The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

+12
Bob_the_Job
kwinigolfer
SmithersJones
pedro
McLaren
navyblueshorts
robopz
Shotrock
Mad for Chelsea
Roller_Coaster
BlueCoverman
incontinentia
16 posters

Page 4 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Wed 22 Oct 2014, 3:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

1).Chapter 3 of the 2014/2015 season sees the Tour head to Georgia's Golden Isles, and the lovely Seaside Course on Sea Island, for "The McGladrey Classic". Originally a 1920's Colt/Allison collaboration, the course was redone by Tom Fazio and looks as aesthetically gorgeous as all but one or two on Tour. The Tour has hit the jackpot with its weather for the early season trips to Silverado and Las Vegas, and four days of promised sunshine should only enhance the Seaside Course as we enjoy the action from our armchairs.

2).Several of the PGA Tour's frat boys live in this most attractive area, Love, Kuchar, ZJohnson, English and a bunch of lesser lights, and others have instructors based locally.
Almost twenty of the field went to university in Georgia, including Chris Kirk who won here last year, and several others are from the nearby Carolinas, including Bill Haas and Webb Simpson who are paired together this week - in a rare flash of wry humour from the PGA Tour.

3).Speaking of which, the Ryder Cup just won't go away, what with Poulter's riposte to Faldo's snipe at Garcia, and His Highness Jack Nicklaus coming out in Tom Watson's corner as the Gleneagles post-mortems continue.

'Course, Saint Jack has also come out in support of a talented young College Quarterback who, in any other society would probably be serving time right now. Think Balotelli's stupidity and throw in shoplifting and several allegations about sexual assault, mixed in with police neglect (possible corruption?) and you'll get the picture.
Not sure Captain Tom would like to be bracketed with this particular thug, but that's the way St.Jack moves these days.

4).Russell Knox and Martin Laird will be in the field for the third straight week and they've hit the ground running this month. Knox steadied his ship to finish third in Las Vegas, but he needs to straighten his back and lift his head up if he's to be taken seriously as a tournament contender. His body language after his first nine holes last Sunday was terrible, shoulders slumped and head shaking. Not good enough.

5).No surprise to see Ben Martin win on Tour; I mentioned him seven months ago that he "looked as if he may have the 'right stuff'" to win soon - I just didn't expect it to be the week after he dragged his sorry arse in second-to-last place at Silverado with rounds of 78 & 79.

6).Some of the Tour's leading lights are starting to return to action with a slimline (relatively speaking) Jason Dufner teeing it up in Perth. He looks as if he's lost a stone or two, and that's just from around his neck.
Duf doesn't give the gallery much love on the golf course but I love watching his swing routine, plenty of waggles and such a smooth swing. Plus no-one is more adept at slipping golfballs to unwitting children in the crowd.

7).The World Golf Hall of Fame made a couple of good choices in their "Class of 2015" by electing Laura Davies and AW Tillinghast (designer of Bethpage Black, Winged Foot, Ridgewood, Quaker Ridge, Baltusrol, etc etc - and Philadelphia Cricket Club, 22 yards of pitch and a pleasant ring of willows around the boundary edge?). What kept them out all these years?

8).But the choices of David Graham and Mark O'Meara to be "enshrined" with them seem a little more marginal.
1979 US Amateur Champ O'Meara was a top-level, never great, PGA Tour Pro, who won two Majors out of the blue in 1998, then spent the rest of his Tour career as mentor to Tiger.
King of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am (won 5 of 'em) and owner of an atrocious Ryder Cup record, he was also Tiger's spokesman in the pay-for-play row that marred the run-up to the 1999 action in Boston and thereafter terminally indignant as to whether that marred his chances of:
Ryder Cup Captaincy: "To be honest, I was a little disappointed I didn't even get considered."
Hall of Fame Election: Perhaps I'll get in: "When I stop playing? When I'm six feet under? When there's no-one left to put in?"
Get over it Mark, looks like Tiger put in a good word for you.

9).Talking of good words, what about David Graham, similarly a two-time Major Champion?
Seems like golfing mates and Preston Trail buddies Trevino and (possibly?) G.W.Bush put in a good word for him.
Graham went one further than Tom Watson when Presidents Cup Captain in that the insurrection against him occurred BEFORE the event! So much so that Peter Thomson had to be brought in to deputise!!
But if the WGHOF has been renamed the Hall of the Very Good with Couples and Montgomerie, Graham and O'Meara, it doesn't diminish the quality of Graham's signature (US Open) win at Merion, described by Hogan as the "greatest round of golf I've ever witnessed".

