SA in Lanka

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 06 Jul 2014, 10:19 am

First topic message reminder :

Amla hits a hundred and anchors the inning....ABDV powers it in the middle and Miller packs a punch at the end to get them to a 300+

until lanka has batted we will not know if this is a good score or another "patta" sub-continental pitch

.malinga didn't do much and surpirsingly didnpüt finish his quota of 10.

interesting series with in the light of Lanka's new earned respect
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Post by Gerry SA on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 11:58 am

Mathews showing he's ready to step into Mahela FTB shoes here.

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Post by msp83 on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 12:44 pm

Gerry SA wrote:Mathews showing he's ready to step into Mahela FTB shoes here.
Must say that is a very harsh and very unfair comment, Gerry. You saw him in England getting his test highest? He's a serious fighter. Not blessed with the best of techniques, but more than makes up with his attitude and approach.
This knock is further proof for his quality.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 2:02 pm

283/9 at stumps, lead 172. I'm sure S.A. would have preferred to be a little further up at days end, but still in a good position. No one really knows how Amla captains so this is intriguing. 110 overs is probably what we'll be looking for.
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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 2:20 pm

Gerry SA wrote:23rd Test match 5 wicket bag for the phenomenal Dale Steyn.

367 Test wickets @ 22.81.

He could just be the greatest of all time.

Nah, he breaks down too much and goes missing sometimes. All fierce one moment; a complete coward the next.

You can keep him mate. Australia always has the best "all time" bowlers pretty much all of the time. You ought to be used to that by now.
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Post by kingraf on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 2:37 pm

He broke down once.
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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 2:38 pm

kingraf wrote:He broke down once.

I especially enjoyed his crying and carrying on. Total toszer if you ask me.
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Post by Gerry SA on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 2:59 pm

You Aussies make me laugh.

Until recently you where everyone's B!TCHES.

You win a couple of series and think you've become world beaters again.

Steyn dicks over all any of your fast bowlers.

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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 18 Jul 2014, 3:17 pm

Won more series than you. More runs, wickets and catches too.
Your cocky blokes are perennial chokers, cheats and losers.

We own you... and that dick Steyn too!
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Post by Biltong on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 12:22 am

Play nice Boys  warning 
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 8:11 am

Philander charged for ball tampering and pleads guilty.

aahaaa......is that why Steyn was getting the reverse ??

The last time an international player was convicted for ball tampering.....was also from SA FaF-D-P

anotehr aaahaaa
there should be a greater fine than 50% and 75% match fee of one player....that's a small price to pay to alter the course of a test match.

it should be something like awarding 200 runs to the opponent and scraping the bowling records for that inning of the culprit side for that inning

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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:36 am

Massively disappointing. More so because the ball really only reversed proper for one over, so he wasn't even doing a good job.

I agree, more harsh punishments are possibly required, but retroactive punishments only work for the first four days of a test. And even then, they work only if the player pleads guilty. You can't punish a team with 200 runs before guilt is established. What do you do in a t20, or Odi? And the scraping charge only works if it's a bowler, what happens when it's a fielder? I think banning the captain, and the player in question from the next match, or matches, is the way forward.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:41 am

Biltong wrote:Play nice Boys  warning 

See... I knew there were suspicious things going on.  Whistle 
SA should be able to give SL a hiding without going to such drastic measures.
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:50 am

kingraf wrote:Massively disappointing. More so because the ball really only reversed proper for one over, so he wasn't even doing a good job.

I agree, more harsh punishments are possibly required, but retroactive punishments only work for the first four days of a test. And even then, they work only if the player pleads guilty. You can't punish a team with 200 runs before guilt is established. What do you do in a t20, or Odi? And the scraping charge only works if it's a bowler, what happens when it's a fielder? I think banning the captain, and the player in question from the next match, or matches, is the way forward.

