'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK

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Post by Derbymanc on Fri 27 Jun 2014, 11:08 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/27/britain-eu-no-evidence-civitas-nick-clegg_n_5536083.html

Would like to see further research into this as it shows we're not as reliant on the EU as we're led to believe.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 27 Jun 2014, 11:19 am

Of course we're not as reliant on the EU as the left would have you believe.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/david-cameron-warns-uk-could-leave-eu-if-jeanclaude-juncker-takes-top-job-9566394.html

Now I hope Her Majesty's First Minister has the bottle to follow through on his words...history shows us he probably won't, however.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:19 pm

Plenty to suggest being out would result in foreign investment leaving the UK though....

CBI suggest it will be a disaster If No wins in 2017..........and I agree....

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:27 pm

They also said, a while ago now, that we needed to join the Euro.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/500231.stm

Let's just ignore them again!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:40 pm

At your peril...Duty.....

Don't want to see businesses leaving and hard working Brits with families scraping by on the Universal credit......

If it ever comes in............That's another bollox drop..

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:44 pm

Quite right, we need to see businesses thriving in this country, to let us prosper once again as a nation.

That's another reason to vote Tory...Whistle

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:45 pm

Thought you were uKIP

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:49 pm

Get us out of Europe ASAP, stop sending money abroad for Foreign aid and start sorting the mess out that we have in this country.

Forget solely blaming the immigrants/benefits/disabled. The country's in a massive mess that needs sorting out proper.

Tell the EU we'll stick with them if we get control of our borders back (we choose who can come in,) and we'll stick to our own laws.

Also it's a massive fallacy that business's will up and leave. If they're still making money they don't care if your in the EU or the Care Bears deserve their own country fan club.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:50 pm

Well it varies, you know, as one gets older, Truss.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:55 pm

Duty281 wrote:Well it varies, you know, as one gets older, Truss.

Dear oh dear...........What will you be next week...........

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 2:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Well it varies, you know, as one gets older, Truss.

Dear oh dear...........What will you be next week...........
Oh I always waver between Tory and UKIP. I'm a Thatcherite at heart; a right-wing liberal.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 3:01 pm

Thatcher was a right wing liberal..

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 3:04 pm

New right and neo-liberal.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 3:09 pm

Liberal in an economic sense to an extent..........But authoritarian in every other...

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 3:22 pm

I can't see this thread ending well...

One should also look at whose interests the people doing this study are more aligned with...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ZZJXw4MTA

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 3:44 pm

We had a cracking thread on stuff like this on the local/euro election thread MFC. As long as everyone keeps it calm and respects the other poster then we can have a good debate and we all learn a bit.

Thanks to the MODS for giving us the rope and allowing the discussion to flourish again.

Back to the topic. I'm not the greatest fan of studies, polls especially when a certain side funds them as politics has become so shrouded in spin that we can't trust any of them anymore.


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Post by Duty281 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 5:58 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2676449/Brussels-backroom-stitch-sees-German-socialist-lost-European-elections-appointed-MEP-president-backing-Jean-Claude-Juncker-row-Cameron.html

There's only one Nigel Farage...

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Post by kingraf on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 8:36 pm

Did CS get banned again?
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Post by Duty281 on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 8:49 pm

kingraf wrote:Did CS get banned again?

Yep!

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Post by kingraf on Tue 01 Jul 2014, 9:34 pm

I told him that's what would happen.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 9:14 am

Haha really??!

For what?

I got some really cute drunken PM's from him last Friday, thought it was very sweet laughing

Something along the lines of "I gave you a second chance, but you were a big fat meany-pants to me and it upset me so now I've no choice but to block you again as I can't take it, so please don't message me and respond to me on here again".

Followed up 5 minutes later by "I'm blocking you now...." as if I was going to have some sudden bout of remorse and desperately trying contacting him to beg for forgiveness. Laugh

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 9:38 am

Probably things like that Toppy, the time before he went around finding a load of information about GSC and then seemed to get really upset when GSC didn't care as he wasn't hiding it. (It then got a bit creepy to be fair.)

Think he was doing the same with Duty the other day, (I'm sure at one point he accused him of being a girl, then only 17, then he wasn't gay) while Duty just laughed.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 9:38 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Duty is not really gay it is just a false personna he created. Last year he pretended he was a girl so I wouldn't take his word for it that he is gay or that he is 18.


He got rather fixated on this idea.

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 12:28 pm

You might not like the guy (Farage, not youtube millionaire CS) but he knows how to answer his critics

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/02/nigel-farage-european-parliament-speech_n_5550590.html

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 12:51 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:Duty is not really gay it is just a false personna he created. Last year he pretended he was a girl so I wouldn't take his word for it that he is gay or that he is 18.


