Eng v Lanka...first test

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 12 Jun 2014, 11:22 am

First topic message reminder :

Eng lose debutant Robson......on seemingly a seaming pitch inserted in after lanka won toss
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Post by msp83 on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 6:30 pm

If the game is opened up just that little bit, a lot of credit should go to the parttimer Moeen Ali who got the big wicket of Sangakkara. That wicket really provided England an opening into the Lanking lower order and they have cashed in alright after that.
Ali is still a parttimer and I still believe it is not a good idea to go in without a regular spinner, but Ali can take some confidence from that wicket.......

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Post by msp83 on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 6:34 pm

At stumps on day 3, Sri Lanka are 415-7 with Angelo Mathews on 79 and Rangana Herath on 0. They are still behind England first innings score by 160 runs.
If England manage to bowl Lanka out in the first hour tomorrow for no more than 20-30 runs, it will be very interesting to see how Cook and England go about things.......

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 6:39 pm

more or less the game has gone per script below
so we will see how much Cook does tomm to force a result

KP_fan wrote:--if they bat one more day........on a true pitch like this one...Lanka will get at least another 300ish......so that will take them to 450ish.

--even if they lose 3 wickets per session they still last the day......it's very likely that Lanka will last the day tomm

--that gives Eng 125+ and 2 days in hand......and then Cook will be subjected to "positivity test"

---if he bats 2 sessions and gives his bowlers 4 sessions to bowl out Lanka...he passes the test

---if he bats 3 sessions...he fails

Clarke would have passed the test...Cook....hmmmm let's wait and see....let Lanka bat thru tomm to invoke the "test"
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 8:31 pm

decent workmanlike performance from England today. I thought Plunkett was a little unlucky, he bowled some good spells without any luck and was coming in at 90mph plus at the end of the day which in those conditions is a very good effort. England stuck to their task well on a pitch that since the first hour or so has really offered nothing (ok a little bit with the second new ball today, but...). To be fair SL batted very well, particularly Sangakkara who played superbly.

England need to nip out the last three sharpish tomorrow. If they can get a lead of 120+ they might just have a chance to force a result. They'll have to bat fast and well though, don't expect this pitch will deteriorate much (Lords doesn't as a rule). I would look at setting SL 370-odd and declaring maybe an hour after tea? Don't think you can look for too much more TBH.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 8:47 pm

Yeah I'd agree with MFC there, but it all depends on these three wickets, IG we can get them in the first hour and have a lead of 130 odd we have a sniff, if they're still in at lunch it'll be pretty much impossible to force a result
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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 10:04 pm

Didn't see much of today's play but my impression, like MfC's more considered view, was that we commendably stuck at it. Jordan, in particular, should be pleased with his two wickets and, more importantly, will hopefully learn a lot from his 27 overs so far.

I'm not a fan of Cook's captaincy but feel criticism from some of his not declaring sooner is wrong. We went at a good lick and hardly overdid the amount of runs we'll need to win (whether in one innings or two). I appreciate the concept of dangling a carrot to the opposition to increase your own chances of winning but you also need to be wary of not ending up being overly generous and a losing fool. For these sort of reasons and even assuming things reasonably go our way tomorrow, I wouldn't declare our second innings quite as quickly as Mfc suggests - maybe put Sri Lanka in for 30 minutes before stumps.

By all means regard me here as too cautious. I just think that whilst a win would be wonderful, it is also important to end our run of Test losses. More specifically, Sri Lanka are no mugs with the willow and most Lords' wickets last the distance.

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Post by kingraf on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 10:15 pm

Cook could save a baby from a burning car, and people would complain that he didn't save the car as well.

Nothing you can really do on this sort of pitch, especially if you don't have a Steyn or Johnson, who basically bypass dead pitches with raw race. All you can do as a captain is stick to the plan, trust the processes, and hopefully sneak a stick or two to set the cat amongst the pigeons. Whatever happens, I'd give myself 110 overs to bowl. Two new cherries, and a morning of day five. Don't want the ball to aged for the morning session, as if anything happens, it will happen in the morning.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 10:36 pm

to be fair a lot of the criticism of Cook's declaration came from Michael Holding, whose views should be taken with a pinch of salt regarding England (which is unfortunate, as he's a pretty good pundit otherwise). Talk of England declaring on 400 is of course absurd, given how beautiful the pitch has been for batting over the last two-and-a-half days. As guildford rightfully points out, England were racing along (ca 5.5 per over on day 2, considering they scored 230-odd runs for four wickets is not too shabby), so not too sure what they'd have gained by declaring earlier in any case.

