Minus Flower, Cook is EXPOSED

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Post by KP_fan on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 12:48 pm

Cook was a "Remote control" in the hands of Flower.
and while Flower was anything from Defensive to Diabolical to spin-doctor...he was not stupid.

He used his remote control captain well to get good results from the team until his ideas became too controlling, his strategies too stale and the Aussies broke him and his "remote control" down with an assault of words and physically brutal cricket.

Although Flower" End of Life " was recognized, and he was fired, overtly KP was chosen the convenient. cause of the debacle and punished to usher a new era.....
Many ignored and most did not realize that the "remote controll" was useless when not in the hands of a clever master.

Now though the master-less remote, the headless chicken is getting exposed.
He talks loud but largely irrelevant.
He acts still in the shadow of unhealed wounds from the Ashes hammering.

How long will they carry him ?
If they relive him of captaincy they might save th the batsman Cook that still has some life left in him.
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Post by VTR on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 1:15 pm

Ok, we get it!

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Post by GSC on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 1:17 pm

Someone might get the idea you dislike Cook at this rate KPF Wink
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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 2:00 pm

I don't much like Cook as a captain but articles like this are so outlandish that that they only weaken the reasonable concerns some of us might have. Thanks a bunch, KP_f.

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Post by liverbnz on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 2:10 pm

guildfordbat wrote:I don't much like Cook as a captain but articles like this are so outlandish that that they only weaken the reasonable concerns some of us might have. Thanks a bunch, KP_f.

Yep, the same as that other comedian that goes on and on about Anderson. I'm not sure if it's ignorance or stupidity but I can't quite fathom how neither can grasp that their points, despite having some validity, are devalued by their exaggerrated and ridiculous delivery.

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Post by KP_fan on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 2:28 pm

guildfordbat wrote:I don't much like Cook as a captain but articles like this are so outlandish that that they only weaken the reasonable concerns some of us might have. Thanks a bunch, KP_f.

actually I do not dislike Cook. I like him on the contrary, his resolve, resolute batting when in Indian won me over.

But I have to say it now as I see it. His plight is pitiful rendered by circumstances outside his control.

those who can change things and must relieve him lest he falls into a Trott like traumatic situation...and give us the resolute batsman that is still left in him somewhere that can be revived.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 2:43 pm

KP_fan wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:I don't much like Cook as a captain but articles like this are so outlandish that that they only weaken the reasonable concerns some of us might have. Thanks a bunch, KP_f.

actually I do not dislike Cook. I like him on the contrary, his resolve, resolute batting when in Indian won me over.

But I have to say it now as I see it. His plight is pitiful rendered by circumstances outside his control.

those who can change things and must relieve him lest he falls into a Trott like traumatic situation...and give us the resolute batsman that is still left in him somewhere that can be revived.


Of course there is value in saying it as you see it, but it gets tiresome to the reader to have to read it day in day out.

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Post by Gerry SA on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 2:48 pm

liverbnz wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:I don't much like Cook as a captain but articles like this are so outlandish that that they only weaken the reasonable concerns some of us might have. Thanks a bunch, KP_f.

Yep, the same as that other comedian that goes on and on about Anderson. I'm not sure if it's ignorance or stupidity but I can't quite fathom how neither can grasp that their points, despite having some validity, are devalued by their exaggerrated and ridiculous delivery.
I've never made a statement which isn't correct.

However I like to put my own spin on my comments.


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Post by VTR on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 3:27 pm

So Anderson being a club bowler is a correct statement  picard 

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 3:34 pm

VTR wrote:So Anderson being a club bowler is a correct statement  picard 

No, it was at BEST, Anderson is a club bowler!

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Post by Gerry SA on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 3:38 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
VTR wrote:So Anderson being a club bowler is a correct statement  picard 

No, it was at BEST, Anderson is a club bowler!
Spot on.

Anderson is a lion at home. And a mouse away from home.

I've played with many a home town bully. Anderson's in that bracket.

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Post by KP_fan on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 7:18 pm

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:I don't much like Cook as a captain but articles like this are so outlandish that that they only weaken the reasonable concerns some of us might have. Thanks a bunch, KP_f.

actually I do not dislike Cook. I like him on the contrary, his resolve, resolute batting when in Indian won me over.

But I have to say it now as I see it. His plight is pitiful rendered by circumstances outside his control.

those who can change things and must relieve him lest he falls into a Trott like traumatic situation...and give us the resolute batsman that is still left in him somewhere that can be revived.


