New Zealand in West Indies 2014

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Post by msp83 on Sun 08 Jun 2014, 8:50 am

First topic message reminder :

New Zealand's tour of West Indies comprising of 3 tests and 2 T-20Is is getting into the act today as the first test gets underway today.
The West Indies are going in with a new captain in Denesh Ramdin after Daren Sammy was sacked as captain following which he retired from test cricket. For New Zealand, they are slowly getting their act together in test after Brendon McCullum's captaincy first year was largely disappointing.
As far as the squads go, West Indies have recalled fast bowler Jerome Taylor after 4 years since he played a test. Taylor can form a pretty decent opening attack with a fit again Kemar Roach, and Jason Holder is added to the squad in case they need more seam bowling cover. Suliman Ben is also recalled to the test squad, and Shane Shillingford is making a comeback after a suspect action suspension. Sunil Narine is banned for the series after he decided to prioritise the IPL over West Indies cricket as he missed a deadline for a West Indies training camp. Chris Gayle, who is playing his 100th test, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Marlon Samuels and Daren Bravo form the backborn of the batting unit. The other remaining positions have to be worked out between Kieran Powell, Kraigg Brathwaite and Kirk Edwards.
As for New Zealand, Peter Fulton and Hamish Rutherford who both struggled for consistency last season, face competition from Tom Latham for a top order position. But in Kane Williamson, Ross Taylor and skipper McCullum, they have a settled middle order to be backed up by wicketkeeper BJ Watling. Corey Anderson's injury before the first test is a setback and it is interesting to see who they would go in with at 6 for the first game. It could be Jimmy Neesham who scored a ton in his debut test, or it could be reserve wicketkeeper Luke Ronchi who has shown greater consistency with the bat in ODIs last year, or it could be Tom Latham down the order. The advantage with Neesham is that he can add to the depth of the bowling unit and is more of a like-for-like replacement for Anderson. . Daniel Vetori's test career seems to be finished as he yet again failed to regain fitness, and so Ish Sodhi will be leading the spin attack to be backed up by debutant Mark Craig. But Trent Boult and Tim Southee form a potent new ball attack to be backed by the ever persisting Neil Wagner.
It is not a high profile series, but it should be an interesting one with 2 closely matched sides fighting it out.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 6:02 pm

Dwayne Bravo is a mercurial cricketer....
if he plays with his heart in the game.....he is a top class allrounder...but the problem is he barely looks past IPL seriously
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Post by msp83 on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 6:19 pm

Anyways he's not back to full fitness and so not available for selection.......

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 6:26 pm

then they should look at Andre Russel as an allrounder
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Post by msp83 on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 7:10 pm

Russell has been in some form in the recent series against Bangladesh A. Scored a ridiculously quick ton in one of the game and took a 6for in another. Those were limited over games and of course it was Bangladesh A, but it was some performance really. And considering their specialist batsmen aren't any good, Russell wouldn't have been a bad pick really. Quite capable of batting 7, and with his recent improvement, captain Ramdin could easily bat 6.
Gayle
Brathwaite
Darren Bravo
Another batsman, Simmons? Blackwood? Johnson? Or may be Edwards.......
Chanderpaul
Ramdin
Russell
Taylor
Roach
2 of Shillingford/Narine/Holder/Ben according to conditions.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 7:15 pm

Russel is not just a medium pacer but a 90mph bowler.

I do not see Roach, Fidel Edwards or Tino best as test quality bowlers...because they are so shoulder powered that they lose their pace quite quickly.


Taylor is good though
Kevin Cooper is a good bowler.....not express but brisk and a much better prospect
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Post by msp83 on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 7:26 pm

Kemar Roach has been a very impressive bowler, and whenever he has been fit, has performed well for the test side. Can't say that about Fidel Edwardss or Tino Best, Roach is a much better bowler than the 2 in my view.
Kevon Cooper has played 91 T-20s, 11 ODIs and only 2 First Class games. Not seen as anywhere near a long format prospect even in domestic cricket.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 7:38 pm

msp83 wrote:Kemar Roach has been a very impressive bowler, and whenever he has been fit, has performed well for the test side. Can't say that about Fidel Edwardss or Tino Best, Roach is a much better bowler than the 2 in my view.
Kevon Cooper has played 91 T-20s, 11 ODIs and only 2 First Class games. Not seen as anywhere near a long format prospect even in domestic cricket.

not goping by stats...purely looking at his bolwing....he looks good........Walsh like
Roach is a very shoulder powered bowler.....so how much does he remain fit ?
he cannot be one of the 2 bowlers in a 2 man seam attack.....
then they need to bring a 3rd seamer in who can do about 15 to 20 overs per day,..........in eitehr bravo or Russel
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Post by msp83 on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 8:08 pm

Walsh bowled over 140 KPH at the age of 38. Cooper doesn't have the pace to be successful in test cricket, crafty T-20 bowler, and because he doesn't have the pace or even swing like say PK or Bhuvi, he's a non-starter in the longer format. And he had some issues about his bowling action as well. And played his last FC game in 2012.......
Roach has had fitness issues for sure, but when he's been fit, he's been very very good. Remember Ricky Ponting getting smashed on the elbow? He was very good in England as well. But yes, his body could do with some support from a good seamer who can take away some of the workload.......

