England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

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England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 4:21 pm

With the Anderson/Jadeja spat in the rear view mirror, we can all move on.

England name an unchanged squad, I'd be surprised if Plunkett didn't play, whether its at the expense of Jordan or Broad is the biggest question. Imagine they'll have planned on resting Broad at some stage.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 4:30 pm

Now that Anderson is in the clear, I would hope Broad gets a rest with Plunkett coming in to replace him.

With this being his home Test, and what has gone before, I imagine Anderson to be England's main man again in this Test.

I think England will win comfortably; momentum is on their side, and India generally struggle to put up much of a fight when the going gets difficult.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Nakatomi Plaza on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 4:31 pm

Definitely think CJ will get the chop. With Jimmy being available it does mean Broad might be rested, as he's clearly struggling. I think England's XI will be;

Cook (c), Robson, Ballance, Bell, Root, Ali, Buttler (wk), Stokes, Woakes, Plunkett, Anderson.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 4:33 pm

I'd probably bat Woakes above Stokes.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 4:37 pm

Plunkett for Broad and Stokes for Jordan are the changes I'd make (one rest, one form)
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by chrisss on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 4:55 pm

If Broad is rested, who would you give the new ball too?

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 4:55 pm

Plunkett
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 5:23 pm

Stokes can't buy a run at the moment, but he was much better with the ball. It was a tough call to drop him after batting him at 8 for not scoring runs. Jordan was all over the place in the last game, its only sensible if they bring Stokes back. With all to play for in the series, I doubt whether they'll rest Broad as yet.
As for India, the injury concerns are growing by the minute. Ishant Sharma wouldn't be available on a track where his extra bounce would have been handy. Bhuvneshwar Kumar, the side's best bowler and a key contributor with the bat, is also under an injury cloud. Back-up wicketkeeper Wriddhiman Saha is already flying back and Naman Ojha is called up as cover.
Rohit the joker, who should never have played the last game, should go. R Ashwin enjoys bouncy conditions, and OT can offer a bit to the spinner later on as the games progress. So Ashwin in for Sharma has to be a certain change.
Shikhar Dhawan's position too needs to be reviewed. Gautam Gambhir is the back-up opener, and if they decide to drop Dhawan, it should be his Delhi senior who should come in. If Kumar is also not available, its difficult to drop Shami, then one of Pandey or Aaron will come in. One of them will have to play for either Shami, or Kumar if he'sn't fully fit.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 5:42 pm

If Bhuvneshwar is to miss out, then its highly unlikely that India will go with the 5th bowler, it will be the joker yet again!.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by king_carlos on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 6:06 pm

I agree with those wanting to rest Broad, he looks like a man nursing himself through the overs. Give him a test of and bring Plunkett back in.

Jordan had a poor test with the ball but I'd persevere with him. A bowling line-up of Anderson, Plunkett, Woakes and Stokes lack variety in my opinion. Jordan has a bit of pace on Woakes and hits the pitch hard. Plus he's an outstanding fielder who really sets the standard for us in the way Collingwood used to.

1.Cook (c)
2.Rogers - In need of a score
3.Ballance
4.Bell
5.Root
6.Ali
7.Buttler (wk)
8.Woakes
9.Jordan
10.Plunkett
11.Anderson

Despite how well Ali did in the 3rd test I'm still not convinced by the side without a frontline spinner. However with Panesar still to prove he's put his off field issues behind him I'd say that's the best we've for Old Trafford with Ali performing admirably in the last test.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 6:07 pm

msp83 wrote:If Bhuvneshwar is to miss out, then its highly unlikely that India will go with the 5th bowler, it will be the joker yet again!.

--actually Ind will play Bhuv now as a 5th bowler.....because we cannot afford to miss his batting at no.9
a semi-fit bhuvi will now be the justification to get the 5th bowler

--I would so love to see shami replace by either of Pandey or aaron

---dhoni's commets indicate dhawan will get one more chance
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 02 Aug 2014, 10:57 am

msp83 wrote:Stokes can't buy a run at the moment, but he was much better with the ball. It was a tough call to drop him after batting him at 8 for not scoring runs.

Actually Stokes was left out due to bruised feet.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Liam on Sat 02 Aug 2014, 2:06 pm

Jordan doesn't justify playing in the next match so i'd bring Stokes in for him.

Rest Broad and bring back Plunkett, especially for the pace and bounce of OT if it is indeed still that way.

Bowling line up of:

Anderson
Woakes (new ball)
Plunkett
Stokes

Plunkett/Anderson/Stokes our strike bowlers with Woakes to continue in the controlling role, almost acting as our spinner tying one end down. If he picks up the odd wicket then great.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Sat 02 Aug 2014, 7:17 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
msp83 wrote:Stokes can't buy a run at the moment, but he was much better with the ball. It was a tough call to drop him after batting him at 8 for not scoring runs.