10).Back to The McGladrey then.
European presence is confined to the usuals, but given the number of Europeans living so close to Sea Island it's a shame that guys like Donald and McDowell (both with good records up the coast at Hilton Head) don't show up to kick-start their season in advance of HSBC Champions play.
The star of the TV broadcasts will undoubtedly be the Seaside course, and I'm expecting a relatively local lad to win the trophy, perhaps another first-time winner. Hudson Swafford maybe, recently a Top 25 machine, while my shilling each-way will be on Scott Brown, but the course should suit Knox, not to mention Bill Haas and Kirk; and Webb Simpson who fumbled his way to a play-off loss to Ben Crane a few years ago and has a great record here.
But I'd love to be a fly on the golf-bag of Haas or Simpson when they discuss Captain Watson and Text-gate.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down


PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Wed 29 Oct 2014, 11:09 am

Well said Plunky,
Completely agree about the GC, and you can throw in the newly dumbed-down Golf Digest in there as well.

PS: Have also noticed T.Furyk's web.com commercial! J.Furyk's parting seems to be in the same place thru'out!!

Bob,
Can't help feeling that the same members of the PGA gentry who ultimately threw Bishop out were exactly the same as stood by and "admired" (benefitted from?) his controversial, but ultimately progressive ways, for the past two years.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Bob_the_Job Wed 29 Oct 2014, 12:03 pm

I agree Kwini - but the night of the long knives is nothing new in business. I guess the point I was trying to make was he asked for trouble by acting stupidly, regardless of the content of his stupidity.
Bob_the_Job
Bob_the_Job

Posts : 1344
Join date : 2011-02-09
Location : NI

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Wed 29 Oct 2014, 12:18 pm

For sure!

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren Wed 29 Oct 2014, 12:44 pm

Kwini

Did you notice that the guy who won last week uses the baseball grip, so all his fingers on the grip. I wonder if anyone has ever one on tour with that grip before?
McLaren
McLaren

Posts : 17491
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Wed 29 Oct 2014, 12:55 pm

Hi Mac,
I never notice such things, but read about it later.
I'm sure there are quite a few, plus myself of course, tho' mine is a cricket grip.

Ed Fiori, well known Tiger conqueror, was known as "The Grip"; don't specifically know of any others, but there must be a few.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz Wed 29 Oct 2014, 3:45 pm

Kwini... you've forwarded a theory that perhaps there was more to the Bishop thing than just this latest issue. Interesting in that I had a conversation with someone who agreed with you... but from an entirely different direction than I ever expected.

His belief was that the Bishop ousting was a Bevaqua deal from start to finish. He believes the PGA of A "culture" was/is that presidents are supposed to come in and be nothing more than a "titular" head of the organization, limited to promoting initiatives and basically being mouth pieces for permanent STAFF who really run things.  But Bishop didn't necessarily play by those rules because he actually stepped out of line by trying to lead and initiate action, instead of just follow the professional paid staff.  Apparently that didn't sit to well with "management"... and when Bishop gave Bevaqua a silver platter opportunity.. he took it.

My friend used the Nagy example of how the USGA is very much the same.... and used the Bishop vs Davis & Dawson "anchoring" dust up as an example as one that the "angst" between the organizations in that one was as much management types at the USGA and R&A against a PGA of A president that needed to understand his place and just STFU.

And by the way... my friend is one that while he somewhat liked Bishop... believes that the competence of the PGA of A hierarchy really IS within the paid professional staff, and as long as the elected positions are for only two years... the elected officials SHOULD be nothing more than "titular" heads and subservient to the CEO and his team.

Anyway... not sure what I think about all this yet... but thinking back to the anchoring debate, Nagy, and what happened this last week... I have to admit it kinda "fits".

robopz

Posts : 3603
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock Wed 29 Oct 2014, 4:03 pm

Robo - That's some very interesting insight, thank you for sharing.