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Post by ShankyCricket on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 7:14 pm

Kevon Cooper over Kemar Roach in Test Cricket? Words fail me at times.....

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Post by msp83 on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 8:16 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:Kevon Cooper over Kemar Roach in Test Cricket? Words fail me at times.....
Don't think that exactly was the intented suggestion. Cooper as one of the all-rounder possibilities........ Non-starter really though.......

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:18 am

The 2nd test starts today. West Indies will go in with at least 2, possibly 3 changes. Kieran Powell and Marlon Samuels who played the first test are dropped. Kraigg Brathwaite will replace Powell at the top and partner Chris Gayle. But it will be interesting as to who gets the chance to replace Samuels. Jermaine Blackwood has a better FC average but Leon Johnson is more experienced in domestic cricket, and has even played a few ODIs as well. The 3rd possible change is in the spin department. The track is said to be friendlier to seam bowling, so West Indies might go in with just the one spinner. Shane Shillingford has some fitness issues as well. So it is more than likely that one of Shannon Gabriel and Jason Holder will get to play.
As for New Zealand, they have dropped the out of sorts opener Peter Fulton, and Hamish Rutherford will be partnering Tom Latham. If the track is likely to assist pace, Ish Sodhi might have to sit out for Neil Wagner.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:16 pm

The 2nd test is underway. New Zealand won the toss and are batting. They have made just the one change, Hamish Rutherford in for Peter Fulton. They are going in with the spinners Mark Craig and Ish Sodhi. So no Wagner, it is down to Jimmy Neesham to provide seem bowling backup to Tim Southee and Trent Boult.
As for West Indies, Kraigg Brathwaite takes his place at the top of the order as expected. It is young Jermaine Blackwood who comes in for Marlon Samuels. West Indies have a 3rd seamer as Shannon Gabriel comes in for Shane Shillingford.

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Post by kingraf on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:25 pm

Pitch looks quite impressive, a little lively old thing.
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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:35 pm

kingraf wrote:Pitch looks quite impressive, a little lively old thing.
Hope the initial impressions stay true......

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:36 pm

New Zealand 15 without loss after 8 overs. They are surviving the new ball attack so far.......

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:41 pm

First wicket for West Indies, its Jerome Taylor with the first strike. Rutherford plays at one outside off and edges to slip. NZ 16-1.
Both Taylor and Roach, particularly the later, haven't been making the batsman play enough. But now they have an opening, they should show greater discipline.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 7:15 pm

No matter green pitch or flat pitch, the West Indies are sinking!.
New Zealand 132-2 on a pitch that looked a good one for proper cricket. Tom Latham and Kane Williamson batted well to put together a hundred partnership, but Gabriel has just got KW. Ross Taylor joins Latham in the middle.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 7:17 pm

msp83 wrote:No matter green pitch or flat pitch, the West Indies are sinking!.
New Zealand 132-2 on a pitch that looked a good one for proper cricket. Tom Latham and Kane Williamson batted well to put together a hundred partnership, but Gabriel has just got KW. Ross Taylor joins Latham in the middle.

if the pitch is green why did NZ bat first ?
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 7:24 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:No matter green pitch or flat pitch, the West Indies are sinking!.
New Zealand 132-2 on a pitch that looked a good one for proper cricket. Tom Latham and Kane Williamson batted well to put together a hundred partnership, but Gabriel has just got KW. Ross Taylor joins Latham in the middle.

if the pitch is green why did NZ bat first ?
Would imagine with there two spinners they would want to be bowling last on the wicket
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 7:26 pm

if the pitch is green why are they playing 2 spinners?
why Ish sodhi?
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 7:27 pm

Pitch will lose its green tinge, its not really a green strip you see in England

Never change a winning side kpf Wink
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Post by kingraf on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 7:30 pm

All I know is the ball was coming to the 'keeper at head height, good pace and bounce then.
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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 7:49 pm

NZ did change their side alright, Peter Fulton was dropped for Hamish Rutherford, didn't make much of a difference in the first innings at least.
McCullum said at the toss that the side was selected keeping in mind the possibilities and permutations for all 5 days. And as Jimmy Neesham is there as the all-rounder, Southee and Boult has seam bowling back-up as well.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:08 pm

Young Tom Latham went pass 50 for the third innings in the series, but for the 3rd time he failed to convert it into a ton, gone for 82 as Kemar Roach located his edge that traveled to Suliman Ben. McCullum and Taylor at the crease. NZ 161-3.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:24 pm

Brendon Mccullum...

Test average - 37.47

Breakdown :
Against India - 68  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard  picard 

Against Bangladesh - 56

Against Zimbabwe - 49.

