England v India First Test Trent Bridge

First topic message reminder :

The 5 test series cramped into a 42 day schedule gets underway at Trent Bridge tomorrow. The 2 middling sides have a lot to prove. Hopefully we'll get to have some exciting cricket.

Now that the ball isn't 90mph at the throat, the tailenders have remembered how to bat.

I don't like pitches like this, I really don't. I suspect, like the first two English Tests, it will crumble and we'll all be on the edge of our seats in the last session... but for me, that's not how it's supposed to be. Essentially punishing teams for losing the toss. "We'll give you nothing on day 1... the pitch is so flat there is no 'best day for batting', and we'll let the pitch crumble like a cheap tart".

kingraf wrote: Now that the ball isn't 90mph at the throat, the tailenders have remembered how to bat.

I don't like pitches like this, I really don't. I suspect, like the first two English Tests, it will crumble and we'll all be on the edge of our seats in the last session... but for me, that's not how it's supposed to be. Essentially  punishing teams for losing the toss. "We'll give you nothing on day 1... the pitch is so flat there is no 'best day for batting', and we'll let the pitch crumble like a cheap tart".

if that in bold happens the groundsman / pitch curator would be justified.....

Sorry, I disagree. Crumbling day five pitches are only good when the side expected to bat on day five have been given some sort of advantage to counteract this, ie a bit of green day one, or a very good batting day for day three. This is lambs to the slaughter stuff. I'll watch, of course, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable.

Strange goings on. Two of the three sessions clearly belonged to England but it was still India's day. However, not so much that they can relax. The draw has to be the favourite but all results still possible.

kingraf wrote:Sorry, I disagree. Crumbling day five pitches are only good when the side expected to bat on day five have been given some sort of advantage to counteract this, ie a bit of green day one, or a very good batting day for day three. This is lambs to the slaughter stuff. I'll watch, of course, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable.  

how is this diffrent from green tracks that offer pace and bounce on D1 and and then flatten out?
wining the toss does give an advantage on many pitches but that's from time immemorial

I had proposed though that instead of roll of toss...captain should be given the choice sequentially  in alternate game.
starting with the visiting captain  making his choice in first test.

Stuart Broad has saved the day today IMO. 

Ali, Prior, and Stokes all disappointing. Ali is out of his dept IMO.

A bit harsh on Moeen Ali who's only playing his third Test, and has already made a century in one of them.

Well batted Jimmy   Quite stylish at times....

I don't mind winning the toss having an inherent advantage, I do mind winning the toss finishing the match effectively from ball one.

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote: .................

.......Pringle swung the ball and could bat a bit and the rational of picking him was same as Binny.......5 bowlers cum 6th batsman...lends balance..when you canto afford to pick a pure bowler or pure batsman.

and England driven by conditions had plenty of such 5th bowler cum 6 batsmen that I can remember......David Capel, Chris Cowdrey, Pringle, craig White..and sometimes Bresnan was also picked by same logic

pitches and environments where ball doe swing and seam, this kinda balance player doe make sense

  ....Irani, Ealham, etc.  Many a long list has been compiled of all the English rounders who didn't turn out to be the new Botham....

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote: .................

.......Pringle swung the ball and could bat a bit and the rational of picking him was same as Binny.......5 bowlers cum 6th batsman...lends balance..when you canto afford to pick a pure bowler or pure batsman.

and England driven by conditions had plenty of such 5th bowler cum 6 batsmen that I can remember......David Capel, Chris Cowdrey, Pringle, craig White..and sometimes Bresnan was also picked by same logic

pitches and environments where ball doe swing and seam, this kinda balance player doe make sense

  ....Irani, Ealham, etc.  Many a long list has been compiled of all the English rounders who didn't turn out to be the new Botham....

Adam Hollioake, Gavin Hamilton, Dominic Cork (who at least was a Test class bowler, but should have been batting no higher than 8), Chris Lewis,

Basically, between Botham and Flintoff, if you played some reasonably successful county cricket and bowled some medium paced wobblers and got the occasional 50 you had a chance of being England's 'next great all rounder'...

dummy_half wrote:

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

msp83 wrote: .................

.......Pringle swung the ball and could bat a bit and the rational of picking him was same as Binny.......5 bowlers cum 6th batsman...lends balance..when you canto afford to pick a pure bowler or pure batsman.

and England driven by conditions had plenty of such 5th bowler cum 6 batsmen that I can remember......David Capel, Chris Cowdrey, Pringle, craig White..and sometimes Bresnan was also picked by same logic

pitches and environments where ball doe swing and seam, this kinda balance player doe make sense

  ....Irani, Ealham, etc.  Many a long list has been compiled of all the English rounders who didn't turn out to be the new Botham....