Shotrock

Posts : 3901
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Wed 29 Oct 2014, 4:16 pm

robo,
I think I speculated that it might be a "lifetime achievement award" from the PGA when I first (belatedly as I was travelling) heard of it, and this seemed to be addressed fairly succinctly by Steve Eubanks in a column drilled down from Shotrock's earlier link.
Hadn't suspected there might have been a conspiracy though, more that the gallows had been erected and hangman appointed, presumably hoping they could be stood down when the Bishop returned to his diocese in December.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz Wed 29 Oct 2014, 5:08 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
I think I speculated that it might be a "lifetime achievement award" from the PGA when I first (belatedly as I was travelling) heard of it, and this seemed to be addressed fairly succinctly by Steve Eubanks in a column drilled down from Shotrock's earlier link.
Hadn't suspected there might have been a conspiracy though, more that the gallows had been erected and hangman appointed, presumably hoping they could be stood down when the Bishop returned to his diocese in December.
If I made it sound like a conspiracy... that wasn't my intent.  I hadn't read the Eubanks piece... but it's actually consistent with what I was trying to relay, or at least told to me.  

The only part of this that is "new" to me (but i must admit makes some sense) was the view that this was perhaps more of a situation of "staff" asserting themselves in more of a power move instead of just the membership reacting to the actual issue at hand. (hmmmm.... OK... maybe there is some conspiracy in that if true) But in any regard,  IMO evidence of how Sprague was supposedly initially on Bishop's side in wanting to "work through this", but then was turned to be Bishop's worst nightmare, is an indication "something" happened.  

And it's also consistent with the Nager ouster at the USGA. Even though Nager didn't do anything as publicly ignorant as Bishop, his was also a case of having burned bridges by going against a status quo. (even though Nager's situation was somewhat opposite of Bishop in that Nager wanted to have  qualified professional administrators hired permanently to run the USGA instead of the "good ole boy" network that produced Davis/O'Toole).  But for both Nager and Bishop... the end result of going against the long ingrained status quo was in effect the same... Nager is in permanent exile at the USGA same as Bishop is with the PGA of A.  Just lucky for Nager he was able to exit without the public humiliation Bishop brought (and/or had foisted) upon himself.

robopz

Posts : 3603
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro Wed 29 Oct 2014, 8:45 pm

Think Poulter should have reacted to Bishop's tweet like the always classy Rio Ferdinand.
http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/29826136

pedro

Posts : 7353
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts Wed 29 Oct 2014, 9:02 pm

Ah yes. The Ferdinand who was up in arms re. comments that John Terry allegedly made about his brother. Not remotely surprised. A berk and, apparently, another who shouldn't be throwing stones while in glass houses.
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11017
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Wed 29 Oct 2014, 9:11 pm

Not the same Rio Ferdinand who slammed Man Utd about disrespecting him by not offering a new contract, has dawdled his way out of even 'Arry's Game, is apparently retiring which suggests Man Utd had it right all along, and is now cooling his heels in the FA pokey?
Pity the FA/QPR/BBC didn't take a leaf out of the PGA's book and expunge his name from all records and employment.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro Wed 29 Oct 2014, 10:00 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
Pity the FA/QPR/BBC didn't take a leaf out of the PGA's book and expunge his name from all records and employment.
I'm sure he'll take care of that himself.

pedro

Posts : 7353
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Plunky Thu 30 Oct 2014, 10:31 am

If anyone's interested in reading what I think probably represents the views of the majority of women golfers re the Bishop fiasco, try googling "Why Ted Bishops gaffe doesn't offend me the way some people think it should". Sorry, couldn't figure out how to paste a link on my I-pad. It's Stina Sternberg in a Golf Digest blog. She hits the nail on the head for me. (Have to say though that I've been really impressed by some women's locker rooms in England, so maybe some of her comments are more US rather than UK.)

Plunky

Posts : 497
Join date : 2011-12-10
Age : 64
Location : Cape Cod

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Davie Thu 30 Oct 2014, 10:53 am

Link here for those interested

http://www.golfdigest.com/blogs/the-loop/2014/10/why-ted-bishops-gaffe-doesnt-o.html

Davie

Posts : 7821
Join date : 2011-01-27
Age : 63
Location : Berkshire

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Bob_the_Job Thu 30 Oct 2014, 11:17 am

Plunky wrote:If anyone's interested in reading what I think probably represents the views of the majority of women golfers re the Bishop fiasco, try googling "Why Ted Bishops gaffe doesn't offend me the way some people think it should".  Sorry, couldn't figure out how to paste a link on my I-pad.  It's Stina Sternberg in a Golf Digest blog.  She hits the nail on the head for me.  (Have to say though that I've been really impressed by some women's locker rooms in England, so maybe some of her comments are more US rather than UK.)    

