Eng v Lanka...first test

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 12 Jun 2014, 11:22 am

First topic message reminder :

Eng lose debutant Robson......on seemingly a seaming pitch inserted in after lanka won toss
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Post by KP_fan on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 12:31 pm

th big inconsistency now is this umpire's call business.
If half ball clipping the stump is out when umpire calls it out...then it must be out when umpire doesn't give it out but is referred.
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Post by jimbohammers on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 3:19 pm

James Vince 240 from 222 balls.  clap 

Also first to reach 1000 runs for the season (IN JUNE!)

Won't be getting a call up anytime soon though for a couple of reasons:

- He is English
- He doesn't play for Yorkshire

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 4:47 pm

Corr the bitterness Jimbo Wink

Better for Hampshire he don't get called up! I'm sure he's probably next in line, certainly ahead of James Taylor now I reckon (runs from JDizzle)
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Post by GSC on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 4:48 pm

My mums ahead of James Taylor and shes Scottish.
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Post by JDizzle on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 1:56 am

To be fair, James Taylor has been pretty good in the Championship till now. 600+ runs at 50 in 8 games is decent going, just he hasn't had the big, eye-catching scores that others have. So, wrongly in my opinion, Vince probably is ahead of him.

He just has to wait until his biennial ODI vs Ireland to prove himself. And if he gets no runs in that game, then it is back to Notts for another two years.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 5:02 pm

And poor old Taylor isn't even friends with KP!.

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Post by andyi on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 1:03 pm

KP_fan wrote:
kingraf wrote:No one wants to speak about it... but could Sangakarra be the best since Bradman?

one measure for judgement of the greatness is the difference between home and away averages...the lower it is the better a batsman.

conversely the greater the diffrence the bigger that batsman a HTB ( H= home here)

samarweera, Sangkarra, Jayawerdene, Younis khan and Clarke  are the greatest HTBs of this generation....is what i recall from an excercise done using this measure

secondly that Bradman was the greatest is also debatable.......he was a super HTB and single team + a few minnows basher


REALLY?


He averages 53.82 away from Sri Lanka. That's not too shoddy.

In Sri Lanka: 6138 runs @ 63.27 21 hundreds.
Away from Sri Lanka: 5221 runs @ 53.82 15 hundreds.

HTB my arse  Very Happy 

I imagine you'll be along to change your own parameters.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 1:08 pm

andyi wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
kingraf wrote:No one wants to speak about it... but could Sangakarra be the best since Bradman?

one measure for judgement of the greatness is the difference between home and away averages...the lower it is the better a batsman.

conversely the greater the diffrence the bigger that batsman a HTB ( H= home here)

samarweera, Sangkarra, Jayawerdene, Younis khan and Clarke  are the greatest HTBs of this generation....is what i recall from an excercise done using this measure

secondly that Bradman was the greatest is also debatable.......he was a super HTB and single team + a few minnows basher


REALLY?


He averages 53.82 away from Sri Lanka.  That's not too shoddy.

.
please remove the averages in India and BD if any from away and add them to Home conditions for a fair indication of his HTB-ness or othrwise
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Post by andyi on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 1:10 pm

KP_fan wrote:
andyi wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
kingraf wrote:No one wants to speak about it... but could Sangakarra be the best since Bradman?

samarweera, Sangkarra, Jayawerdene, Younis khan and Clarke  are the greatest HTBs of this generation....is what i recall from an excercise done using this measure



REALLY?


He averages 53.82 away from Sri Lanka.  That's not too shoddy.

HTB my arse Very Happy

I imagine you'll be along to change your own parameters.

.
please remove the averages in India and BD if any from away and add them to Home conditions for a fair indication of his HTB-ness or othrwise

You really are Priceless  Yahoo 

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 1:37 pm

......BD are his home conditions

he average 78 in 6 matches with a triple century against BD in BD...and if you discount those he has a 13 to 15 point average difference

compare that to Kallis, tendulkar, Dravid....and they all have a near equal home and away or favorable away average.