Actually Stokes was left out due to bruised feet.
Oh, Stokes was rested for due to injury concerns. Cricinfo and many others seem to have missed out on that aspect. So if he's fit then he should come in for Jordan.
Not too sure about the calls for Plunkett though, he too looked like struggling with fitness issues in the 2nd test he played, and didn't make an outstanding case for himself through consistent bowling, seems at times incapable of going to a plan b when the original one doesn't work.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 7:52 am

Stokes had bruised feet and Plunkett a tight hamstring. Both have looked far more threatening with the ball this summer than Woakes or Jordan, though Englands use of Plunkett as solely a bang it in short man has been irksome.

With Broad struggling with his knee and needing an operation, I would hope they are seriously considering giving him a rest.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 8:16 am

I have a feeling.......Ojha might replace Rohit in the playing 11

and dhoni will bowl as a 5th bowler
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 9:48 am

Ojha may not be the most horrible call they can make as he scored massive runs in Australia just before his call-up. Can't do worse than Rohit anyways. And MSD's medium pace would be more effective than Sharma's offspin!.
Don't see that happening though. Gambhir for Dhawan is a possibility, and if Bhuvi is fit, then Ashwin for Rohit can't be ruled out.
They might in all likelihood, go in unchanged if Dhoni's stubborn side is at work!.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 11:43 am

--dhoni praised Dhawan for getting in rythm....and Dhoni is as stubbornly supportive of dhwan as he was of Ishant.
so dhawan will play most likely

--then Ojha suddenly called is not without a reason...eitehr dhoni is carrying a niggle and doubtful himself
OR
most likeyl they want to use dhoni as a bowler knowing that Ojha in curent form is as good as any batsman in India
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by JDizzle on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 1:21 pm

Plunkett out of the Fourth test injured. Finn recalled. Got to be in the reckoning otherwise you just leave him with the Lions surely?

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 1:30 pm

I'd imagine they'll wanna see how he bowls in the nets first hand JDizzle, but if Broad isn't fit you'd imagine (reports he won't be in the papers today) you'd imagine he'll play
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by JDizzle on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 1:36 pm

Good point, and hadn't heard that about Broad. Depends on Stokes's fitness too I'd imagine. But Moores knows the OT pitch pretty well, so maybe he thinks it's the sort of pitch that'll really suit Finn.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by alfie on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 1:54 pm

JDizzle wrote:Plunkett out of the Fourth test injured. Finn recalled. Got to be in the reckoning otherwise you just leave him with the Lions surely?

Bit of a blow. Was looking forward to seeing a rested Plunkett having a real go at Old Trafford. Nice to see Finn working his way back - and I suppose he could play , if England are keen to deploy the quickest available options.
But I'd expect Stokes now to replace Jordan.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 3:51 pm

So Steven Finn is back!!.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Liam on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 10:47 pm

Great to see Finn back. I'd bring him in for Broad and Stokes in for Jordan.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Mat on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 10:51 pm

As long as the four pace bowlers contribute a few wickets and keep it tight, leave the rest to Moeen  Cool 


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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Sun 03 Aug 2014, 11:15 pm

I'm hopng Steven Finn doesn't get selected.

It might be a hope in vain, however.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 9:19 am

Worth pointing out that Finn's Test wickets have come at a cheaper cost than either Anderson's or Broad's. OK, they have played for a lot longer and got bags more wickets and, yes, Finn can be expensive. But he is a wicket taker and he has that extra pace and bounce to unsettle batsmen.
I think he should play at OT and will play. With Anderson available England will be favourites to win this Test.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 9:27 am

how the pendulum has swung between end of T2 when Eng had dark, gloomy clouds on their heads.....and end of T3......Eng looks like the most settled team and Ind with all the problems of world on their hand.

but Ind must look no further than the state of Eng at the end of T2 Lords......it just takes 1 day of good cricket in the next test to swing the pendulum back.

less spoken but very relevant...although it should not be ideally ...has been the luck of toss.....it skews the game heavily...especially if the pitches are batting friendly by English standards.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 9:39 am

The worry for England is that having played almost the perfect Test, their standard will slip now. I always felt that even when they were doing well a few years ago they could chuck in a horror Test. You could say that they've chucked in a succession of horror Tests already over the last few months. It's just they've had no wins to break up the losses...until now.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by alfie on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 11:49 am

sirfredperry wrote:Worth pointing out that Finn's Test wickets have come at a cheaper cost than either Anderson's or Broad's. OK, they have played for a lot longer and got bags more wickets and, yes, Finn can be expensive. But he is a wicket taker and he has that extra pace and bounce to unsettle batsmen.
  I think he should play at OT and will play. With Anderson available England will be favourites to win this Test.

