England v India First Test Trent Bridge

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Post by msp83 on Tue 08 Jul 2014, 5:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

The 5 test series cramped into a 42 day schedule gets underway at Trent Bridge tomorrow. The 2 middling sides have a lot to prove. Hopefully we'll get to have some exciting cricket.

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Post by GSC on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:19 pm

Think India will be a little disappointed. In probably the best conditions they'll get all series, they haven't been anything more than marginally ahead since tea, despite Vijays great knock. England have hung in there.
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Post by Gerry SA on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:56 pm

GSC wrote:Think India will be a little disappointed. In probably the best conditions they'll get all series, they haven't been anything more than marginally ahead since tea, despite Vijays great knock. England have hung in there.
I doubt these are perfect conditions for batting. The pitch is a little dead, but the ball isn't coming on for free scoring, like the Indians are used to.

I think they'll enjoy batting more at Old Trafford or The Oval due to the true bounce.

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Post by Gerry SA on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:58 pm

Steven Finn fully fit, mentally ready and on form would've been the right man for this pitch.

Finn can bowl 145-150kph on a flat length.

Whereas the four seamers are all rather medium paced.

Pace is the key on pitches like this eg Johnson at Adelaide in the winter Ashes

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 7:25 pm

for me the highlights of the day:

1) Both captains started with positive intent and did make some positive moves and remained focussed . We have to see who drifts into autopilot modes of inacitvity first.
dhoni's taslk was a bit easier as he was on the batting side.

2) While there is no exaggerated bounce and seam movement ...it's not an  easy pitch.....ball doesn't come on to the bat so scoring runs ain't easy.
and towards the end of the day there was uneven bounce...both low bounce and occasional balls jumping off a length.

3) vijay did great.....obviously...but note my remark here every one of India's top 5 will get a hundred on this tour

4) Eng are too much in a self pity mode......lamenting about the pitch....remember they chose to make pitches like these against Aus. The've gotta get on  .

Indian bowling is though much better suited for this pitch.......Sami, Jadeja and Ishant will all relish this pitch

5) Tomm India needs to not lose a wicket in the first 8 overs or so....when anderson and broad would have tired.
they have already bowled 40 overs today.....

How long can they go bowling at this rate of overs / day

6) spinners conceded 60+ runs in 10 overs.
two ways of looking at it...Cook is justified in not trusting his spinners
OR
Cook doesn't trust his spinner so he does not have the confidence to bowl well

7) DRS was not missed
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 8:21 pm

Pitches like this just eugh eugh eugh. GSC is right, we've got to the stage now where counties who host these tests need five days worth of revenue, thus the pitch will be taylored to that rather than entertaining cricket 

I don't mind if there's no seam movement, but there's no pace/bounce in a day 1 pitch ffs. Its ridiculous, and it'll turn the paying public away
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 8:23 pm

But India winning the toss was huge. Pretty much stops England from winning 

Also no DRS is gonna p!ss me off as we go through the summer
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Post by KP_fan on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 9:33 pm

Olly wrote:Pitches like this just eugh eugh eugh. GSC is right, we've got to the stage now where counties who host these tests need five days worth of revenue, thus the pitch will be taylored to that rather than entertaining cricket 

I don't mind if there's no seam movement, but there's no pace/bounce in a day 1 pitch ffs. Its ridiculous, and it'll turn the paying public away

no one complained when Eng produced pitches like this in Ashes  Shocked 
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Post by GSC on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 10:37 pm

Because the cricket was interesting. Nobody except Vijay's immediate family could be reasonably enthralled by that days play
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Post by king_carlos on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 10:42 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Olly wrote:Pitches like this just eugh eugh eugh. GSC is right, we've got to the stage now where counties who host these tests need five days worth of revenue, thus the pitch will be taylored to that rather than entertaining cricket 

I don't mind if there's no seam movement, but there's no pace/bounce in a day 1 pitch ffs. Its ridiculous, and it'll turn the paying public away

no one complained when Eng produced pitches like this in Ashes  Shocked 

In fairness a few were they just got drowned out by celebrations because we were winning.

Many have been lamenting the production of these sorts of pitches for a fair few years and warning that they'd lead to disinterested fans outside of 'big advert series'  vomit  due to the style of cricket they produce. As a Surrey fan I'm bias but the Oval in particular has come in for lots of criticism (some warranted, some not so) for no longer producing its traditional quick bouncy wickets.

Given the crowd today for Test 1, Day 1 of the summers big series I'd say that they are being justified right now!

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Post by NickisBHAFC on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 11:02 pm

The only thing today showed was dropping Chris Jordan was bonkers.

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Post by JDizzle on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 1:01 am

I think it's becoming apparent that Moeen Ali isn't capable of being the frontline spinner for England, even in a five man attack. He just doesn't maintain pressure enough, especially in the first innings of games to build some pressure and give the seamers a rest. He might snag as many wickets in the Second as any specialist would, but he doesn't have the control.