Not a bad article.  In my club women have the same right's to the time sheet for weekend competitions as men, their locker room is the more or less the same size as the men's (despite there being a lot fewer female members). I've never had an instance of a group of women playing faster than my group but I have no issue letting faster groups through regardless of gender (although I suspect the people who don't call faster groups through are also not gender biased, so will continue to play on obliviously).

The one bit that kind of confused me was "And I hate that 95 percent of golf course design is patently unfair to female players".  What?  How?  Is that not what ladies tee's and a separate standard scratch for ladies is all about?
Bob_the_Job
Bob_the_Job

Posts : 1344
Join date : 2011-02-09
Location : NI

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist Thu 30 Oct 2014, 11:25 am

I hate that a dog leg left to right design doesn't suit my shot making ability.

You know what I should do if that's the case? Learn how to play the shot!

Courses are not designed with a gender in mind. It isn't supposed to be easy, you are supposed to develop the game to cope with what is laid out in front, not the other way around. Isn't that the challenge of golf?

Most courses have plenty of tee choices available. I don't really see any course as being male specific. THere are plenty of men who should play off reds and there are plenty of women who could play off the so-called mens tees.
Trouble is they are considered gender specific, they ought to be ability specific.

super_realist

Posts : 28800
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Bob_the_Job Thu 30 Oct 2014, 11:29 am

Also "95%" sounds like a totally made up number.
Bob_the_Job
Bob_the_Job

Posts : 1344
Join date : 2011-02-09
Location : NI

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Thu 30 Oct 2014, 11:48 am

Plunky,
I agree with most of that, even agree that "forward" tees often seem to be an afterthought. Due to age, and the infirmity of my golf game, I usually use a forward tee if the alternative is 6,200+yds or has lengthy forced carries. Some of those tees, whatever course I've used them on, are in ridiculous positions - of club convenience more than golfing aesthetics. Don't like that at all.

But I find complaints about "my club" ridiculous - why join a "club" that clearly goes out of its way not to cater to your needs? Whether that's male/female, dress code, affordability, you name it. 'Course, I've never joined a private club either, can't see I'd ever want to.

Good article though.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Plunky Thu 30 Oct 2014, 1:50 pm

I've never joined a club either and I think her 95% is definitely a made-up number, although i don't know where she plays.  Maybe she's referring to the distances between various tees rather than the kind of shot required.  I've played some courses where there's a nice break between the tees, and others where it's virtually nothing.  If the red tees are only a few feet in front of the white tees on a long par 4 or a par 5, then I'm probably going to have to hit more shots than the guys I'm playing with, so we may take a little longer to play the hole.

There's a course we play on Cape Cod where they have recently installed a set of green tees on the same tee box as the reds but a little bit behind them.  Apparently the green tees have been a big sucess with shorter hitting men who would not play from the reds, and the overall pace of play has improved !

Plunky

Posts : 497
Join date : 2011-12-10
Age : 64
Location : Cape Cod

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro Thu 30 Oct 2014, 10:19 pm

First it was Zinger who could fix Tiger's swing in 10 minutes. Now Player can do it in one hour.
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/player-hour-spent-woods-could-yield-majors/
Judging from this I would say it'd in fact take ~35 minutes to fix it.

pedro

Posts : 7353
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro Thu 30 Oct 2014, 10:20 pm

Is this Freddie accepting the gig?
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/couples-us-needs-less-task-force-more-fun/

pedro

Posts : 7353
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Thu 30 Oct 2014, 10:46 pm

It would be a HUGE about-turn for the PGA to go to Fred; a possibility perhaps, but highly unlikely. Azinger would be much shorter odds.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist Fri 31 Oct 2014, 6:57 am

pedro wrote:First it was Zinger who could fix Tiger's swing in 10 minutes. Now Player can do it in one hour.
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/player-hour-spent-woods-could-yield-majors/
Judging from this I would say it'd in fact take ~35 minutes to fix it.


