England vs India - Second Test - Lords

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 7:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Seeming as we have such a short turnaround thought I'd stick up a thread

England have added Simon Kerrigan to the squad interestingly. I'd imagine he must be in serious contention, or else what's the point of adding another body?
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Post by GSC on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:15 am

Unless the pitch resembles the amazon
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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:33 am

msp83 wrote:
hampo171 wrote:It surprises me how many are taking this "push" to the extreme. If Jadeja has got up close to Anderson, invading his personal space, then Anderson has every right to create a bit of space between the two. Now I'm not suggesting he pushes him to the floor, but if he were to use his hands to move Jedeja further back then that in no way deserves a ban. Unless this was an aggressive push then I don't see the point of making it such a big deal. Having played sport for long enough things don't get forgotten once you leave the playing field.
The problem is, who determines whether the push was aggressive or not? There is the problem in legitimizing physical contact in the name of sledging.

Well I imagine people who witnessed the incident will give their versions. But there is a fairly obvious difference between a push which causes the recipient to fall over or stagger against the wall (sounds a bit aggressive , no ? ) and one which simply maintains the distance between two chaps who had been facing off and conducting an animated discussion... I have heard no suggestion that Jadeja was in any way damaged by the contact , so I suspect the latter is closer to the truth.
Now this doesn't mean we ought to approve of the whole thing ; but it might be that , while Jadeja was offended by his treatment , and felt that he had a right to complain , the matter could have been settled between the respective captains , players etc ? The fact that it wasn't , despite officials attempting to broker peace , suggests to me that Dhoni is taking the opportunity to make a bit of a point about not being pushed around( in both a literal and and figurative sense).
In a way then , it is tactical , as Cook believes ; though probably not in the cynical "let's see if we can get their best bowler suspended" way.

Not having seen the incident I can't comment on the details of the confrontation ; but those saying Anderson shouldn't have prolonged the matter after leaving the field may care to reflect on why Dhoni had apparently already proceeded to the dressing room , yet Jadeja was still in the corridor when Anderson and the rest of the England team followed them off the field...
Playing club cricket in Australia or many years I have witnessed a few acrimonious incidents on and around the field of play (yes , even been involved in one or two  Smile) . And in my experience , both parties generally deserve some blame for the conflict.
Generally managed to settle things down over a beer later , though. Pity this couldn't work this time.

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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:42 am

guildfordbat wrote:
GSC wrote:Easy decision to bowl first on this pitch, especially with tomorrow due to be roasting.

Huh??

Imo, you set out to bat today and well into tomorrow.

Advice from Cyril Washbrook, Lancs' first professional captain in the 1950s, to David Lloyd when he took on the role twenty years later: "You have two choices on winning the toss. Bat. Or think about it and then bat."

Never mind Washbrook ...I think the good Doctor himself said something similar in the previous century...
Remains generally as true now as then.

Although I think Mike (Is he ever coming back , I wonder ? ) has a view that modern covering and pitch preparation make this a something of a myth in Test Cricket today. I suspect he has a point , too. Although I do not dismiss the psychological effect of putting even a reasonable total on the board first.

With that "a guinea each way" bet , I will leave the decision to Cook or Dhoni  Smile 

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Post by GSC on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:45 am

Both teams unchanged, England win the toss and bowl first
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 10:51 am

Eugh bat first ffs the bowlers are gonna be f*cked

A bit of grass means nothing
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Post by kingraf on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:06 am

I do miss Mike. His essays were the most reading I did during a week
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Post by Liam on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:12 am

Have to pitch the ball up on this pitch. What is it with Broad and Anderson in banging the ball in half way down the pitch? it gives the batsmen time to judge the direction of the swing and leave it alone. Get the batsmen coming forward and that's where you'll take the wickets.

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Post by Liam on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:13 am

What a delivery. Length was much much better. Could be a long (or short) morning for the indians if anderson get's his tail up.

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:16 am

Terrible batting from Dhawan. Ball way outside leg stump. Poor footwork. Clearly didn't watch how Sangakkara batted earlier in the summer...

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:17 am

Good toss to lose for India....great toss to lose and be put into bat which always takes out the pressure of chase and the vagaries of D5 pitch out of the equation.


Now only do not collapse on D1.......get to a 300+ total whihc will be a fighting total for India
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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:20 am

Prior drops another.

Chris Read keeps better in his sleep...