He got rather fixated on this idea.

Think that's classic CS confusion.

From memory, and where I think this came from, is that you were referred to in feminine form by one of the Founders when notfying us that you'd been put on a temporary ban. Nothing derogatory, just something like using 'she' or 'her', which everyone latched on to.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 12:54 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:Duty is not really gay it is just a false personna he created. Last year he pretended he was a girl so I wouldn't take his word for it that he is gay or that he is 18.


He got rather fixated on this idea.

Think that's classic CS confusion.

From memory, and where I think this came from, is that you were referred to in feminine form by one of the Founders when notfying us that you'd been put on a temporary ban.  Nothing derogatory, just something like using 'she' or 'her', which everyone latched on to.

Oh yes, I remember that. Laugh

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 12:55 pm

3.5 million of British jobs are dependent on being in the EU (European institute South Bank study)..

If Britain has a problem with trading WTF cares ??............If the biggest trading bloc has a problem (Europe) everybody wants to hear...

EU laws have been brought in to help with the rights of the employee......Certain discriminations from the past are addressed like ageism, sexism, Working hours......

Do we really want a right wing government which has already screwed over the Unions and made them redundant in charge of all this......No thanks...

I like people to have rights..

Also factor in Cheaper travel, cheaper goods through competition etc...and other consumer advantages of being in....

Plus the fact you are a little p**s ant island..

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:29 pm

Oooh Trussy's on one today.

Completely disagree with any argument that says we're better off in the EU than out of it. Other countries have shown you don't have to be a part of it to be run quite well.

As it stands we're paying money into the EU that would be better off kept at home and at the same time being told what we can and can't do as well as having our borders wide open with no say on who comes and goes.

The Unions while helpful for some also cause a hell of a lot of problems and don't think for one minute that a lot of them aren't out for themselves (RMT is one I particularly despise having been a member)

People would still have rights, it's one of them ridiculous scaremongering statements made by people who should know better, otherwise there'd still be wide spread slavery and the kids would be off down the mineshaft/matchstick factory instead of off to work.

I'd rather be a p*ss ant Island than a country full of people who when they immediately leave there shores think they're suddenly better than everyone else (again, have experienced this too many times Wink

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:37 pm

You haven't rebutted any of my points...

It's not what is better for you..It's what is better for the majority.......

The majority are employees and not employers......

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:42 pm

The three million jobs statistics has been proven to be false. Only tired, pathetic, insipid politicians use it, like Clegg, for instance.

There are many advantages to being in the EU, it would be foolish to deny it, but such advantages are firmly out weighted by the very fact that Britain has to surrender her parliamentary sovereignty and control of her borders whilst she is a member.

That's why we need to be out.

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:42 pm

I completely disagree that if we left the EU we'd suddenly have millions unemployed Truss, as I said there's numerous countries that trade with the EU that aren't a part of the EU and I'm firmly of the belief that they need us more than we need them.

(Your study is by the European institue wonder what they want Wink)

If you want to look there's studies for both sides all over the net the only way we'll ever know for sure is when we leave, and we'll see how close we are to that at the GE's

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:3.5 million of British jobs are dependent on being in the EU (European institute South Bank study)..

If Britain has a problem with trading WTF cares ??............If the biggest trading bloc has a problem (Europe) everybody wants to hear...

EU laws have been brought in to help with the rights of the employee......Certain discriminations from the past are addressed like ageism, sexism, Working hours......

Do we really want a right wing government which has already screwed over the Unions and made them redundant in charge of all this......No thanks...

I like people to have rights..

Also factor in Cheaper travel, cheaper goods through competition etc...and other consumer advantages of being in....

Plus the fact you are a little p**s ant island..

1. If you think Unions are redundant (my dream) try living in London.
2. How can you say all those things are cheaper, when you can't quantify the impact of removing bureaucratic EU red tape?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:47 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You haven't rebutted any of my points...

It's not what is better for you..It's what is better for the majority.......


Great (American) economist, Adam Smith, would disagree.....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:51 pm

They are cheaper............Competition has forced down the prices..........

Unions are much less a force both here and in the States than they used to be...It's blindingly obvious..

It's partially a good thing as things got silly..(too much power corrupts).........But now it's too much the other way..

Employees with families need respect from Employers and the right not be thought of as just numbers...

Working in the sector I do I get/got to see first hand how they are treated and viewed and It's invariably negative...

European regulation in this regard is a good thing

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:55 pm

You can have competition with the EU (Wal-mart ensure Asda stays cheap Wink

Unions aren't as much a force but they made their bed by fighting over every little thing (unless of course your not a train driver, aaaaaaaargh)

Employees with families need respect from everyone, that's going to happen either way though. They talk about it in our parliament not because Europe told them too but because they know it's an issue.