Of course there is value in saying it as you see it, but it gets tiresome to the reader to have to read it day in day out.

yes truth if too bitter can be tiresome to listen

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 5:42 pm

Boycott, Warne, Strauss, vaughan and even Botham are talking about not only his batting but captaincy also.....
They are all begining to see what's the subject matter of this thread......Cook's "cluelessness" is getting exposed to even the slowest observers

here is Botham in Telegraph...

The other issue he must do something about is his captaincy.

He must go for the jugular. He could have done so this time, but he still needs to take a leap of faith to become a truly positive captain.

Perhaps he was a little unsure of where this new look team lay in terms of quality and that is why he didn’t declare earlier than he did.

But he must believe in their ability and back them to fulfil whatever he asks of them, because we’ve already seen that the likes of Chris Jordan, Joe Root and Gary Ballance have plenty of talent. Let’s use it to win matches.

I didn’t like the defensive field placings on the fourth morning to Angelo Mathews and England should have bowled again that evening.

I’ve heard his explanation about why he didn’t declare earlier and stick the Sri Lankans in for half an hour or so on the fourth evening, but I disagree with how they went about things.




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Post by Mat on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 11:52 pm

To be fair, Botham ALWAYS disagrees with when England declare. If that last ball had carried to Jordan in the slips, he'd be going on about how it was a great declaration. And Warne's view can be discounted because I'm pretty sure Cook must have offended him in a former life, because he has a pop whenever possible. In fact, I'm pretty sure Warne is actually kp_f Wink

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 8:14 am

Mat wrote:To be fair, Botham ALWAYS disagrees with when England declare. If that last ball had carried to Jordan in the slips, he'd be going on about how it was a great declaration. And Warne's view can be discounted because I'm pretty sure Cook must have offended him in a former life, because he has a pop whenever possible. In fact, I'm pretty sure Warne is actually kp_f Wink

Warne and I......we eliminated Strauss and Flower and and now after Cook's head...and through one of our gang members i.e KP we created the unrest in the dressing room...and through other accomplices we targeted and broke down Trott....Prior has also been half elminated and hanging by a thread.
All threats to next Ashes will be cleaned up until the next Ashes comes.

Actually I should not "We-phrase" my words above but rather I since Warne and I are one...and sometimes KP also uses this account  kiss 
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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 8:43 am

Mat wrote:To be fair, Botham ALWAYS disagrees with when England declare. If that last ball had carried to Jordan in the slips, he'd be going on about how it was a great declaration. And Warne's view can be discounted because I'm pretty sure Cook must have offended him in a former life, because he has a pop whenever possible. In fact, I'm pretty sure Warne is actually kp_f Wink

Being one himself, I suppose Botham does know what to look for in a poor Test captain.

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Post by alfie on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 11:16 am

Indeed. Using Botham as an authority in criticizing Cook's captaincy rather suggests KP_f was not watching the game around 1980 , when the future Sir Ian demonstrated that for all his skills as a cricketer he was just not cut out for leadership ...I forget which commentator it was who summed up Botham's credentials quite early on : as a man who would have bravely and cheerfully led the The Charge of the Light Brigade...but who would probably also have been daft enough to have ordered it...
Judging by some of his comments from behind the microphone , very little has changed.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 2:04 pm

Astonishing comments from Cook today about criticism from Warne. KPF's thread makes a lot more sense now. Cook is close to a complete breakdown.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 2:19 pm

here is what BBC has reported......make of it what you will......he is pleading and begging someone ( like ECB) to ban "Cook Criticism"

We think ( Warne and I...which is basically me since we are same Smile ] that one more hit will shatter him.
God forbid if he messes up in Headingley...he will be eaten up  Sad 

bbc wrote:Cook was criticised for being too cautious during the 5-0 Ashes whitewash by Australia, with Shane Warne suggesting the same trait cost England victory against Sri Lanka on Monday.
"Something needs to be done because for three years as England captain I have been criticised," Cook told the BBC.
Asked if the criticism was personal, he said: "I think it is, yes."
Cook will lead England in the second Test against Sri Lanka at Headingley, starting on Friday.
In a pre-match interview with BBC cricket correspondent Jonathan Agnew, he added: "I find it quite hard to take to be honest. Support and positivity is what this England team needs."
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Post by msp83 on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 4:09 pm

Truly idiotic from Cook!.

