England v India 3rd Test, Ageas Bowl

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Post by msp83 on Fri 25 Jul 2014, 3:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

Lets get in the thread early enough.
India 1-0 up and now is the time to keep up the leel of intensity.
For England a few careers might depend on a quick turnaround in fortune here.
The pitch is reported to have some green on it and is expected to be in between the ugly pathetic track for the Trent Bridge and a lively track for the 2nd test at the HQ.
Not many reports on the England xi, but there are indications that Stuart Binny will be out for India, and by reports coming in now, its Rohit Sharma who might come in.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:20 pm

And Bell gets away with an LBW call.
Luck going mostly England's way so far.

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Post by Mike Selig on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:21 pm

Pankaj with a couple of astonishing cutters to Ian Bell. First one pitched leg and would have (according to Hawk-eye) hit middle, amazing amount of movement!

Unlucky not to get Ian Bell out, although to be fair to Rod Tucker it was such an unusual delivery that might have thrown him.

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Post by DP on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:32 pm

Cracking knock by Ballance, really like him. Gutsy but can up the rate when needed.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:33 pm

Every time Ballance doesn't celebrate a landmark by taking his top off a little bit of me dies inside
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Post by Mike Selig on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:35 pm

Ballance does go to 100. Continues to look the part at number 3, another sign that technique isn't everything.

India have been a bit loose at times with the new ball. Bowled some crackers, but a few bad balls as well. Still need to be patient and bowl good areas rather than looking for the magic ball all the time.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:35 pm

MS should get Shami off and bring Kumar back on. Bhuvneshwar is at his best with the new ball. Shami hasn't looked on top of his game throughout the series. The pace isn't there and he's not been consistent enough with his line either.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:39 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Ballance does go to 100. Continues to look the part at number 3, another sign that technique isn't everything.

India have been a bit loose at times with the new ball. Bowled some crackers, but a few bad balls as well. Still need to be patient and bowl good areas rather than looking for the magic ball all the time.
You can understand Pankaj trying to go for the magic ball more often than not. He should have had Cook early and was let down by his fielder, then he should have had Bell early in his innings and the umpire let him down. The guy is 29, was continuously ignored by the selectors despite consistently producing the goods at domestic level, and when he eventually got selected in a situation that the man himself considered a now or never one, nothing is going for him despite all the effort. Got to feel for Pankaj here.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:54 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Ballance does go to 100. Continues to look the part at number 3, another sign that technique isn't everything.

.
You trying to take the nick?

Ballance has looked decent against Sri Lanka and India. Two teams hardly brimming with world class fast bowlers. Not disrespect to either teams bowlers mind you.

Ballance looked absolutely village in the Sydney Test, up against serious Test bowlers.

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Post by msp83 on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 5:55 pm

Penultimate over of the day by the look of things, and England are well placed at 247-2. The only consolation for India is that England haven't managed to run away with the score. They are 247-2 at the moment, and if the morning session produce a couple of early wickets, then India can still make a come back of sorts.

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Post by Gerry SA on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 6:00 pm

Ian Bell must be licking his lips to bag some easy runs tomorrow.

He must've bunged umpire Tucker a few quid not to give him out LBW to Singh.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 6:03 pm

England's day, and a pleasant one for Cook. clap

A need to up the scoring rate will arise for England tomorrow if they wish to put India on the back foot, otherwise a couple of quick wickets will put the visitors firmly back in the hunt.

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Post by Mike Selig on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 6:14 pm

It's been a strangely flat performance by India. I would have thought that with the 1-0 lead they would be raring to go, but apart from 25 minutes after lunch and the first couple of overs with the new ball they've really lacked energy and vitality. At times it's looked like they've been going through the motions.

Jadeja did a good holding job. Whether he (or his captain) should have looked to do a bit more remains to be seen, but he bowled a very disciplined line without any loose stuff at all really (that dreadful early long-hop notwithstanding).

I thought Pankaj tired visibly later on which surprised me. He seems a bit of an old-fashioned cricketer - doesn't really field, fitness levels dodgy. Clearly has potential, those two cutters with the new ball were astonishing, but at 29 it may be a bit late for him to develop into an international cricketer.

