England v India First Test Trent Bridge

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Post by msp83 on Tue 08 Jul 2014, 5:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

The 5 test series cramped into a 42 day schedule gets underway at Trent Bridge tomorrow. The 2 middling sides have a lot to prove. Hopefully we'll get to have some exciting cricket.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:09 pm

kingraf wrote:There's something on both pads MfC, the front pad picks up a little something as the ball passes as well, before it hits the back pad.

sorry I'm not sure if I made myself clear. There's a mark on the front pad which is from the ball clipping it on its way through, it's not the bat as you can clearly see (front on) that he's not hit his front pad. There's then obviously a mark on the back pad where the ball smashes into it. My question was whether there's also a scratch on the back pad from where the bat could have hit it? I didn't see anything, but wasn't looking that closely. If he hasn't hit his back pad, then he's hit the ball.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:10 pm

change of ball, don't think India will like that, the previous one was just reversing a bit...

over-rate has dropped since lunch, but there's been a wicket and Ishant bowling which will always make the overs a bit longer...

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:12 pm

I pretty much agree with MFC here ; though I'm not sure the decision would have been overturned . We saw in the last two Ashes series several cases which surprised many ; and in this case a lot of people , here and in the commentary box , who have seen a lot of cricket , cannot agree : so it does point to the limitations of the technology.

Again we all have different standards of proof and faith in the gadgets : I am a "stop the howler" man ; and I don't think this was a howler.

Anyway we may as well move on ; the game is doing so.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:13 pm

Oh, I understand now. I don't know either, I wasn't really looking during that hotspot, just caught the flicker on the front pad.

Thing for me is, even if he it, it seems pretty close to the pad impact. There isn't enough evidence to overturn the original decision, imo.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

that's out though, absolutely plumb. Ballance again falling around his pad, needs to be careful that doesn't become an issue. England in a spot of bother, Sharma bowling his one decent spell of the series?

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:17 pm

Ishant gets another one ! No doubt on that one (miraculously he has managed to take two wickets without overstepping on either  Smile )

Two new batsmen at the crease and England have to settle in again...

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:20 pm

its ok- Root is very good in this situations-

cue the 100

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:29 pm

The oft-maligned Ishant Sharma is having a very good spell here...Root still ...rooted to the spot and not looking too confident at the moment.
Game certainly looks a different animal to its pre-lunch cousin.

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Post by GSC on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:33 pm

Question is whether they can sustain it. England couldn't.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:40 pm

Sharma has another. Bell playing then leaving and edging behind. Very good bowling, but yet another innings from Bell where he promised much but delivered little, been a bit of a theme for him this summer. England need him to step up.

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:41 pm

Bell gone and England in a bit of trouble...

They bat deep , I know. Might need to . Ishant Sharma the wrecker  Smile 

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:41 pm

ali averages 54 , root is the next bradman- dont worry lads Wink

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:43 pm

only 12 overs bowled by India in that hour, poor.

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:49 pm

GSC wrote:Question is whether they can sustain it. England couldn't.

Depends whether England can get another big partnership going. These two bat a couple of hours , then the Indians will suffer just as they did...but three wickets have fallen in an hour and right now the pressure is giving them an extra bowler , as it were...

Ishant will have to come off soon , and he has been the only real direct threat so far. Will probably see the spinner back then , to play on the nerves a bit ? Losing Bell was a big blow.

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:51 pm

Ali a nice drive to get off the mark.

England would like to see him reprise Headingley . Might be well worth having Jadeja bowl at him early , see if he gets overexcited...

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:18 pm

One thing root allways does is take shine of the ball. He allways sticks about. The new ball is the only worry. Once that ball is older it will get easier again

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:22 pm

Ali having again looked completely at ease takes his eye off a short ball and is caught at slip. Very poor shot, on this pitch you simply stand up and play those. England in real trouble now, need Matt Prior to come to the party.

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:24 pm

Moeen gone ...surprised by the bounce...which is getting increasingly uneven.

England now facing a real battle to save this match. Unless there is a solid stand soon they will end up well astern on first innings. And batting last might be distinctly tricky.
India may have some judgement to make about their second innings ; but they will really fancy their chances from here...

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:24 pm

That is not good though- Killer wicket and a very odd one..

come on England , steady the ship. Time for Prior to prove he is back

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:27 pm

Oh my god - he wasnt even a foot from the ball

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:28 pm

another shocker goes against England, starting to get really angry now, he's nowhere near that furious

you can understand why India don't want DRS, England should consider threatening pulling out if this carries on.

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:28 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Ali having again looked completely at ease takes his eye off a short ball and is caught at slip. Very poor shot, on this pitch you simply stand up and play those. England in real trouble now, need Matt Prior to come to the party.

He had looked good . Bit of a shock to see him go. But India have used the short ball well today... you could argue Plunkett overdoes the bouncer and loses the element of surprise.