Bit of a difference , though , between the Finn who was taking wickets at a great strike rate and the one who was labouring with little effect last year.
Hopefully he's getting back where he was : in fact I doubt they'd have brought him in to the squad unless they thought he had recovered his rhythm , so he must be some chance to play. Anyone on here seen him playing for Middlesex this season ? Figures are a bit up and down ; it would be interesting to have an eye witness account...
To be honest I still suspect he won't play unless Broad is injured/ rested. Think Stokes will likely be recalled for Jordan.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 11:54 am

What I saw of him in the t20 Middlesex played he looked good, but then as alfie said his figures are up and down (although they always were tbf)

On England, I'm not sure why barring broads injury they wouldn't go unchanged.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 12:58 pm

Saw Finn for Middlesex right at the beginning of the season against Notts. On a good batting wicket on which everyone looked fairly inocuous he was the one guy who hurried, and harried, the batsmen

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 2:24 pm

Daily Mail are reporting that Indian officials are going to lobby for the Anderson decision to be overturned after he admitted using foul language to Jadeja, seems they don't want to let this go apparently.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 2:37 pm

hampo171 wrote:Daily Mail are reporting that Indian officials are going to lobby for the Anderson decision to be overturned after he admitted using foul language to Jadeja, seems they don't want to let this go apparently.

How embarrassing that would be for the Indian cricket team, if true.

Go on Dhoni, keep firing Anderson up! Its worked so far (leading wicket-taker and a half-century).

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 3:03 pm

hampo171 wrote:Daily Mail are reporting that Indian officials are going to lobby for the Anderson decision to be overturned after he admitted using foul language to Jadeja, seems they don't want to let this go apparently.

there is NOTHING India can do against Anderson any more for now:

what they could attempt to invoke is against ECB one of following:

1) if they can prove that there was a video footage through CCTV of the TB pavilion area, that was not provided to the investigation team on behest of ECB or one of it's affliates;

2) OR
under some clause of ICC or bilateral arrangements for the tour...ECB was meant to have a working CCTV camera in pavilions........but did not provide it......if such a clause exists

even if they do hypothetially implicate ECB using one of the above they cannot touch Anderson any more......

BUT
Knowing Srinivasan...he holds a grudge and seeks revenge against those who are a reason for his public humiliation.
so Anderson will be a marked man in the coming months......as Srini will get more and more of his loyalists into ICC decision making positions.

and at the slightest misdemeanor Anderson will be "nailed" and hung on a cross...made an example of to put fear in others not to dare insult Srini.

Unfortunately ECB sided with the devil.....and now the dark side of it is casting shadow on ECB  also.
The ugly malpractices of BCCI have unfortunately been globalized
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 3:09 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2714295/England-bowler-James-Anderson-punished-altercation-Ravi-Jadeja-Indian-officials-consider-appealing-ICC-decision-lack-video-evidence.html

They can appeal to the ICC because of lack of video evidence KPF, basically all they're doing is making themselves look petty. He's been cleared now move on with the rest of the series.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 3:45 pm

Its a lost battle on the Anderson issue as the video evidence could not be provided for whatever reasons. No point focusing all the attention on the issue now, the team should use it as an additional motivation for the next test. A test win against England at Anderson's homeground with him leading the attack should be India's target.
Regardless of the specific case, the Indian side and the BCCI should maintain a tough stand against over the top sledging on the cricket field........
Very much doubt that from the BCCI end though.......

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by ChequeredJersey on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 7:16 pm

Decisions have gone against India and the judgement of the officials is not enough. They want to REVIEW the decision. How deliciously hypocritical
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 7:28 pm

KP_Fan mentions the luck of the toss (I see his excuse is safely prepared) - When England went to India in 2012, the away team lost the toss three times and, in those games, won two and lost one.

Good teams will find a way, regardless of the toss.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 7:31 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Decisions have gone against India and the judgement of the officials is not enough. They want to REVIEW the decision. How deliciously hypocritical
Irony is off the scale.

And the whole against sledging in thing this India team is meant to be on according to msp is just lolz. Must've imagined Sharma sledging Root for not 'walking' earlier in the series
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 7:33 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:Decisions have gone against India and the judgement of the officials is not enough. They want to REVIEW the decision. How deliciously hypocritical

That's India for you.