Shami looks to me like he's struggling with his action. Not at all smooth, seems to be very "staccato". Wasn't really consistent enough.

Kumar bowled OK, but was a bit symptomatic of the flatness around him.

Not sure the pitch is as flat as all that easy to bat on. The odd ball has done something throughout the day. Consensus seems to be it's getting quicker which will help England.

Pleased for Cook obviously. He looked increasingly comfortable until he reached the 90s, then got a bit nervous. Ballance played well. Bell also looked nervous, but will come back fresh tomorrow.

I wonder whether England were a bit too passive as well. They probably had a chance in the last half hour or so to really push on a bit, could have got 270 or so given how flat India looked, but they seemed content to play for the close. I think they're going to have to accelerate a bit tomorrow - doesn't look like the type of pitch which you're going to blow a team away on.

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Post by KP_fan on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 8:25 pm

D1 observations

--so what's England's objective to play this test match ??

commonsense says...it should be to win the test.....and sq uare the series

--the entire establishment ( i.e ECB, media, commentators and the conditoned fans) appear to see the primary objective---" breathe some more life into Cook and somehow survive him as a captain"

--And so the pitch is again been flattened...a little more moisture...and  grass a few millimeters taller would have enhanced the chance of a result.
But that increases the chance of Cook failing and a Lords like result also likely ...so play safe and make it easier for batsmen to score runs is the strategy.
who would have thought.......England wary of English conditions in England Smile and that too against India.

--and from the position Eng were in at mid-day...a team looking to square the series would have pushed towards 300+...instead they were content to crawl to 250-(minus)....... as Cook limped and inched towards a hundred.

--and it's understandable many in English establishment have their back-side riding on Cook's survival....the basket in which they put all the eggs... the nose, the ego issue to change new-era course so quickly.... the opening for KP to return god forbid......and last but not the least where in all of Eng would they find another captain with such family and schooling background  Smile

--Cook himself played well...but played for himself....not for the team...not a leader looking to square the series.

---For India Pankaj Singh....whose inclusion I had been pushing for for years.....bowled well...he could have had Cook and Bell......shows luck is important.

He has not been lucky else he could have been playing for India for 3 or 4 seasons now...he was the best Indian seamer for last 4 to 5 seasons......
If he is lucky he should pluck out a few wickets out of 18 more left for Eng to lose given that Eng will defnitely bat twice in this game.
But I am not so sure of Pankaj's luck....if he was he should have played for India 4 years back.
Binny wasn't lucky.....given out LBW twice ball going over the stumps.....and his career is over. Had he has one more 50 in those outings...he would have still been in the 11.

--Eng will at most bat two days unless there is an unlikely self implosion type collapse tommorow morning.

and then ind needs to bat at least a day and a half to kill the game into a draw.
Which is also very likely given what we have seen from the pitch so far and form of Indian batsman and addtional fortification they have throuhg Rohit who will bat at 6 and allow Dhoni the comfort to bat at a more suited No7

--in hindsight Ashwin wouldn't have made a diffrence on this pitch......and Dhoni realiizing that his bowlers need a juicy green pitch or a spinning pitch to make a diffrence went towards  run choking strategy on D1.
we will see more of the same unless Eng lose 3 wkts quickly and he will suddenly apply pressure.

--Ind should not relax by any means....Eng are in front and will continue to be for some time.

And this entire test match in the most important scenario comes down to Indian line up batting  through at least 1.5 days i.e 135 overs in first inning.

And I expect them to be able to do so...they will stumble , stutter, slip and falter along the way but with their 9 batsmen with some usual slips from Cook  will help them get there on this pitch.
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Post by KP_fan on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 8:47 pm

Mike Selig wrote:

I thought Pankaj tired visibly later on which surprised me. He seems a bit of an old-fashioned cricketer - doesn't really field, fitness levels dodgy. Clearly has potential, those two cutters with the new ball were astonishing, but at 29 it may be a bit late for him to develop into an international cricketer.

