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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 7:26 pm



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28374457 wrote:
People in the UK who persistently pirate music and movies will soon start getting emails warning them that their actions are illegal.

The warnings are part of a larger scheme that aims to educate people about copyright and legal ways to enjoy digital content.

Starting next year, up to four warnings annually will be sent to households suspected of copyright infringement.

But if people ignore the warnings, no further action will be taken.

The warning system is the result of four years' wrangling between internet service providers (ISPs) and industry bodies representing music and movie-makers.

The original enforcement regime was outlined in the Digital Economy Act 2010 and called for persistent pirates to have their net access cut off after a series of warnings.

'Difficult to protect'
In addition, rights holders wanted warning letters to mention the potential penalties people would face for copyright infringement and access to a database of known illegal file-sharers.

The years of talks brokered by the government have led to the creation of the Voluntary Copyright Alert Programme (Vcap) that uses warnings via email or post.

The UK's biggest ISPs - BT, TalkTalk, Virgin and Sky - have signed up to Vcap. Many smaller ISPs are expected to join later.

In addition, the UK government has pledged to contribute £3.5m to an education campaign that will promote legal ways to listen to music and watch movies.

Introducing the three-year educational scheme, Business Secretary Vince Cable said the initiative was all about supporting the UK's creative industries.

"It's a difficult industry to pin down and it's also difficult to protect," he said. "But unless you protect it then it's an industry that cannot function."

'Persuading the persuadable'
Government estimates suggest the UK's creative industries contribute £71bn to the UK economy and support about 1.68 million jobs.

Geoff Taylor, chief executive of the BPI, said it had been a "long road" to produce the Vcap agreement. He said that though it lacked punitive action it could still help bring about change in people's habits.

"It's about persuading the persuadable, such as parents who do not know what is going on with their net connection," he said.

"Vcap is not about denying access to the internet. It's about changing attitudes and raising awareness so people can make the right choice," he said.

As well as taking part in Vcap, the BPI and other rights holders were working on other fronts to tackle persistent pirates, file-sharing sites and to suppress the economy that supported them, said Mr Taylor.

These initiatives included issuing notices to Google about links to pirated content, action in the courts to shut down websites that offer links to infringing content, and working with advertisers to limit the funds that flow to file-sharing sites.

Seriously, what's the point? Your going to create a load more work for some department somewhere all for the sake of sending a few emails and then doing nothing? At least slow down the internet speed or something.

I'm not a massive fan of the intrustion of governments checking on everything we do but if you get caught in large scale piracy (IE downloading a load of new films/songs) then you deserve what you get.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 7:56 pm

So this action is unenforceable, just like the TV License fee?

And I'm sure the majority of people who do pirate don't need educating on the subject - they know damn well it's illegal!

Internet piracy is a a difficult one to tackle, though. ISP bans and clamping down with imprisonment or large fines is probably the only way. Little point in shutting down torrent sites; you shut one down, three or four more spring up.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 8:39 pm

Prisons are already overflowing, We don't need to CREATE a whole bunch of new prisoners because they watched a few films online.

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 8:42 pm

So you agree then CS that another government department should be created to send a bunch of emails to people that mean absolutely nothing???

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:05 pm

Derbymanc wrote:So you agree then CS that another government department should be created to send a bunch of emails to people that mean absolutely nothing???

If there were just 2 options, the first being sending out emails and the second being sending to prison then of course I would opt for the emails.

Personally I don't think the viewer should be punished as they have committed no crime and nor do I think it should be a crime for someone to watch a fiilm or a sporting event online via streaming.

The argument that internet providers should ban users who stream movies will never work. Why would a company (BT, Virgin etc) voluntarily lose customers by banning them in order for a different company (Warner bros etc) to make more profit?


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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:11 pm

Fair do's, although your first comment was hyperbole at it's best.

I'm not a great believer in massive punishments for the occasional pirate especially as a lot is probably done by kids with parents not knowing. BUT if it continues to happen and in vast quantitys (I'm not on about the odd song here and there but a continuous stream of downloading) Then you should be put on a banned list and have the internet withdrawn for a certain amount of time (Bit like what they do with small time hackers).

If you find a big operation then yup, prison sentences abound.

Just remember the next time your favourite game/comic/film series/tv series gets cancelled or your band is dropped from it's lable, part of that is due to pirating.

(Streaming is a different discussion as some things aren't available everywhere, if it is then you should be paying.)

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:25 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Fair do's, although your first comment was hyperbole at it's best.

I'm not a great believer in massive punishments for the occasional pirate especially as a lot is probably done by kids with parents not knowing. BUT if it continues to happen and in vast quantitys (I'm not on about the odd song here and there but a continuous stream of downloading) Then you should be put on a banned list and have the internet withdrawn for a certain amount of time (Bit like what they do with small time hackers).

If you find a big operation then yup, prison sentences abound.

Just remember the next time your favourite game/comic/film series/tv series gets cancelled or your band is dropped from it's lable, part of that is due to pirating.

(Streaming is a different discussion as some things aren't available everywhere, if it is then you should be paying.)

What offence is someone committing by watching 100 films online via streaming from certain websites?

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:35 pm

Piracy,

It costs a lot of money to produce, make and distribute a film, if everybody decided sod it we'll watch it for free then eventually movies stop getting made.

Sports the same, Footballers/Boxers etc etc get paid a certain amount with money made through gate reciepts and tv rights, if everybody decided to stream them for free then what would be the point of Sky etc paying tv rights, The athletes can't be paid enough, the standards drop and we're talking (especially with boxing) why certain fights can't be made.

Common sense really.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:37 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Piracy,

It costs a lot of money to produce, make and distribute a film, if everybody decided sod it we'll watch it for free then eventually movies stop getting made.