I remember in the Nagpur Test of 2012, a decision didn't go India's way and they surrounded the umpire in a manner more befitting a football game. It was truly embarrassing.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 7:49 pm

Olly wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Decisions have gone against India and the judgement of the officials is not enough. They want to REVIEW the decision. How deliciously hypocritical
Irony is off the scale.

And the whole against sledging in thing this India team is meant to be on according to msp is just lolz. Must've imagined Sharma sledging Root for not 'walking' earlier in the series
Anderson or Jadeja, Sharma or Root, Kohli or Cook, Broad or anyone else, I am not in favor of over the top abuse in the name of sledging.
And as the BCCI, in the pragmatic sense, is more powerful than other boards, I would welcome any initiative they take in in terms of controlling the nonsense if at all they do that.
From some friendly banter, things have degenerated considerably to rampant and persistent abuse now a days, all in the name of stupid sledging and mental disintegration. Before the Anderson incident and after it, I was, am and will be against it.......

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 7:50 pm

A worthy read!.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/766347.html

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 7:51 pm

msp83 wrote:
Olly wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Decisions have gone against India and the judgement of the officials is not enough. They want to REVIEW the decision. How deliciously hypocritical
Irony is off the scale.

And the whole against sledging in thing this India team is meant to be on according to msp is just lolz. Must've imagined Sharma sledging Root for not 'walking' earlier in the series
Anderson or Jadeja, Sharma or Root, Kohli or Cook, Broad or anyone else, I am not in favor of over the top abuse in the name of sledging.
And as the BCCI, in the pragmatic sense, is more powerful than other boards, I would welcome any initiative they take in in terms of controlling the nonsense if at all they do that.
From some friendly banter, things have degenerated considerably to rampant and persistent abuse now a days, all in the name of stupid sledging and mental disintegration. Before the Anderson incident and after it, I was, am and will be against it.......

Much like my relationship with David Tennant, it is all in your head.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Mon 04 Aug 2014, 7:58 pm

Duty281 wrote:KP_Fan mentions the luck of the toss (I see his excuse is safely prepared) - When England went to India in 2012, the away team lost the toss three times and, in those games, won two and lost one.

Good teams will find a way, regardless of the toss.

the team that went to India was a STRONG team...very strong.......Prior even almost saved the test they lost.

these are two mediocre teams stuttering,stumbling and feeding on each others mistakes and weaknesses
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 12:12 pm

So BCCI ( controlled in the background by Srini) has applied to ICC( controlled by Srini in the foreground) to reconsider Anderson verdict  Very Happy 
their line of argument now is one camera...and only that one camera that should have recorded that part of pavillion was not working...is very fishy

Sometimes something is so fishy it estblishes "guilt" or "liability" or shifts the burden of proof...i.e. the act speaks for itself or res ipsa loquitor....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/767091.html

The ICC is considering a request from India to appeal the verdict in the James Anderson-Ravindra Jadeja pushing case.

The governing body confirmed on Tuesday that it is had received a request from the BCCI and that its chief executive Dave Richardson would decide by August 10 whether to lodge a formal appeal.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 12:19 pm

Oh so the Indians now wish to use video evidence?  picard 
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 4:25 pm

Indian team for ODIs declared:

Samson is an electrifying WK and good enouhg to play a specialist batsman.....and I am glad to see Karn Sharma.....a Big spinning leggie..built like a young Warne and spins his legbreak like the young warne

Tiwary unlucky to miss...Rohit luck to be in

MS Dhoni (capt & wk), Virat Kohli, Shikhar Dhawan, Rohit Sharma, Ajinkya Rahane, Suresh Raina, Ravindra Jadeja, R Ashwin, Stuart Binny, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Mohammed Shami, Mohit Sharma, Ambati Rayudu, Umesh Yadav, Dhawal Kulkarni, Sanju Samson (wk), Karn Sharma
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 4:28 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Oh so the Indians now wish to use video evidence?  picard 

your implication is spot on
because they turned down DRS ( not TV umpire replays).........India as a nation shoud not be using video / CCTV footage for any law-breaking investigation laughing 
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 4:37 pm

Shikhar Dhawan is likely to be dropped for the next game speculates cricinfo. Ravichandran Ashwin is likely to come in for his first test this year. Speedster Varun Aaron is also likely to make it to the playing 11 and the unlucky Pankaj Singh is likely to miss out. Bhuvneshwar Kumar seems to be recovering well and should take the new ball in all likelihood.
The opening position isn't clear yet though. Gautam Gambhir could come back to the side after more than a year and a half, but it could also be Cheteshwar Pujara opening with Offspinner Rohit retained. Rohit could also miss out if Gambhir is the management's choice to open, and Ashwin can come in for Sharma.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

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