Against Others- 30.11

If at all there was a more damning indictment for Indian bowlers.....  Tumbleweed 

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:27 pm

^ that's largely under dhoni that he has conceded so much to McCullum
AND
if you dissect Cook's averages he might show a similar high breakdown against India under dhoni and minnows
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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:29 pm

McCullum made only 4 today, LBW to Ben. Neesham and Taylor at the crease, NZ 181-4.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:31 pm

Neesham is chasing Azahruddin's record of 3 hundreds in the first 3 tests of the career........ He scored 1 in his debut test against India, and another one in his 2nd game last week.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:40 pm

No record for Neesham, at least for now. He's gone, Jerome Taylor finds the edge and Gayle takes the catch. NZ 192-5. BJ Watling into yet another damage control operation. He has made a career out of fighting out in such situations......

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:41 pm

2014-06-17
KP_fan wrote:^ that's largely under dhoni that he has conceded so much to McCullum
AND
if you dissect Cook's averages he might show a similar high breakdown against India under dhoni and minnows
Cook's career is largely built on those 2 humongous series. Against India in 2012/13 and of course the 2010/11 Ashes. Fully expect him our bowlers to bring back into form later this summer.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:42 pm

Hard to really understand the Sodhi selection on this pitch. Not as if he is a better bet than Wagner even on a turner. Was really poor last game.

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Post by kingraf on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:48 pm

198-6!
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Post by kingraf on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:48 pm

198-6!
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:52 pm

wickets are tumbling quicker at Port of Spain....6 down now
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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:57 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:2014-06-17
KP_fan wrote:^ that's largely under dhoni that he has conceded so much to McCullum
AND
if you dissect Cook's averages he might show a similar high breakdown against India under dhoni and minnows
Cook's career is largely built on those 2 humongous series. Against India in 2012/13 and of course the 2010/11 Ashes. Fully expect him our bowlers to bring back into form later this summer.
No doubts, Cook is waiting to get the next game out of the way before filling his boots and boosting his average. Don't be surprised if Sam Robson is compared to Boycott by the English media by September, Garry Ballance the new Bradman and Ian Bell the new Pietersen!....

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 8:59 pm

If we can make Mccullum look world class, I shudder to think what someone like Cook could do if he got on a bit of a role. He is a weak attack basher of the highest order.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:01 pm

Sodhi and Southee are very capable lower order batters, Craig too has a bit of a similar reputation in NZ domestic cricket, and Boult is a fine entertaining number 11 who is a very effective slogger. Remembering the Age of the Fantom with lots of nostalgia!.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:03 pm

I am just hoping against hope that Kohli, Pujara and Rahane can save at least a test. A 4-0 score line is very much the possibility......

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:06 pm

Oh dear, NZ folding like a pack of cards here. WI-esque collapse.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:08 pm

msp83 wrote:I am just hoping against hope that Kohli, Pujara and Rahane can save at least a test. A 4-0 score line is very much the possibility......
Pretty much although I'd be a lot more optimistic if we had a captain who is interested in winning a Test abroad.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:12 pm

Jerom Taylor gets his 4th as Sodhi goes. NZ 199-7. If only the West Indies had held their catches. Tom Latham was dropped on 58 and Kane Williamson on 19. Ben the unlucky bowler both times, Ramdin let off Latham and Gayle put down KW. Latham made 82 and Williamson 42 eventually.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:16 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:I am just hoping against hope that Kohli, Pujara and Rahane can save at least a test. A 4-0 score line is very much the possibility......
Pretty much although I'd be a lot more optimistic if we had a captain who is interested in winning a Test abroad.
Dhoni gets a lot of stick for his sit back approach in overseas tess and rightly so. But with the kind of bowling attack that we've got, I wouldn't be too hopeful even if its someone like Michael Clarke leading the side with Mike Brearley as head coach and Stephen Fleming as batting coach!.......

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:19 pm

7th gone......sodhi didn't even make it up with the bat ......gone for a blob
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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:28 pm

Not too much damage from Southee, he goes for 10, his review of the LBW decision of Ben's bowling not succeeding. New Zealand 210-8.

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:32 pm

Anyone doubting Jerome Taylor's talent has been put on notice once again

What a fantastic bowler he is. Fast, movement and intelligent. Hopefully Roach, Holder and Gabriel can learn of him.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:36 pm

Craig has a First Class average of 22 and a highest of 93, but he doesn't last long here, He goes for 4, good catch by Bravo of Gabriel. NZ 215-9. Ross Taylor a helpless spectator to the madness around him.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:39 pm

If you go to the Land of the Chanderpaul, be one they say!. Ross Taylor is doing just that, taking every run that comes his way including singles of the first ball of the over, and runs every run for his partner at the other with equal determination........

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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:42 pm

Taylor has only 1 of the last 18 runs and he has seen Watling, Sodhi, Southee and Craig going back to the hut during that period, and Neesham just before that.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:55 pm

220 all out...good stuff by WI
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Post by msp83 on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 10:02 pm

So the last 9 goes for less than a hundred. Terrific from Taylor and Ben, and decent support from Gabriel. Roach did take a wicket, that too of the well set and in form Tom Latham, but he hasn't yet recaptured his A game as yet......
Not sure the West Indies batsmen will appreciate New Zealand doing a Collapso, the WI batsmen have made it into an artform really. Can the role reversal continue?

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