Shami looks to me like he's struggling with his action. Not at all smooth, seems to be very "staccato". Wasn't really consistent enough.

Kumar bowled OK, but was a bit symptomatic of the flatness around him.

.

To those watching Pankaj singh for the first time it might appear his speeds dropped in the afternoon.....to about 80mph from the highs of 87mph in the morning

actually I was surprised to see him go that high in the morning........he has been an ~80mph stock ball speed bowler and occasionally hitting 83 mph....and that's one of the reasons that selectors quoted for not picking him earlier inspite his bucketful of wickets..." not fast enough"

so i infer he was bowling beyond himself in the morning...for if doesn't impress now and Ishant returns.....his career is also gone.
If he does impress here....and I think with some luck he can......he might edge out shami from the eleven...who is indeed lacking rythm.

Shami's problem is lack of consistency........tries to do too many things in a single over....and hence varies his length, line and speeds too much within a single over.

what's considered intelligent variations for ODIs and absolutely unhelpful test match pitches in India.......is becoming his bane here.
somebody's gotta tell him in an over get 5 balls on the same spot and maybe one variation delivery instead of 4

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 9:20 pm

Buttler to come in and get 60 off 40 balls when England are 375-5 off 125 overs to push the game on I reckon thumbsup

Gary Ballance has so far slotted into the Jonathan Trott role lovely. Scored a hundred today and I can barely remember anything barring two or three shots. Lovely stuff
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 27 Jul 2014, 10:15 pm

England v India 3rd Test, Ageas Bowl - Page 3 Img_2010


ALASTAIR COOK IS A NICE BLOKE KLAXON
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 6:42 am

msp83 wrote:And Bell gets away with an LBW call.
Luck going mostly England's way so far.

Sorry but India reap what they sow. Any marginal calls they don't get they would have got with a system they refuse to use. In short I have no sympathy for India.
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 7:39 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
msp83 wrote:And Bell gets away with an LBW call.
Luck going mostly England's way so far.

Sorry but India reap what they sow. Any marginal calls they don't get they would have got with a system they refuse to use. In short I have no sympathy for India.

i don't see anyone complaining about umpiring decisions ?
the luck with marginal calls has been more or less even....like the old days. ...Umpires are getting most things right.

And talking about luck is not same as complaining about umpiring decisions.

Looks like you had a pre-loaded shot....but you choose a wrong post to shoot


Last edited by KP_fan on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 7:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 7:42 am

Olly wrote:England v India 3rd Test, Ageas Bowl - Page 3 Img_2010


ALASTAIR COOK IS A NICE BLOKE KLAXON

he is not sticking a finger.....yet....because its premature.
He can and I suspect he will if he wins the test.
If the game meanders to a close draw he wil be accused of batting selfishly .

so he is rightly holding his horses
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 8:02 am

KP_fan wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
msp83 wrote:And Bell gets away with an LBW call.
Luck going mostly England's way so far.

Sorry but India reap what they sow. Any marginal calls they don't get they would have got with a system they refuse to use. In short I have no sympathy for India.

i don't see anyone complaining about umpiring decisions ?
the luck with marginal calls has been more or less even....like the old days. ...Umpires are getting most things right.

And talking about luck is not same as complaining about umpiring decisions.

Looks like you had a pre-loaded shot....but you choose a wrong post to shoot

Sorry you are spouting rubbish. I counted at least half a dozen incorrect decisions given at the last test. This is supposed to be a professional sport not a game of chance, lottery or any other sort of pastime involved in pot luck. That is what you get without a referral system as the last test demonstrated. But sorry, I forgot, the Indian mafia (BCCI) ordain it.  picard  x 10
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 8:09 am

@craig the point here is not DRS but luck and hence you are training your loaded guns at the wrong target laughing 
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Post by KP_fan on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 8:17 am

on your point about 6 incorrect decisons ( which is different from luck subject)
I saw world cup football intermittently and counted 20 incorrect decisions related to off-sides, ball handling / fouls....and , but everyone moves on.

we are not sending a NASA rocket to Mars to desire that level of accuracy when playing football or cricket.