I suspect SL would have gone about their innings in pretty much the same way had they been responding to 400. They haven't seemed to me to be particularly defensive, they've just batted sensibly, against bowling which was more accurate than what they dished down. Nope, for me, Cook got the declaration right, he declared with three-and-a-half days cricket still to be played, plenty of time to try to force the result. If England are unable to do so, it will be because of a very flat pitch, and some excellent SL batting, not because they declared too late in their first innings (though still obviously a possibility for the second innings).

Cook's captaincy today wasn't bad at all: he rotated his bowlers well, tried different plans (short stuff from Plunkett, wide of off-stump to Sanga) which he committed to 100% when he did try them. A nice one for him too was the wicket of P. Jayawardene, caught at leg-slip. No, don't feel Cook can be criticised too much for his captaincy here (so far!).

On a side-note, we're always quick to have a go at flat pitches in the subcontinent and WI (and recently NZ too), so I think it's only fair to say that I've been disappointed by this one. Too little in it for the bowlers - particularly fast bowlers, but Herath got about one ball to turn in two days, and Moeen hasn't even managed that - I know they're not the biggest turners of the ball but...

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 10:42 pm

Raf - liked your comment about Cook!

Doubt we'll have enough time to bowl 110 overs in Sri Lanka's second innings. With normally only 90 overs being bowled in the day, we would need to declare pretty early on day 4.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 11:00 pm

MfC - yes, I had Mike Holding's comments particularly in mind. I normally like his punditry but thought he was well wide of the mark today.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 11:50 pm

I have to concur with everyone on the declaration thing, would've been absolute madness to declare around 400 considering the rate we were scoring at and the wickets we had in the hutch. We scored near enough 600 inside one and a half days and people are still moaning. We could score 800 off 100 overs and people would moan!!!
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Post by alfie on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 1:52 am

No problems with Cook's captaincy so far...first innings dead right I think : scoring fast , left a short burst before tea and then one session to bowl at them ...since then some imaginative field placings , tried things with his bowlers...
If England can get the last three sharpish tomorrow , and score quickly , then he will be tested with his target setting (and will probably be criticized whatever he does , unless it works perfectly) ; but to date. I can't fault him.
Some runs would be nice , mind  Smile 

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 11:03 am

Don't really understand this field we've spread it far and wide for Matthews, gotta get him at some point
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 11:09 am

And we've just bowled six short balls for Herath to duck

Not too sure about these plans
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 11:14 am

And Mathews edges two straight through the vacant slip cordon

Sorry Mr Cook but this is all sorts of wrong

If Anderson isn't bowling short you don't need a deep fine leg, deep square leg, deep point and deep third man.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 11:31 am

Olly wrote:And we've just bowled six short balls for Herath to duck

Not too sure about these plans
Look what happens when you bowl it full to him!!

God I've turned into Shane Warne
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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 11:34 am

Cracking ball from Anderson to dismiss Herath. That would have accounted for most number 9s and better.

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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:09 pm

Matthews falls lbw to Plunkett just after making his century. Good ball from Plunkett - leg side but not enough to justify Matthews' referral. Fine knock from Matthews but he'll be disappointed he couldn't hang around to hammer another 20 or 30 runs. England should now get a lead in excess of 100 ....

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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:13 pm

Surprised to see England fielding coach Chris Taylor coming on as 12th man for Anderson. Thought they would have had a young player for that job. Taylor has been working with Surrey this season and has been spoken of very highly by Alec Stewart.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:14 pm

I shouldn't laugh cos he could be hurt, but that was hilarious 

Can't beat a hit wicket
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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:21 pm

A somewhat fortunate but still deserved third wicket for Chris Jordan to dismiss Sri Lanka for 453. Ideally, we would have got them all out for a bit less half an hour earlier.

Sensible but stretching aim now for England would be to put Sri Lanka back in for 20 minutes tonight facing a target of 400. England will need to bat sensibly before putting their feet on the gas. Losing quick wickets before lunch in a mad dash needs to be avoided.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:26 pm

so Eng do get a lead of 125odd.........just that they took a bit more overs....or should we say Lanka took a bit more time to get to 450.....

NOW will Cook be positive ?
75 overs left in the day
bat 55 overs...get about 250 ish
target 375 ish for Lanka in 20 overs today Plus 90 tomm....