Sports the same, Footballers/Boxers etc etc get paid a certain amount with money made through gate reciepts and tv rights, if everybody decided to stream them for free then what would be the point of Sky etc paying tv rights, The athletes can't be paid enough, the standards drop and we're talking (especially with boxing) why certain fights can't be made.

Common sense really.

What law states that it is illegal for me to stream movies online? What is the name of the Act?

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:41 pm

Depends where your streaming them from, plus i'm not about to go trundling through reams and reams of statures.

It comes under Piracy although streaming things is a bit of a grey area unless your doing it through a site that is clearly illegal (ie the pirate bay) and has been blocked by a country.

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:46 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/jun/26/ofcom-outlines-anti-piracy-rules

http://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/blog/uk-internet-service-providers-are-blocking-streaming-sites

http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/types-of-content-theft/

As I said a bit of a grey area but I think the legislation is more to try and stop people DOWNLOADING rather than streaming.

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:50 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Depends where your streaming them from, plus i'm not about to go trundling through reams and reams of statures.

It comes under Piracy although streaming things is a bit of a grey area unless your doing it through a site that is clearly illegal (ie the pirate bay) and has been blocked by a country.

For something to be illegal it has to be against the law and if the law doesn't say it is illegal then it is not. There is a piece of law from 1988 regarding copyright but as far as I am aware no one has ever been convicted under that Act for streaming because streaming is seen as temporary and therefore not copying under that piece of law.

In my view there is nothing wrong with the person who is watching the films or shows via a stream. There are plenty of websites where millions of people watch streams eg Youtube.... If I go on youtube and want to watch Trigger Happy TV I do not expect to suddenly get arrested for breaking the law. The same can be said if I listen to the radio and listen to a song, I don't expect to be breaking the law.

The law refers to copyright with the emphasis on copy. If you watch something on youtube which is on there illegally it is youtube who has the responsibility to take it down - it is not the viewer who is doing anything illegal.

If you listen to music on the radio and the radiostation is not paying the fees it should be then it is the radio station who is acting illegally, not the listener.




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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 9:57 pm

As I said CS it's a bit of a grey area and the article is concentrating on DOWNLOADING.

Streaming is a difficult concept for them to sort out, I know there was a case in Germany where youtube was ordered in charge of what was on their website http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/media/news/a377635/youtube-loses-court-battle-in-germany-over-music-videos.html#~oKv4fnMcv9WgvM,

Streaming is a different thing and I believe we're not to discuss it on here so if we just stick to the downloading part CS

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Post by Champagne_Socialist on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:07 pm

Derbymanc wrote:As I said CS it's a bit of a grey area and the article is concentrating on DOWNLOADING.

Streaming is a difficult concept for them to sort out, I know there was a case in Germany where youtube was ordered in charge of what was on their website http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/media/news/a377635/youtube-loses-court-battle-in-germany-over-music-videos.html#~oKv4fnMcv9WgvM,

Streaming is a different thing and I believe we're not to discuss it on here so if we just stick to the downloading part CS

I though streaming and downloading were linked. People only tend to download music whilst they tend to stream movies/tv shows.

In terms of downloading then I don't really know what to say regarding punishment. I don't buy into this idea that the music/film industry will stop making films because of downloading because the film industry has posted record profits at a time when downloading is at a record high.

Here's where the root of the issue lies. If I want to go to the cinema with my wife and 3 kids I would be looking at £60 plus for that trip if you include travel costs, food costs and ticket prices. I then have to sit an an environment where people talk, eat loudly, stand up in front of me etc. That is the reason why many people turn to streaming/downloading for films.

If the film industry stopped paying Tom Cruise £29 million a year and lowered its prices then I am sure more people would go.

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:14 pm

They're kind of linked CS but downloading basically gives you a copy of something (as you mentioned above, that's what companies think is the worse.)

While the big movie studios's won't shut down it can be a bane for smaller labels/companies. http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/YannSeznec/20130820/198453/Gentlemen_Or_how_our_most_successful_game_is_also_our_least_profitable.php

That link above shows the real problem (take the big companies out of it, it's the smaller ones that need the help) and really any loss of sales can lead to things being cancelled.


Oh and this one made me laugh
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-29-game-dev-tycoon-forces-those-who-pirate-the-game-to-unwittingly-fail-from-piracy

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:28 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Depends where your streaming them from, plus i'm not about to go trundling through reams and reams of statures.

It comes under Piracy although streaming things is a bit of a grey area unless your doing it through a site that is clearly illegal (ie the pirate bay) and has been blocked by a country.

I think there's a copyright act from the eighties, plus a recent digital economy act which cover filesharing/downloading and its illegality. Probably needs to be updated further though!

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:34 pm

I think it's streaming that is the major grey area duty. I know the person hosting the stream can be done over copyright but people watching it I'm not sure about.

The major governments/companies don't really know how to deal with it (tip: fining 12 year olds thousands of dollars ain't the way.) and don't seem to be that interested in looking at ways to do it.

It doesn't help them though when an actor/artist that earns millions a year is moaning about a kid that couldn't afford a CD. They need to go after the proper pirates instead and at worst (especially where it's youngsters) fine the offender the cost of what they've downloaded.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:39 pm

That's exactly why the law needs to be updated!

Of course, such a law would probably need to be global to be enforced, which is difficult enough in itself for obvious reasons.

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 19 Jul 2014, 10:41 pm

Spot on Duty,

The issue I have with the article though is really what's the point in sending emails that people don't actually have to act on???

Seems like a way to waste money that we haven't got.

Thinking of the government, every once in a while I come across this and it makes me laugh each time.
http://poorlydrawnlines.com/comic/lies/

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