The brain transplant takes much longer.

super_realist

Posts : 28800
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts Fri 31 Oct 2014, 10:47 am

pedro wrote:First it was Zinger who could fix Tiger's swing in 10 minutes. Now Player can do it in one hour.
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/player-hour-spent-woods-could-yield-majors/
Judging from this I would say it'd in fact take ~35 minutes to fix it.
picard Is he serious?? Someone get Player checked for dementia...
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11017
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Bob_the_Job Fri 31 Oct 2014, 12:32 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:It would be a HUGE about-turn for the PGA to go to Fred; a possibility perhaps, but highly unlikely. Azinger would be much shorter odds.

An even bigger about turn now he seems to be rubbishing most of what's currently being done to "improve the US of A's performance"
Bob_the_Job
Bob_the_Job

Posts : 1344
Join date : 2011-02-09
Location : NI

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Fri 31 Oct 2014, 12:55 pm

Interesting that Couples was extolling the qualities of Mickelson as having been by far the best Team Member he'd experienced - and apparently Phil warned the Bishop before the Scottish Open that Watson was aloof and not engaging with prospective Team members.

Lanny Wadkins was commentating on the Seniors last night and pretty much pooh-poohed (how do you spell that?) Freddie as Captain, saying he was not the most organized person and hopeless to communicate with - "he won't pick up the phone in case there's someone there", etc.

Can't see Fred getting it myself, but the American press is digging up all sorts of legendary has-beens to offer their 2 cents, including Lord Nicklaus who seems to be in Watson's court - the "players just weren't good enough", which is true but obviously not the full story.
Plus Nicklaus was so hopelessly out-skippered by Tony Jacklin in 1987 it was clear then that he didn't have a clue.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts Fri 31 Oct 2014, 3:14 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Interesting that Couples was extolling the qualities of Mickelson as having been by far the best Team Member he'd experienced - and apparently Phil warned the Bishop before the Scottish Open that Watson was aloof and not engaging with prospective Team members.

Lanny Wadkins was commentating on the Seniors last night and pretty much pooh-poohed (how do you spell that?) Freddie as Captain, saying he was not the most organized person and hopeless to communicate with - "he won't pick up the phone in case there's someone there", etc.

Can't see Fred getting it myself, but the American press is digging up all sorts of legendary has-beens to offer their 2 cents, including Lord Nicklaus who seems to be in Watson's court - the "players just weren't good enough", which is true but obviously not the full story.
Plus Nicklaus was so hopelessly out-skippered by Tony Jacklin in 1987 it was clear then that he didn't have a clue.
Lanny Wadkins - now there's someone the US players could do with channeling in future. Maybe Top5 will be a modern equivalent...
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 11017
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Fri 31 Oct 2014, 3:44 pm

If Top Five is half as good to watch (and good to watch having his Team stuffed in 1995) as Lanny, he'll have done himself proud!

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock Fri 31 Oct 2014, 3:57 pm

All this captain's speculation is a bit like reorganizing the deck chairs on the Titanic, IMO.

The RC will only become more competitive when the US puts forth a team with the golfing skill to compete with the stronger European team. I certainly didn't think they would be very competitive this year and, of course, they were not.

Not that also having an aloof, ineffective Captain is mutually exclusive. That certainly did not help.

A lot can happen in 2 years ... but I still envision (predict I should say) the European team stronger than the US Squad in Minn-a-snowta. (Where I used to live, and where summer is sometimes described as two weeks of bad ice skating.)

Shotrock

Posts : 3901
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Fri 31 Oct 2014, 4:01 pm

Sr,
We've talked a lot on this forum of European cultures growing up playing "Team" sports and thought it was an American weakness that that doesn't really apply here. Any change to your counterpoints on that?

"bad ice skating"? bad curling, surely?

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock Fri 31 Oct 2014, 4:12 pm

Kwin - Nope ... I have not changed my opinion on that at all. The US successes at the recent World Cup and the World Basketball Championships ... not to mention the Olympic and other international play the US teams continue to pile on (swimming, track, but NOT speedskating this time) ... all keep my opinion steady. I've been fortunate enough to play team sports much of my life and my kids are in the middle of more of the same. (It's certainly helped me build my business, but I'm off tangent here ...)

Top US Golfers simply don't have the talent to compete with the Europeans right now. Team building won't help, IMO!