Your probably working in the wrong sector Truss, a lot of business's now (big and small) are pretty good when it comes to families rights, not all of them came form the EU.

Some of the EU is okay, a lot of it isn't.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:They are cheaper............Competition has forced down the prices..........

Unions are much less a force both here and in the States than they used to be...It's blindingly obvious..

It's partially a good thing as things got silly..(too much power corrupts).........But now it's too much the other way..

Employees with families need respect from Employers and the right not be thought of as just numbers...

Working in the sector I do I get/got to see first hand how they are treated and viewed and It's invariably negative...

European regulation in this regard is a good thing

Less of a force, yes, but not redundant. And in some areas even powerful with a seriously detrimental effect on personal finances for the 99% they don't represent (continuing to use London as an example).

And re competition, it's a nice line to keep rolling out (as a free-market capitalism fan it'll find favour with me) but can you be more specific about how competition specifically due to being within the EU has driven these prices down??

Domestic travel has zero EU competition and international travel does have competition from european carriers, but not competition that would fall away if we left the EU. Lufthansa, for example, won't stop flying in/out of City airport if we left the bloc.

[in the interests of transparency I'll disclose that I'm actually in favour of staying in (a reformed) EU.]

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 1:58 pm

some of the disadvantages of being a part of the EU?

Too Many Rules and Regulations:
There are a great deal of rules and regulation, some of which don't
seem sensible. This can make the EU inefficient and excessively
bureaucratic.

Unaccountable to its Citizens:
Decisions are taken a long way from the people, making it a poor
example of democracy. People who are affected by EU decisions have
little chance to make their voices heard.

Concentration of Power:
EU institutions have too much power. They have taken away the right
of individual countries to make their own decisions about economic and
political matters.

Speed of Integration:
The EU is moving towards more and more integration at a phenomenal
rate with not enough thought or debate on the issues. The UK risks
being swept by this tide of integration without plotting and following
its own course in the interest of its own citizens.

Loss of UK Sovereignty:
Membership of the EU has led the UK to lose its sovereignty. As a
result the UK is no longer free to develop its own policies, make its
own laws, or control its own economy in response to its own needs.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:00 pm

You won't be getting a reformed EU, TopHat, with Juncker as head of the Commission. Instead, you'll be getting an EU that is more insular and bureaucratic.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:05 pm

You guys aren't seeing the bigger picture..

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:06 pm

The United States of Europe?

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:14 pm

I can see the big picture quiet clearly, Europe ruling the roost over everybody
discounting what the residents of each 'state' wants
taxing us to the hilt to pay for the countries where the Euro failed.
Taxing us again to pay the expenses and extortionate wages of MEP's not to mention our own MP's being used to try and keep the little people in check.
A raft of unemployment over Europe as those from countries with a weaker economy flock to the rest of Europe.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:22 pm

You'll be on your own and all the money you'll save.....Will be countered with loss of subsidies, Businesses relocating elsewhere, a huge benefit bill..........and more important a loss of bargaining power..........

The European countries in the EU won't care and Superpowers like the USA and China will be able to screw you rotten.....

Lyndon B Johnson..........."Always better to be inside the tent p**sing out than outside the tent p**sing in"

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:29 pm

Again Truss I completely disagree, it doesn't do these

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=470

harm

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:30 pm

Be a Tariff nightmare If you came out..

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Post by Derbymanc on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:33 pm

Nah it'll be fine Truss, There's a reason they want us to stay in and it's not due to our good looks Wink

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:37 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You'll be on your own and all the money you'll save.....Will be countered with loss of subsidies, Businesses relocating elsewhere, a huge benefit bill..........and more important a loss of bargaining power..........

What subsidies? We're net contributors.

There'll be business relocations, but in both directions. Can't estimate the net effect.

Where has this huge benefit bill come from all of a sudden?? Arguably we'll have more control over welfare payments without EU intereference (particularly ECHR).

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'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK Empty Re: 'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 2:58 pm

Just going by what the experts say......Like the CBI .......Unfortunately like with Boxing...No one knows as much as you..


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TRUSSMAN66

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'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK Empty Re: 'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK

Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 3:00 pm

Good response... Rolling Eyes

What was that you said to someone earlier about actually re-butting points??

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'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK Empty Re: 'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 3:01 pm

Labour going up in the all polls except LA ......

So it's probably irrelevant anyway.. thumbsup

The average is 5 so that's 2/3 for some people on here..


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'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK Empty Re: 'No Evidence' That Being In EU Brought Foreign Investment To UK

Post by Duty281 on Wed 02 Jul 2014, 3:03 pm

"Experts like the CBI"..who wanted us to join the Euro.

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