If Eng bat any longer....with 4 seamer, home conditions, 5th day pitch to bowl on.....it will be a moral win for Lanka
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Post by kingraf on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 12:41 pm

So my 110 overs theory looks like it will be there or thereabouts.
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 1:07 pm

kingraf wrote:So my 110 overs theory looks like it will be there or thereabouts.

we don't know whether it looks like it now  Very Happy 
we think this is what a reasonably positive captain should aim for.
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Post by guildfordbat on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 1:09 pm

kingraf wrote:So my 110 overs theory looks like it will be there or thereabouts.

Certainly, Raf. Just a bit on the high side imo as I've been banging on about above. I would think around 95.

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Post by kingraf on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 1:29 pm

64 Overs left - bat about 50, at maybe 3-3.5, Leaves Lanka with 350ish to chase. Which is certainly achievable. I don't think England can win without dangling a carrot.
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 1:35 pm

sitting here we believe...Eng are thinking "how to win"

maybe what's going thru Cook's mind is......"God what will be enough to no lose"

and it's his actions in the balance of the day that will give away his mentality
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:03 pm

I think England need to be careful the carrot they dangle (if they choose to do so) isn't too easy to reach though. 350 in 110 overs seems like a little too generous to me. Lords doesn't deteriorate much, and if SL bat at the same pace they did in the first innings they'd reach that without too many problems.

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Post by jimbohammers on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:18 pm

Robson looks way out of his depth. Call up too early?

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Post by Nachos Jones on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:20 pm

KP_fan wrote:sitting here we believe...Eng are thinking "how to win"

maybe what's going thru Cook's mind is......"God what will be enough to no lose"

and it's his actions  in the balance of the day that will give away his mentality

Would there be anything that Cook does that could be considered good for you?

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:33 pm

Sam Robson lacks the technically ability to play a Test cricket. Footwork is ordinary at best. Bat comes down at an angle.

No wonder he was never good enough of New South Wales...

The much hyped Alastair Cook failed yet again. And hometown bully Ian Bell gets cleaned up by the impressive Eranga.

KP anyone???

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Post by Nachos Jones on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:38 pm

Gerry SA wrote:Sam Robson lacks the technically ability to play a Test cricket. Footwork is ordinary at best. Bat comes down at an angle.

No wonder he was never good enough of New South Wales...

The much hyped Alastair Cook failed yet again. And hometown bully Ian Bell gets cleaned up by the impressive Eranga.

KP anyone???

The much hyped Alastair Cook? The same Alastair Cook that has 100+ tests with well over 8000 test runs at 44, that same person? If you think that is much hyped then I would love to see what you think is normal for a test opener. His test record is not that dissimilar to that of KP, which you would appear to want return...

Maybe somewhat out of form but he is certainly a class player.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:46 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:Sam Robson lacks the technically ability to play a Test cricket. Footwork is ordinary at best. Bat comes down at an angle.

No wonder he was never good enough of New South Wales...

The much hyped Alastair Cook failed yet again. And hometown bully Ian Bell gets cleaned up by the impressive Eranga.

KP anyone???

The much hyped Alastair Cook? The same Alastair Cook that has 100+ tests with well over 8000 test runs at 44, that same person? If you think that is much hyped then I would love to see what you think is normal for a test opener. His test record is not that dissimilar to that of KP, which you would appear to want return...

Maybe somewhat out of form but he is certainly a class player.
Cook's average is boosted by two fluke series. Ashes 2010/11, in 5 Ashes series he's averaged 28 or less in 4 of those series. And the series in India 2012.

Pietersen averages 47. And is a game changer.

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Post by kingraf on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:50 pm

If two players have a similar average... I tend to rate the opener as the superior player - KP and Cook have very similar records, so it shouldn't serve as a shocker if I say I think Cook is the better player. In any case, KP is in wretched form, and it bores me to no end when discarded players get beatified to the extent where any disaster could have been salvaged had they just been there.

MfC - Quite right, a balance does need to be struck, (if of course England really choose to dangle a carrot), but 350 in the fourth innings is never a simple task.
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Post by Nachos Jones on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:55 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
Cook's average is boosted by two fluke series. Ashes 2010/11, in 5 Ashes series he's averaged 28 or less in 4 of those series. And the series in India 2012.

Pietersen averages 47. And is a game changer.
 
You could also argue that Cook has been a game changer in the past as well due to some of the amazing scores he has got... KP was a game changer alright but not always in the good way, he got out to silly shots when it wasn't required and also changed games so please don't forget that.
 
Averages over careers tell the stories better than individual inning's or series and currently there is very little between then.
 