I am really amused by this "task force" idea.  Rolling Eyes

Happy to report Curling season has started!

Shotrock

Posts : 3901
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Fri 31 Oct 2014, 4:18 pm

But half the US World Cup team grew up in Europe!
Basketball the only true team sport the children grow up with - the remainder, and my lad/lass played most of them, State Champs in two, are just individual sports in a team structure.

Seeing it as part of everyday life here, I think there's a lot to it, and brought out at RC time. It's not team building, it's TEAM being in your DNA, that's a serious difference.

(PS: I used to love the "There's no I in Yzerman" Red Wing mantra!)

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist Fri 31 Oct 2014, 4:22 pm

Of course America play team sports, however I think their problems lies in two areas.

1) They don't really play any sports in which they have a true International rivalry with anyone, certainly not one the American golfers can relate to or gain inspiration from.

2) Despite having team sports, they still place a great deal of emphasis on individual performance, hence MVP etc.

I don't think there is any doubt that the American golfers are on a par when it comes to talent, but they simply don't seem to understand or feed off of the "team" element the way Europe does. America look like a team of individuals, Europe just look like a team and act like one.


super_realist

Posts : 28800
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock Fri 31 Oct 2014, 4:30 pm

Well ... we're certainly all entitled to our own opinion!

Remember, the Ryder Cup before this, the US won the "team" portion. The US "team" won the Walker Cup recently ... and the US "team" dominated GB/I when the RC was just that. US team dominates the President's Cup. The "Team Chemistry" stuff is overrated when the player's skill set is just too strong.

Plenty of team in my DNA Kwin!

Shotrock

Posts : 3901
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Philadelphia

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist Fri 31 Oct 2014, 4:37 pm

Sr, you are aware that the Walker Cup is US v GB&I aren't you? America is 5 times bigger than GB&I in population. I'd expect them to win almost every time.

In regards to the Presidents Cup, America might be a poor RC team, but they appear to be a at least a stronger unit than a disparate bunch of strangers from the ROI who play like they've never even met one another, and in some cases, that could be true.

The team element is pretty big and certainly a factor, although America have a habit of round pegs and square holes as well as a myriad of stupid decision makers.

Team isn't everything, but in a team game, it's a pretty big part.

No one is going to convince me that Jamie Donaldson is more talented than Mickelson or that Poulter is a better player than Furyk. Individual talent is not irrelevant, but it means nothing if you can't put it into a team context, and it seems America really struggle to do that.


Last edited by super_realist on Fri 31 Oct 2014, 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

super_realist

Posts : 28800
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Stavanger, Norway

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Fri 31 Oct 2014, 4:41 pm

ROW as bad as US in some Captaincy issues.
Norman couldn't get some of his Asian players to show up at Royal Melbourne in time for proper practice rounds.
Don't imagine Nick Price will have much more luck in Korea next year.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro Fri 31 Oct 2014, 11:55 pm

Just a proof that there's focus on team sports in th US.  clap  picard
PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Image11

pedro

Posts : 7353
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Sat 01 Nov 2014, 12:15 am

Precisely!
Glad Northern New England and New York have higher aspirations.

But the people who will ensure Republicans take control of the country surely know where their priorities lie.

EDIT: Because these are public employees, all the "coaches" maxing out their income are, by definition, University Coaches, making their gazillions whilst ensuring their players earn nothing, not one cent, except a College education which, as recent allegations suggest, are anything but rigorous, in many cases phoney.
Who gives a monkey's what happens if the Pro game doesn't work out for these athletes or, worse still become injured or handicapped? Certainly not their College coaches. It's the American way, make your millions whilst making sure the poor stay that way.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Plunky Sat 01 Nov 2014, 1:43 am

Never seen that before ! What would a similar county by county map of the UK look like ? Talking of coaches, have any college golf coaches been tagged for the US RC task force ? They have experience of team play, dealing with the odd ego etc.

Plunky

Posts : 497
Join date : 2011-12-10
Age : 64
Location : Cape Cod

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer Sat 01 Nov 2014, 10:48 am

I don't think so Plunky, but College Coach name I've seen put forward the most by the punditry is Mike Krzyzewski!
Older than Watson and never played golf. Other than that a perfect choice!!

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher - Page 4 Empty Re: PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside Course: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 4 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum