England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

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England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 4:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

With the Anderson/Jadeja spat in the rear view mirror, we can all move on.

England name an unchanged squad, I'd be surprised if Plunkett didn't play, whether its at the expense of Jordan or Broad is the biggest question. Imagine they'll have planned on resting Broad at some stage.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 4:43 pm

the only problem I have is with dropping Pankaj......he should play...shami should be replaced by Aaron
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 4:44 pm

If they decide to drop Dhawan, I think it has to bre Gambhir who should come in. Pujara hasn't been on top form so far in the series, no need to put additional pressure on him at this point. Anyways retaining Rohit adds no value whatsoever to the side, with Gambhir at least there will be some determination and valuable experience. Going in with a 5 batsman lineup with Sharma being one of them, is a sureshot way to outright disaster.
They should play both Ashwin and Jadeja at OT, the traditional bounce should suit Ashwin, and Jadeja can always keep an end quiet. Not sure Aaron for Pankaj is the right call either. Pankaj was very unlucky to have gone wicketless in his first test, and more importantly, its been Shami who has been really struggling in the first 3 games, and Pankaj who is tall, can use the bounce on the track to his advantage.
If Bhuvi is fit as he should be, then Ashwin for Rohit, Gambhir for Dhawan, and Aaron for Shami, with Ashwin batting 6 and MSD at 7.......

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 4:48 pm

Just a quick comment on the ODI squad. Young Sanju Samson is a very exciting talent from whom a lot is expected. He's not yet 20, and there needs to be a lot more work done on his game, particularly the keeping side of things. But he's a real prospect, a real hope, and now that he's picked, think he should come into that Yuvraj position....... Karn Sharma could be a handy ODI spinner, but Ashwin, Jadeja and Mishra are all doing alright, and I am not sure Karn brings a lot more to the table than any of them do. And Umesh Yadav in the ODI side and not in the test squad? That's something the selectors have got absolutely wrong.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 7:16 pm

Pujara to open would be a slightly odd choice IMO. Yes he's probably got the "technique" for it, but if you go that route you're also pushing Kohli (who's in poor form also) up to n°3 and everyone else up a place. I would think a top 6 of Vijay Pujara Kohli Rahane Sharma Dhoni/Ashwin will really have the England bowlers licking their lips. No, if they do drop Dhawan (an entirely reasonable proposition), they have to go with Gambhir, and hope for the best. Personally I would give Dhawan one more shot.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 7:52 pm

I guess they would push Rahane up to 3 maybe in that case (Pujara opening). For me that's (possibly) solving one problem by (probably) creating bigger ones elsewhere. Pujara is a natural number 3, and Rahane looks good at 5 or 6 where he can use his versatility.

I would drop Dhawan after the last game, particularly the way he played the spinners. When your strength deserts you it's time for a break IMO.

Ashwin for Rohit should be a given.

For England the feeling on the grapevine is that it may be a bit early to bring Finn back in. He went through a really traumatic time in Aus, and you don't want to set him back. I assume England want to have a look at him in the nets and get him involved again in the squad. Hopefully they won't pick him if he's not ready.

Jordan is an interesting conundrum. Dropping him now will dent his confidence, but can you afford to pick him if he's likely to get the yips again? Thing is he might be bowling perfectly well in the nets, but because his action is slightly disjointed anyway, the extra pressure and nerves can easily cause the problems we saw in the previous test.

Stokes should come back in if fit though. Whatever the issues with his batting, his bowling this summer has been the best for England outside Anderson (and at times Broad).

I think Broad will get through the summer and then probably have surgery. If he needs surgery and bowling more isn't going to make the problem much worse then that is probably worth the risk.

I was moderately impressed by Woakes who had gained a bit of pace and nip. He bowled a bit back of a length at times and could do with watching the lengths Peter Siddle bowls, as I feel that's someone he should try to emulate.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 8:14 pm

--there is no way Pujara will open...it doesn't serve anyone any good.
it's gambhir or dhawan...still 50-50

--Ashwin in for rohit

---one new seamer will play most likely aaron......i hope in place of shami...but could be in place of Pankaj also.
i wish India had called Yadav and played Aaron and Yadav together
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 8:33 pm

KPF, cricinfo reports that Pankaj did hardly any bowling in the nets while Aaron was charging in......
But yes, it should be the struggling Shami who should give way to Aaron.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 10:17 am

Finn seems to be more of a Kerrigan type pat on the back call up.

