We Go Again! The 2014/15 Premier League Thread

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Post by Liam on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 6:50 pm

such a shame Strootman got injured before the world cup. Think he'd be at the club otherwise. He should have been here last summer along with thiago but we ballsed it up and ended up with fellaini.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 8:58 pm




This is very good!
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Post by CFCNick on Sun 24 Aug 2014, 10:34 pm

Aaron Ramsey strikes again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-28923074

Think it's time to matters into our own hands and break Aaron Ramsey's leg (again). We need to protect celebrities from this vile man.

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 8:55 am

oh the goal scored thing = someone's going to die!!

It took some time for me to work that one out

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Post by mystiroakey on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 9:42 am

Deal of the season = Gareth Barry for 2 mill.. Can anyone beat that.

I would have been happy if palace paid 3 times that amount for him and I have no idea why man u weren't all over that player at that price..

There are some insane deals floating about . people say English players go for to much.. Look at Lambert and Barry for starters... Lambert could end up being unused now at Liverpool. But Barry will play almost every game..

Yes they may be old but both look like they have 2-3 years in them

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Post by The Special Juan on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 11:07 am

mystiroakey wrote:Deal of the season = Gareth Barry for 2 mill.. Can anyone beat that.

I would have been happy if palace paid 3 times that amount for him and I have no idea why man u weren't all over that player at that price..

There are some insane deals floating about . people say English players go for to much.. Look at Lambert and Barry for starters... Lambert could end up being unused now at Liverpool. But Barry will play almost every game..

Yes they may be old but both look like they have 2-3 years in them

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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 11:29 am

United just look like your typical mid table team now. I'm not going on the basis of 2 games this season but it has got beyond laughable with them now. Its ok United buying all of these attacking players, that's not the problem. The problem is they have 4 defenders known as Phil Jones, Jonny Evans, Blackett and Chris Smalling. People thinking that United will win the title this season need to seriously consider the situation at United. Them central defenders wouldn't get them into Europe. So nevermind Di Maria, they need Rojo to come in and they need another top class CB to work alongside Rojo and Jones. Someone who is strong, good at set pieces, organises the defence, can clear the ball, is comfortable in possession and can mark a man. There are only a handful of them sorts of defenders around nowadays. Hummels was United's best option but that deal fell straight our of the window. United's next 3 games are quite big. They have the 3 newly promoted teams so they should at bare minimum be winning at least 2 games there. That still wouldn't satisfy me fully as they should be collecting 9 points from 9. But if they don't get at least 2 wins on the board, then something is drastically wrong. Only time will tell how well LVG will do, but this is a case of a long term project that could take up to 5 years to sort out before they start getting back to their bst. They may have to endure some tough seasons but I'd at least expect them to get into Europe this season if they can, if not, then LVG will have to soldier on, because this club needs time to return to its former glory. People seem to forget this isn't going to happen by one manager change, a world class right winger and a few more good signings within a season.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 11:51 am

I'm not worried. We've a lot of players who will be starting and many injured. Confidence is low and we are lacking experienced players in important areas to calm the team on and drive it forward. It is a poor start but I fully expect us to challenge for the top four with everyone fit - now if we have to play this batch of players for a long period we might miss out on top four by a good distance.

Evans, Rojo, Herrera, Carrick will all start when fit. RVP not fully match fit. Shaw could start as well. Then we likely have Di Maria coming in possibly more.

De Gea
Jones Evans Rojo
Valencia Herrera Carrick Shaw
Di Maria
Rooney RVP

Looks a far stronger side than what we put out yesterday;
jones Smalling Blackett
Valencia Fletcher Cleverly Young
mata
RVP Rooney

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Post by Liam on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 1:19 pm

I'd rather us play 4-2-3-1 and have to tough choice of dropping either Rooney or RVP:

De Gea
Rafael - Jones/Evans - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Carrick or a new signing (hopefully vidal/de jong)
Di Maria - Mata - Januzaj
Rooney/RVP

Or if we play 3-4-1-2

De Gea
Jones Evans Rojo
Di Maria Herrera Carrick (or new signing) Shaw
Mata
Rooney RVP

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 1:24 pm

I don't see the point in signing a £64 million pound attacker who has done his best stuff centrally and playing him at right wing back.

Basing it on LVG not changing his formation and using Di Maria like he used Robben for Holland in World cup.

I called it in pre season that Mata wouldn't be in the team for long and I'm sticking with that prediction.

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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 3:36 pm

Ent - I do agree, at this minute there is nothing to worry about but then again sooner rather than later if this mess isn't cleared up then there might be something to worry about. Like I said, only time will tell. But you need to really be getting 9 points from 9 from the next 3 games against the newly promoted teams just to prove this isn't a blip of a start. Both of them teams still look weak though. Without question another CB is needed and I'm not all sure that Di Maria is an effective AM, certainly not like matter. Yes he is direct but I'm sure Mata would be much more suited to an AM role. Also, I'm not all so sure it's RVP isn't fit. The best way to describe himis past his prime. He might score a few goals this season but he'll never show the form he did the last couple of seasons he did at Arsenal and the first season at United. He is fit, because that was United's fans' excuse last season.

I can actually more or less agree with Liam's 4-2-3-1 formation. I've always been in favour of the bold 4-4-2 and the traditional formation as I like to call it, but I'll never say I'm against 4-2-3-1 apart from the fact you only have 1 outlet up top, which is your CF, unless you have good wide players like Chelsea that are good at running in behind like Hazard, Oscar or Schurrle. I've never been convinced that Arsenal have wingers that can run in behind. I'd still think another CB is needed in a 4-2-3-1 and another midfielder as well. I think Carrick and Fletcher are good players for back-up, nothing more. They can still do a job but United need higher quality. I'm actually quite surprised that LVG has turned away from Rafael's services. He seems to be blind towards his outlet and has zero aptitude for the more defensive qualities of the modern wing back, as Young and Valencia proved yesterday they can't really do a good enough job there as they can't defend well enough. LVG plays a dangerous and attacking game of 3-5-2 and so far, it has worked against him as it leaves the 2 CB's exposed and stretched far too often.

Also, if you want my opinion, I know I was slating the 4-2-3-1 formation for not having enough outlet up front but I do think that suits United more. From my experience of watching plenty of video's of Di Maria, rumours about him and watching him play for Real Madrid, I do think he is a direct winger that can take players on and can run in behind defenders and link up with strikers, I think that is what he is good at, which makes him world class. But I'd pay nothing over £50m maximum for him. I'd say he is between the £40-50m bracket. But that's business for you these days in football. But so far, Rooney and RVP just don't look like a pair up front. They are different characters. One sulks when he doesn't get his own way and kicks out (like he did yesterday) and the other is past his prime and "always unfit". I really don't see how either of them 2 with that profile can work together. United are trying to make it like Suarez and Sturridge but it justdoesn't work, as LVG's "genius" doesn't know how to get a good partnership going. Liverpool's partnership worked, United's doesn't, simply put.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 3:55 pm

I really struggle to comprehend what point you are trying to get across a lot of the time - it makes it difficult to engage in discussion with you.

