I'm fairly sure you'll spontaneously combust msp  Very Happy
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:16 am

Probably Plunkett if you go by my side. It bats pretty deep as it is.
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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:24 am

Olly wrote:
msp83 wrote:So who is likely for Stokes? The undroppable Mr. Control?
If that is the case then I'm fairly sure you'll spontaneously combust msp  Very Happy
I don't really put it pass the England selectors!!.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:25 am

Worth noting Broad has only played 2 FC games this year as well, if Stokes is being dropped for unfitness (is that a word?)
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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:27 am

GSC wrote:Probably Plunkett if you go by my side. It bats pretty deep as it is.
Plunkett 1.0 in international cricket wasn't much impressive. But I heard he's come along a long way since the county switch and is bowling quick and effective in recent times. Has his batting improved as well? He could always bat, but is he kind of a number 7 now?

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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:28 am

Olly wrote:Worth noting Broad has only played 2 FC games this year as well, if Stokes is being dropped for unfitness (is that a word?)
That's why I said 'unfitness' is not the reason. It has to be Pietersen, has to be!!.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:30 am

Or may be they'll reveal the real reasons in November 2015!.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:32 am

Olly, what do the grape vine say about chances of Jordan? Or will it be Tremlett or Onions or a recently unretired Andrew Flintoff?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:34 am

I think Jordan is pretty much a lock

Plunkett seems to be the outside candidate, bowling fast, makes decent runs down the order
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:54 am

Hearing no Prior
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 9:55 am

Probably Foster
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:01 am

@Aggerscricket: England 12: Cook Robson Bell Ballance Root Ali Prior Jordan Broad Plunkett Anderson Woakes. Stokes still recovering. Plunkett last Test 2007
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:02 am

So with Stokes out, its likely a straight fight between Plunkett and Woakes. Imagine Plunkett will win.

I was pretty close with my team tbf.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:04 am

Honestly don't understand how Prior is deemed fit enough yet Stokes isn't (reports were Stokes was getting the ball through quick against Middlesex)

Other than that I'm fairly satisfied. Would love to see Woakes given a go.
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:04 am

Carberry, you know who, Bairstow, Stokes, Borthwick and Rankin dropped from the SCG side
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:05 am

I'd rather see Plunkett tbh. Woakes hasn't struck me as international standard, seemed more of a bits and pieces player at International level so far.
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:06 am

On Stokes, probably a higher standard of fitness required being that he bowls pace, bats and fields.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:07 am

I think Woakes could be a very good player, don't think one day stiff is his strong suit

Honestly don't understand the prior selection, fitness issues aside, he was dropped for shocking form for a prolonged period and has done little to show that's been reversed.
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Post by jimbohammers on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:08 am

Carbs dropped from the test team despite being 2nd top run scorer in the Ashes. (2nd to KP)

The way they have treated him is disgraceful

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:09 am

GSC wrote:On Stokes, probably a higher standard of fitness required being that he bowls pace, bats and fields.
Then surely the same should apply to Broad, who has played similar amounts of cricket to stokes this season, and has an outstanding knee issue
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Post by GSC on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:11 am

Different injuries.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:15 am

Well aside from the stokes/prior selection madness I'm personally quite happy with what they've done going with no spinner

Ali, Robson and Jordan all deserving of a shot. Plunkett has turned into a genuine fast bowler since going to Yorkshire apparently, so will be interesting to see how he goes. Ballance certainly excites me the most as I said in the thread I made
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Post by jimbohammers on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:16 am

The only 2 players to show a bit of guts against Australia gone.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:16 am

My gripe is why not put Stokes in the squad, make it a 13 man thing, see how he is fitness wise, and if he's not ready simply cut him and send him back to Durham
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:17 am

Carberry really wasn't very good against Australia, looked very limited in his scoring strokes and his fielding was shocking in that series also.
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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:27 am

Prior. Hmmm. I do fear we're picking him as we want him to be what he was in the past rather than what he may be today. A Test match lasting five days isn't the best place to find out.