May end up being Stokes for Jordan I suspect.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 10:26 am

Initially, for this series I would say Stokes was brought in as an all-rounder in a bid to bolster the batting to compensate for Cook, Prior and Bell's poor recent form. Stokes did well with the ball but flopped with the bat. Now though things have changed a bit. The batsmen have got some big scores, Prior has been replaced by Buttler who has scored big so the pressure for Stokes to score big lessens and his batting becomes less important. They can include him now purely on his bowling.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 10:27 am

Just as well really, because at the moment hes batting like a true #11
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 10:40 am

GSC wrote:Just as well really, because at the moment hes batting like a true #11

The point is though that if he can weigh in with a few more wickets than Chris Jordan then surely it is worth playing him rather than playing Jordan and getting less wickets but say an extra 20 or 30 runs.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 10:50 am

The ICC will not appeal Andersons verdict despite India trying to throw their weight around
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:00 am

GSC wrote:The ICC will not appeal Andersons verdict despite India trying to throw their weight around

Good.
Now let's see what Srinivasan can do?
whichever this cookie crumbles....it will be fun.

He has one or two cards more......
1)sack Richardson
and 2) Threaten to pull out from this tour
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:12 am

here's the full verdict in any case

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/766611.html

Basically says that there are two very difference accounts of the incident, and that without any neutral evidence (the witnesses all being "hopelessly biased") he simply can't make any decision.

Seems fair enough. I suspect we'll never really know what happened, and TBH I don't really care anymore. It's interesting that according to some reports the ECB offered to settle it internally and "rest" Anderson for one Test match, but the BCCI wouldn't accept anything more than a minimum two-test ban which would (conveniently) keep Anderson out for the rest of the series. Make of that what you will...

I think we should all draw a line under the incident and concentrate on the rest of the series, which is intriguingly poised.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:23 am

MfC wrote:It's interesting that according to some reports the ECB offered to settle it internally and "rest" Anderson for one Test match,

Make what you will of this : laughing 
1) Was it an admission of guilt of Anderson
2) OR was ECB selling their Anderson short to placate the "rich and powerful"
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:32 am

yep, my "make of that what you will" comment was directed at both parties...

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by liverbnz on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:38 am

Doesn't really tally with Cook saying he'd be 'surprised if Anderson was given any suspension' statement.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:42 am

liverbnz wrote:Doesn't really tally with Cook saying he'd be 'surprised if Anderson was given any suspension' statement.

Cook is a kid who is neither involved nor even kept informed of the ECB Realpolitik cooking in the background......and I suspect he doesn't mind it.....and that's why ECB likes him and the likes of him in "leadership roles"
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:57 am

Hopefully the players wouldn't create such totally unwanted situation through uncivilized antics in the name of sledging and we can all focus on the actual cricket. The BCCI should just draw a line under it and move on now.......

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 12:02 pm

liverbnz wrote:Doesn't really tally with Cook saying he'd be 'surprised if Anderson was given any suspension' statement.

Cook and his public utterances!!!. Good to know there are people who still value any of them!!.......

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by liverbnz on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 1:26 pm

You'd think the ECB would at least inform Cook of the 'lines to take'. Does them no favours their captain looking the fool.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 3:50 pm

By the way another worthy read in the larger context of the debate on sledging.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/blogs/content/story/767283.html


Last edited by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:22 pm

So Cook wants Anderson to behave like a complete thug on field as he seems to believe that's how he has become England's 2nd highest wickettaker. Every time Cook speaks these days, I end up losing a bit of respect for him.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/767509.html

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:25 pm

Cook said he wants Jimmy to start acting like a thug?
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:28 pm

I look forward to Jimmy bottling dhoni on Thursday then
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:30 pm

If Jimmy starts acting like a thug the umpires will end up taking the teams off for rain.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:32 pm

ha ha ...for a moment I thought Cooks has actually said that  Very Happy 
but nevertheless not very clever words given that the powerful BCCI is still smoldering and .......and ICC chief publicly spoke against sledging
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:34 pm

ICC CEO Dave Richardson, while suggesting that no further purpose would be served by an appeal, also said that offensive language has no place in the game. Hope the umpires have heard this....... Umpiring irresponsibility has led to the situation really degenerating as far as onfield abuse culture is concerned.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:36 pm

Get a grip, MSP, this isn't rounders or some other girly sport.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:42 pm

A very sensible response from Dhoni.......
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/767497.html

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:44 pm

Duty281 wrote:Get a grip, MSP, this isn't rounders or some other girly sport.
A very gender sensitive and brilliant response, as always!!!.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:48 pm

msp83 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Get a grip, MSP, this isn't rounders or some other girly sport.
A very gender sensitive and brilliant response, as always!!!.

No evidence from you as to Anderson's wrongdoing, just some more unfounded slander...as always!!!

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by msp83 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:50 pm

Ajinkya Rahane surviving tough batting conditions and playing the best innings of the series is playing hard for me, and that's what the sport should be about, that's what playing hard should be about.
Not some stupid thug abusing his opponent, safe in the knowledge that he wouldn't get a usual and deserving response as he would have done in any other context. That is the behavior of a frustrated coward.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:52 pm

Duty281 wrote:Get a grip, MSP, this isn't rounders or some other girly sport.

correct ....... when it suits the English team's convenience
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:52 pm

I'm sure Anderson is incredibly frustrated, what with being the leading wicket-taker of the series and all. Wow the strain.