T20 and ODIs are masala games for instant entertainment.....and unless it's a world cup..the results are forgotten and less consequential.

in a test match if the tampering is determined on D5 and confirmed later.......the results can be altered later....the game anulled if the tampering team had won.

we have seen Olympic medals being retracted if doping tests come positive.
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:54 am

ball is turning square and that's bad news for Lanka...Duminy and Tahir will be a handful in addtion to the pace of SA

really they let SA score too many in first inning and crashed for too few....just outplayed
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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:55 am

To be honest, I don't know what, if any effect it had no proceedings. Cricinfo reports that the on field umpires saw the tampering. They would have investigated the ball a few times, and they did so twice I think. The fact that there was no ball change suggests, as I suspect, there was no discernable difference. Just another boneheaded move.
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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:02 am

I must be honest, I don't like nulling events retroactively. Understandable, and expected in doping offences, and such... but is ball tampering in that class? I put it more along the lines of diving in football. And as much as that annoys me, I don't know if games should be nulled because of such events.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:25 am

It's a major contravention of the rules, and if true, then the ICC will no doubt take it very seriously. They are getting more severe in recent years.

It's not about whether you like it or not, raf - that kind of caper simply has to be stamped out of the game otherwise there will always be the question of whether a match is/was a fair contest. Taking chunks out of the ball is worse than the tactic of throwing returns into the rough of the wicket block though... and that too needs to be eliminated from the game.
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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:44 am

He didn't take chunks. No need for a hyperbole. The ball was investigated, twice. In any case, I'm not condoning ball tampering. I'm saying that I don't like an attempt to control it by nulling matches whereby the winning side had a player found guilty. It's tough enough to market a game where there might not be a result after five days, I wouldn't want to watch one where even if there is a result, it might be retroactively scrapped. 2-2 Ashes, series, England win the decider, and are caught ball-tampering, result gets nulled, England appeal, and the result of a series is decided in a courtroom. Or a team is caught tampering on D2, ICC sticks a 200 run punishment... they appeal... what happens now? Does the ICC stick to the ban, and sort of sheepishly apologize if they prove to be wrong?

What I'm calling for are bans. You ban the player charged with tampering, then a team simply puts the twelfth man in charge of ball tampering. Ban the player, plus skipper, as in the case of an over rate, and it's suddenly a different proposition.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 11:05 am

I'll have to disagree with you there. Why not punish the whole team?

The actual perpetrator(s) are not acting alone without the knowledge of the rest of the team and if they are, then they will need to think twice. The fact that the ball was investigated twice could suggest either:

(i) the umpires wanted to see if there was further deterioration of the ball (from the first inspection) or,
(ii) that they had reasons to suspect that Philander was continuing to artificially alter the condition of the ball.

The fact that this isn't the first time this has happened and every player should well know by now that what they are doing is illegal (not as bad as doping in athletics or cycling, etc... but still a serious infringement of the Laws in this game) makes this whole controversy even worse!

If an Australian was caught doing the same thing - then yes, punish the whole team. If someone is stupid or dodgy enough to do it.

Need to get the message across because obviously some players will still try it on, or are still trying it on - as Philander is alleged to have been doing in this Test. (and if so it's not really a true Test is it?)
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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 11:14 am

The issue in banning/punishing a whole team, is that you open the game to the manipulations of bookies. It would be fix city in the lower rungs, and eventually upper echelons if 50 runs, or whatever is punished is added overnight...
Odds on on 250/3 overnight becoming 300/3 after the first over?
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 11:24 am

doping is a severe unfair advantage in atheltics.... but not in cricket.
the similar level of unfair advantage is ball tampering in criket
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 11:30 am

kingraf wrote:The issue in banning/punishing a whole team, is that you open the game to the manipulations of bookies. It would be fix city in the lower rungs, and eventually upper echelons if 50 runs, or whatever is punished is added overnight...
Odds on on 250/3 overnight becoming 300/3 after the first over?

Can't look at it that way. The ICC just need to concentrate on getting the game right. Criminal activity outside of the game is a huge issue though I agree but one can't use that as an excuse to justify continued illegal tampering with the ball.

I actually couldn't care less if they banned or severely restricted bookmaking on certain aspects of sport. It's gone beyond ridiculous now.