Think Matt Prior has just been dudded ...nowhere near that ball ! But I fear the writing is on the wall for England now...

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:30 pm

we been done.

stokes deffo hit that and walks

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:31 pm

he's hit that one though. Stokes gone second ball, England in disarray.

wonder if anyone will be labelling Dhoni a cheat for the appeal against Prior, he knows Prior is nowhere near it. still it's not Broad, so he's probably fine.

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:32 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:another shocker goes against England, starting to get really angry now, he's nowhere near that furious

you can understand why India don't want DRS, England should consider threatening pulling out if this carries on.

Well that doesn't really make sense MFC ...those mistakes could just as easily go the other way. It is infuriating , of course. But it seems the stars just aren't aligned for England at present  Sad 

Stokes gone and India now red hot favourites to win this...

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:32 pm

the Prior decision just gets worse every time you see it, utterly shocking, and you can scarcely make a better argument for DRS than that.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:33 pm

There's always something raw and majestic, yet somewhat beautiful, about an English batting collapse.

I also asked in 2011 why do we bother playing India, a backward cricketing nation, and it is something I must ask again.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:34 pm

alfie wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:another shocker goes against England, starting to get really angry now, he's nowhere near that furious

you can understand why India don't want DRS, England should consider threatening pulling out if this carries on.

Well that doesn't really make sense MFC ...those mistakes could just as easily go the other way.    It is infuriating , of course.  But it seems the stars just aren't aligned for England at present  Sad 

Stokes gone and India now red hot favourites to win this...

the difference being England want to play with DRS, so does every other country but India. India think they get more bad decisions go their way than against them so don't want it. Why should it be India who decide? If England want it they should be able to use it in a home series, surely? let India not use it if they don't want to...

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Post by GSC on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:37 pm

This is a very mentally soft team.
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Post by kingraf on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:39 pm

Proper collapse this. My club side (second in the country mind) would fancy their chances bowling at this England lineup.
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:44 pm

kingraf wrote:Proper collapse this. My club side (second in the country mind) would fancy their chances bowling at this England lineup.

yeah i doubt you would be granted DRS either

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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:45 pm

Look I agree India should have to accept drs if they wish to tour anywhere. But their dislike of the system can hardly be based on foreknowledge of bad decisions going their way ! Unless they have some damn good clairvoyants working for them...

It's a pain , but moaning about it makes us look like poor losers. Truth is , they have taken full advantage of winning an important toss , and basically outplayed England ever since (despite some good patches for the home side).

Worst thing is England's poor bowlers will be back out there again this evening after this sorry batting effort...even if Dhoni messes up his declaration second time round , and some rain on Sunday enables England to escape - they will still have gone a long way towards cooking the key bowlers right at the start of the series...

Five Tests ; so plenty of time to come back. But England are really scratching for the confidence boost they so desperately need.

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Post by GSC on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:47 pm

This really is a squad of mental midgets at the moment. Couple fall and they all follow.
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:48 pm

alfie wrote:Look I agree India should have to accept drs if they wish to tour anywhere.  But their dislike of the system can hardly be based on foreknowledge of bad decisions going their way !  Unless they have some damn good clairvoyants working for them...

It's a pain , but moaning about it makes us look like poor losers.  Truth is , they have taken full advantage of winning an important toss , and basically outplayed England ever since (despite some good patches for the home side).

Worst thing is England's poor bowlers will be back out there again this evening after this sorry batting effort...even if Dhoni messes up his declaration second time round , and some rain on Sunday enables England to escape - they will still have gone a long way towards cooking the key bowlers right at the start of the series...

Five Tests ; so plenty of time to come back.  But England are really scratching for the confidence boost they so desperately need.
no it doesnt alfie - we all say the same even when we get the decisions going for us. 

we just want fair cricket with drs and again we have a ruined test match because of it

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:49 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:While it's nice to be thinking about how best to try to win the game, England are a very long way behind still, more than 300, so let's not get carried away ...

Exactly. A couple of wickets lost in the first 20 minutes after lunch and the scoreboard will look very different. As we are for now ....

Well, it took a bit over 20 minutes to get the two wickets but the rest came soon enough!

Big trouble ....

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Post by VTR on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:52 pm

Woeful from England again. I think we will have to expect some very poor performances, I have a feeling we will hit rock bottom then slowly climb back towards the top. I can see a lot of similarity with how bad things were in 1999.

I do wonder what effect this might have on crowds, 2005 got a lot of people interested and England have been generally quite good since. Interest will start to wane and we could be back to the days of half-empty grounds.

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Post by kingraf on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:54 pm

I thought the 5-0 was rock bottom? Or at least the Lanka defeat? There is no shame in losing to one of the greatest Indian teams to arrive at your shores
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:57 pm

we havent lost anything yet- Jesus- root and braod are the two most gritty players we have- if we get to 350- rain on saturday- its a draw.

game over.

