England ODI squad

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England ODI squad

Post by Hoggy_Bear on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 7:02 pm

Alastair Cook (capt), Moeen Ali, James Anderson, Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Jos Buttler, Steven Finn, Harry Gurney, Alex Hales, Chris Jordan, Eoin Morgan, Joe Root, Ben Stokes, James Tredwell, Chris Woakes

No Bopara, Carberry or Bresnan, Hales in, but nothing too radical.
Thoughts?

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by SimonofSurrey on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 7:21 pm

Ok, so I'm maybe biased, but what did Jason Roy do so wrong for the Lions recently to merit being overlooked? I suspect he might be a more effective one day batsman than say, A Cook or I Bell, maybe even J Root. On the other hand, glad to see A Hales get his chance.

Given that Cook and Bell appear to be undroppable and that the bowling looks balanced, none of Carberry, Bresnan or even Bopara strikes me as a glaring omission from this squad.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by JDizzle on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 7:47 pm

I'd suspect Roy will get named in the T20 squad. Can't pick everyone, but I can't say that I don't disagree with your assertion that he would be a better ODI batsman than Cook/Bell. Would be interesting to see.

Taylor again unlucky. Looks like he'll have to wait till his biennial ODI vs Ireland to try and prove himself again.

Surprised to see Bops left out. But I don't know where they see him as a batsman. In his last ODIs he's been the finisher, yet he batted 3 for the Lions. Is he better than Root/Ballance at 3? Probably not. His bowling is a good option though, no worse than Woakes/Stokes as a ODI bowler?

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 10:11 pm

Yeah I'm surprised by no Bopara, but then in Australia in the world cup will his bowling suit the pitches? I think they fancy Stokes as a better wicket taking option tbh. And bopara's batting has never been good enough to keep him solely as a batsman.

Surprised by no Taylor, guy is smashing it for Notts. Maybe in the t20 squad with Roy as well (not entirely surprised by no Roy, think Vince is probably ahead of him in the ODI pecking order). Would be outraged if Roy isn't in for the t20 stuff tho.

Kinda hoped they would drop one of Bell/Cook. Think there is room for one, not both. Neither are as good as Trott was at building an innings, they generally tend to get to 40 off 60 then get out. Trotty would generally end up at a run a ball
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Duty281 on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 10:40 pm

Important series for Hales who may just force his way into the Test reckoning with some eye-catching ODI showings.

He has plenty of time: Five ODIs versus India, seven away to Sri Lanka (just why?), a tri-series in Australia against them and India, annnnnddddd the World Cup.

How yawn-inducing.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 9:51 am

Hales should play.

He won't though as Cook and Bell open
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 11:25 am

Roy, Vince and Bopara should all be in.

Bopara kept getting picked when he was poor, now he has massively improved he gets dropped? Bizarre.

There is no way Cook is a one day player. IMO

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 11:46 am

If we are honest, with the emergence of Hales and hopefully Roy at the top of the order, Cook shouldn't really be in the ODI squad, let alone team.

I am guessing the emergence of Moeen Ali as a genuine spinner might explain the omission of Bopara. The question then is where does he bat? He's not really shown that he can play at the top of the order, but I'm not sure if he's a nurdler or a finisher either.

Either that or England are thinking of playing 5 genuine bowlers, including Stokes or Woakes at 7.

I don't think anybody was seriously expecting Carberry or even Bresnan to make the squad.

There are plenty of exciting young players around the England game at the moment. Taylor and Roy not even being in the squad. The question is whether England can get them into a team in a coherent fashion.

For what it's worth, I'd like to see something like
Hales Roy Bell Root Morgan Buttler Bopara Tredwell/Another Jordan Finn Broad
have a look at Gurney as well...