England clearly think Simon Kerrigan is the next man in line, which was my few also, but I'm becoming less and less convinced that he has the consistency either. Deserves a go though.

Well batted India though, especially Murali Vijay, but as underrated knock from MS going on. He is showing that is possible to score runs quickly (ish) on this pitch.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 6:31 am

JDizzle wrote:I think it's becoming apparent that Moeen Ali isn't capable of being the frontline spinner for England, even in a five man attack. He just doesn't maintain pressure enough, especially in the first innings of games to build some pressure and give the seamers a rest. He might snag as many wickets in the Second as any specialist would, but he doesn't have the control.

England clearly think Simon Kerrigan is the next man in line, which was my few also, but I'm becoming less and less convinced that he has the consistency either. Deserves a go though.

Well batted India though, especially Murali Vijay, but as underrated knock from MS going on. He is showing that is possible to score runs quickly (ish) on this pitch.

Well ever in your mind this thought pops out that Moeen can be a front line spinner. He is a good allrounder but considering him to be a front-line spinner of a team, Giles and Swann were a member once, is bit too harsh on their part. Ali can play a part timer as Shehwag once used to do for India.

TBH, I still justify his place in the team looking his batting ability down the order, and his skills to bat with the tail. As your choice Simon Kerrigan, I think he may prove to be a good spinner but Indians play spin far better and going with some one who can produce no effect on Indian batting and also not reliant in batting is not a wise choice.

As the game will progress pitch will crack and rough patches will surely give Moeen a bit of advantage.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 6:56 am

Yeah we all know Moeen isn't good enough as a front line spinner yet. He's a bit better than a part timer I'd say. I still think Cook needs to use him/Root a little more to take the workload off the seamers
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Post by JDizzle on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 10:00 am

Not easy to give more overs to Ali and Root though they are going at 5+ an over and the innings run rate is below 3 despite that. If yesterday is a pattern for the summer, then out seamers are going to be shot to bits by the end of it.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 10:22 am

there is too much of self pity in England Re:the pitch....
commentators, media, Eng bowlers , players everyone is pitying/ sympathizing with the English side.

The risk and a very big one......the playing XI with the backing of public pity grant themselves a justification...should they perform badly.

and the moment justification is ready in a cut throat competitive environment, the mental intensity drops.... and the performance drops...... and the game is gone.

this public display of pity might have already cost Eng the match.

the leader should have manfully said something like ( even if it meant lying)...pitch is same for both sides and we have the local knowledge, better seamers and are better positioned to win.
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 11:10 am

Prior drops a wicketkeeper's sitter
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 11:22 am

I'm going to cut Prior some slack there. Given how close he has to be standing for the ball to be carrying he has very very little time to react. Of course you could then argue that he should really have Cook even closer (he's quite close already) and let it go.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 11:33 am

Dhoni has played an unbelievably ugly inning.....wakling down the pitch....strolling on the off side as ball is delivered....but 50 useful runs
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 11:41 am

Ganguly making some very good points on how to attack Dhoni's discomfort against seam bowling.

Indian seen off anderson and broad and somehow dhoni has survived scoring only 2 runs and that too off a dropped catch
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 11:47 am

Eng should use their seamer like fastish spinners on a pitch like this...bowling cutters
Aus used Watson to bowl fast cutters hitting the stumps and bringing lbw into play
one time i saw Hussain use Craig white in a similar way to good effect
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 11:49 am

KP_fan wrote:Eng should use their seamer like fastish spinners on a pitch like this...bowling cutters
Aus used Watson to bowl fast cutters hitting the stumps and bringing lbw into play
one time i saw Hussain use Craig white in a similar way to good effect

interesting suggestion. certainly Anderson and Broad are capable of bowling some cutters. I think Stokes can too (not sure about Plunkett). I suspect England will try to get this ball reversing fairly soon though (yesterday it took them about 30 overs to get it to reverse), so maybe after that they'll give it a go.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 11:58 am

I'm not so sure this pitch is going to spin very much. Any turn there is will be slow, and I suspect the pitch will go more up-and-down than anything else. Dhoni's scrapped really well here, looked completely out of nick this morning but is gutsing it out. As I type that he's beaten again.

On a slightly mischievous note, one can't help but feel England would have copped a fair bit of criticism had they been still scoring at 2.75 per over after 104 overs. Given this is the sort of pitch India should be used to, are they being too negative?

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Post by Liam on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 12:11 pm

Pitch is truly dire. England doing well though this morning. Keeping runs to a minimum and making it difficult for these two to build up some momentum. Only criticism I have is that they should be bowling fuller and straighter and attack the stumps for an lbw/bowled. Set an onside field and see what happens. Nice to see England and Cook trying different plans also.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 12:36 pm

well Jimmy does switch to a few cutters and he's got rid of Vijay with one which just nips back a bit. Too high? we'll wait for hawkeye but no DRS so he's on his way...

ends a lovely knock by Vijay that clap

Jadeja in ahead of Binny...

