England v India First Test Trent Bridge

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Post by msp83 on Tue 08 Jul 2014, 5:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

The 5 test series cramped into a 42 day schedule gets underway at Trent Bridge tomorrow. The 2 middling sides have a lot to prove. Hopefully we'll get to have some exciting cricket.

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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:14 pm

it's not as if England are struggling for runs though, they're going at over 3 to the over
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Post by alfie on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:16 pm

You're a hard man to please , dyrewolf  Smile 

Let Jimmy get his hundred , then start swinging at everything...

Seriously : whatever they do , bowling India out cheaply and winning is very unlikely. I actually believe the longer they grind India down , the better the (small) chance they will have of making the pressure work for them enough to knock them over.

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Post by GSC on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:16 pm

As I said before, blame the ECB for creating this situation through test match bidding. When it costs up to 2m to bid for one, you dont want to be losing 20% of your revenue
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:17 pm

kingraf wrote:it's not as if England are struggling for runs though, they're going at over 3 to the over

True. Makes you wonder how India only averaged 2.8 an over in their 1st innings.

Then again, I don't think our lads bowled so many "inviting" short balls, no-balls and byes.  Wink  Our fielding was probably a bit tighter too.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:18 pm

The longer England bat, the more runs they score, the less likely it is for India to lose?

Not sure there's much logic there
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:20 pm

alfie wrote:You're a hard man to please , dyrewolf  Smile 

Let Jimmy get his hundred , then start swinging at everything...

Seriously : whatever they do , bowling India out cheaply and winning is very unlikely.  I actually believe the longer they grind India down , the better the (small) chance they will have of making the pressure work for them enough to knock them over.


I wouldn't say I'm hard to please alfie.

Just frustrated by how negatively England have been playing the last half hour or so.

After all Jimmy got to 60-odd by swinging his bat and racking up boundaries. Root's refusal to run is denying him the chance to get a quick hundred, as well as slowing England's momentum. Believe me, I would love to see Jimmy get a very well deserved ton.

If both guys played their normal game, we'd have a decent lead in fairly short order and be able to stick India back in.
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Post by GSC on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:21 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
kingraf wrote:it's not as if England are struggling for runs though, they're going at over 3 to the over

True. Makes you wonder how India only averaged 2.8 an over in their 1st innings.

Then again, I don't think our lads bowled so many "inviting" short balls, no-balls and byes.  Wink  Our fielding was probably a bit tighter too.
Tbf, Broad and Jimmy have probably raised it quite a bit.
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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:21 pm

England's only hope is of an absolute Indian collapse. Not sure time really plays a role in that. Let Lara get his 100, and he'll be steaming like a demon
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:21 pm

So you are blaming root and dont think this is normal..

Its genius is what it is.

You lash it against the wrong bowler you are out.

JIMMY is no lara- lets get real for a minute- whatever his nickname is.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:21 pm

Well they're taking singles again now after that weird 20 minute period of not doing so

Boundaries have dried up cos India have everyone on the fence!
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:22 pm

And as I say that root hits a four!
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:23 pm

Would like to see England declare once Root gets his 150 and Anderson his 100.
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:23 pm

Olly wrote:Well they're taking singles again now after that weird 20 minute period of not doing so

Boundaries have dried up cos India have everyone on the fence!
i think they were just extra carefull before we got the lead- and wanted to make sure we did for physiological reasons.

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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:25 pm

Who would have guessed firing Pietersen would allow Anderson to reach his true potential?
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Post by alfie on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:25 pm

Sorry , wolf that's just not true. Jimmy didn't get 60 by swinging the bat at all...he generally defended , and picked off boundaries when he got a ball he liked , with the field all placed for catching close up.
This strategy has set a world record partnership : just let them keep going as they want ...reckon they've earned the right to that choice.

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:25 pm

Afternoon all.

This is a bit of a turn up isn't it.  Unusual to see Eng being the ones getting the high score in when it all looked over.

I hope they don't gloss over the batting concerns up the order because of this though.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:26 pm

mystiroakey wrote:So you are blaming root and dont think this is normal..

Its genius is what it is.

You lash it against the wrong bowler you are out.

JIMMY is no lara- lets get real for a minute- whatever his nickname is.


Has either played looked even remotely like getting out very often this morning? Think they've only offered 1 or 2 chances each.

How dangerous have the Indian bowlers looked?

As the TMS guys have said, Jimmy has earned the right to face the bowling and score at will. He helped Root get his 100, now Root should be happy to push on and be willing to rotate the strike to help Anderson in return.

As well as reaching personal milestones, it also keeps the scoreboard moving along and gives England more time to bowl at India.
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Post by guildfordbat on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:36 pm

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:435/9, trail by 22. I would declare now - seriously! India are demoralised and don't expect it. Give 'em 20 minutes before lunch. Nothing for Cook to lose and a lot to gain.

I quite like your lateral thinking there , guildford .  I imagine you were a fairly innovative captain  in your playing days ?
Might have been worth a try - too late now - but the other side is that bowling India out quickly on this is still rather unlikely ; so grinding them into the dirt for as long as possible might be even better ?
An actual lead for England would be an improbable feather in their cap ...and would also help to deflate India . But even more the drag on their bowlers ...  Every extra over of toil is chipping away at their morale.

Too kind, Alfie. My captaincy was normally confined to Sunday friendlies where the aim was not only to win but also to give everyone an opportunity to shine - not always mutually compatible!!

Remarkable partnership by Root and Anderson. They deserve massive credit. A small word of praise as well to Broad (even though I'm not normally a fan) - he showed a glimpse yesterday of what could be achieved against this attack and helped stop the rot when we looked like completely folding.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:37 pm

I did stick a fiver on Anderson to be MOTM at odds of 12/1 on the account of his bowling...not his Gower-like batting! Well done to Joe Root as well for century which, because of Anderson, has slipped under the radar somewhat.

India are demoralised, defensive and dragging their feet in the field. Keep batting England, one over into the next and wear them down some more.

I don't think Anderson will make his ton (sorry!), because once into the nineties he'll feel the acute pressure and enormity of the situation. He's been relatively carefree up till now!

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Post by Hoggy_Bear on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:44 pm

Hoggy_Bear wrote:
Olly wrote:So today we'll have some #declarationspeculation


Don't think England will declare yet. Another 50-100 runs, then maybe. Smile 

Make that another 150-200 runs  Wink 

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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:45 pm

If I was captain, I'd keep batting til they bowled us out. Lead is only 30 at the moment, and I think a declaration would bring feelings of relief, rather than dread. They are probably a tad demoralised at the moment, but I don't believe for a second they wouldn't look forward to batting again.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:I did stick a fiver on Anderson to be MOTM at odds of 12/1 on the account of his bowling...not his Gower-like batting! Well done to Joe Root as well for century which, because of Anderson, has slipped under the radar somewhat.

India are demoralised, defensive and dragging their feet in the field. Keep batting England, one over into the next and wear them down some more.

I don't think Anderson will make his ton (sorry!), because once into the nineties he'll feel the acute pressure and enormity of the situation. He's been relatively carefree up till now!

Equally, he could just do what Root did and hit a couple of fours.  Wink Jimmy doesn't seem to be feeling any pressure today - the real pressure was on when he came into bat and England were still a long way behind.
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Post by alfie on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:49 pm

kingraf wrote:If I was captain, I'd keep batting til they bowled us out. Lead is only 30 at the moment, and I think a declaration would bring feelings of relief, rather than dread. They are probably a tad demoralised at the moment, but I don't believe for a second they wouldn't look forward to batting again.


My thinking too , kingraf. Perhaps that makes us both ultra conservative captains ? I like to think not but am sometimes glad I don't have to answer to the Britsh media after each match...

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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:51 pm

I remember in high school, we were playing in the state final, and were chasing 132, we managed to dig ourselves to 60/9 (proper choke), and our #11 scored a fantastic 11, in a 72 run partnership to see us home. It was then that I believed in the power of 11. This is incredible
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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:51 pm

kingraf wrote:If I was captain, I'd keep batting til they bowled us out. Lead is only 30 at the moment, and I think a declaration would bring feelings of relief, rather than dread. They are probably a tad demoralised at the moment, but I don't believe for a second they wouldn't look forward to batting again.



Hmm. The draw is looking pretty likely anyway, given the pitch and India's batting capacity. More bowling time increases the chance of something happening, bagging wickets and maybe even sparking a freakish collapse (wishful thinking, I know).

Continuing to bat just increases the certainty of a draw and drains continued interest in the match.
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Post by alfie on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 1:59 pm

No number eleven has ever scored a century in a Test Match. So history suggests Jimmy will fall short somehow...perhaps Root will get out on him ...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:00 pm

I'm with Kingraf/Alfie on this, bat and score runs until they get us out. Surely building a lead just increases our chances of winning whilst taking India's chance away?!?