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Post by msp83 on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 4:11 pm

So what should be done now? What do you want Alastair Cri Baby? Ban Warne from the Sky Boxes?
Perhaps the ECB chief should consult his dear old Friend Mr. Srinivasan!.

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Post by JDizzle on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 5:19 pm

Oh dear. I actually sort of agree that some of the criticism of Cook has been way over the top and Warne does spout some rubbish, but that's an awful way to deal with it from him. Just keep quiet and go out and win games of cricket to get respect back.

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 5:56 pm

KP_fan wrote:here is what BBC has reported......make of it what you will......he is pleading and begging someone ( like ECB) to ban "Cook Criticism"

We think ( Warne and I...which is basically me since we are same Smile ] that one more hit will shatter him.
God forbid if he messes up in Headingley...he will be eaten up  Sad 

bbc wrote:Cook was criticised for being too cautious during the 5-0 Ashes whitewash by Australia, with Shane Warne suggesting the same trait cost England victory against Sri Lanka on Monday.
"Something needs to be done because for three years as England captain I have been criticised," Cook told the BBC.
Asked if the criticism was personal, he said: "I think it is, yes."
Cook will lead England in the second Test against Sri Lanka at Headingley, starting on Friday.
In a pre-match interview with BBC cricket correspondent Jonathan Agnew, he added: "I find it quite hard to take to be honest. Support and positivity is what this England team needs."

I saw similar on cricinfo. To be honest, Cook really is coming across as quite a cry baby at the moment. The fact is that as England captain he will come under scrutiny, and that won't always be positive. As much as he may feel that the England team needs support, he has no reason to expect it as a right. Particularly from a foreign commentator.

I think both Cook and England would benefit from a change of captain, particularly in limited overs (where I don't think Cook is even worth his place), and possibly in tests too.

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Post by liverbnz on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 6:01 pm

Not dealing with the pressure at all well is Cook.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 6:32 pm

msp83 wrote:Truly idiotic from Cook!.

anger and ridicule are not apt as emotions to display for Cook.....but rather pity and sympathy is what he needs.

Else he might fall soon by "Trott disease"
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Post by msp83 on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 7:38 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:Truly idiotic from Cook!.

anger and ridicule are not apt as emotions to display for Cook.....but rather pity and sympathy is what he needs.

Else he might fall soon by "Trott disease"
Or may be he'll get us all banned from posting here. Ridiculous!.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 8:17 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10912981/Alastair-Cook-is-feeling-the-strain-of-England-captaincy-sometimes-you-must-rely-on-outside-help.html

a good article by Vaughan...on Cook as an opener and Captain.

Especially refreshing and by his own admission "un-english" are his thoughts on Hales.
that's how Warner, Sehwag , jadeja, and many other have made to test cricket via T20 and / or ODIs
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Post by msp83 on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 8:57 pm

Something has to be done about Vaughan!.

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Post by kingraf on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 9:00 pm

#CaptainCook

Honestly, just what did he do to you guys? You don't lose a series 5-0 because of conservative captaincy. Especially when your batting lineup hasn't crossed 400 in 27 innings.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 9:06 pm

Eng going down to Uruguay.....40 minutes left for eng to pull 1 back
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Post by alfie on Fri 20 Jun 2014, 1:35 am

I have made no secret of my belief that criticism of Cook has gone way OTT ; and I agree that a lot of it seems to be personal (bitter Pietersen fans who seem to hold him responsible for their hero's departure prominent in that area)
; but it was most unwise of Cook to go on public record complaining about it.
Won't do him any good : and among other things will give ammunition to the Australians (masters of psychological warfare) for next year. If he lasts that long ...regardless of results , if he is feeling the pressure to this degree he may well choose to step down from the job himself. Which would be a pity , I think ...he is certainly not The Second Mike Brearley , but I thought his handling of the attack on the last day at Lord's demonstrated a lot more imagination than previous efforts , and suggested he is learning on the job, and might in time become pretty good at it. Even that he might be about to blossom , now he is no longer deferring to Flower  Smile 

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Post by ShankyCricket on Fri 20 Jun 2014, 7:42 am

Hales has been doing well this year in FC cricket too. Won't have him in the Test side just yet but Cook getting picked ahead of him and Vince in ODIs is a f**king joke.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Fri 20 Jun 2014, 9:55 am

