England vs India - Second Test - Lords

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 13 Jul 2014, 7:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Seeming as we have such a short turnaround thought I'd stick up a thread

England have added Simon Kerrigan to the squad interestingly. I'd imagine he must be in serious contention, or else what's the point of adding another body?
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Post by Mike Selig on Tue 22 Jul 2014, 2:48 pm

I understand the calls for Read to play. England are in need of experience and leadership (what I would call the Rogers role) and there is a feeling that Read would provide this. There is also a feeling that Buttler, whilst obviously heir apparent is not quite ready for test cricket.

Both of these are fair points. If there was anybody out there who could average say 30, then I'd be all for that. I just can't see Read achieving that. I've watched a fair amount of him in county cricket and I don't think he is significantly a better player than when he last had a go at test cricket. There are just too many issues technically there which will be exploited by the better and quicker bowlers.

It is a bit different for a bowler to make these kind of adjustments, and of course Plunkett was I think a fair bit younger than Read.

I don't see how England can do anything but pick Buttler TBH. You can't call him up as Prior's (potential) replacement, and then change your mind a few days later.

Other than that it is hard to disagree with much or anything of alfie's excellent post. I am decidedly glad that I'm not the only one who thought the commentators decided on the narrative early on and tried to make the facts fit it.

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 22 Jul 2014, 3:10 pm

My call for Read was really at the start of the summer. I feel his boat has sailed now and it realistically is Buttler time.

Taking of which, Pietersen's boat has also sailed or rather his plane has flown to the Caribbean where he's now playing t20 between jetting back for Surrey's t20 games. He certainly won't be playing any 4 day cricket which has to further rule him out of Test contention. All this from a man who quit Hampshire CCC on the grounds that the commute from his London home was too far!

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Post by jimbohammers on Tue 22 Jul 2014, 3:41 pm

Will be interesting if Buttler does get the nod, after Cook has said he isn't ready....

Wouldn't mind Read or Foster filling in. Both have safe hands and both are captains, which could really help Cook?

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Post by GSC on Tue 22 Jul 2014, 3:42 pm

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Post by Scrumpy on Tue 22 Jul 2014, 3:50 pm

Well done Jos,

Just goes to show that its not how well you play but who you play for, he wouldn't have got the nod if he had stayed at Somerset as the selectors only pick from certain Counties these days.
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Post by msp83 on Tue 22 Jul 2014, 4:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:
invisiblecoolers wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I think England will still win this series. The corner will gradually be turned, and I think it'll be a 2-1 win to the home side.

At odds of at least 4/1 to win the series, I think it's fair game for a lump on.

I don't think we should make any changes, unless Broad is injured, of course, in which case Jordan should come back in.

Victory will manifest itself out of preserverance, by perfect discipline and just that ounce of luck which has certainly been lacking.

 laughing 

I know you are a die hard supporter of all English sports, the fact is the current English team is a below average team and so is Indian team.

I would put it this way an average team beat an below average team, expecting the below average team to win 4-1 and citing unluck as the reason for loss is taking way too far.

When was the last time you saw an Indian team [let alone an ordinary Indian team] come with so much so much confident of winning an overseas test series?  Laugh 

If 2-1 for England is your prediction get ready for series shocks ahead, certainly won't happen [I even doubt England would win a match and the winless streak to continue to record heights].  Hug 

Ah yes, I remember in 2011 I predicted England to win by the two test or more margin which would mean becoming number one. I was laughed at, but proved right.

And in the autumn of 2012 against India my pre-series prediction was 2-1 England. I was laughed at, even more so after the first Test, but I was proved right.

I think I'll be proved right once more. England will turn a corner very soon, India don't have such a high ceiling of potential.
Those days Alastair Cook could bat, and there was a certain disruptive element churning out the runs by the truck load in 2011, and then an incredible match turning innings in 2012 that changed the course of the series.
Lets see whether Cook can rediscover his touch, and whether Ian Bell or someone else step up to produce the kind of special performances of the discarded 'Disruptive element'.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 22 Jul 2014, 6:52 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Look away, Alfie.