and even DRS does mess up decisions, many times hot spot is a hit and miss.
the trajectory extrapolation seems like a leap of faith many times.
and the governing rules are inconsistent.

so the luck and strategy element is still there with DRS and it creates its own controversies as we saw in ashes.

this series is not any poorer without DRs...on the contrary faster and less controversial
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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 8:21 am

Sorry but you are just in self denial. People against DRS argue it all levels out - BS. If DRS eliminates even one garbage decision a test it merits a place. I do not buy into this absolute rubbish it levels out as if say an Indian opener gets a raw decision and is given out that is a key decision but if Stokes is also given a raw decision (remember the terrible form he is in) then that does not level things out does it? Dropped catches/missed stumpings/missed run-outs of key wickets are often touted as being key moments or changing points in test matches and most certainly a woeful umpire decision is just as pivotal. Dropped catches/missed stumpings/missed run outs are unavoidable but woeful umpiring decisions are certainly avoidable with DRS. I rest my case.
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Post by Stella on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 8:24 am

I'd prefer to see DRS scrapped than have one country against it, and others not use some aspects. All or nothing. I'm all for umpires getting their old jobs back, in truth.
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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 9:01 am

KP_fan wrote:on your point about 6 incorrect decisons ( which is different from luck subject)
I saw world cup football intermittently and counted 20 incorrect decisions related to off-sides, ball handling / fouls....and , but everyone moves on.

we are not sending a NASA rocket to Mars to desire that level of accuracy when playing football or cricket.

and even DRS does mess up decisions, many times hot spot is a hit and miss.
the trajectory extrapolation seems like a leap of faith many times.
and the governing rules are inconsistent.

so the luck and strategy element is still there with DRS and it creates its own controversies as we saw in ashes.

this series is not any poorer without DRs...on the contrary faster and less controversial

ok you only want it to eliminate howlers i take it?

Well it would have dealt with Priors!

That howler however may have been worse for England- he may have scored a ton and kept his place.. Ermm you got me thinking Wink


No at the end of the day I prefer DRS- but I also want India to embrace it. So sadly i like other posters have no sympathy for them when it goes against them. In fact for the good of the game i would rather India get the worse of the decisions , That way they may reconsider and we can all just use DRS.

You make point about the accuracy- that's fair enough(probally better for another thread)- But if its being used then we can work on ways to constantly evolve and make it as accurate as possible. We are only at the teething stage. It will evolve and evole..

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Post by GSC on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 10:10 am

Cook in the runs should give the rest of the team a boost. Can England press their advantage into a dominant position, havent this summer
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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 10:45 am

Get to 300 and then up the rate.. We have to push on, but get in first.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 10:47 am

First and foremost they must get in and look to greatly increase their scoring rate. If they can do that then they will be in a very strong position by the close of play.
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Post by Stella on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 10:48 am

mystiroakey wrote:Get to 300 and then up the rate.. We have to push on, but get in first.

Four days left. Bat till tea, get about 180 with the loss of a couple, then have a go for an hour.............ideally. Don't really want to be shot out for 380.
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Post by liverbnz on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 10:57 am

I think the rate will naturally increase with Bell in for Cook - if he can stay in for a change. But if anyone is expecting 4/5 rpo from 300 onwards then they should think again. England are not going to risk being skittled for 350-375, which is potentially a losing first innings score on this pitch. It is not in their nature and has never been since I've watched cricket for 20+ years.

Get to between 400-450 at tea and then evaluate the options.

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 11:07 am

I just dont trust the weather..

Unlike India we have to take more risks..

Look at what Lanka have done against SA when they needed the win.

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Post by liverbnz on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 11:17 am

When have we ever taken risks? It's not an English thing to do and we're especially not going to do it in our current vein of form.

The Sri Lanka situation was/is different. The pitch is a spinners paradice on the 5th day and they are more than equipped to make use of it. Plus they are coming off one of the biggest Test results in their history.