I think this is an excellent article on Alastair Cook the batsman and pretty much sums up what I've always felt about him. He has always been a very inconsistent batsman... a career filled with awe-inspiring highs and despairing lows. And he feasts on weak bowling attacks... http://cricketingview.blogspot.in/2014/06/alastair-cooks-safety-blanket.html

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Post by GSC on Fri 20 Jun 2014, 11:01 am

I think Cook has a point to an extent, with Flower gone, hes become the figurehead of the anti KP side in the eyes of some, and while I don't think its personal, certainly Warnes friendship with KP skews his opinion in my view. Shouldn't have really given it the time of day though, best way to deal with it is to score runs.
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Post by msp83 on Fri 20 Jun 2014, 11:15 am

We are yet to hear a convincing case for finishing KP off in international cricket, so naturally there will be questions asked of the ECB and Cook. But the criticism of Cook's style of captaincy is something that predates the sacking of Pietersen. Criticism is something that professional sports persons are to expect. Now if you want to do something about it, all that you can do is to perform on the field and then filter out what needs to be rejected and come across as convincing in your explanations. Acting like a spoiled little cri baby is nothing but absolutely ridiculous, and you can't blame Pietersen for Cook's pathetic behavior and excuse him on the basis of that.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Fri 20 Jun 2014, 11:22 am

KP_fan wrote:Cook was a "Remote control" in the hands of Flower.
and while Flower was anything from Defensive to Diabolical to spin-doctor...he was not stupid.

He used his remote control captain well to get good results from the team until his ideas became too controlling, his strategies too stale and the Aussies broke him and his "remote control" down with an assault of words and physically brutal cricket.

Although Flower" End of Life " was recognized, and he was fired, overtly KP was chosen the convenient. cause of the debacle and punished to usher a new era.....
Many ignored and most did not realize that the "remote controll" was useless when not in the hands of a clever master.

Now though the master-less remote, the headless chicken is getting exposed.
He talks loud but largely irrelevant.
He acts still in the shadow of unhealed wounds from the Ashes hammering.

How long will they carry him ?
If they relive him of captaincy they might save th the batsman Cook that still has some life left in him.

Sorry mate!! But what ever mentioned here should and must be a personal thought. A captain can push the team with his tactics and mental support and that what cook is doing. If we consider the last test match, well I consider fate saved SL.
Regarding the remote-controlled issue, well coach surely have a punch on the opinion of others but ya Cook and his team mates have performed well and they will surely do in the upcoming test.
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 23 Jun 2014, 7:15 pm

^ a day, this day a "case in point" of the thread  Shocked 
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Post by Wellington on Mon 23 Jun 2014, 8:05 pm

I have never been a fan of captain Cook. I believe the ECB have tried to manufacture Cook into the captaincy however he just doesn't seem to have the intuition or imagination for the role. I always had the feeling that Andy Flower was the real England captain relaying constant messages and strategies through the twelfth man.
Today was the final straw, the field settings were either too negative or bizarre. His ideas were 10 - 15 overs too late.
I think Cook is a quality batsman mind as his cricinfo stats will prove, but not a captain for me.
Now the next problem is who next? For me it's either Broad or Anderson.

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Post by liverbnz on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 9:00 am

It wouldn't surprise me to see Anderson put out to pasture pretty soon.

When Duncan Fletcher came in he ridded the team of those scarred by continual loses and those just past their best. Moores/Flower did the same after the Ashes debacle in 2006/07 - G Jones, Hoggard, Harmison, Vaughan and Ashely Giles were all weeded out with a new younger, hungrier and non-scarred breed ushered in.

I'd day Prior and Anderson are next on the chopping block along with Cook's captaincy. Ian Bell is another is not living up to reputation but will probably be saved by the fact he's got a long queue ahead of him.

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Post by alfie on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 12:05 pm

liverbnz wrote:It wouldn't surprise me to see Anderson put out to pasture pretty soon.

When Duncan Fletcher came in he ridded the team of those scarred by continual loses and those just past their best. Moores/Flower did the same after the Ashes debacle in 2006/07 - G Jones, Hoggard, Harmison, Vaughan and Ashely Giles were all weeded out with a new younger, hungrier and non-scarred breed ushered in.

I'd day Prior and Anderson are next on the chopping block along with Cook's captaincy. Ian Bell is another is not living up to reputation but will probably be saved by the fact he's got a long queue ahead of him.