Alastair Cook has 25 ton's with 35 50's.
KP has 23 ton's with 35 50's
 
Both have similar amounts of test runs (KP has around 80 more I think) and test averages so I fail to see how Cook can be seen as much hyped and KP lauded...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 3:13 pm

Oh England its never simple is it
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Post by Nachos Jones on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 3:15 pm

Unbelievable.

Only England can make things this difficult.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 3:21 pm

England on the mat...
all talks of declaration gone out of the window......defensive Eng holding on to their dear life and fighting for a draw
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Post by alfie on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:00 pm

See this is why I rarely come on here with detailed predictions about when declarations should be made , etc ( says he smugly) : cricket has a knack of confounding expectations...

And KP f ? They are hardly "playing for a draw". They are struggling to get this innings back on track - as you do , when you lose five early wickets !
If a partnership develops , you'll see the scoring rate kick off again. If it doesn't , the draw will be out of the question anyway : somebody will win this Test Match if they get bowled out tonight.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:15 pm

alfie wrote:

And KP f ?  They are hardly "playing for a draw".  They are struggling to get this innings back on track - as you do , when you lose five early wickets !

How said "playing for a draw"
my words were "fighting for a draw"...and I see belief to win it from here is gone.

I think the selectors or EBC or whoever calls shots....should swallow pride and recall Swann and KP
and send Cook to play FC cricket and find anotehr captain

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:18 pm

I don't think you can recall a man who is retired...I might be wrong, though.

And this is exactly what we want to see. England making the game exciting, whether it's this, rugby or football.

And, in all seriousness, Sri Lanka won't hold up to the pressure of the chase if the lead goes past 280, of that you can be sure.

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Post by alfie on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:21 pm

KP_fan wrote:
alfie wrote:  

And KP f ?  They are hardly "playing for a draw".  They are struggling to get this innings back on track - as you do , when you lose five early wickets !

How said "playing for a draw"
my words were "fighting for a draw"...and I see belief to win it from here is gone.

I think the selectors or EBC or whoever calls shots....should swallow pride and recall Swann and KP
and send Cook to play FC cricket and find anotehr captain


You really do live in fantasyland , don't you ? Swann ain't coming back , his body had enough , which is why he retired?
Don't expect your hero back either.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:I don't think you can recall a man who is retired...I might be wrong, though.

.

you can request them humbly........publicly and those two with big egos will oblige their beleaguered team...they would love the attention that comes with it
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:24 pm

Call up the retired swann?

I say we go one better and bring Jim Laker back to life!
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:25 pm

Duty281 wrote:

And, in all seriousness, Sri Lanka won't hold up to the pressure of the chase if the lead goes past 280, of that you can be sure.

you may be quite right there.
and so Cook should declare with the lead past 280......will give him the moral boost also.
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:26 pm

Graeme Swann has been retired from all cricket since Christmas, Kevin Pietersen will have nothing more to do with England as he can't/won't work with Moores and Cook.

And please don't put Swann and Pietersen in the same bracket in terms of ego. They're night and day in comparison.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:Graeme Swann has been retired from all cricket since Christmas, Kevin Pietersen will have nothing more to do with England as he can't/won't work with Moores and Cook.


that's why I said Eng should "swallow pride" and call them back
if they can't swallow their pride....well then.......they will struggle against mediocre sides like Ind, Lanka NZ etc...
and come second vs Aus and SA a
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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:I don't think you can recall a man who is retired...I might be wrong, though.

And this is exactly what we want to see. England making the game exciting, whether it's this, rugby or football.

And, in all seriousness, Sri Lanka won't hold up to the pressure of the chase if the lead goes past 280, of that you can be sure.
Why would SL panic at a total over 280?

England's average bowling attack holds no fear factor.

There's no Mitchell Johnson, there's no Dale Steyn, there no Saeed Ajmal.

Clubbie Anderson will be meat and drink.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:34 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Graeme Swann has been retired from all cricket since Christmas, Kevin Pietersen will have nothing more to do with England as he can't/won't work with Moores and Cook.


that's why I said Eng should "swallow pride" and call them back
if they can't swallow their pride....well then.......they will struggle against mediocre sides like Ind, Lanka NZ etc...
and come second vs Aus and SA a

But it's a non-starter of an idea.

KP won't come back even if he's asked.
And Swann is out of practice, fitness etc.

And England won't call them back anyway!

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Post by kingraf on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:44 pm

WG Grace has apparently been itching to get a run. All you need do is scream beetlejuice three times at his gravesite
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