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Post by guildfordbat on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:33 am

So Hoggy Bear's campaign proves successful as he gets his man Woakes into the twelve. Quite what Hoggy has in mind to get him into the eleven I don't know but I suggest Plunkett keep one eye over his shoulder!  Very Happy 

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Post by jimbohammers on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:37 am

Olly, eh? ,2nd top scorer, saw off the new ball, played Johnson better than anyone. Oh and 1 dropped catch made him a 'shocking fielder' ? Come on...

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:45 am

Prior seems a huge risk to me. Have England gone with him due to lack of options? They obviously want a keeper who'll score significant runs at Test level, which rules out Foster, Read and Bates. And they feel Buttler isn't ready yet (I'm not sure I agree with that). That leaves Bairstow, who hasn't looked up to scratch, and Prior. Prior at least has been scoring a few runs this season, and will surely do a better job against the not-so-hot SL bowling, but like many on here I'm concerned about the fitness.

Moores seems to be a fan of Woakes, I'm not really, don't feel he'll get good batsmen out, but that's my opinion, which is worth considerably less than those of the England selectors.

Stokes out. Seems a sensible call all things considered. I think we have to remember that all we have to go by on various players fitness are press reports (and for some lucky people watching them at the ground). The England management will have significantly better ingormation on that account, and I have to back them to make the right calls. Stokes is young, and expected to bat, bowl and field to a high class level, the last thing England want is him to break down. I fully expect him to come back in for the next Test.

Moeen in. I'm not utterly convinced by his batting (I actually have no doubts over his ability to do a job with the ball), but he's just about earned his chance. It's not a balance I'm particularly fond of, I'd rather see England pick a specialist spinner (Kerrigan or Tredwell), as I don't think in general it's a combination that will work long term.

Plunkett in. An interesting call. By all reports he's been doing really well for Yorkshire, bowling quickly and accurately, and seems a better bowler than when he was picked for England first time around (where despite the odd moment he was way too inconsistent). He's certainly had a great start to the season, and has earned his chance.

Still no Finn. Probably the right call IMO. The feeling is he'll benefit from getting lots of bowling in for Middlesex in a lower-pressure environment, get his action back, and will be back in the England frame sooner rather than later. England have messed him up a bit, and set his career back a couple of years at least, but on this one they've got it right.

Jordan in. No surprises there, my concern is that he tends to slide a few too many deliveries into the pads, which you won't get away with so much in Test cricket, but there's no doubt he's an attacking bowler who'll get wickets.

All in all an interesting selection, some calls I disagree with, but no one in that squad hasn't at least earned a chance IMO, and it actually looks quite an exciting team to me, so really looking forward to it.

Come on England!


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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:48 am

jimbohammers wrote:Olly, eh? ,2nd top scorer, saw off the new ball, played Johnson better than anyone. Oh and 1 dropped catch made him a 'shocking fielder' ? Come on...

Not just the one dropped catch, his general fielding was very poor, people were pointing it out at the time.

He didn't score many runs at all, he got in a few times and failed to make a big score. Personally I think Compton would've deserved a recall over Carberry.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 10:54 am

I'm with Olly on this one. Carberry's general fielding just looks substandard whenever he plays for England. I think in the ODI vs Ireland for instance he dropped 2 oe 3 easy catches, and in the Ashes, dropped catch aside there were a lot of fumbles, a few misfields. It's odd because he looks a fine fielder for Hampshire, but in an England shirt it doesn't happen.

re his batting, my main issue was that once the ball got a little older and the fields more defensive he simply couldn't score. He got completely stuck, which leads to too much pressure being built. I know people will say he did better than most, but really that's not much of an argument considering how awful everyone was on that tour.

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Thu 05 Jun 2014, 11:06 am

guildfordbat wrote:So Hoggy Bear's campaign proves successful as he gets his man Woakes into the twelve. Quite what Hoggy has in mind to get him into the eleven I don't know but I suggest Plunkett keep one eye over his shoulder!  Very Happy 

I'd give a more detailed answer to that, but I'm rushing to get my train to Durham!! Very Happy 

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