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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:24 am

We will see how it goes later. Extravagant movement early , but this used not to be so uncommon...we have become conditioned to these lifeless tracks like TB so this seems unusual.
First couple of hours will be rough for batting. After lunch ...maybe. Ideally it will settle down a bit and we will have a pitch that promotes both good aggressive bowling and stroke play , and everyone will be happy.

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Post by Liam on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:25 am

Yeh poor from Prior. If he has another poor test match today I'd drop him (i'd have dropped him before the series) and bring in Buttler.

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Post by Scrumpy on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:25 am

But remember Buttler isn't ready says Captain Cook!
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:33 am

Good attacking captaincy by Cook to stick India in, even when taking into account the recent exertions of England's bowlers. I'm not going to blame Prior for dropping what was a very difficult chance, but I will applaud Balance for his superb effort. Lots of early movement; it's so far removed from Nottingham.

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Post by GSC on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:36 am

I did enjoy the suggestion that Ballance should've taken his shirt off and Jimmy push him over.
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:52 am

The pitch has too much movement.......not good to produce balanced cricket.
Too hard for batsmen to put bat to ball
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Post by Liam on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:55 am

This is poor from Cook. These Indian batsmen are not going to be flashing shots through cover when the ball is swinging like it is. Get a gully and a 3rd slip in!

Anderson and Broad too short in their opening spells. Said that before.

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Post by Scrumpy on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 11:57 am

C'mon Cook get these two off both have bowled too short!

He is a weak Captain imo
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Post by Liam on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:01 pm

So frustrating seeing that pitch map. 68% deliveries half way down the pitch, 17% full!! rubbish bowling.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:14 pm

artherton makes a good point about Prior's lack of normal agility when going to or diving to his right.

and he is a fraction late when reacting to catches to his right and hence dropping too many.....

Eng or no side can afford a WK who is limited on one side and drops one or two catches per inning
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:16 pm

Kumar will wreak havoc on this pitch...if the batters have given him a 300+ score to play with
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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:24 pm

England will be disappointed not to have more than the one wicket do far. Probably should have had two ; but as has been said they have also failed to make the batsmen play enough.
Partly the ball has moved around too much; but they have also been a bit too short too often.
Would have liked to see a bat pad in - as Plunkett has now. Makes the one that comes back in more effective.

Still time to do damage before things settle down ; but they'll want to get another break sharpish...

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Post by GSC on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:38 pm

2nd down, Ballance needs to go partying shirtless every week.
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Post by Mat on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:38 pm

Ballance looks an excellent slip fielder. Two good catches now this morning.

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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:41 pm

Mat wrote:Ballance looks an excellent slip fielder. Two good catches now this morning.

Good to see. An area in which England have suffered recently , what with losing Collingwood , Strauss and Swann from the cordon...if he can nail a spot down that will be a very handy addition to his contributions with the bat.

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:48 pm

Liam Plunkett is very similar to Mitchell Starc, he's got very little control and leaks runs at a vast rate. When it all clicks he can be destructive. But those days are few and fair between.

Maybe on a pitch like this Chris Woakes would've been the better selection.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:54 pm

Not bowled straight enough either. If India go in 2 down, then they will have taken the first session.

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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 12:57 pm

Might have been inclined to have Woakes for Stokes here.

But I guess they weren't sure how the pitch would actually behave , however green it looked . And didn't want to mess Stokes around on his return from injury.

India's session unless something happens in the last few minutes.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:02 pm

Prior drops another catch....in an out of the gloves....it's getting hilarious
and Ali will get blamed for not picking wickets
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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:04 pm

Defended Prior at the start of the Sri Lankan series. However his keeping has gone down the toilet and wither its injury or not, I can't see how the selectors can continue with him much longer.

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Post by GSC on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:08 pm

You wonder whether a Foster or Read might get drafted in if Buttler isn't ready
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Post by Scrumpy on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:11 pm

This team is broken, senior players now know that poor performance after poor performance will not mean that their place is under threat.
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:56 pm

everytime he picks up a wicket or a near wicket.....cook doesn't give Mooen ali anotehr over  Sad 

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:59 pm

Kohli was living "flashy"....him and Dhawan haven't fired....3 innings in a row and that's beginning to be a concern
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 1:59 pm

Huzzah prior caught one!!!
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:05 pm

On replays it was just good bowling by naderson...nothing much kohli could have done.

Pitch is too much in bowlers favour and we need to get to about 300........someone should score a run a ball 70 odd to get us there......ain't the type of pitch where grafting alone will help...because the pitch keeps doing something all the time
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Post by Liam on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:10 pm

I'd prefer to see this pitch over the trent bridge pitch every day of the week. Ball is coming onto the bat nicely so there are runs there for the batsmen if they can just get in.

