The Decline of Mike Tyson/ One Night in Vegas

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The Decline of Mike Tyson/ One Night in Vegas Empty The Decline of Mike Tyson/ One Night in Vegas

Post by SugarWarrior on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 11:20 am

I watched a ESPN documentary last night from their 30 for 30 Series. It was called ‘One Night in Vegas’ and focused on the night of the Tyson v Seldon title fight, the death of Tupac Shakur and the friendship between Tupuc and Tyson.
The documentary kind of implied that after the Seldon fight and the death of Tupac, Tyson was never the same fighter again. They quoted him losing 4 of his next 5 fights before retiring.
Has anyone else seen the documentary and do they agree or was Tyson in decline before he went to prison?
Just a general discussion really on Tyson post prison really and what went wrong after a promising 4-fight winning streak when he looked really good.

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Post by Scott Hall on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 11:37 am

I'll go out on a limb and say i dont think Tyson ever looked good during his post prison career.

McNeeley was a stiff, Mathis Jnr a poor showing, Bruno a bit of a farce with his constant holding. Seldon taking a dive, then the two holyfield fights and a subsequent ban from boxing again.

He had slowed down, was starting to throw single shots rather than combos and wasnt moving his head and weaving as much as he used to. Lets face it, a 3+ year break from boxing, a prison term and according to his own book, a drug and alcohol problem and a bad diet probably accounts for that.

Tyson was a freak and i think he was declining slightly before his jail sentence, I think the two fights with Ruddock took a lot out of him and i think his peak was the 88 Spinks fight where he was just ferocious.
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Post by Guest on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 12:26 pm

Are you talking "Prime" Mike Tyson or "Peak" Mike Tyson as, over the years, it's been established that these are definitely two different people?

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Post by horizontalhero on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:26 pm

Tyson's decline started after the Spinks fight, in terms of quality of performance. But for my money he wasn't much worse when he came out of prison that he was in his last few fights before he went in- he didn't look great against Bruno, Douglas or Ruddock.
To link any loss of form to Tupac would seem tenouous at best. The loss to Holyfield seems a lot less surprising in retrospect than it did at the time- the book Twice bitten which covers not only the Tyson- Holyfield fights, but the path that led them to it is worth a read- and suggests that going right back to their time as amateurs, Holy had Tyson's number.

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Post by Azabache on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 3:23 pm

Watching his fights now, with the benefit of hindsight and without all the hype, it's painfully apparent how susceptible he was to getting hit.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 3:38 pm

He was hard to hit before Bruno....Holyfield said he would have been a nightmare back then because of his side to side movement..."Tyson uncut"..

After Spinks...King got control...Rooney left and a bunch of talentless Mates trained him and gave him carte blanche....

Rooney's sacking was the worst thing that happened to him professionally..King and Givens worst things personally..

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 4:53 pm

I agree with Truss Rooney's sacking was the turning point and it may seem stark to say but it was in my opinion the beginning of the end for iron mike

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Post by Azabache on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 5:13 pm

Not sure if Cus's death before he actually became Champ had some sort of delayed psychological reaction...

For me he comes across now as the most noble of the lot; and the Beauty Queen duping of him was disgraceful-but I'm vering off-topic!

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Post by kingraf on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 5:35 pm

Very difficult to judge exactly where Mike lost the plot. Worth remembering he had a tough upbringing. Then he lost his surrogate father. Signed up with the man who has single handedly destroyed the careers of more black fighters than anyone before or since. Then there was the toxic marriage to Givens, (Anyone seen that interview where she slams him off and he just stands there all comatose?). Then there was the prison stint. I suspect it was more an accumulation. It's a small wonder he won the world title and retained with the circus that was his life.
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Post by Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 6:03 pm

Mike "Mr Excuses" Tyson

Oh Cus died

Oh prison ruined him

Oh he didn't rrape her (even though he was found guilty)

Oh he had sex before the Douglas fight....

He was a good fighter for about 4/5 years then he fell apart. People try to say he was the greatest of all time. Aye right, greatest looney bin. Excuse after excuse
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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 7:11 pm

No way he was the greatest of all time not even in the top 50

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 7:38 pm

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Mike "Mr Excuses" Tyson

Oh Cus died

Oh prison ruined him

Oh he didn't rrape her (even though he was found guilty)

Oh he had sex before the Douglas fight....