"He's at the moment I think the best wicket keeper batsman in the country" - Alastair Cook this afternoon talking about Matt Prior.

Do we need any more evidence as to how out of touch the selectors and their captain are?

The thing which worries me most on Prior Guildford isn't that statement, its that according to Prior he tore his quad in the first test and yet the selectors still picked him for the second test!

That is not only a completely bonkers selection, its also seriously risking a players health and really is a dereliction of duty.
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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 22 Jul 2014, 9:03 pm

Olly - further injury was always on the cards for Prior when he was picked for the first Test against Sri Lanka having before then been fit enough to keep in only one CC match this season; a season in which the opening 6 or 7 weeks were meant to provide valuable pointers for Test selection.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 23 Jul 2014, 1:10 pm

Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Look away, Alfie.

"He's at the moment I think the best wicket keeper batsman in the country" - Alastair Cook this afternoon talking about Matt Prior.

Do we need any more evidence as to how out of touch the selectors and their captain are?

The thing which worries me most on Prior Guildford isn't that statement, its that according to Prior he tore his quad in the first test and yet the selectors still picked him for the second test!

That is not only a completely bonkers selection, its also seriously risking a players health and really is a dereliction of duty.


I couldn't believe what I was reading when I saw that. Its one thing to back your team mates, or at least not publicly criticise them, but if Cookie really thinks that, I think its just another indication that he really needs to get away from Test cricket for a while.
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Post by invisiblecoolers on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 1:59 am

Duty281 wrote:
invisiblecoolers wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I think England will still win this series. The corner will gradually be turned, and I think it'll be a 2-1 win to the home side.

At odds of at least 4/1 to win the series, I think it's fair game for a lump on.

I don't think we should make any changes, unless Broad is injured, of course, in which case Jordan should come back in.

Victory will manifest itself out of preserverance, by perfect discipline and just that ounce of luck which has certainly been lacking.

 laughing 

I know you are a die hard supporter of all English sports, the fact is the current English team is a below average team and so is Indian team.

I would put it this way an average team beat an below average team, expecting the below average team to win 4-1 and citing unluck as the reason for loss is taking way too far.

When was the last time you saw an Indian team [let alone an ordinary Indian team] come with so much so much confident of winning an overseas test series?  Laugh 

If 2-1 for England is your prediction get ready for series shocks ahead, certainly won't happen [I even doubt England would win a match and the winless streak to continue to record heights].  Hug 

Ah yes, I remember in 2011 I predicted England to win by the two test or more margin which would mean becoming number one. I was laughed at, but proved right.

And in the autumn of 2012 against India my pre-series prediction was 2-1 England. I was laughed at, even more so after the first Test, but I was proved right.

I think I'll be proved right once more. England will turn a corner very soon, India don't have such a high ceiling of potential.

Good well done on your predictions  clap but those are past and you have to come down to present, this English squad is an ordinary squad to turn the results like past, but yes they are against another ordinary side but their opponents are still better than the home compatriots.

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Post by ShankyCricket on Thu 24 Jul 2014, 6:05 pm

Hello everyone! Gutted to have not been around to post on the day of the victory (I'm having problems posting on my mobile) and my computer wasn't working.

WHAT A WIN! A win away from home after nearly 1500 days, very special indeed. More so that it was at the venue where it all began to haywire 3 years ago. Hope this is the beginning of a new era although I don't understand all the English negativity. This series is still wide open and England could well come out on top in the end.

Rahane played simply one of the best innings I've ever seen from an Indian batsman in Tests and certainly the best by a mile since VVS and SRT's efforts at Durban and Cape Town respectively in 2010/11.. If you thought that wasn't enough, Vijay followed it up with what I thought was the second best knock by an Indian since that SA tour. Jadeja lived by the sword and played a game changing innings. And Bhuvi was simply phenomenal..
And last but not the least, Ishant Sharma. Take a bow! I've given you a lot of hard time on the internet but you deserve this moment. Terrific performance... I just hope this is not another false dawn though.