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 11:47 am

The Indian commentator just said when Ian bell scores he scores at a quick rate.  laughing 

Bring back Warne all is forgiven !!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 11:58 am

since the selectors have copped a lot of flak for their selections recently, I think we should aknowledge some of the things they've got right. Ballance at n°3 is looking an even better call by the Test match. Plenty of criticism on here (who though Bell, Root or Moeen would be more suited to the spot) but they seem to have got that one spot on.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:01 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:since the selectors have copped a lot of flak for their selections recently, I think we should aknowledge some of the things they've got right. Ballance at n°3 is looking an even better call by the Test match. Plenty of criticism on here (who though Bell, Root or Moeen would be more suited to the spot) but they seem to have got that one spot on.

+1

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:03 pm

He plays like Trott at his best- he doesn't over complicate anything. just plays the bad balls well and defends well- nothing spectacular- perfect replacement for trott, big shoes filled.(so far  Fingers Crossed )

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Post by Mike Selig on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:04 pm

England will and are naturally accelerate as India tire, Ballance is settled (remember Ballance can score very quickly when he gets going) and with a slightly more free scoring middle-order of Bell, Root and Buttler especially (albeit Root is versatile).

Pankaj doesn't look fit enough to me. It's less about the pace (I hadn't realised he'd bowled at 87ish yesterday earlier on) but more about how his action starts to get less compact and loses consistency. As a result he bowls more bad balls and these have been punished. He will still bowl some very good deliveries when the action clicks, and I guess that's part of the step-up to test level that the good balls take fewer wickets and the bad balls go for more runs. It reminds me a bit of Plunkett or Silverwood when they first played test cricket - usually a good first spell, then some unplayable balls but too many loose ones. Albeit that in Plunkett's case it wasn't a fitness so much as an action issue.

It's a shame because his action just after lunch yesterday looked good, but he can't seem to maintain it. Is 29 too old to start taking fitness seriously? I fear so.

I do think England would do well not to simply let Jadeja bowl at them.

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Post by liverbnz on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:06 pm

Ballance is much more dynamic than Trott. We haven't quite seen it yet in an England shirt but he has blown county bowlers away in all formats - remains to be seen if he can bring that up a level.


Last edited by liverbnz on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:07 pm

Jadeja's economy is very good.

I would like to see bell have a pop at him- he can get to the pitch of the ball and smash it- He is a great spin batter

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:08 pm

liverbnz wrote:Ballance is much more dynamic than Trott. We haven't quite seen it yet in an England shirt but he has blown county bowlers away in all formats - remainds to be seen if he can bring that up a level.
his figures are very similar first class ave 55 - 50 sr.

So far same sr - better avearge -so figures suggest he has allready brought it!

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:10 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Jadeja's economy is very good.

I would like to see bell have a pop at him- he can get to the pitch of the ball and smash it- He is a great spin batter


 clap  clap

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:14 pm

Bell does go after Jadeja, I'd like to see a bit more aggression from Ballance against the spinner too, he plays the sweep pretty well, so maybe look to get that out.

Bell reaches fifty clap

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:15 pm

Bell's a shocking and clueless player of spin bowling. Look at his mediocre record in UAE/IND/SL.

He can only play 'spin' on non turning pitches or against crap teams like Bangladesh.

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Post by Mike Selig on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:16 pm

Looks like Bell listened to us mysti. Trademark lap sweep for 2 followed by lovely hit over mid-on for 6. On to 50 now. England noticeably being proactive which is good to see.

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:40 pm

82 runs so far this session. If we can get it to 100 this session that is a decent upped rate. We need to look at getting over 300 today.

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:47 pm

Gary Ballance better enjoy these more friendly attacks of SL and IND this summer.

Come next summer Southee and Boult then Johnson and Harris will expose his limited talent.

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Post by Gerry SA on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:48 pm

Ian Bell and cheap runs...go together like bread and butter. FTB.

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:49 pm

102 for the session so far clap

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:52 pm

These two have batted very well this morning, upping the rate. India's bowlers look spent, this afternoon could be a great time to make hay. I still think the pitch isn't as flat as all that, there's been a bit of swing still and the odd ball misbehaving a little. England will have to bowl well, mind.

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 28 Jul 2014, 12:54 pm

That wasn't out.

Shame- great innings though!

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