However, there is no way I would let that get in the way of the management of the actual game of cricket itself. If someone is stupid enough to deal with the lower rungs of the bookmakers and get caught - then tough luck. Throw them all in the same cell I say.

KP_f - not really. When you have to run in to bowl all day or hoik balls to boundaries... a little extra muscle advantage can certainly help.
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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 11:37 am

Sorry mate I disagree. You can't pretend the cricketing world is in a vacuum, fixing is a very real thing, and probably, a more prevalent issue than ball-tampering.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 11:43 am

They're both blights on the game.
Stamp both of them out, player by player; den by den.

btw, who said the cricket world is in a vacuum? Not me.
What I'm saying is that you need to take steps to control it if it's getting out of hand; and not sit back, ignore it or sweep the evil elements under the carpet.

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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 11:56 am

I'm not suggesting doing nothing, what I am saying, is that the once team punishments become a possibility, we've made some ground on one evil, to lose ground on another. Banning the skipper for a match is a big punishment on its own, and no team will risk that. Punishing a team only sort of works if said team wins. If Sri Lanka get to 330/2, on a placid pitch, the risk/reward isn't badly weighted.

Another possibility is to have the unripe look at ball at the end of every over. It doesn't take long, and is rather straightforward. just chuck the ball to the closest ump, who chucks it to the bowler.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 12:00 pm

Oh listen... I'm not going to argue with a drunk.  Smile 

(see my cure for a hangover in the other thread)
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 12:08 pm

can SA lose...after declaring......time is plenty for Lanka to get the runs 280 in 100 overs and 9 wickets in hand  Shocked Shocked Shocked 
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 12:15 pm

SA should have set them over 400 runs to chase at least. Maybe 425? They'll only need around 240 runs tomorrow at the rate they are scoring.
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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 12:25 pm

Amla's first stuff up as a captain. He'll learn from this.
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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 12:58 pm

At stumps Lanka need 261 off the final day. That's still nearly three an over on a worn pitch, so it's difficult to see them doing it, but with Vernon struggling, and Tahir not controlling the ball, we're gonna need an absolute special from Steyn to save this from the self inflicted fires.
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 1:10 pm

i would say its divine justice, the fair team well set to win.
its not 3 RPO but just a bit over 2.5
unless there is a magic spell from Steyn or Morkel lanka are thru
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Post by kingraf on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 1:13 pm

270 off 90 overs is 3 an over. How is 260 then 2.5?
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 1:26 pm

they can go at 2.5rpo easily without losing too many wkts and they will still be in the game until last hour
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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 12:02 am

Imran Tahir is gash. Hopefully young Dane Piedt gets a game in Colombo.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 7:07 am

Proteas have wrestled back control of the Test match this morning.

3 wickets for 31 runs in 14 overs.

Steyn removed Silva, with the help of a cracking catch from QdK.
Morkel got Mahela with some excellent bowling.
But most importantly, JP, got Sangakkara with a long hop which could've gone anywhere but was planted in to Amla's hands at mid wicket.

Game on.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 7:26 am

158/6.

Steyn removed thirimanne and Morkel snares chandimal.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 8:04 am

First thing the ICC should do before they come towering down on ball tampering is to ensure the bowlers have a reasonable stake in the game, by providing pitches that are fair to everyone, not just the batsman.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 9:39 am

Massive win for South Africa as Sri Lanka fold for 216 in the chase of 370. They were 110-1 at stumps yesterday, but today Morkel and Steyn blasted through the rest of the lineup. Sangakkara made 76 and the skipper Angelo Mathews remained unbeaten on 27, but nothing else coming today in terms of meaningful contributions.
Quinton de Kock had a fine game with the bat, and more importantly behind the stumps. He took some fine catches today on way to victory, and made important contributions in both innings with the bat. Perhaps its time for the eventuality already. QdK to take the gloves, and AB let free to focus on his batting.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 10:07 am

A number of key performances by Proteas' players in this match.

Dean Elgar the first South African opener to score a Test hundred in SL.
JP Duminy scoring his first hundred in Asia, and superbly marshalled the lower order. Also bagged 2 vital wickets with his bowling.
Morne Morkel was fast and hostile and took 7 wickets in the match.