Come on Team India! Lets return with a series win... COME ON BOYS

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Post by invisiblecoolers on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 4:53 am

ShankyCricket wrote:Hello everyone! Gutted to have not been around to post on the day of the victory (I'm having problems posting on my mobile) and my computer wasn't working.

WHAT A WIN! A win away from home after nearly 1500 days, very special indeed. More so that it was at the venue where it all began to haywire 3 years ago. Hope this is the beginning of a new era although I don't understand all the English negativity. This series is still wide open and England could well come out on top in the end.

Rahane played simply one of the best innings I've ever seen from an Indian batsman in Tests and certainly the best by a mile since VVS and SRT's efforts at Durban and Cape Town respectively in 2010/11.. If you thought that wasn't enough, Vijay followed it up with what I thought was the second best knock by an Indian since that SA tour. Jadeja lived by the sword and played a game changing innings. And Bhuvi was simply phenomenal..
And last but not the least, Ishant Sharma. Take a bow! I've given you a lot of hard time on the internet but you deserve this moment. Terrific performance... I just hope this is not another false dawn though.


Come on Team India! Lets return with a series win... COME ON BOYS

A series win in England will be the final nail in Cook's captaincy coffin, will English selectors have the guts to retain Cook like how Aussies did with Clarke after serious series defeats vs England and India? or say like Indian selectors no mind whether Dhoni wins or lose Test series he will be the evergreen captain but thats actually paying dividends.  Very Happy 

It would be plain awesome if both the coach and the captain are sacked and selectors bring back KP and that too as captain  Yahoo 

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Post by GSC on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 10:39 am

Jadeja fined 50% of his match fee, not enough evidence to suggest a match ban merited.
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 10:50 am

"It would be plain awesome if both the coach and the captain are sacked and selectors bring back KP and that too as captain Yahoo"

thats nuts pal and certainly not what is needed. I couldnt think of anything worse.

just build a new team- play all the youngsters, they will get better every test if we back them.

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Post by KP_fan on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 11:24 am

Jadeja is fined.....implies Anderson will be fined more severely.....but leniently compared to original charge.
he will probably get 1 test ban
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Post by KP_fan on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 11:37 am

invisiblecoolers wrote:

It would be plain awesome if both the coach and the captain are sacked and selectors bring back KP and that too as captain  Yahoo 

It is a likely scenario...and I have stated this before.....

Downton has gone on a limb holding on to Cook inspite the series of not just defeats but embarrassing debacles.

because Cook represents the "nose" of Downton as he publicly shunned KP:

So if Cook goes.......Moores and Downton might go with him....and the next regime of captain / coach will bring in KP...for one more Ashes and the Wordlcup
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 12:08 pm

How is it a likely scenario when KP hasnt played first class cricket for a while?

And Anderson can't be banned for one test; it would be between two and four.

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Post by GSC on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 12:10 pm

They can downgrade the charge (and did for Jadeja)

If there isn't enough evidence to ban him, logically the same applies to Anderson
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Post by msp83 on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 1:58 pm

GSC wrote:They can downgrade the charge (and did for Jadeja)

If there isn't enough evidence to ban him, logically the same applies to Anderson
Not enough evidence against Jadeja doesn't automatically mean the same for Anderson. But perhaps the boardroom pals have reached an understanding between and Giles and his best mate Srini have decided to fix up the whole thing.......

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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 2:02 pm

They should just drop all charges and tell them to shake hands in the Rose Bowl carpark.