Adam Hollioake, Gavin Hamilton, Dominic Cork (who at least was a Test class bowler, but should have been batting no higher than 8), Chris Lewis,

Basically, between Botham and Flintoff, if you played some reasonably successful county cricket and bowled some medium paced wobblers and got the occasional 50 you had a chance of being England's 'next great all rounder'...

with the exception of Hollioake all others named were atleast allrounders at the first class level.
Hollioake was plucked out and thrown into international cricket for being a captaincy material

My point is that Binny is pretty much like the names mentioned here recently, not good enough with the bat, not good enough with the ball, yet picked on some desperate hope that he would somehow balance the side, not going to happen? If they were to pick a 5th bowler, they should have picked someone who could have given 10 quiet overs. Binny never looked like coming anywhere close to getting a wicket, and was milked around effortlessly by the batsman. Had Ravindra Jadeja gone for a few more runs than he did and offered even slightly less control than he did, Binny's selection would have been even more exposed. Jadeja did alright anyways, but this is another pointer as to why R Ashwin can't come in as the led spinner when Binny is playing. Ashwin tends to go for a few more runs than Jadeja even on good days, when conditions does not suit him, he gets desperate and trys too many things and the captain would have not much control from his end. So if Ashwin plays, it has to be in place of Binny. India would lose nothing whatsoever with the ball, they'll only gain as Ashwin is an attacking bowler who would be free to try things without trying to get in between 2 roles of attacking and containing. And they wouldn't lose too much with the bat either, Ashwin has proved already that he's more than a bowler who can bat, he has a test average of 40, and has 2 test hundreds.

why did ashwin lose his place to jadeja when being a bowler he averaged 40 with the bat   

So today we'll have some #declarationspeculation

India need to attack to have a shot at winning, both with bat and with declaring. Let's see if MS can show Cook how to do it

Lead will need to be 350 or so by end of play for an overnight declaration

Don't think it realistically needs to be over 300 myself (slow, low pitch, Beginning to have variable bounce) - But, yeah, 350 probably needed to psychologically feel "safe"

If India get England's last wicket early doors, they might want to give us about 20 minutes tonight. However, I can't see Dhoni doing much more than that. India are in a good position but not a great one. Dhoni would be daft to seriously risk losing the opening Test (don't underestimate the importance of the first Test of a series) from where they are now.

Olly wrote:So today we'll have some #declarationspeculation

Don't think England will declare yet. Another 50-100 runs, then maybe.  

dhoni will not declare until just before lunch tomm.

This a battle Royale in..." who is a bigger chicken"

so far...Cook is a little bigger chicken...but there is 2 more days to go in this test and 4 more tests.....Dhoni might win this crown also

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

Olly wrote:So today we'll have some #declarationspeculation

Don't think England will declare yet. Another 50-100 runs, then maybe.  

Maybe let Jimmy get his hundred first

And the Burnley Lara clips one off his legs as the march towards a hundred begins

I do love that even when he bowls well Ishant still manages to rack up a hundred and go at over four an over

What's the point of Stuart Binny?

Dirty slogger with the bat, and a medium paced roller with the ball.

He'd struggle to get a game for most county sides...

Olly wrote:I do love that even when he bowls well Ishant still manages to rack up a hundred and go at over four an over

He's learnt we from the clubman Anderson

The Burney Lara must be setting his sights on a big knock here.

kingraf wrote:The Burney Lara must be setting his sights on a big knock here.

He'll probably burst into tears like a big girl again ...

I see Simon Katich has retired. Talk about a guy who refused to go gently into the night.

Good so far England ...these two have put Allott and Willis in the shade , and got the lead under eighty ...

Risky run there for Root is the nearer thing to a scare this morning. Hope young Joe can get that hundred as he's really worked for his team here .

Hundred it is !  

Fantastic knock from young Joe! What a start to the summer he's had!

When mediocre players like Vijay and Root are getting 100s, plus Shami and Anderson scoring runs, you know the pitch is shocking.

Roooooooooooooot    

Highest Test score now for Jimmy...

Milestones keep coming   

Jadeja soon surely?!

Burnley Lara playing expansive drives, majestic

100* partnership    

Hundred stand up now   

First time I think both teams have done this in a Test Match.

Sky sports getting excited over Jor Root's average of 45 and 4 hundreds.

He's a shocking player.

8 Tests outside England he averages mid 20s. With only 2 50s.

4 cheap hundreds on these crap pitches shows how crap he is.

Astonishing to think nearly a quarter of the runs in this game have come in the tenth wicket.

Nearly an hour into day four, and the game isn't even half done. You couldn't begin to criticize this pitch enough.

Good scoring rate this morning too.

...and 400 up   

Gerry SA wrote:Sky sports getting excited over Jor Root's average of 45 and 4 hundreds.

He's a shocking player.

8 Tests outside England he averages mid 20s. With only 2 50s.

4 cheap hundreds on these crap pitches shows how crap he is.

A bit OTT to suggest he's a "shocking" player?

Jimmy has strike rate of 85.   

Very pleased with Joe Root in this game. As critics who actually know something about cricket have recognized , he has flaws in his technique , which he will need to work on. But his character has enabled him to play some very good innings under pressure - this one arguably the best , despite the bland pitch.
I don't want him moved up the order again. But I think he is one for the next ten years.

I just didn't think he was a test opener. Certainly not in Aus with their seamers.

Getting tricky now for India. Going to have to push hard to set a total from here, and risk giving England an opening if they do.

Jimmy     

Fifty for Jimmy !

In style         

Hey he can have whatever he wants...

the odds you would have gotten on Jimmy becoming the first #11 to score a century...

This is cricket peaking.

Literally it'll never get better than a James Anderson 50. 

*edit - he just nutmegged Dhoni with a reverse sweep. Its majestic

James is just batting so far above his median, it's actually humorous. First time he's ever faced 50 consecutive deliveries in one innings,

Absolutely unbelievable stuff!

Much respect to both Root and Anderson.

Time to promote Jimmy to #6 or 7 I think!