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 12:04 pm

Yeah, think I said it in the test thread, given the amount of important cricket England play next year, I'd have given Cook a break from cricket to freshen up his mind. Rather not fall into the trap of being obligated to play him because hes captain.
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by freemo on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 6:55 pm

stunned that Ravi isn't there, he's done well in the past 12 months in odi's...very happy that Hales is there though

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by liverbnz on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 8:00 pm

He's averaged 23 in his last 14 ODis with the bat. 40+ with the ball. He has 1 ton and 7 50s in 99 innings. Time to move on, he's not the answer - although I'm sure there'll be an interview soon seeking sympathy absolving himself from all blame of his wasted talent.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by jimbohammers on Wed 20 Aug 2014, 11:24 am

Cook
Bell
Ballance
Morgan
Root
Buttler
Stokes
Jordan
Tredwell
Anderson
Gurney

vs

Vince
Roy
Westley
Taylor
S.Patel
Bopara
Bairstow
Willey
Bresnan
Roland Jones
R.Patel

Would be an interesting game....

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Wed 20 Aug 2014, 11:30 am

1st team could use some more firepower but theres a sizable gap in quality in the bowling lineups.
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by liverbnz on Wed 20 Aug 2014, 11:53 am

Did I miss Broad's retirement from ODis or is he having his op on the gammy knee?

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Wed 20 Aug 2014, 12:04 pm

op
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Stella on Thu 21 Aug 2014, 12:51 pm

Cook needs to go, and be replaced by Hales. In Australia, I'd be inclined to play Stokes and Woakes, at seven/eight, thus giving us five bowlers, and back up from Root.

Hales
Bell
Ballance
Root
Morgan
Buttler
Woakes
Stokes
Broad
Tredwell
Anderson
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by kingraf on Fri 22 Aug 2014, 10:50 am

If Williamson's action is illegal, Root must be on borrowed time
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by robbo277 on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 11:40 am

Interesting discussion on TMS this morning, Vaughan and Swann don't think there is enough firepower in the batting line-up and that the ODI side has been picked on test form.

I think everyone is happy with Hales, Morgan and Buttler in the batting line-up, but how do you fill in the other 3 positions? Do you go with your test players - Cook, Bell, Ballance, Root? or do you go with the players going along at strike rates of 85+ for their counties - Roy, Vince, Taylor? Or do you go for a mixture of the two?

The bowling line-up is also interesting for me. The selectors have said they want to get wickets in the middle overs, so want 5 bowlers, rather than the 4 and 2 halves they've been going with. Bopara misses out because of this.

You're then looking at 4 of Anderson, Broad, Finn, Jordan, Stokes, Woakes and Gurney and one of Ali or Tredwell. Obviously Ali, Stokes and Woakes could bat at 7 or 8, you could include Jordan and Broad as potential 8s or 9s and they can all clear the ropes. Anderson, Finn, Gurney and Tredwell would look too high above 10 in my opinion.

For this series, I'd pick a line-up of:
Cook, Hales, Ballance, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Ali, Stokes, Jordan, Anderson, Finn.

Cook and Hales can get us off to a good start, while Ballance and Root are proper players who have shots in their locker. Morgan and Buttler are our two finishers who can easily go at 10 an over at the death, while Ali, Stokes and Jordan can all through a bat.

Bowling wise, Ali is a better bat than Tredwell and Tredwell was also taken apart on his last visit to Australia. I'd open the bowling with Anderson and Jordan, with Jordan taking on Broad's role while Broad is out. Stokes is a good change bowler, and I'd be using Finn in the middle overs in short spells and at the death.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 12:35 pm

Root is fine playing the Clarke/Bailey role at 4 or 5 as he can nurdle but also go through the gears. I'm more concerned about Ballance - I don't doubt he can hit the big shots but I fear he plays out too many dot balls, so may get stuck in the middle. Bell may be a better option at 3, or Vince even.

Cook shouldn't get into the ODI side, simple as. Bell, Hales, Vince and now Roy are all better options in the top 3. Cook should focus on test cricket, and Morgan be given the ODI reigns.

The rest of the team looks pretty good. I'd be tempted by Woakes as well - good late over hitter, and his new back of a length will work well in ODIs. Plus he seems to be a decent death bowler, which England are really lacking IMO (Broad is OK, Finn sometimes). I'd agree with Ali over Tredwell as the number 1 spinner, but am unsure whether he can hit out well enough at number 7.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Liam on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 1:26 pm

Personally I think the selectors have got the ODI squad all wrong and have almost picked the Test side! Mine would be:

1. Hales
2. Bell
3. Morgan
4. Root
5. Taylor
6. Ali
7. Buttler
8. Stokes
9. Broad
10. Finn
11. Gurney




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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 3:33 pm

I agree with the point about Cook, shouldn't be in the squad when we have talents like Roy, Vince and Taylor not making the cut.

Root is a good ODI player, as Mike says he cannot go through the gears and he's always busy between the wickets. Ballance is a tough one, I'd actually be tempted to have him lower down the order in ODI's and have him come in and whack it which he does very well for Yorks.

Its good we have these options tho tbf. I don't see why we don't just pick the young uns and let em have a go. They're more than good enough
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Mike Selig on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:47 pm

Olly wrote:I don't see why we don't just pick the young uns and let em have a go. They're more than good enough

I agree with the first bit (we won't for now find out about the 2nd). It's not as if England are going to win a WC with the same tactics and (lack of) enterprise they have been showing recently. I would have thought that this summer, which everyone is keen to label a "new era" would be an ideal time to throw a few youngsters in and see what they can do ahead of really finding out who is an option for the WC coming up.

As it is, it seems possible/likely that England will go into the WC with a top 3 of Bell, Cook, Ballance. When you have batting talent like Hales, Roy, Vince, Taylor and you don't even give them a shot, that is galling. It may be that those players turn out to be hopelessly out of depth at international level (I would be surprised though; Roy I have a few questions as to how he will play taller faster bowlers who hit the splice) but you're not going to find out unless you give them a go.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:58 pm

Should Cook be in the squad - probably not. I am surprised at how, despite pretty average form Morgan seems undroppable to most.

I have to say that despite the dlating he seems to be getting Ballance as a One day player seems to stack up pretty well:

List A Performances:

Ballance average 52, SR 90
Taylor avg 50 SR 83
Vince avg 36 SR 94
Roy avg 29 SR 107

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Ozzy3213 on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 8:00 am

I have to say I agree with Vaughan and Swann, this ODI squad looks all wrong to me and I don't see how we can win the world cup with these players.  Cook needs to stand aside and concentrate on winning us the Ashes back next year.

Alex Hales
James Vince
Gary Ballance
Joe Root
Eoin Morgan
Joss Buttler
Ben Stokes
Chris Jordan
Moeen Ali
Chris Woakes
James Anderson

Would be the side that I put out.  James Taylor would be next cab off the rank in the batting department for me, with a fit again Stuart Broad replacing Chris Woakes in the bowling line up.
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 11:48 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/28926219

"We won't win this World Cup," Swann told Test Match Special.
"In four years' time, we might have a chance if we get in all the exciting players who have none of the baggage of the old-style brand we play."

"Hales should have been in this side for two or three years," said Swann. "He got 99 in a T20 international against West Indies at Trent Bridge.
"How did the powers-that-be not see that as the future of one-day opening bat?
"I used to sit in the changing room and always felt we were so far behind other teams because we play such an old-fashioned brand.

"Cook, Bell and Ballance are not players who will win you a World Cup. Hales will, as will James Vince, Jason Roy, Eoin Morgan and Jos Buttler. They are players I wouldn't want to bowl at. Players who could potentially get you 360/370 on the board."

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Liam on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 12:39 pm

For me you have to have Finn in your side if your going to Oz. If he can get back to bowling how he did in India a few years back bowling line and length at 90mph he'd be one of the first names on the team sheet for me, in ODI's and Test.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 12:49 pm

Liam wrote:For me you have to have Finn in your side if your going to Oz. If he can get back to bowling how he did in India a few years back bowling line and length at 90mph he'd be one of the first names on the team sheet for me, in ODI's and Test.

Big if. Until he does I wouldn't pick him.
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Liam on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 5:36 pm

James Taylor hits yet another ODI hundred scoring 146. How he's not in the ODI side just baffles me. Can't ignore talent like his when it arises, it needs to be given the chance in the International arena. Also puts bums on seats the thought of watching hales/taylor bat...

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by freemo on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 6:09 pm

Taylor has to be there, its ridiclous that he isn't, it really is!

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 8:33 pm

Yeah you have to wonder what the bloke has to do to get a proper shot
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Gregers on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 10:07 pm

Agreed, how Taylor isn't in the squad I have no idea

1) A.Hales
2) J.Vince
3) J.Roy
4) J.Taylor
5) J.Root
6) S.Patel/M.Ali
7) J.Buttler
8) C.Woakes/D.Willey
9) C.Jordan
10) S.Broad
11) S.Finn

That has to be our side for the world cup next year. To round it up to the 15 man squad I'd have G.Ballance, H.Gurney and B.Stokes


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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 10:34 am

Hales opens alongside Cook, Bell to bat 3 apparently.
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 10:35 am

England: Cook, Hales, Bell, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Woakes, Jordan, Tredwell, Anderson.
India: Dhawan, Rohit, Raina, Kohli, Rahane, Dhoni, Jadeja, Ashwin, B Kumar, Shami, Mohit.

Still not a fan of Cook but thats a fair sexy batting lineup by England standards.
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 10:45 am

Olly wrote:THE STOKES/WOAKES COMBINATION LIVES

ALL IS FORGIVEN

Now you just need Ben Foakes to crack on and get involved!

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 11:07 am

Dhawan and Kohli carry their test form into ODIs, India 19-2, Woakes with both.
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 11:09 am

I thought virat kohli was meant to be good?
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by GSC on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 11:11 am

All good players have rough patches but you would ideally want him to have stood up and put a struggling team on his back on this tour
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:27 pm

Woakes finishes with 4-52 and one over aside, easily the best bowler today. Bowled well toward the death too
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Dorothy_Mantooth on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:41 pm

Olly wrote:Woakes finishes with 4-52 and one over aside, easily the best bowler today. Bowled well toward the death too

Yes, he bowled well. Certainly much better than the contenders for certainly his Test Place and probably his ODI place. Stokes was poor and Jordan was all over the place. TMS saying that's Sixty wides he has bowled in only 14 ODIs!!

300 is about Par these days in ODIs but its the kind of total England have struggled with in the past. An excellent test for them.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:47 pm

Its got England all out for 249 off 46.4 overs written all over it
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 2:57 pm

Rain has deprived us of an Alex Hales double hundred it seems
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:07 pm

Sky talking about Morgan struggling 

He's only our top scorer in ODI's over the past 12 months chaps, don't let the facts get in the way
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:12 pm

Nick Knight - 'One thing Cook has done is get 100s.'

Hasn't scored an ODI hundred for two years
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Mike Selig on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:40 pm

Not surprised to see Woakes do well. He's dragged his length back a bit and isn't as driveable, and I commented earlier he'd be a good option at the death. Stokes looked rusty, and Jordan looked all over the place TBH.

I'm less fussed about Taylor than some. Not denying the guy's talent, but Morgan and Buttler are certs for the 5 and 6 slots, and England want to pick 5 genuine bowlers, so the only place Taylor fits in currently would be 4 ahead of Root. Not that fussed either way between those two, but don't think Taylor's omission is as glaring as others are making out.

Chance for Hales to show his worth.

I still don't think there's room for both Cook and Bell in the top 3. As DM said 300 is pretty much the norm for ODIs nowadays. Teams have figured out the 2 new ball issue by and large. Would like to see Roy or Vince (or both?) given a go up top.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by liverbnz on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 3:53 pm

Olly wrote:Nick Knight - 'One thing Cook has done is get 100s.'

Hasn't scored an ODI hundred for two years

I've really tried to warm to Knight but I can't. He rarely says anything that makes me think 'oh, I've learned something there'. Did he commentate in the Test series? I can;t remember him and if not hopefully that's a sign that Sky are not keen on him any more.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by JDizzle on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 4:18 pm

liverbnz wrote:
Olly wrote:Nick Knight - 'One thing Cook has done is get 100s.'

Hasn't scored an ODI hundred for two years

I've really tried to warm to Knight but I can't. He rarely says anything that makes me think 'oh, I've learned something there'. Did he commentate in the Test series? I can;t remember him and if not hopefully that's a sign that Sky are not keen on him any more.

To be fair to Knight, he did shut down Michael Holding when he just suggested that all England needed to do at the death was bowl six perfect yorkers an over. Not the way it works anymore I'm afraid.

Is Roy good enough to bat in the top three at ODI level? He's probably going to be good for a quick 50, but ideally you want guys who can score run a ball tons in the top three. He could be a good foil for Hales though, performing the role Lumb does at Notts that just allows Hales to compile and build an innings.

Roy, Hales, Taylor (Or Bell/Ballance, but I'm biased), Root, Morgan, Buttler. Job done.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Mike Selig on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 4:42 pm

Knight isn't the worst but he does get his facts wrong too often and his delivery is poor. If you listen carefully to what he says rather than the way he says it he does have a bit of insight into modern batting techniques.

As JD hints at, Holding is hopelessly out of date and out of touch, he's the one who really grinds on me. No understanding or acknowledgement about how the game has evolved. Botham similar. Their constant harping for bowlers to bowl half-volleys (at the start) and yorkers (at the end) just gets on my nerves.

Indian bowlers really finding some nip out there. Hales has looked OK (played and missed a few times), Root got a good one early. Hard to see a path for England to win this short of a monumental individual innings.

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 5:10 pm

Ancient tactics, same old result. 

Trott was the glue that made this tactic work, we've nobody anywhere near him and now we're so far behind the top ODI teams in the world
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Re: England ODI squad

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 5:29 pm

Hi folks - didn't see India's knock (bar very brief highlights on Sky between innings) but an impressive return at any rate for Woakes. He seems to have come on this year - he bowled very well at the death in Saturday's t20 final.

Very much the professional's figures for Tredwell - 2 wickets at just above 4 an over from his 10. Doesn't grab the headlines but it sure does a job.

Too many wickets gone already and too much for us to get for us to win this one now imo. Reasonably impressed by Hales - it probably doesn't help him having Cook as his opening partner in this format.

A word in defence of Knight. Of the Sky bunch, he is the best (or near best) of knowing the current county game. He certainly understands Surrey and their players a lot better than ex- Surrey skipper Butcher whom Sky at times wheel out for their domestic coverage. Knight was the first analyst I heard (about 3 years ago and only one year after me!!) speculating about Roy having an international future.

I don't mind Holding giving what many see as old fashioned views but he should acknowledge their history and how they clash with modern thoughts (it's as if he doesn't know or care). If Lloyd cut down on the jokes and catchphrases, he could be one of the best analysts. Don't ditch all the old guard though. One of the best for me is Lloyd. Lloyd has a fine knowledge of how the game has tactically evolved over the last forty years since he first captained and probably a few years before that as well - a lot can learned from that, just a shame his knowledge gets too well disguised too often!

guildfordbat

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Re: England ODI squad

Post by Mike Selig on Wed 27 Aug 2014, 6:14 pm

Don't think the tactics, or at least the attempt to be solid up front were so much at fault today TBH. England were just outplayed, the Indian seamers took advantage of the conditions very well, and then England played the spinners terribly. In fact I am in awe as to just how bad England were against some pretty average spin bowling.

I'm not advocating getting rid of all the old guard, guildford. I like Gower for example, who comes across as knowledgeable but accepts other points of view as well; and similarly I rate Lloyd when he's not clowning around, although he is dreadful about associate cricket (just doesn't do any homework, acknowledges this freely and then gets most of the facts wrong) although not that much worse than the others - Knight the honourable exception. Just that Holding's views have become stuck, fixated, more and more stubborn and increasingly incoherent. Botham doesn't accept that others may have a different view, and his standard retort is to ask how many wickets/runs they scored, as if that has any relevance.

Mike Selig

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Re: England ODI squad

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