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 12:37 pm

oooh it was going over, we have our first (non-)DRS controversy Very Happy

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 12:43 pm

Key 10-15 overs in this Test match now.

Dhoni is pretty good at batting with the tail.

Jadeja and Binny are pretty decent hitters.

India will want 400+

England will be thinking 350 all out.

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Post by GSC on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 2:02 pm

Still no test 100 outside India for Dhoni then.

India need to be careful here. Need to push 400 to really put England under pressure you'd think (barring a probable batting collapse)
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 2:12 pm

Superb heart shown by England!

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:48 pm

why do we allways do this. We cant finish teams off.

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:57 pm

England's pop gun attack being exposed yet again.

Without doctored green tops they are club standard at the very best.

Liam Plunkett dubbed as England's Mitchell Johnson...never laughed so much in my life. Johnson bowls 150kph+. Plunkett is 140/143 at the very best.

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Post by GSC on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:00 pm

Alright Gerry.

Much like yesterday, England have plugged away and got rewards in spurts. Not enough life in this pitch
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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:02 pm

I am glad you are being entertained Gerry. I am just gutted i took you off ignore.

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:04 pm

GSC wrote:Alright Gerry.

Much like yesterday, England have plugged away and got rewards in spurts. Not enough life in this pitch
Not much life in the pitch? Let's see what the Indian bowlers do before righting this off...

England should've picked a proper spinner, not the beard man and his charity bowling.

And Steven Finn would've blown away of the these two tailenders.

Pace is pace.

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:05 pm

mystiroakey wrote:I am glad you are being entertained Gerry. I am just gutted i took you off ignore.
England pick a balanced side and this wouldn't happen.

Bits and pieces like Ali and Stokes aren't Test class bowlers.

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Post by GSC on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:07 pm

England should've picked Warne and Mitch. I can make silly statements too.

There simply isn't a test class spinner in English cricket at present, and certainly not one that can trouble Indian batsmen. Finn by all accounts is not near a return to test standard.
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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:10 pm

GSC wrote:England should've picked Warne and Mitch. I can make silly statements too.

There simply isn't a test class spinner in English cricket at present, and certainly not one that can trouble Indian batsmen. Finn by all accounts is not near a return to test standard.
Monty Panesar, Test quality, he's not trying to p!ss on the tourists is he?

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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:11 pm

Gerry

we just havent got the spirit to grind the opposition down at the end- we think its over at 9 wickets.. it happened throughout the last few series. we are not far away, just need the mentality back. The confidence that we are better

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Post by GSC on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:11 pm

Yes, England should've picked a spinner recently dropped by a Division 2 side for poor form.
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Post by GSC on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:24 pm

At least we're 1-1 on DRS stinkers
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:31 pm

England seem to have a moral aversion against possessing a killer instinct.

Good courage shown by this last wicket pair, though!

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:36 pm

indian will be more and more getting a big knock from one of top 5 and useful contributions from any 3 of last 6.
they can all bat and score except iShant who can hang in and shud be no. 11

Morale deflatin last wkt stand so far with the amount of runs scored by last wkt that could be a handosme vicotry margin
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 4:55 pm

well played 50 by Bhuvnesh. He is a bowling allrounder at FC level with a double hundred in Duleep trophy.
has shown great application as last wkt stand nears 100.
Dhoni, Vijay, Bhuv and shami all get their highest overseas score in this inning.
a Lot of character.

Cooks nightmares continue....
Warne's words from his last column" If there is an even match situation, Cook will find a way to concede the advantage to the opponent" apply with this unbelievable near 100 run stand
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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 5:02 pm

Cook has to go- we need a captain to be in there faces , pumping the players up, making crazy field chances, confusing the batsmen and if that fails he needs to tell the batters that he fiecked there wifes last night.

This is a joke- but anyway- the indians have just turned the game in to a draw by not scoring fast enough. they may have been better of getting out earlier- it will be two days gone soon and this track is flat

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Post by kingraf on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 5:12 pm

Shami? Lol.
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 5:13 pm

it would be a miracle if Eng save the game.
their morale must be shattered to see their captain was waiting for a declaration....

blessing in disguise to have a crack at deflated Eng....dhoni would have batted on.
Now I expect 5 down by end of day
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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 5:15 pm

a miracle lol- it has draw all over it.l - they scored at 2.8 or something- really not winning cricket.

england will easily hit a minimum of 350 and take up 1.5 days doing it.

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Post by kingraf on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 5:17 pm

That swung big
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Post by mystiroakey on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 5:19 pm

hit something odd- pitch has now been fixed. by smashing it up with something from the stone age Shocked

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Post by Scrumpy on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 5:29 pm

He has got to go.
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 5:33 pm

cook has not disintegrated mentally....Its only Warne's illusion
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