But once again Dale Steyn was the star of the show. 5-54 and 4-45. 9-99 are the best ever figures by a fast bowler in Galle.

I'd like to see Piedt and Parnell replace Tahir and Philander in Colombo.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 10:21 am

Gerry, you think Quinton is ready to take over the gloves from AB on a permanent basis? He has proved himself worthy of a middle order place with his performances with the bat, and though people had concerns about his glovework, he took some really fine catches in the game. Admitedly he didn't have much of a test by spin, but than that can be said about AB as well. AB too is not much of a specialist keeper anyways, so they should give the gloves to de Kock and may be even consider AB in at 4? Yes Faf did well at 3 in his first test in that position, but they had to displace their best ever number 3 to bring about that change. Hashim back to 3, AB at 4 and Faf at 5?

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 10:28 am

Yes MSP I think QdK deserves to retain the gloves. He was fantastic, 8 catches and 1 stumping.

With AB's back issues, it's better he remains as a pure batsman as we dare lose him to an injury.

I think AB should remain at 5, as Amla now wants to stay at 4. Faf should be given until after the Windies series to see if he can take over the 3 position after Amla.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 20 Jul 2014, 10:29 am

Oh and I forgot to mention, Morne Morkel will be on a hat trick when he bowls at Colombo, after he got Lakmal and Eranga of consecutive deliveries to end this match.

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Post by Biltong on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 9:18 am

I just want to revisit the ball tampering issue.

It is wrong, and embarrassing, and humiliating, and teams guilty of it should forfeit the test t happens in as punishment, it should be eradicated completely, and teams should be under scrutiny for any ball tampering issues.

I find it unforgiveable that a player does it, or is defended by either his captain, team mates, his Cricket board or their fans.
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Post by Pal Joey on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 10:26 am

Biltong wrote:I just want to revisit the ball tampering issue.

It is wrong, and embarrassing, and humiliating, and teams guilty of it should forfeit the test t happens in as punishment, it should be eradicated completely, and teams should be under scrutiny for any ball tampering issues.

I find it unforgiveable that a player does it, or is defended by either his captain, team mates, his Cricket board or their fans.

That's what I said but Raf thinks I'm being too harsh.

 Wink
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Post by Biltong on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 10:57 am

Linebreaker wrote:
Biltong wrote:I just want to revisit the ball tampering issue.

It is wrong, and embarrassing, and humiliating, and teams guilty of it should forfeit the test t happens in as punishment, it should be eradicated completely, and teams should be under scrutiny for any ball tampering issues.

I find it unforgiveable that a player does it, or is defended by either his captain, team mates, his Cricket board or their fans.

That's what I said but Raf thinks I'm being too harsh.

 Wink

Yeah well, you know him, a little controversial our young lad. Wink
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Post by kingraf on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 10:58 am

No... that's not what I said. What I said is creating team punishments, for ball tampering is practically begging for match fixing to get an even bigger foothold.
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Post by Pal Joey on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 11:22 am

kingraf wrote:No... that's not what I said. What I said is creating team punishments, for ball tampering is practically begging for match fixing to get an even bigger foothold.

I thought I just read:

"cheating team... punishments... the team is practically begging for a flogging... to get a fix"

Yeah, that sums it up perfectly!
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Post by msp83 on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 1:21 pm

You guys watched the recent Trent Bridge tes between India and England?
All of us would have seen top-edgs clearing not only the boundary, but even the grounds themselves? The mass of the bats they use these days? Doctored fields to facilitate mass murder of bowlers in limited overs cricket, all in the name of entertainment?
Ball tampering is not at all good, and the punishments for that are silly to say the least. But there is another perspective to it all that we should not altogether ignore........

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Post by Biltong on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 1:29 pm

AGree MSP, but tighten the laws around the size of bat you may use.
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Post by kingraf on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 11:50 pm

To be honest, edges have always been big. One of the biggest sixes I was ever hit for was a leading edge which cleared long on with an old Duncan Fearnley...
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