Michael Clarke though has nearly a 20 point average difference

all those jumping smilies notwithstanding...the point on HTB-ness of Sangkarra is quite clear compared to the other examples listed here who are his contemporaries and in the 50+ average club
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Post by andyi on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 1:45 pm

Your really are a colossal pedant.

You accused him of being a HOME track bully.
When proved wrong you then accuse him of being a SUB-CONTINENT bully.  

THAT IS NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL.

The irony is that when you include the India and BD games as home it makes virtually no difference.

His Average in SL/IND/BD is:  62.27
Everywhere else its: 52.90

So the gap is 9.37.   Previously it was 9.45.

Feel free to keep on changing the rules until you can prove hes just a HTB bully.

The rest of us will just admire him for being the class player he is.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 1:59 pm

further
Younis Khan is about 12 to13  point difference
Jayawerdene is 20+ difference
Chanderpaul is also a 13 to 15 point difference

so within the contemporaries with similar averages this breakdown shows who are the men and who are the boys and and who are the tallest among the men

for consistency sake.....only in BD removed for all the players in discussion
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Post by andyi on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 2:03 pm

KP_fan wrote:......BD are his home conditions

compare that to Kallis, tendulkar, Dravid....and they all have a near equal home and away or favorable away average.


Yes they do. Because their home average is lower. You can't criticise a batsman for having a greater home/away differential because he averages the same away and a lot more at home than players you say are better. How is that fair or sensible.

If Sanga was averaging 40 away you'd have a point but he isn't.

Batsmen: Home Avge Away Avge
Tendulkar 52.67 54.74
Kallis 56.73 53.91
Sanga 63.27 53.82
Dravid 51.35 53.03


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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 2:10 pm

andyi wrote:
KP_fan wrote:......BD are his home conditions

compare that to Kallis, tendulkar, Dravid....and they all have a near equal home and away or favorable away average.


Yes they do. Because their home average is lower. You can't criticise a batsman for having a greater home/away differential because he averages the same away and a lot more at home than players you say are better. How is that fair or sensible.  

If Sanga was averaging 40 away you'd have a point but he isn't.

Batsmen:          Home Avge        Away Avge
Tendulkar             52.67                54.74
Kallis                    56.73                53.91
Sanga                  63.27                53.82
Dravid                  51.35                53.03


althouhg you have dissected the stats in a way to give a 2 to 3 point advantage to Sangkarra
YET those numbers in blue and bold do prove the point I made
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Post by andyi on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 2:21 pm

KP_fan wrote:
andyi wrote:
KP_fan wrote:......BD are his home conditions

compare that to Kallis, tendulkar, Dravid....and they all have a near equal home and away or favorable away average.


Yes they do. Because their home average is lower. You can't criticise a batsman for having a greater home/away differential because he averages the same away and a lot more at home than players you say are better. How is that fair or sensible.  

If Sanga was averaging 40 away you'd have a point but he isn't.

Batsmen:          Home Avge        Away Avge
Tendulkar             52.67                54.74
Kallis                    56.73                53.91
Sanga                  63.27                53.82
Dravid                  51.35                53.03


althouhg you have dissected the stats in a way to give a 2 to 3 point advantage to Sangkarra
YET those numbers in blue and bold do prove the point I made

Thankyou for finally proving to all and sundry, you are, as stated previously just a massive PEDANT.  I didn't dissect any numbers. Those are THE numbers, end of.

You make an accusation and hide behind stats.
When those stats are shown to disprove your theory you adjust them.
When those adjusted stats are then shown to disprove your theory again, you mention a load of players who were never in the discussion.
Finally when confronted with the Truth, you try to spin it to suit your argument (you should work in Politics)

I'm sorry, that's Bollox my friend and your not getting away with it.  So to quote "those numbers in blue and bold do prove the point I made"

SO

Player A averages  80 at home and 60 away.
Player B averages 55 at home and 56 away.

By your f**ked up logic Player B is the better player!

Okay. We'll agree to differ  Very Happy

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 2:30 pm

you have made your point and I have made my point....it's not just between you and me...there are dozens more who read and are intelligent enough to draw their own inferences from the discussion
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 2:45 pm

You're right andyi.

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