He was a good fighter for about 4/5 years then he fell apart. People try to say he was the greatest of all time. Aye right, greatest looney bin. Excuse after excuse

Try living in his shoes.

Oh yeah you could not hack growing up in the tough mean streets of Brooklyn as a kid having to scrap to survive far easier to sit behind a keyboard and criticise.

Tyson top 3 H/W ever in terms of skill and technique.

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 8:05 pm

Have you been drinking OneTwo? Smile

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 8:16 pm

I think he rates as one of the top 10 heavyweights of all time...but that's my personal opinion. In his prime (spinks) I think he gives any fighter in any boxing era a good scrap.

Absolute ferocious beast when at his very best.

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Post by DuransHorse on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 8:29 pm

Tyson suffers from the myth that if you weren't intimidated by him you could beat him and that Douglas merely exposed his weakness. Way more to Tyson than that. I'm a massive Lewis fan and even I admit a prime Mike makes it a different fight.

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 8:40 pm

No heavy had the skillset of Mike Tyson EVER!

For a short heavy, the shortest along with Marciano he ruled a division full of guys 7 foot and over and its all because he was a very well schooled fighter.

People do not give him the credit out of hate.

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Post by DuransHorse on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 8:57 pm

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:he ruled a division full of guys 7 foot and over

You sure you weren't watching a basketball game?

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 9:04 pm

DuransHorse wrote:Tyson suffers from the myth that if you weren't intimidated by him you could beat him and that Douglas merely exposed his weakness.  Way more to Tyson than that.  I'm a massive Lewis fan and even I admit a prime Mike makes it a different fight.

Tyson both suffers and gains from many myths and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Certainly true that most opponents were beaten before the bell rang. But a fair few decent fighters who did put up a fight were still dispatched... Eg Pinklon Thomas... Decent coke snorting fighters. That said, even then if you could take him to the later rounds, your chances were always better.

Opinion divided on the douglas fight, but to me the douglas that turned up that night was a real handful for anyone.

Certainly agree that prime, pomp, peak, post-cus-pre-prison Tyson v lewis is a very different fight.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 9:13 pm

DuransHorse wrote:
ONETWOFOREVER wrote:he ruled a division full of guys 7 foot and over

You sure you weren't watching a basketball game?

Onetwo often gets a bit confused. Mike Tyson and Alton Byrd? Easy mistake to make.

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Post by wheelchair1991 on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 9:16 pm

We all know i peak tyson would have destroyed god himself

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Post by DuransHorse on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 9:38 pm

milkyboy wrote:
DuransHorse wrote:Tyson suffers from the myth that if you weren't intimidated by him you could beat him and that Douglas merely exposed his weakness.  Way more to Tyson than that.  I'm a massive Lewis fan and even I admit a prime Mike makes it a different fight.

Tyson both suffers and gains from many myths and the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Certainly true that most opponents were beaten before the bell rang. But a fair few decent fighters who did put up a fight were still dispatched... Eg Pinklon Thomas... Decent coke snorting fighters. That said, even then if you could take him to the later rounds, your chances were always better.

Opinion divided on the douglas fight, but to me the douglas that turned up that night was a real handful for anyone.

Certainly agree that prime, pomp, peak, post-cus-pre-prison Tyson v lewis is a very different fight.

Psychology is a big part of any sport and against most Tyson had the upper hand in that department. His aura was immense. Douglas was better than the odds suggested even before tragedy seemed to focus his mind for a career best performance. For me he was able to bypass Tysons fearful reputation simply because he didn't give a toss. Add to that Tyson wasn't at his absolute best in my opinion the conditions were in place for an upset.

What people forget is how he got that fearful reputation in the first place. Fast, quick, powerful accurate hands that exploded on contact with serious venom and spite. Not to mention arguably the best head movement of any heavy making him hard to tag.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 17 Sep 2014, 10:11 pm

Agree with all the above, but certainly on here I think most give a fair crack of the he whip to Tyson. He polarises opinion among the masses but most guys with a genuine interest in boxing recognise that he was neither a flat track bully nor an unbeatable monster.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 18 Sep 2014, 8:13 am

I'd only pick Ali with any confidence against an 87 Tyson..

Other greats may win but I wouldn't bet on it....Always pick him to beat Larry....Foreman wasn't as fast but may land the big un.....

Lewis and Bowe are 40/60 against him....and I'd pick him to beat Holy...

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