Would surprise me. Think they've done enough culling for now ; and Anderson is very much one of the leaders , even if he isn't a vice captain or anything. Many of the better moves on the field seem to be his ideas.
Plus although he wasn't at his best yesterday he was still more effective than anyone else bar Plunkett , and I think they need him.
He might actually make a decent interim captain , though fast bowler captains are not usually a great idea , so I doubt they will go that way.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 12:15 pm

Can't see Anderson being pushed out he door, unless he wants to go. He never bowled well yesterday, but still England's top wicket taker at the best average and economy in the series.

Prior is a different kettle of fish. His batting so far has been ok, but his keeping by his own standards has been very poor. Seems to me he is still in a fragile state of mind and I would not be surprised to see a couple of low scores on the bounce, bring about the end for him.

Hope not though.

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Post by alfie on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 12:51 pm

Yeah , not sure what to make of Prior. Apart from that awful drop on the first day he has missed a few byes , not all of which could be blamed on wild bowling or awkward bounce.
I don't think he is in any immediate danger ; but he'd want to have a good series against India or there will be pressure to turn to a younger man going forward. Which is fair enough ; there should be pressure to perform if you want to hold down a spot in the Test team.

Any theory on what was wrong with Anderson yesterday ? When he got his length right he looked promising , but bowled too many short , and uncharacteristically wide - and he had a horrible spell in the afternoon which may have been largely down to tiredness. Heard a suggestion he had a bit of a niggle ; but he kept coming back so not sure if that is right. England never look as effective in the field when Jimmy is off form.

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Post by liverbnz on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 2:39 pm

Anderson did look injured yesterday not helped by bowling long spells at a time.

Also, I wasn't saying Anderson was finished as a bowler. Far from it. Nor was I saying that it will be immediate. I just expect a phasing out approach within the next year or so. It's just sometimes you need to start afresh. Just ask Hoggard, Harmison or Thorpe.

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Post by Gregers on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 9:23 pm

Totally agree that cook is falling apart, Prior has never been that good a keeper but as a number 7 provides good balance in the side

On a side note can you stop using ellipsis KP_fan!

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Post by KP_fan on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 9:49 pm

Gregers wrote:  
On a side note can you stop using ellipsis KP_fan!

sorry sir...i forgot....i need you approval on the use of punctuation....or other forms
or is that all...that could find worth objecting...in this post  laughing 
Sorry.....I broke your rule again Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Post by KP_fan on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 9:52 pm

anderson announces " I will not resign"
well.....England's bad....India won't mind
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Post by Gregers on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 10:09 pm

Seriously does it not annoy you?

Anyways moving on, Cook needs to drop the captaincy but it will look like an admission of failure. Moeen to move up to 3, where he has batted all his life seams like the simple answer. Ballance's technique is woeful for a test number 3, maybe play him at 6 and see if it improves.

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Post by gboycottnut1 on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 10:50 pm

One of the problems England still have is that on wickets which are flat and favour the batting side, England don't have any bowlers with true express pace (like a Mitchell Johnson or a Patrick Cummins or a James Pattinson) who can easily bowl teams out by defeating batsmen through the air with sheer pace. Perhaps it is time for the likes of Jimmy Anderson to move on as he just doesn't have the pace required to do well on such flat wickets.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 11:14 pm

On the subject of Prior his keeping has been club standard this test.

People moaned about Bairstow and how he is an awful keeper, but in the first innings of this test Prior conceded more byes than Bairstow did in the whole of his two tests in Australia. Not even factoring in the horrific drop that woeful!!

As for his batting, a decent knock at Lords (but he's had some serious DRS luck), he has been bounced out twice on dead flat pitches by Sri Lankan dobblers. Hardly bodes well does it

Get Buttler in, he can't do any worse and will be better for the experience
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Post by kingraf on Tue 24 Jun 2014, 11:36 pm

Captain Cook!!

Look, a captain is, and always will be, confined to the limits of his team... It's not even 12 months ago Clarke became the first Aussie captain in 30 years to come back from the Ashes without a single win.

England don't miss KP... and they aren't going to. Trott? Yes. Swann? Definitely... but they don't miss a guy good for a maximum of one century a series (he never scored more in any series... ever, in the history of his career, since the beginning of time)- no team does... those are called luxuries. You've got serious structural problems if you're trying to replace/fix the Ferrari before you pay the mortgage. I'd go on, but I'm rather drunk and have a day at the Grand beach in Mauritius ahead of me - night all... Here's to a decent Indian series
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