(note: I refuse to call grounds by sponsor's names. I can't keep up with them and my Latin is not as good as it used to be)
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 2:37 pm

Fantastic username change LB
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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 2:54 pm

Olly wrote:Fantastic username change LB

Ta Olly.
Just felt like a change. It's the title of a 1901 short story by Henry Lawson.
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Post by GSC on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 2:55 pm

Its also a popular pub in Leicester
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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 2:58 pm

GSC wrote:Its also a popular pub in Leicester

Great name for a pub!
And also the name of a local brew here.
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Post by KP_fan on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 4:36 pm

anderson will be downgraded to level-2 and handed a 1 test ban.... in a typical "all is preset srinivasan styled negotiations" and the match refree will only read the script.
anything less and Indians would not let it go.
Eng will be made to feel happy....-it could have been much worse 4 test ban.
One test ban will be like a rest on a spin friendly pitch anyway ( T4 in Manchester I believe)

also a part of the negotiated deal was to move back hearing so Eng do not miss their best seamer on a seaming rose bowl
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Post by ChequeredJersey on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 5:51 pm

Anderson's Knackered the rest could be what he needs
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Post by mystiroakey on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 6:30 pm

good stuff- only a one match ban.

not sure if it was deserved- even if it was an intentional 'touch'.... 

men confront the issue's man to man, shake hands and move on.

I hate grasses.

3-1 to England... come on england.

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Post by msp83 on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 6:40 pm

The kind of stuff they mouth off these days on a cricket field would certainly give you a broken arm anywhere else. Time the nonsense is controlled a bit at least. Anderson has been at his best behavior in a long time during the 2nd test.

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Post by alfie on Sat 26 Jul 2014, 12:28 pm

mystiroakey wrote:good stuff- only a one match ban.

not sure if it was deserved- even if it was an intentional 'touch'.... 

men confront the issue's man to man, shake hands and move on.

I hate grasses.

3-1 to England... come on england.

Eh ?

Thought the hearing was due on 1st August ... Has something changed or is this just KP.f rattling on again ?
Downgrading the charges makes sense but I don't see why Anderson should be suspended if there is no clear evidence he has done anything more than protect his personal space.

Not to prejudge it ; though I see some Indian fans seem relaxed enough about doing so  Smile 

Seriously ; the whole thing could have been done without . But although Jimmy is always fond of a chirp I really dont see Jadeja as some fragile flower who feared for his life : whatever went on I imagine he gave as good as he got.Verbally , I mean. Seems a pity all this legal stuff ever got started.

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Post by Mike Selig on Sat 26 Jul 2014, 2:46 pm

KPF has predicted a 1 match ban on the basis that India won't settle for anything less. This seems a strange model of justice if you ask me, but there you go. This is cricket we are talking about, so I guess the concept of due process got lost about when the imperial cricket conference was founded.

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Post by mystiroakey on Sat 26 Jul 2014, 2:57 pm

oh right I must have miss understood it

So Jimmy will playing whatever happens tomorrow.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 26 Jul 2014, 7:56 pm

So we have one side's account of the Anderson saga here. India skipper Mahendra Singh Dhoni suggested that a lot of things got ignored in punishing Ravindra Jadeja. And he hinted the BCCI and their legal department are looking into the matter.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/current/story/764303.html

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Post by alfie on Sat 26 Jul 2014, 8:18 pm

Well that's all we need - lawyers at twenty paces  picard 

All this stuff could end up backfiring on India if they obsess too much about it. Can't we just get on with the cricket ?

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Post by msp83 on Sat 26 Jul 2014, 8:23 pm

If they had got on with the cricket in the first place, nothing of this would have happened!.

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Post by Liam on Sat 26 Jul 2014, 11:00 pm

Think players these days need to man up. Its a push for goodness sake. As Bumble says: "GET ON WITH THE GAME!!". Load of nonsense if you ask me.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 26 Jul 2014, 11:13 pm

Dhoni is not happy at Jadeja being fined.......he is obviously convinced that Jadeja was at no fault at all....because he saw it all from close.

Dhoni's credibility is high when he says something.....and given that he doesn't speak much..these are very very strong words.

and immediately BCCI has protested against ICC....I dunno how to infer that....BCCI runs ICC.
and when his boys are so hurt........that guy Srinivas running BCCI and ICC better moves his back and pulls all the strings he needs to to ensure Anderson gets a fair punishment if indeed there is evidence......else he will ,lose credibility and hold on BCCI and hence ICC
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