And when I met him a couple of years ago, he was quite far away from being a thug, as you so incorrectly term him.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:54 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Get a grip, MSP, this isn't rounders or some other girly sport.

correct ....... when it suits the English team's convenience

Well if the English cricket team want to play rounders, or netball, then it is entirely up to them, and I have no view either way.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Mat on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:56 pm

msp83 wrote:So Cook wants Anderson to behave like a complete thug on field as he seems to believe that's how he has become England's 2nd highest wickettaker. Every time Cook speaks these days, I end up losing a bit of respect for him.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/767509.html

I just read that entire piece and unless I missed something, I didn't see Cook say he wants Anderson to act like a complete thug. Quite an accusation to make MSP...

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 6:59 pm

Mat wrote:
msp83 wrote:So Cook wants Anderson to behave like a complete thug on field as he seems to believe that's how he has become England's 2nd highest wickettaker. Every time Cook speaks these days, I end up losing a bit of respect for him.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-india-2014/content/story/767509.html

I just read that entire piece and unless I missed something, I didn't see Cook say he wants Anderson to act like a complete thug. Quite an accusation to make MSP...

Don't let logic and common sense get in the way of MSP's crusade against Cook and Anderson!

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Gerry SA on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 7:00 pm

James 'Clubman' Anderson loves running his mouth...when he's boosting his average against sides that don't play well away from home...

Where was his big mouth in Australia? Oh yes, he was bricking it at the prospect of facing Johnson and Harris...

Anderson seems to be 'sledging' players for whom English isn't their spoken language...

I seem to remember his motor mouth went missing against South Africa in 2011 as well...

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by KP_fan on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 8:27 pm

CI says pitch is fastest and bounciest of the series.....it will be a good toss to lose then
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Nachos Jones on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 10:39 pm

This place used to be really good for a chat about cricket and for some good banter. Its changed so much that I will no longer be bothered with it.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by ChequeredJersey on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:28 pm

Gerry SA wrote:James 'Clubman' Anderson loves running his mouth...when he's boosting his average against sides that don't play well away from home...

Where was his big mouth in Australia? Oh yes, he was bricking it at the prospect of facing Johnson and Harris...

Anderson seems to be 'sledging' players for whom English isn't their spoken language...

I seem to remember his motor mouth went missing against South Africa in 2011 as well...

He was leaving it for our batsmen to do in Afrikaans
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:36 pm

Cricinfo are suggesting that England will be unchanged; the only question mark hangs over Chris Jordan who could be replaced by Finn.

As well as pressure on Chris Jordan, if he plays, Sam Robson may be starting to feel the heat if he doesn't make a good score in Manchester.

I wouldn't bank on a victory for either side: wet, wet, wet appears to be the forecast over the weekend. One can hope the weather stays fair, that England maintain their form from the last test, and that India put as much effort into playing cricket as they did in trying to get Anderson banned.

An interesting game may then result.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Duty281 on Wed 06 Aug 2014, 11:38 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:This place used to be really good for a chat about cricket and for some good banter. Its changed so much that I will no longer be bothered with it.

You can see what a lack of moderation does when you have the plethora of slanderous accusations and serial wumming that has occurred on this board in the last couple of weeks, that's for sure.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Thu 07 Aug 2014, 6:19 am

Nachos Jones wrote:This place used to be really good for a chat about cricket and for some good banter. Its changed so much that I will no longer be bothered with it.
Yeah first place I've used the ignore button on this forum.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Thu 07 Aug 2014, 8:18 am

Duty281 wrote:
Nachos Jones wrote:This place used to be really good for a chat about cricket and for some good banter. Its changed so much that I will no longer be bothered with it.

You can see what a lack of moderation does when you have the plethora of slanderous accusations and serial wumming that has occurred on this board in the last couple of weeks, that's for sure.

Yes, where are the mods for the Cricket section? Are they not bothered or do they think that constant barrage of bile and wind ups is acceptable?

Rugby Section is very enjoyable, every so often you get people popping up like some of the Trolls in this section, especially around the 6 Nations and the Lions tours, but they are soon warned then banned if they continue.

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by kingraf on Thu 07 Aug 2014, 8:39 am

We've never really had mods. Bilt and Loaded Dog help out, but the truth is we've never really needed them.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Thu 07 Aug 2014, 8:49 am

Could be a bit murky this morning, with sunshine in the afternoon.

Might not be the worst toss to lose if it swings first up with the expected pace in the pitch.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by GSC on Thu 07 Aug 2014, 10:01 am

Drizzle around but play expected to start on time.
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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

Post by Gerry SA on Thu 07 Aug 2014, 10:22 am

India set to employ the lucky dip ahead of this match...

Rumours suggesting multiple changes. Dhawan, Rohit and Shami/Pankaj all set for the axe. 

Gambhir, Ashwin and Aaron set to play. 

Seems like India haven't a clue who or what their best XI is...

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Re: England v India 4th Test, Old Trafford

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