9/9 in the next 3 games isn't essential as we still have this group of lesser players available - it is very desirable but the time to judge will be when everyone is match fit and available.

That is RVP's 1st game since the world cup, he didn't feature at all in pre season - he isn't match fit yet and came off early yesterday, will only take a few weeks.

4231 is a good formation but LVG has never really used it and looks set on 3412.

DI Maria was excellent centrally for Madrid last season, feel he will be used there. Mata just doesn't contribute enough to be carried in the side currently. He wants to be a number 10 but quite frankly barely creates a thing.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:01 pm

It is still early days for United, much too early to be looking at permutations and such like, but I would say that the wingback formation has to be discarded.

It may be to Van Gaal's suitability, but it most certainly does not suit Manchester United with the players they currently possess. A traditional 4-2-3-1 is much more to the liking of United's players.

As for tonight, I think Manchester City will thoroughly outgun Liverpool by three goals to one. Should be an entertaining game, with two attack-minded sides, but City have the extra quality where needed to bag the three points.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:05 pm

Good time for Liverpool to play them, I don't think city are fully match fit and firing on all cylinders yet.

Could be close enough.

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Post by Liam on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:27 pm

Mata has scored 7 in his last 8 so not sure how he's being a passenger. I wouldn't expect my no.10 to be sprinting around like a headless chicken, I want him scoring and assisting which is what he's doing.

Di Maria may well be central midfield but only in a midfield 3 with an out and out cdm. Until then, I'd play him out wide, which is why I would drop the wing back formation as it would allow us to play our two best full backs in Shaw and Rafael and out two best wingers in Januzaj and Di Maria.

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Post by kingraf on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:44 pm

Well, look at his goals, then look at the results. If you score seven in eight in 1-0, 1-1 type results, then maybe a lack of defensive willingness is is acceptable. But that's not what has been happening. Di Maria was the AM, sort of in a team which had more of the ball, and required less from him defensively, and his tackle output was more than double Mata's last season. I don't think a mid table team (that's what Utd are at the mo) needing extra effort from their AM is a new phenomena.
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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:49 pm

Its very simple really - but its sometimes just that bitter United fans can't accept the reality of situation they are currently in. United fans thinking they will win the league again, not a chance, United fans thinking they can even challenge for top 4, without being naive I'm afraid to say that looks difficult for a squad of such poor quality at the moment. The point is, United are quickly sinking into a hole here and not many fans (especially United one's) are failing to realise it. I looked up at the BBC page last week when United lost at home to Swansea and I almost smirked when United fans finally got their reality check when LVG's "genius" was never going to happen. United are quickly turning into what Liverpool were for 3/4 seasons and until they find a manager that has a better positive attitude and can turn some bad confidence around, then I'm afraid they are stuck as a lowly mid table side. When you look at some of the quality as well, you could agree with me. Smalling, Jones, Carrick, Fletcher, Young etc. These are the sorts of players you think will challenge top 4 again?

That is the naivety that United fans have now as well. They are trying to make the situation sound better than what it actually is. It is very difficult to be able to converse with SOME United fans that have the same attitude towards that fact. Without any disrespect to you or a collective group of other United fans. You say your squad is capably of challenging top 4, then it should be essential to get 9 points from 9. Look at your opponents and yourselves and look at the difference in quality. You are in with the pack of teams that are almost like top 4 wannabe's but are not consistent enough to get in there, much like Everton and Spurs. It's showing in the fans now, you say you're capable of top 4 and you're telling me that 9 points from 9 against the newly promoted teams isn't essential? Maybe you should take a moment to re-think about your post and correct what you are saying.

RVP was training from Pre-World Cup all the way through until the 3rd place play-off game. He had a couple of weeks rest and then was back to Pre-season at United again and you're telling me he is not fit enough? The term you are looking for is "burnt-out" is anything. But again, United fans are again, naive to the fact that they can't admit that RVP is past his prime. I did say, he could score 15 goals or so this season, but the fact that he is past his prime, maybe "unfit" as you United fans say and can't work with Rooney as a pairing, I can't see him getting 20-30 goals this season. Surely that has to be an acceptable comment?

Like I said, I've never been in-favour of 4-2-3-1 because of your only outlet being just 1 striker. But it is something that would work for United. Also, its about having options to come off the bench. Rooney and RVP are both strikers that like to "lead the line". You can't have 2 strikers to lead the line. Say you sign Di Maria then for example and revert to a 4-2-3-1 formation. You could have an 11 starting and then, for attacking options on the bench you could have Januzaj, Rooney/RVP, Di Maria/Mata, Welbeck, Kagawa, Hernandez and then a midfielder like Fletcher. That is quite a strong bench, whichever players you wish to have on there. Then if the players that start aren't playing well, there are some good options there to come and change that. If you want someone to run in behind, nevermind Mata or Di Maria, Kagawa is your player. He has energy, creativity and the ability to run in behind and finish off chances.

Yes Di Maria did well in a reverted central role for some of last season but when I watched him when he played out wide, he seemed a different player, one that would suit United's style. Something that United had that they don't now is proper wide men that are direct, can beat a defender and can play crosses into the box dangerously where the forwards can get in front of their man and finish. That is something United have lacked and the players are used to that as Carrick is able to switch the play with his passing to either side. Di Maria would be best served out wide and United would be best served with top class wide men that can play crosses in towards Rooney/RVP, with Mata making a late run or sitting on the edge of the box. If I could have 2 more signings at United now and I was the manager, this would be my matchday squad, personally.

De Gea
Rafael - Hummels - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Carrick
Di Maria - Mata - Januzaj
Rooney

Subs: Lindegaard, Jones, Evans, Fletcher, Kagawa, Valencia, RVP.

Januzaj is quite a direct player and would flourish under someone like Di Maria's presence on the other wide. I think that would be United's best team, if they signed Hummels as well though. I don't see what LVG has against them signings or that team. That is probably a team worthy of at least challenging for top 4 and is something worth building on in years to come personally. I'd love to be a manager stepping in to that side.

Liam also backs-up my point there.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:53 pm

So you're judging everything based on two games and you have the cheek to call us naive.

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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 4:59 pm

Read through my last post. It does say that I'm not basing my opinion on United's first 2 games. But from last season as well. Because you still have some of the problems from last season now and even more problems with LVG. So, yes, I do have the cheek to call any United fans naive.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:01 pm

In between all the waffle which you repeated about five times per paragraph all I got from your post was naive, naive, naive yet you're the one jumping the gun making assumptions based on two games. Last season is done and dusted, we have new players and a new manager, these things take time and won't be corrected this early into a season.

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Post by freemo on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:03 pm

should be a quality game tonight, looking forward to it..

Balotelli confirmed a Liverpool player, on a 3 year deal.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:04 pm

FootballLight wrote:Its very simple really - but its sometimes just that bitter United fans can't accept the reality of situation they are currently in. United fans thinking they will win the league again, not a chance, United fans thinking they can even challenge for top 4, without being naive I'm afraid to say that looks difficult for a squad of such poor quality at the moment. The point is, United are quickly sinking into a hole here and not many fans (especially United one's) are failing to realise it. I looked up at the BBC page last week when United lost at home to Swansea and I almost smirked when United fans finally got their reality check when LVG's "genius" was never going to happen. United are quickly turning into what Liverpool were for 3/4 seasons and until they find a manager that has a better positive attitude and can turn some bad confidence around, then I'm afraid they are stuck as a lowly mid table side. When you look at some of the quality as well, you could agree with me. Smalling, Jones, Carrick, Fletcher, Young etc. These are the sorts of players you think will challenge top 4 again?

That is the naivety that United fans have now as well. They are trying to make the situation sound better than what it actually is. It is very difficult to be able to converse with SOME United fans that have the same attitude towards that fact. Without any disrespect to you or a collective group of other United fans. You say your squad is capably of challenging top 4, then it should be essential to get 9 points from 9. Look at your opponents and yourselves and look at the difference in quality. You are in with the pack of teams that are almost like top 4 wannabe's but are not consistent enough to get in there, much like Everton and Spurs. It's showing in the fans now, you say you're capable of top 4 and you're telling me that 9 points from 9 against the newly promoted teams isn't essential? Maybe you should take a moment to re-think about your post and correct what you are saying.

RVP was training from Pre-World Cup all the way through until the 3rd place play-off game. He had a couple of weeks rest and then was back to Pre-season at United again and you're telling me he is not fit enough? The term you are looking for is "burnt-out" is anything. But again, United fans are again, naive to the fact that they can't admit that RVP is past his prime. I did say, he could score 15 goals or so this season, but the fact that he is past his prime, maybe "unfit" as you United fans say and can't work with Rooney as a pairing, I can't see him getting 20-30 goals this season. Surely that has to be an acceptable comment?

Like I said, I've never been in-favour of 4-2-3-1 because of your only outlet being just 1 striker. But it is something that would work for United. Also, its about having options to come off the bench. Rooney and RVP are both strikers that like to "lead the line". You can't have 2 strikers to lead the line. Say you sign Di Maria then for example and revert to a 4-2-3-1 formation. You could have an 11 starting and then, for attacking options on the bench you could have Januzaj, Rooney/RVP, Di Maria/Mata, Welbeck, Kagawa, Hernandez and then a midfielder like Fletcher. That is quite a strong bench, whichever players you wish to have on there. Then if the players that start aren't playing well, there are some good options there to come and change that. If you want someone to run in behind, nevermind Mata or Di Maria, Kagawa is your player. He has energy, creativity and the ability to run in behind and finish off chances.

Yes Di Maria did well in a reverted central role for some of last season but when I watched him when he played out wide, he seemed a different player, one that would suit United's style. Something that United had that they don't now is proper wide men that are direct, can beat a defender and can play crosses into the box dangerously where the forwards can get in front of their man and finish. That is something United have lacked and the players are used to that as Carrick is able to switch the play with his passing to either side. Di Maria would be best served out wide and United would be best served with top class wide men that can play crosses in towards Rooney/RVP, with Mata making a late run or sitting on the edge of the box. If I could have 2 more signings at United now and I was the manager, this would be my matchday squad, personally.

De Gea
Rafael - Hummels - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Carrick
Di Maria - Mata - Januzaj
Rooney

Subs: Lindegaard, Jones, Evans, Fletcher, Kagawa, Valencia, RVP.

Januzaj is quite a direct player and would flourish under someone like Di Maria's presence on the other wide. I think that would be United's best team, if they signed Hummels as well though. I don't see what LVG has against them signings or that team. That is probably a team worthy of at least challenging for top 4 and is something worth building on in years to come personally. I'd love to be a manager stepping in to that side.

Liam also backs-up my point there.

Who are you talking to and what are you trying to say? Not to be rude but is english your first language?

RVP has just scored 4 in 6 at the world cup, he had a month off and has not played a single pre season game - he managed 60 minutes at the weekend. He may or may not be past his prime but he is definitely not match fit yet, it will only take him a few weeks. If the team create chances he will get plenty of goals, if we don't he will struggle - simple really.

9/9 isn't essential (though very desirable) as 6 of LVGs likely first team may not be available for all those games for one reason or another. If we aren't beating those kind of sides with everyone fit and available then I'd be worried.

Kagawa is rubbish.

DI Maria played most of last season centrally, Bale and Ronaldo were on the wings - he was excellent there, better than he ever was wide.

I like 4231 but LVG seems set on 3412, he is also rumoured to be using Januzaj as a central midfielder.

You say united fans are naive and then suggest we just go out and sign hummels, strange.

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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:12 pm

Hammersmith - You're the United fan that is very much proving my point. You can't stand up and admit that you are in trouble. I will keep repeating it, because in that post, you have been naive towards the fact that you keep saying I'm basing my valid points on two games. Last season is done and dusted but you still seem to have some of the same problems as last season. Everyone can see that in the first 2 games of the season anyway. Its the fact that you're still looking like you're going to struggle because in these early stages, you're still showing your poor quality that you have. Losing at home to mid table/bottom half teams is embarrassing. First it was WBA, but losing to Swansea at home, on the first day as well. It is already beyond a joke. That is the naivety that you can't see because you've still got the same problems, just early this time around.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:16 pm

FootballLight wrote:Hammersmith - You're the United fan that is very much proving my point. You can't stand up and admit that you are in trouble. I will keep repeating it, because in that post, you have been naive towards the fact that you keep saying I'm basing my valid points on two games. Last season is done and dusted but you still seem to have some of the same problems as last season. Everyone can see that in the first 2 games of the season anyway. Its the fact that you're still looking like you're going to struggle because in these early stages, you're still showing your poor quality that you have. Losing at home to mid table/bottom half teams is embarrassing. First it was WBA, but losing to Swansea at home, on the first day as well. It is already beyond a joke. That is the naivety that you can't see because you've still got the same problems, just early this time around.

You do realise we still have Evans, Rojo, Herrera, Carrick and Di Maria (barring some disaster) to come into the first 11? Then Rafael and Shaw to come back into the squad, possibly the side at wing back. RVP will be sharper in a few weeks.

Seriously we'd all be bricking it if the side that has played the first 2 games is all we had, but LVG is aware of the problems in the squad and is attempting to remedy it and we are missing a lot of players.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:21 pm

These problems may not exist with Herrera, Rojo, Shaw, Di Maria and a match fit Van Persie in the starting line up, that is the point your naivety and senseless ramblings are failing to consider nor how the players will react to LVG as a manager.

These things cannot be judged on two games, four of those players weren't here last season, in fact nobody can see anything after two games aside from the man in charge who is addressing the issues.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:23 pm

Ent wrote:
FootballLight wrote:Hammersmith - You're the United fan that is very much proving my point. You can't stand up and admit that you are in trouble. I will keep repeating it, because in that post, you have been naive towards the fact that you keep saying I'm basing my valid points on two games. Last season is done and dusted but you still seem to have some of the same problems as last season. Everyone can see that in the first 2 games of the season anyway. Its the fact that you're still looking like you're going to struggle because in these early stages, you're still showing your poor quality that you have. Losing at home to mid table/bottom half teams is embarrassing. First it was WBA, but losing to Swansea at home, on the first day as well. It is already beyond a joke. That is the naivety that you can't see because you've still got the same problems, just early this time around.

You do realise we still have Evans, Rojo, Herrera, Carrick and Di Maria (barring some disaster) to come into the first 11? Then Rafael and Shaw to come back into the squad, possibly the side at wing back. RVP will be sharper in a few weeks.

Seriously we'd all be bricking it if the side that has played the first 2 games is all we had, but LVG is aware of the problems in the squad and is attempting to remedy it and we are missing a lot of players.

That is some considerable talent to come into the team, christ just Carrick coming in would be a massive improvement let alone having two actual full backs playing and a midfielder in Herrera who can pick out a progressive forward pass.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:25 pm

Liam wrote:Mata has scored 7 in his last 8 so not sure how he's being a passenger. I wouldn't expect my no.10 to be sprinting around like a headless chicken, I want him scoring and assisting which is what he's doing.

Di Maria may well be central midfield but only in a midfield 3 with an out and out cdm. Until then, I'd play him out wide, which is why I would drop the wing back formation as it would allow us to play our two best full backs in Shaw and Rafael and out two best wingers in Januzaj and Di Maria.

Good for him he has a few goals, as LVG says we lack creative passing - a £38 million number 10 should be able to pick these passes. Instead he does the same thing every time, check back onto the left peg and dink one over the top straight into the keepers arms.

He needs to pull the finger out, get on the ball in between the lines and play in the strikers or wide men - not just lazily recycling the ball until he gets a chance to chip it to the goal keeper.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:30 pm

Think you're being a bit harsh on Mata, he's playing no worse than Rooney and are playing because of our midfield, the build up from the back is far too slow. Jones and Smalling need to drive forward with the ball more like Rio did, then the midfield need to recycle the ball quicker, there's far too much sideways passing which is slowing everything done. So by the time Mata and Rooney get on the ball they're met by two lines of four which even for the top players is hard to slide through.

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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:32 pm

Ent wrote:
FootballLight wrote:Its very simple really - but its sometimes just that bitter United fans can't accept the reality of situation they are currently in. United fans thinking they will win the league again, not a chance, United fans thinking they can even challenge for top 4, without being naive I'm afraid to say that looks difficult for a squad of such poor quality at the moment. The point is, United are quickly sinking into a hole here and not many fans (especially United one's) are failing to realise it. I looked up at the BBC page last week when United lost at home to Swansea and I almost smirked when United fans finally got their reality check when LVG's "genius" was never going to happen. United are quickly turning into what Liverpool were for 3/4 seasons and until they find a manager that has a better positive attitude and can turn some bad confidence around, then I'm afraid they are stuck as a lowly mid table side. When you look at some of the quality as well, you could agree with me. Smalling, Jones, Carrick, Fletcher, Young etc. These are the sorts of players you think will challenge top 4 again?

That is the naivety that United fans have now as well. They are trying to make the situation sound better than what it actually is. It is very difficult to be able to converse with SOME United fans that have the same attitude towards that fact. Without any disrespect to you or a collective group of other United fans. You say your squad is capably of challenging top 4, then it should be essential to get 9 points from 9. Look at your opponents and yourselves and look at the difference in quality. You are in with the pack of teams that are almost like top 4 wannabe's but are not consistent enough to get in there, much like Everton and Spurs. It's showing in the fans now, you say you're capable of top 4 and you're telling me that 9 points from 9 against the newly promoted teams isn't essential? Maybe you should take a moment to re-think about your post and correct what you are saying.

RVP was training from Pre-World Cup all the way through until the 3rd place play-off game. He had a couple of weeks rest and then was back to Pre-season at United again and you're telling me he is not fit enough? The term you are looking for is "burnt-out" is anything. But again, United fans are again, naive to the fact that they can't admit that RVP is past his prime. I did say, he could score 15 goals or so this season, but the fact that he is past his prime, maybe "unfit" as you United fans say and can't work with Rooney as a pairing, I can't see him getting 20-30 goals this season. Surely that has to be an acceptable comment?

Like I said, I've never been in-favour of 4-2-3-1 because of your only outlet being just 1 striker. But it is something that would work for United. Also, its about having options to come off the bench. Rooney and RVP are both strikers that like to "lead the line". You can't have 2 strikers to lead the line. Say you sign Di Maria then for example and revert to a 4-2-3-1 formation. You could have an 11 starting and then, for attacking options on the bench you could have Januzaj, Rooney/RVP, Di Maria/Mata, Welbeck, Kagawa, Hernandez and then a midfielder like Fletcher. That is quite a strong bench, whichever players you wish to have on there. Then if the players that start aren't playing well, there are some good options there to come and change that. If you want someone to run in behind, nevermind Mata or Di Maria, Kagawa is your player. He has energy, creativity and the ability to run in behind and finish off chances.

Yes Di Maria did well in a reverted central role for some of last season but when I watched him when he played out wide, he seemed a different player, one that would suit United's style. Something that United had that they don't now is proper wide men that are direct, can beat a defender and can play crosses into the box dangerously where the forwards can get in front of their man and finish. That is something United have lacked and the players are used to that as Carrick is able to switch the play with his passing to either side. Di Maria would be best served out wide and United would be best served with top class wide men that can play crosses in towards Rooney/RVP, with Mata making a late run or sitting on the edge of the box. If I could have 2 more signings at United now and I was the manager, this would be my matchday squad, personally.

De Gea
Rafael - Hummels - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Carrick
Di Maria - Mata - Januzaj
Rooney

Subs: Lindegaard, Jones, Evans, Fletcher, Kagawa, Valencia, RVP.

Januzaj is quite a direct player and would flourish under someone like Di Maria's presence on the other wide. I think that would be United's best team, if they signed Hummels as well though. I don't see what LVG has against them signings or that team. That is probably a team worthy of at least challenging for top 4 and is something worth building on in years to come personally. I'd love to be a manager stepping in to that side.

Liam also backs-up my point there.

Who are you talking to and what are you trying to say? Not to be rude but is english your first language?

RVP has just scored 4 in 6 at the world cup, he had a month off and has not played a single pre season game - he managed 60 minutes at the weekend. He may or may not be past his prime but he is definitely not match fit yet, it will only take him a few weeks. If the team create chances he will get plenty of goals, if we don't he will struggle - simple really.

9/9 isn't essential (though very desirable) as 6 of LVGs likely first team may not be available for all those games for one reason or another. If we aren't beating those kind of sides with everyone fit and available then I'd be worried.

Kagawa is rubbish.

DI Maria played most of last season centrally, Bale and Ronaldo were on the wings - he was excellent there, better than he ever was wide.

I like 4231 but LVG seems set on 3412, he is also rumoured to be using Januzaj as a central midfielder.

You say united fans are naive and then suggest we just go out and sign hummels, strange.

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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:44 pm

Ent wrote:
FootballLight wrote:Hammersmith - You're the United fan that is very much proving my point. You can't stand up and admit that you are in trouble. I will keep repeating it, because in that post, you have been naive towards the fact that you keep saying I'm basing my valid points on two games. Last season is done and dusted but you still seem to have some of the same problems as last season. Everyone can see that in the first 2 games of the season anyway. Its the fact that you're still looking like you're going to struggle because in these early stages, you're still showing your poor quality that you have. Losing at home to mid table/bottom half teams is embarrassing. First it was WBA, but losing to Swansea at home, on the first day as well. It is already beyond a joke. That is the naivety that you can't see because you've still got the same problems, just early this time around.

You do realise we still have Evans, Rojo, Herrera, Carrick and Di Maria (barring some disaster) to come into the first 11? Then Rafael and Shaw to come back into the squad, possibly the side at wing back. RVP will be sharper in a few weeks.

Seriously we'd all be bricking it if the side that has played the first 2 games is all we had, but LVG is aware of the problems in the squad and is attempting to remedy it and we are missing a lot of players.

The fact is, there is only Di Maria in there that is world class. Rojo and Herrera aren't that bad but the rest of your squads that started that you think are back-up from yesterday's squad obviously isn't of good enough then is it. RVP might be sharper in a few weeks, but you're still missing the point that he is past his prime, he showed that throughout the majority of last season.

You might be, but you don't actually have Di Maria yet and I don't believe you have made a good enough bid for him that has been accepted yet, so a deal for him isn't actually close to being completed yet. Its the Vidal rumours all over again as far as I can see. You still don't have that much top quality left to come into your side. Like I said, Herrera and Rojo are probably the only half decent players that are good enough to challenge for Champions League or good enough for Europe. I should probably add Shaw and Rafael to that list as well.

Ent - Mata is still a quality player that is able to pick out a good pass and create chances, that is what he is all about. 7 goals in 8 games for a creative AM is a very good record. You will struggle to find that in any other top class AM around Europe at the moment. Also, everyone thinks that LVG is a genius and after 2 games he has proven why he isn't. I know that's contradicted what I've said before but even still.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:47 pm

FootballLight wrote:You might be, but you don't actually have Di Maria yet and I don't believe you have made a good enough bid for him that has been accepted yet, so a deal for him isn't actually close to being completed yet. Its the Vidal rumours all over again as far as I can see. You still don't have that much top quality left to come into your side. Like I said, Herrera and Rojo are probably the only half decent players that are good enough to challenge for Champions League or good enough for Europe. I should probably add Shaw and Rafael to that list as well.

Ent - Mata is still a quality player that is able to pick out a good pass and create chances, that is what he is all about. 7 goals in 8 games for a creative AM is a very good record. You will struggle to find that in any other top class AM around Europe at the moment. Also, everyone thinks that LVG is a genius and after 2 games he has proven why he isn't. I know that's contradicted what I've said before but even still.

Di Maria is all done bar the shouting FL, you've obviously not been looking very hard
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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:53 pm

FootballLight wrote:
Ent wrote:
FootballLight wrote:Hammersmith - You're the United fan that is very much proving my point. You can't stand up and admit that you are in trouble. I will keep repeating it, because in that post, you have been naive towards the fact that you keep saying I'm basing my valid points on two games. Last season is done and dusted but you still seem to have some of the same problems as last season. Everyone can see that in the first 2 games of the season anyway. Its the fact that you're still looking like you're going to struggle because in these early stages, you're still showing your poor quality that you have. Losing at home to mid table/bottom half teams is embarrassing. First it was WBA, but losing to Swansea at home, on the first day as well. It is already beyond a joke. That is the naivety that you can't see because you've still got the same problems, just early this time around.

You do realise we still have Evans, Rojo, Herrera, Carrick and Di Maria (barring some disaster) to come into the first 11? Then Rafael and Shaw to come back into the squad, possibly the side at wing back. RVP will be sharper in a few weeks.

Seriously we'd all be bricking it if the side that has played the first 2 games is all we had, but LVG is aware of the problems in the squad and is attempting to remedy it and we are missing a lot of players.

The fact is, there is only Di Maria in there that is world class. Rojo and Herrera aren't that bad but the rest of your squads that started that you think are back-up from yesterday's squad obviously isn't of good enough then is it. RVP might be sharper in a few weeks, but you're still missing the point that he is past his prime, he showed that throughout the majority of last season.

You might be, but you don't actually have Di Maria yet and I don't believe you have made a good enough bid for him that has been accepted yet, so a deal for him isn't actually close to being completed yet. Its the Vidal rumours all over again as far as I can see. You still don't have that much top quality left to come into your side. Like I said, Herrera and Rojo are probably the only half decent players that are good enough to challenge for Champions League or good enough for Europe. I should probably add Shaw and Rafael to that list as well.

Ent - Mata is still a quality player that is able to pick out a good pass and create chances, that is what he is all about. 7 goals in 8 games for a creative AM is a very good record. You will struggle to find that in any other top class AM around Europe at the moment. Also, everyone thinks that LVG is a genius and after 2 games he has proven why he isn't. I know that's contradicted what I've said before but even still.

Seriously what are you even saying here?

RVP had 16 in 22 starts last season in league and CL, 4 in 6 at world cup. He has just turned 31 - still a top player.

Di Maria is very likely to sign tomorrow, but we will see. It's really nothing like the vidal rumours. So he, Herrera, Rojo, Shaw, Rafael are the only ones coming in that will make a difference - that is 5 players.

You need to stop rambling and contradicting yourself so some sort of conversation can actually take place.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 5:56 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Think you're being a bit harsh on Mata, he's playing no worse than Rooney and are playing because of our midfield, the build up from the back is far too slow. Jones and Smalling need to drive forward with the ball more like Rio did, then the midfield need to recycle the ball quicker, there's far too much sideways passing which is slowing everything done. So by the time Mata and Rooney get on the ball they're met by two lines of four which even for the top players is hard to slide through.

I just find him so frustrating to watch, don't think he makes himself available for his team mates enough or asserts himself - mind you no one is currently.

Don't think Rio drove forward that much for united to be fair to the current back four, occasional forays rather than a consistent theme.

I think LVG wants to pass it slowly and work the whole team up the pitch then inject pace when we are near the box and have a lot of men there. I'm not sure it will work but that appears to be what is happening.

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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:00 pm

Di Maria has played as a winger ever since he has come onto the scene. So one good season as an AM doesn't make him a natural AM does it? If Januzaj plays in CM all of this season, does that make him a natural CM?

*
Ent wrote:
FootballLight wrote:Its very simple really - but its sometimes just that bitter United fans can't accept the reality of situation they are currently in. United fans thinking they will win the league again, not a chance, United fans thinking they can even challenge for top 4, without being naive I'm afraid to say that looks difficult for a squad of such poor quality at the moment. The point is, United are quickly sinking into a hole here and not many fans (especially United one's) are failing to realise it. I looked up at the BBC page last week when United lost at home to Swansea and I almost smirked when United fans finally got their reality check when LVG's "genius" was never going to happen. United are quickly turning into what Liverpool were for 3/4 seasons and until they find a manager that has a better positive attitude and can turn some bad confidence around, then I'm afraid they are stuck as a lowly mid table side. When you look at some of the quality as well, you could agree with me. Smalling, Jones, Carrick, Fletcher, Young etc. These are the sorts of players you think will challenge top 4 again?

That is the naivety that United fans have now as well. They are trying to make the situation sound better than what it actually is. It is very difficult to be able to converse with SOME United fans that have the same attitude towards that fact. Without any disrespect to you or a collective group of other United fans. You say your squad is capably of challenging top 4, then it should be essential to get 9 points from 9. Look at your opponents and yourselves and look at the difference in quality. You are in with the pack of teams that are almost like top 4 wannabe's but are not consistent enough to get in there, much like Everton and Spurs. It's showing in the fans now, you say you're capable of top 4 and you're telling me that 9 points from 9 against the newly promoted teams isn't essential? Maybe you should take a moment to re-think about your post and correct what you are saying.

RVP was training from Pre-World Cup all the way through until the 3rd place play-off game. He had a couple of weeks rest and then was back to Pre-season at United again and you're telling me he is not fit enough? The term you are looking for is "burnt-out" is anything. But again, United fans are again, naive to the fact that they can't admit that RVP is past his prime. I did say, he could score 15 goals or so this season, but the fact that he is past his prime, maybe "unfit" as you United fans say and can't work with Rooney as a pairing, I can't see him getting 20-30 goals this season. Surely that has to be an acceptable comment?

Like I said, I've never been in-favour of 4-2-3-1 because of your only outlet being just 1 striker. But it is something that would work for United. Also, its about having options to come off the bench. Rooney and RVP are both strikers that like to "lead the line". You can't have 2 strikers to lead the line. Say you sign Di Maria then for example and revert to a 4-2-3-1 formation. You could have an 11 starting and then, for attacking options on the bench you could have Januzaj, Rooney/RVP, Di Maria/Mata, Welbeck, Kagawa, Hernandez and then a midfielder like Fletcher. That is quite a strong bench, whichever players you wish to have on there. Then if the players that start aren't playing well, there are some good options there to come and change that. If you want someone to run in behind, nevermind Mata or Di Maria, Kagawa is your player. He has energy, creativity and the ability to run in behind and finish off chances.

Yes Di Maria did well in a reverted central role for some of last season but when I watched him when he played out wide, he seemed a different player, one that would suit United's style. Something that United had that they don't now is proper wide men that are direct, can beat a defender and can play crosses into the box dangerously where the forwards can get in front of their man and finish. That is something United have lacked and the players are used to that as Carrick is able to switch the play with his passing to either side. Di Maria would be best served out wide and United would be best served with top class wide men that can play crosses in towards Rooney/RVP, with Mata making a late run or sitting on the edge of the box. If I could have 2 more signings at United now and I was the manager, this would be my matchday squad, personally.

De Gea
Rafael - Hummels - Rojo - Shaw
Herrera - Carrick
Di Maria - Mata - Januzaj
Rooney

Subs: Lindegaard, Jones, Evans, Fletcher, Kagawa, Valencia, RVP.

Januzaj is quite a direct player and would flourish under someone like Di Maria's presence on the other wide. I think that would be United's best team, if they signed Hummels as well though. I don't see what LVG has against them signings or that team. That is probably a team worthy of at least challenging for top 4 and is something worth building on in years to come personally. I'd love to be a manager stepping in to that side.

Liam also backs-up my point there.

Who are you talking to and what are you trying to say? Not to be rude but is english your first language?

RVP has just scored 4 in 6 at the world cup, he had a month off and has not played a single pre season game - he managed 60 minutes at the weekend. He may or may not be past his prime but he is definitely not match fit yet, it will only take him a few weeks. If the team create chances he will get plenty of goals, if we don't he will struggle - simple really.

9/9 isn't essential (though very desirable) as 6 of LVGs likely first team may not be available for all those games for one reason or another. If we aren't beating those kind of sides with everyone fit and available then I'd be worried.

Kagawa is rubbish.

DI Maria played most of last season centrally, Bale and Ronaldo were on the wings - he was excellent there, better than he ever was wide.

I like 4231 but LVG seems set on 3412, he is also rumoured to be using Januzaj as a central midfielder.

You say united fans are naive and then suggest we just go out and sign hummels, strange.

I think it was pretty clear who I was talking to. Otherwise you wouldn't have responded would you?

It seems it was LVG's choice to give him some time off after the World Cup, but is it another poor decision of his to leave United's main outlet of scoring goals out for the whole of Pre-season to try and build his fitness up again. I can see he wants to prevent him from becoming burnt out, however, he could have just left him on the bench for some games and bring him on for half an hour.

You're a bunch of fans aspiring to get your club back into the top 4 and you think 9 points from 9 against the 3 newly promoted teams isn't essential. That shows to me a lack of ambition, as much as you do say it is desirable. I am quite a strict person on opinions on different clubs, but that is just who I am. Even your back-up players should be good enough to see off the quality of all of them 3 teams. You still should be able to beat them anyway, Liverpool could, Man City could, Arsenal could, Chelsea could. They were the top 4 last season. That shows the lack of quality you have in your team and the lack of confidence you have in your players.

Kagawa isn't rubbish at all. He has quality, United just haven't used him to the best of his ability.

I personally see Di Maria as a better wide man than what he is an AM. He suits United's style. Also, you can't base him as a better AM in one season playing there when he has played most of his career as a wide midfielder and has been very successful there. That is why I see him as a better fit as a wide midfielder than an AM.

Januzaj as a central midfielder I don't think will work. He isn't mature enough to play that sort of role IMO as he is still only a kid in the football world. He needs to stick to his best attacking/wide position, work on his abilities in them positions that he likes more. But if he wants more game time, then I suppose that is understandable.

Yep, I suggested that, because you're so naive to the fact that you need to buy all of these attacking players, when you're problem is at the back and you still don't realise that. Its not strange at all.*

The "**"'s represent an error as I forgot to copy and paste it back into the comment where I posted just a quotation box. My PC is awful sorry.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:07 pm

Like Ent I have no idea what you're replying to, it's just one poorly constructed paragraph after another that doesn't make any sense.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:09 pm

Here you go, I'm not a Manchester United fan and I'll throw in my two cents.

Mata getting a lot of the blame for something I'm not sure he can rectify. His movement for the goal yesterday was something no other United player was contributing. Both RVP and Rooney come looking for it too often, the midfield is pedestrian in its use of the ball behind him and the options on the wing are one dimensional.

Rafael over Valencia will be a huge improvement, as would Shaw over Young. Carrick is a big loss and not one of the midfielders left has his range of passing.

And their best centre back is missing. Jones played well against, and showed he can probably handle the 3 man defence, but Evans has long been United's best defender. Evans, Jones, Rojo could be the way forward.

However, it sounds like LVG considers Di Maria a winger and believes his squad lack width. Could be interesting, thinking of Barca models where there was generally one wide forward, a central striker and Messi floating with Iniesta behind. Mata as your Iniesta, Rooney as your Messi, RVP playing properly up top (as an Eto'o type did) and Di Maria out wide (like Pedro). Rough look at a side, granted, but easy to do without blunting Rooney too deep.

A lot of it is about making sure there are runs in behind the defences. If United are too slow distributing the ball they will come up against settle backlines that are harder to break. Equally, RVP and Rooney both coming deep too often means there is no one to make those runs, which still need to be made against deeper defences. RVP clearly wasnt match fit, but regardless I don't think hes that inventive in the build up and would be better served staying closer to goal.

The upshot is that United will have alternatives, can fit the stars into a team and have much more to give.

The main positive I can see is that there is more pace in their team with the likes of Shaw, Rafael, Rojo (fast for a centre back at least), Herrera and Di Maria all to come in. They also have players fast on the ball and fast of mind.

Even if Di Maria isn't as good as he was last season, he'll still be a massive improvement on all the wide options of last year. And is in the bracket of class just below Messi and Ronaldo. World Class, but not mindblown to death class. Worth £60m? Probably not, but its not your money and the club definitely has it to spend. Its not a deal that will stop you spending money on anyone else, this isnt a Di Maria or three £20m players situation. You could probably spend another £60m no problem. It doesn't solve the Manchester United central midfield riddle, but who knows Herrera and Carrick won't?

I think the side looks far stronger than last year with only a few moves. Misses experience in defence but Evans has a lot more than he's given credit for. Shouldnt need to see a lot of Young, Cleverley, Fellaini, Valencia any more.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:15 pm

Whoever in the other thread suggested Dembele and Sandro; both would be great options and both are better than the two players Spurs have in centre midfield currently.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:15 pm

Has to be major concerns for United, certainly at the back. Jones isn't anywhere near the finished article, and is liable to go missing. Even if you have those players back, part of Uniteds problem against Sunderland was that they seemed happy to drop off and let Wes Brown and O'Shea play out from the back, Rooney and Co should be closing the defenders down not giving them 15 yards to pick a pass out. If that doesn't change then United will be in big trouble, the lack of pace is frightening as well.
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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:18 pm

That is a bit easier to read.

footballLight wrote:Di Maria has played as a winger ever since he has come onto the scene. So one good season as an AM doesn't make him a natural AM does it? If Januzaj plays in CM all of this season, does that make him a natural CM?

Doesn't matter if he is a natural at it - it has been his most effective and brilliant position. Robben is a natural winger but LVG utilised him brilliantly centrally/roaming in the world cup.

I think LVG is sticking with this formation and Di Maria will be his Robben for United.

I think it was pretty clear who I was talking to. Otherwise you wouldn't have responded would you?

wouldn't have asked if it was clear

It seems it was LVG's choice to give him some time off after the World Cup, but is it another poor decision of his to leave United's main outlet of scoring goals out for the whole of Pre-season to try and build his fitness up again. I can see he wants to prevent him from becoming burnt out, however, he could have just left him on the bench for some games and bring him on for half an hour.

Didn't want to risk injuring him given his history. He ended up missing one game, he'll be match fit in 2 weeks.

You're a bunch of fans aspiring to get your club back into the top 4 and you think 9 points from 9 against the 3 newly promoted teams isn't essential. That shows to me a lack of ambition, as much as you do say it is desirable. I am quite a strict person on opinions on different clubs, but that is just who I am. Even your back-up players should be good enough to see off the quality of all of them 3 teams. You still should be able to beat them anyway, Liverpool could, Man City could, Arsenal could, Chelsea could. They were the top 4 last season. That shows the lack of quality you have in your team and the lack of confidence you have in your players.

The season is 38 games long, not 5. Everyone was saying the first 6 games were very winnable and we would need a good haul there. If we don't get 9 points from these games it isn't a disaster, providing we get everyone fit and in the team and have a good remaining 8 months of the season...

No I don't have confidence in the current 11, it's why I keep saying we have 5 or 6 to come into the starting line up. Our back up players aren't good enough.

Kagawa isn't rubbish at all. He has quality, United just haven't used him to the best of his ability

He has been rubbish for us that is all that matters, we should sell him.

I personally see Di Maria as a better wide man than what he is an AM. He suits United's style. Also, you can't base him as a better AM in one season playing there when he has played most of his career as a wide midfielder and has been very successful there. That is why I see him as a better fit as a wide midfielder than an AM.

Doesn't matter what you think really, his best season was centrally. Our current style he doesn't suit playing wide. If we change formation he could play wide.

Januzaj as a central midfielder I don't think will work. He isn't mature enough to play that sort of role IMO as he is still only a kid in the football world. He needs to stick to his best attacking/wide position, work on his abilities in them positions that he likes more. But if he wants more game time, then I suppose that is understandable.

LVG supposedly wants to try him there, again he isn't suited to wingback in this formation.

Yep, I suggested that, because you're so naive to the fact that you need to buy all of these attacking players, when you're problem is at the back and you still don't realise that. Its not strange at all.

Well the main problem is midfield and every united fan on this board has been saying we need a centre back. We have actually bought one this window too and our best remaining centre half isn't fit.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:21 pm

hampo171 wrote:Has to be major concerns for United, certainly at the back. Jones isn't anywhere near the finished article, and is liable to go missing. Even if you have those players back, part of Uniteds problem against Sunderland was that they seemed happy to drop off and let Wes Brown and O'Shea play out from the back, Rooney and Co should be closing the defenders down not giving them 15 yards to pick a pass out. If that doesn't change then United will be in big trouble, the lack of pace is frightening as well.

I don't rate phil jones at all, should be out of the side when Evans is fit but he won't be.

Pressing is an issue, in pre season we were dropping into a 523 when defending, with the 2 strikers covering wide and mata meant to be pressing the centre halfs. He didn't do it so rooney kept coming in - leaving an easy outball to the fullback. This has continued into the season for me.

Problem with centre forwards charging in is that the defenders just pass round them and into midfield and our midfield is too immobile to press them high and force them into errors.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:22 pm

hampo171 wrote:Has to be major concerns for United, certainly at the back. Jones isn't anywhere near the finished article, and is liable to go missing. Even if you have those players back, part of Uniteds problem against Sunderland was that they seemed happy to drop off and let Wes Brown and O'Shea play out from the back, Rooney and Co should be closing the defenders down not giving them 15 yards to pick a pass out. If that doesn't change then United will be in big trouble, the lack of pace is frightening as well.

Young and Valencia were dragging everyone back by being so deep, once we have Shaw and Rafael in the team, players actually capable of playing full back or wing back then I expect us to start pushing up the pitch more. We have pace in the squad it just isn't fit to play.

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Post by kingraf on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:23 pm

Well Hampo, you seem to be missing a rather obvious truth. If Mata isn't expected to do any defensive work because he's only an AM, why on earth would anyone expect Rooney and Robin to be closing down defenses? Can't have strikers running like headless chickens
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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:24 pm

It was pace of the pass though HH, it was awful. I don't see that changing when the other players are fit and as Neville was mentioning during the game yesterday LVG likes his sides to drop off and be in position rather than press from the front. Don't see that working in the Premier League personally.
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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:25 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
hampo171 wrote:Has to be major concerns for United, certainly at the back. Jones isn't anywhere near the finished article, and is liable to go missing. Even if you have those players back, part of Uniteds problem against Sunderland was that they seemed happy to drop off and let Wes Brown and O'Shea play out from the back, Rooney and Co should be closing the defenders down not giving them 15 yards to pick a pass out. If that doesn't change then United will be in big trouble, the lack of pace is frightening as well.

Young and Valencia were dragging everyone back by being so deep, once we have Shaw and Rafael in the team, players actually capable of playing full back or wing back then I expect us to start pushing up the pitch more. We have pace in the squad it just isn't fit to play.

I think they are told to drop in when defending, I noticed it in pre season and watched every game of the tour and valencia match.

The PL has been a bit of a disaster really so hard to see what they are doing in these games but in pre season they had an initial press then dropped into a 523 if they didn't turn the ball over quickly.

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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:26 pm

hampo171 wrote:It was pace of the pass though HH, it was awful. I don't see that changing when the other players are fit and as Neville was mentioning during the game yesterday LVG likes his sides to drop off and be in position rather than press from the front. Don't see that working in the Premier League personally.

That should come with confidence and some results, the players are bricking it given the loss to Swansea. Afraid to take risks, make mistakes or lose the ball.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:26 pm

You don't see Herrera and Carrick affecting the pace with which we pass the ball?

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:27 pm

I've always thought Carrick slows the pace down, honestly don't rate him as highly as some seem to. Haven't seen enough of Herrera to comment.
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Post by Ent on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:28 pm

hampo171 wrote:I've always thought Carrick slows the pace down, honestly don't rate him as highly as some seem to. Haven't seen enough of Herrera to comment.

Carricks a confidence player, over the course of the season he will help - but I wouldn't expect miracles the day he comes back into the side.

Herrera looked like he was trying to inject some pace and move the ball quickly but others weren't really up for it.

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Post by PaulHv2 on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:30 pm

That's the other side of the coin I suppose Ent, it's all well and good having players wanting to inject pace in to the side but if no one wants the ball or once he passes it they just slow the play down what's the point? I'd expect you to beat QPR easily though.
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Post by FootballLight on Mon 25 Aug 2014, 6:31 pm

If you fancy reading what I've put, you might get a clearer understanding. Its like you read half, stop halfway through and then slate me then. But, I'm arguing with 2 United fans, you're both extremely bitter. For the THIRD and FINAL time, my point is that United fans are so oblivious to the fact that they have poor quality in their side, the fans aren't bitter to admit that the situation the club are (they can't break back into Europe as they are a typical mid table side) and that already, United fans and amny pundits and other sets of fans can now finally see that LVG's "genius" isn't all that it is cracked up to.

From a neutral perspective, I'm speaking for quite a lot here on the whole, its obvious that you're proving my point. You're oblivious to the situation. Di Maria will sort our problems, United don't even have a deal in place for him  so how can you say it will be completed tomorrow? We will just keep buying more attackers, what when Fulham's defence looks better than Smalling, Rojo, Jones and Blackett. SOME United fans are shcokingly bitter. You two fall into that category with all due respect. A lot of that is sarcasm but surely, if you are true United fans then you could see just what exactly I'm getting at.

Anyway, can we leave this here please, we aren't getting very far, I'm tired, I'm ready to watch tonight's game and I'm hungry, so I've got things to do. I do apologise for any offensive comments, but that's the heat of the debate I suppose. Good evening.

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