If we can get a lead of 50-100 and bowl them out for 250 odd in 70-90 overs we have about 40-50 overs to get 150 odd
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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:04 pm

Maybe Alfie, I've always thought of myself as more of a processes type captain. Systematically working to get myself into a situation which is as stacked in my favour as quickly as possible. If a team is 100/6 in a t20, I'm more likely to spread the field and restrict them to 130, than try bowl them out and risk chasing 150. Always looking for the percentage play... Warne would be disgusted!!
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:06 pm

yep keep going.

it may be nervy for jimmy though- but if we can get to that point then we can try and get some more quick runs and bat out.

At this point with such a low chance of a win and such a huge chance of a draw we have to allow Jimmy the personal glory and with it we still gain momentum and confidence for the next test match- which didn't look on the cards not so long ago

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:07 pm

kingraf wrote:Maybe Alfie, I've always thought of myself as more of a processes type captain. Systematically working to get myself into a situation which is as stacked in my favour as quickly as possible. If a team is 100/6 in a t20, I'm more likely to spread the field and restrict them to 130, than try bowl them out and risk chasing 150. Always looking for the percentage play... Warne would be disgusted!!
Gotta lose to win raf, lose to win #logic #funkycaptaincy #declarationspeculation
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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:10 pm

Aye Olly, real men declare when they're behind!
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Post by alfie on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:14 pm

kingraf wrote:Maybe Alfie, I've always thought of myself as more of a processes type captain. Systematically working to get myself into a situation which is as stacked in my favour as quickly as possible. If a team is 100/6 in a t20, I'm more likely to spread the field and restrict them to 130, than try bowl them out and risk chasing 150. Always looking for the percentage play... Warne would be disgusted!!

 Very Happy  Indeed he would. I think I'd probably prefer to go for the throat too in the situation you outline above ...but it would rather depend on what bowlers I had left - and whether I trusted my batsmen to chase any more than 110  Smile 

Warne would have been "fun" as a Test captain. But many Australian cricket people of my acquaintance are quite relieved he never got to fill that role...

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

Roooot 150!

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Post by alfie on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

Root 150  clap 

Great day for White and Red Rose...

Out now ? Not ?

Surely he hit that ?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:18 pm

He's missed it by a mile!!!

Get back to your mark Ishant you donkey
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Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:19 pm

He needs some Instant Karma

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:19 pm

poor indians want drs now.

even though he was miles away.

Best thing that could happen for test cricket is if India was on the wrong side of the decisions.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:20 pm

150 up for Root. Fantastic innings-saving knock.  clap 

Just need Jimmy to get another 20 or so and that would wrap up England's innings nicely (not to mention historically).
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Post by alfie on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:20 pm

Apparently he missed it by a fair bit. What was the sound ? Whatever , move on.

Good to see Oxenford getting one right.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:22 pm

If only there were some sort of review system in place, then the Indians could have had the fullest measure of their appeal! Laugh

500 is an important milestone on a purely psychologically basis, so please get there!

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:22 pm

kingraf wrote:Maybe Alfie, I've always thought of myself as more of a processes type captain. Systematically working to get myself into a situation which is as stacked in my favour as quickly as possible. If a team is 100/6 in a t20, I'm more likely to spread the field and restrict them to 130, than try bowl them out and risk chasing 150. Always looking for the percentage play... Warne would be disgusted!!


kingraf to replace Alistair Cook as England skipper (and continue our tradition of picking South Africans)!  Laugh 
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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:25 pm

Cheers Dyre. Could learn the English anthem in a day or so, if required
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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:28 pm

Jerusalem is the unofficial cricket one- but dont need to sing it.

tbh we are very short on saffas at the moment. Just prior that moved here as a child and i have a feeling this could be his last ever test series. So we could with a couple to bring the balance back up.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:28 pm

3 from the 200 partnership. come on lads

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:29 pm

This partnership has lasted 52 overs so far.  Shocked 

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:31 pm

jimmy!


unlucky lad. after the break he got really edgy and was half the player.

Oh well

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Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:32 pm

ah shame.  damned fine stand though.

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Post by kingraf on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:33 pm

Yeah, the ECB has been very hesitant
to pick us since they realized
Dernbach was a dud.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:33 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Jerusalem is the unofficial cricket one- but dont need to sing it.

tbh we are very short on saffas at the moment. Just prior that moved here as a child and i have a feeling this could be his last ever test series. So we could with a couple to bring the Ballance back up.

So you don't include Zimbabweans in the count?  Laugh 

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Post by dyrewolfe on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 2:36 pm

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Jimmy Jimmy...what have you done???  Crying or Very sad 

Alas, no glorious test hundred for the valiant James Anderson.

Still an amazing, heroic, herculean, Spartan-like effort from Joe and Jimmy to drag England into a lead.  clap 

Be interesting to see how India respond to this.
dyrewolfe
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