But the refs/indians(decision) are being shown up hugely with the lack of DRS

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Post by kingraf on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:59 pm

Quite, you haven't lost yet, and I don't think you will, but if you were to, its hardly rock bottom.
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:12 pm

Ok  plan is to bat out the day, and keep root. These two will have to dig in but its not beyond them. Runs not so important but we need to score a few - a minimum of 60 should be sufficient for the loss of broad at worst

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:15 pm

mystiroakey wrote:we havent lost anything yet- Jesus- root and braod are the two most gritty players we have- if we get to 350- rain on saturday- its a draw.

game over.

But the refs/indians(decision) are being shown up hugely with the lack of DRS


Indeed. All the other test nations should refuse to play India again until they agree to use it.

It may not be perfect, but its a damn sight better than having to just suck it up when the ump give a bad decision.


On a different subject, how about giving the captaincy to Prior and letting Cook just worry about making runs? Having a wicketkeeper skipper seems to work for India.  Wink 
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:19 pm

I would give it to broad- Prior was very unlucky today but we dont know if he is back to being able to bat at this level yet. And i like broads attitude. He is slightly cocky but not stupid. He is a confident player and person, prior at the moment isnt

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Post by jbeadlesbigrighthand on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:25 pm

mystiroakey wrote:we havent lost anything yet- Jesus- root and braod are the two most gritty players we have- if we get to 350- rain on saturday- its a draw.

game over.

But the refs/indians(decision) are being shown up hugely with the lack of DRS

Day 3 and we're hoping for a draw. Against a very mediocre Indian team with one of the worst bowling attacks going, missing their top two bowlers.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:27 pm

mystiroakey wrote:I would give it to broad- Prior was very unlucky today but we dont know if he is back to being able to bat at this level yet. And i like broads attitude. He is slightly cocky but not stupid. He is a confident player and person, prior at the moment isnt

Good point, but I was thinking that as long as Prior's wicketkeeping is up to scratch (he's taking catches, getting run-outs / stumpings etc.) he still makes a good contribution to the team, even if his batting form is poor.

Broad is already expected to take wickets and (to a lesser degree) score runs. The added burden of captaincy might be a straw too many.
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:27 pm

yay the umpire's spotted the edge this time Very Happy

one thing I do feel DRS has done is cut down on the excessive appealing for everything. If you know it's not out you don't shout so much as there's no point. Suspect with DRS Dhoni wouldn't have appealed so strenuously for the Prior "dismissal".

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:28 pm

jbeadlesbigrighthand wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:we havent lost anything yet- Jesus- root and braod are the two most gritty players we have- if we get to 350- rain on saturday- its a draw.

game over.

But the refs/indians(decision) are being shown up hugely with the lack of DRS

Day 3 and we're hoping for a draw. Against a very mediocre Indian team with one of the worst bowling attacks going, missing their top two bowlers.


what do you expect when you lose the toss on this pitch. come on you are over playing it. we are not exactly in great shape mentally anyway and seriously out of form- when did we last win a test?

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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:30 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:I would give it to broad- Prior was very unlucky today but we dont know if he is back to being able to bat at this level yet. And i like broads attitude. He is slightly cocky but not stupid. He is a confident player and person, prior at the moment isnt

Good point, but I was thinking that as long as Prior's wicketkeeping is up to scratch (he's taking catches, getting run-outs / stumpings etc.) he still makes a good contribution to the team, even if his batting form is poor.

Broad is already expected to take wickets and (to a lesser degree) score runs. The added burden of captaincy might be a straw too many.
when broad came on the pitch- the first thing he did was tell the umpire that his decision was wrong and that prior missed it by a mile - basically telling him to up his game etc.

That is what i want from my captain. A player with edge. And Broad has experience in captaining England

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Post by KP_fan on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:32 pm

India should not over-attack Broad.
He can take the game away...there is a lot of work still left.
the same bolw tight choke runs and let a good deliuvery appear when the bowler is inspired or pitch acts up
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Post by KP_fan on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:35 pm

India attacking too much...trying too hard to take wickets

not the right approach....must stick to steady that worked.
bring kumar and jadja and choke Eng
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Post by alfie on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 4:38 pm

Annoying ...Root and Broad now getting a bit of a stand going , makes you wish the top order had just maintained concentration after lunch.
If they were four down now four hundred would be beckoning...
Credit to Ishant , he bowled well. But he shouldn't have had three wickets , all set batsmen , on this pitch .

Looks like the follow on is about to be put out of the equation ; not that India would have considered it seriously anyway.
What we really need is to somehow bat out today and at least let the bowlers get another nights sleep before they have to resume their efforts. Tall order : new ball due ; though this one seems to have worked some magic for them so they aren't in a hurry to take it.

alfie

Posts : 11366
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.

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