England are still bowling too short. Its so frustrating to watch as it seems only them and the management think its a good idea. Pitch it up, the ball will swing and will bring the drive from the batsmen. Simple really.

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Post by kingraf on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:16 pm

This pitch looks green. I mean really green. Will it crack?

Prior having a nightmare behind the stumps. I thought South African keepers only struggle in England on their first tour? He's only been there for over a decade.
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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:19 pm

Liam wrote:I'd prefer to see this pitch over the trent bridge pitch every day of the week. Ball is coming onto the bat nicely so there are runs there for the batsmen if they can just get in.

England are still bowling too short. Its so frustrating to watch as it seems only them and the management think its a good idea. Pitch it up, the ball will swing and will bring the drive from the batsmen. Simple really.

Certainly prefer this to TB ...not sure batsmen will be getting runs that easily , even if they do get "in". Ball will probably do a bit for a while yet.
Think Jimmy has been generally on the money since lunch : Broad still a bit too short and not enough on target for mine.
Glad to see Cook not overbowling Anderson though. Stokes on now ; and this is where they need the backup bowlers to get it right and keep the pressure on. Another wicket now and this innings might still be curtailed early. First few Stokes deliveries bit too short and wide ...but the last one was a good un ! Keep that up and he might do the trick...

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Post by msp83 on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:21 pm

The Kohli wicket right after lunch was a massive one. Pujara hasn't got going as yet, and its MSD, Jadeja and Binny at 6 7 and 8...... At 95-3, Indians haven't gone too far.
England in charge.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:26 pm

rahane..technically the straightest bat not just in India...but probably in the world....

when the pitch gets green and seaming such as in Mohali and Dharamsala and Punjab on seaming wintery mornings.......this guy gets straighter and in a zone.

the man for difficult conditions
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:32 pm

there is anderson...then there is a small vaccum..then there is broad...then there is a big vaccum an then there are remaining seamers jordan, stoke plunket etal

be careful not to lose a wicket to Anderson.....he can't bowl more than 15-18 intense overs in a day.......and half the battle is won......and maybe one more test then he is out for the rest of series Wink
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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:38 pm

msp83 wrote:The Kohli wicket right after lunch was a massive one. Pujara hasn't got going as yet, and its MSD, Jadeja and Binny at 6 7 and 8...... At 95-3, Indians haven't gone too far.
England in charge.

Can't agree there , msp. Despite a lot of early seam movement , only three wickets taken ...and apart from Anderson the England bowlers don't look too threatening. Things can change with a couple of wickets , of course ; but I reckon India look set for a decent first innings here.
Pujara very slow ; but he is still there , and if he gets a hundred no one will complain about his slow progress ths morning.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:43 pm

msp83 wrote:The Kohli wicket right after lunch was a massive one. Pujara hasn't got going as yet, and its MSD, Jadeja and Binny at 6 7 and 8...... At 95-3, Indians haven't gone too far.
England in charge.

wait till you see bhuvi ball...if he finds the same rythm as he did in T1.....he will cause havoc.
This was the pitch for Pankaj singh and you know Sandeep sharma would have done great.
Binny should be able to show his allround skills in this game also
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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:49 pm

the problem is no one is getting even into 30s....we need 300 some how any how....the tail has started as dhoni arrives Wink...and the next 4 need to wag
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Post by msp83 on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:51 pm

Don't see MS lasting too long here on this track. So while he's there, he should play his shots.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:52 pm

msp83 wrote:Don't see MS lasting too long here on this track. So while he's there, he should play his shots.

he gets 35 odd and he would have done his job......even those who lasted couldnpt cross the 20s
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Post by alfie on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:56 pm

Much needed wicket for England. Good bowling from Stokes.

Incidentally , contrary to pundits' assertions , all four wickets have fallen to balls on a "good" rather than full length. Suggests the accusations of too short bowling , while justified to a point , are perhaps a little overdone. Yes, the bowlers have got it wrong too often ; but perhaps more through less than perfect execution than sheer bloody minded bad planning ? Hitting the perfect length all the time , even for Test players , isn't quite as easy as it looks...just as well for batsmen  Smile 

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Post by Gerry SA on Thu 17 Jul 2014, 2:56 pm

India close to being out of the Test match prior to Tea on D1.

Anything under 250(working total IMO) and their will be no pressure on the English batsmen.

300 would be an excellent total on this surface for India, but barring a miracle India aren't getting anyway near that figure.

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