For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

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For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by aussieboyz on Thu 23 Oct 2014, 9:20 am

Lyon is 0 for 127 in UAE as I write this article.
what a rubbish bowler. he just does not
look like getting a wicket, even on a
spinnerˊs pitch.
He also failed to take wickets on 4th, 5th day
pitch during the test series in SA and the last ashes
in Australia.
For Australiaˊs sake, drop him and stick with
Steven Okeefe.


Last edited by aussieboyz on Thu 23 Oct 2014, 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : miss spelling)

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 23 Oct 2014, 10:14 am

Aussieboyz - I'm not the best person to judge here as I haven't followed Lyon's recent performances (or those of his rivals for a Test place). However, he's previously impressed me as a valuable supporting player. His contributions against England deserve to have given him some credit in the bank.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by freemo on Thu 23 Oct 2014, 2:34 pm

O'Keefe hasn't exactly set the world alight either..

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by aussieboyz on Thu 23 Oct 2014, 2:44 pm

freemo wrote:O'Keefe hasn't exactly set the world alight either..

Okeefe Has a better first class bowling record than lyon and
he can bat as well.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by Mike Selig on Thu 23 Oct 2014, 7:01 pm

Lyon has been doing absolutely fine as a supporting player. Harsh and a bit daft to judge him on one innings. He's never going to set the world alight but he has chipped in with vital wickets at crucial times, scored some decent runs down the order and taken some excellent catches. He has been by a long shot Australia's best spinner since Warne (and for my money has looked a million miles superior to Doherty in the ODI stuff as well), and unless there is something obviously a lot better than him waiting in the wings then it would be stupid to go back to the revolving door policy which so harmed Australia at the start of the decade (remember Doherty, Beer, Casson, McGain et al?). Muirhead would be one to watch maybe.

O'Keefe looked OK from what I saw, but hardly a world beater either. Looks like he will rely more on assistance from the pitch than Lyon as he has less loop and variation.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by freemo on Fri 24 Oct 2014, 3:56 pm

Muirehad has gone backwards since the big bash to be honest...Lyon is the best they have at the moment, and there's clearly some knee-jerking going on here..

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by aussieboyz on Sat 25 Oct 2014, 6:16 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Lyon has been doing absolutely fine as a supporting player. Harsh and a bit daft to judge him on one innings. He's never going to set the world alight but he has chipped in with vital wickets at crucial times, scored some decent runs down the order and taken some excellent catches. He has been by a long shot Australia's best spinner since Warne (and for my money has looked a million miles superior to Doherty in the ODI stuff as well), and unless there is something obviously a lot better than him waiting in the wings then it would be stupid to go back to the revolving door policy which so harmed Australia at the start of the decade (remember Doherty, Beer, Casson, McGain et al?). Muirhead would be one to watch maybe.

O'Keefe looked OK from what I saw, but hardly a world beater either. Looks like he will rely more on assistance from the pitch than Lyon as he has less loop and variation.

lyon has match bowling figure of 2 for 220. That is just pathetic on a spinnerˊs track.
This is his 34th test match and he is still a mediocre bowler.
Okeefe at least has taken 4 for 219 in this match, which is his debut test match.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by Jetty on Sun 26 Oct 2014, 2:59 am

I am a big O'Keefe fan from the time he played in a warm up game against England. I would prefer to watch him bowl than Lyon but in Tests when only one spinner is needed I doubt he would replace Lyon. Sad

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by kingraf on Tue 28 Oct 2014, 8:11 am

4-219 is hardly anything to write home about. I'm sure Lyon has enough credit to not get replaced for this showing.
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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by alfie on Tue 28 Oct 2014, 9:56 am

Lyon had a poor match. But you don't drop a regular batsman every time he makes 0 and twenty ; so why would you want to get rid of Lyon ? He has done a pretty useful job for Australia over the last year or two ...if "Best since Warne" only serves to underline what Australia has been missing since the great leg spinner retired , it remains true.
Lyon put a stop to the revolving door policy on Australian spin selections ; and I doubt Clarke or Lehmann would be enthusiastic about returning to that plan on the strength of one under-par effort.
O'Keefe didn't tear down any trees in any case.
They'll presumably both play in Abu Dhabi.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by aussieboyz on Thu 30 Oct 2014, 3:18 pm

another rubbish bowling display by lyon . 1 for 86.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by aussieboyz on Fri 31 Oct 2014, 11:58 am

now lyon has match figure of 1 wicket for 154.
steve smith has 1 for 41.

say no more. Lyon should be dropped.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by freemo on Fri 31 Oct 2014, 6:31 pm

troll

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by kingraf on Fri 31 Oct 2014, 8:09 pm

Lyon isn't playing in a vacuum, mate. You can't drop a spinner who's done a job for you just because the part timer took 1/41. I mean, jeez, you're hard to please. I'd also argue that a large part of the difference in success between Lyon and the Pakistaní spinners is
- there is a gap in spin playing ability between the two countries. I mean nearly half the wickets the person of Asian descent bowlers have taken didn't actually turn. Yes, they deserve credit for realising this and taking advantage, but the Aussies have been abhorrent
- it's also a lot easier to bowl spin when you have 500 in the kitty.
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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by aussieboyz on Fri 31 Oct 2014, 10:21 pm

kingraf wrote:Lyon isn't playing in a vacuum, mate. You can't drop a spinner who's done a job for you just because the part timer took 1/41.  I mean, jeez, you're hard to please. I'd also argue that a large part of the difference in success between Lyon and the Pakistaní spinners is
- there is a gap in spin playing ability between the two countries.      I mean nearly half the wickets the person of Asian descent bowlers have taken didn't actually turn. Yes, they deserve credit for realising this and taking advantage, but the Aussies have been abhorrent
- it's also a lot easier to bowl spin when you have 500 in the kitty.

He was also outbowled by test debutant steven okeefe in the first test as well , so what is your excuse for this?
In 2014, lyon has taken 14 test wickets from 6 tests with a bowling average of 58. That is simply not good enough.

His overall first-class record for this year is in fact worse than for Tests alone - 16 wickets at 58.75 - and was not helped by a match against India A in Brisbane in July, when he leaked 147 from 30 overs for no wickets.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by Gerry SA on Sat 01 Nov 2014, 9:56 pm

Nathan Lyon's only reallt effective when the quicks are rampaging at the other end. As batsmen try to smash him about(easier trying to smash a spinner than Mitch Johnson) and he picks up a few cheap wickets.

Lyon isn't good enough.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by alfie on Sun 02 Nov 2014, 12:36 am

Think Gerry is a bit hard on Lyon in dismissing him so lightly.

I don't think he is a world beater ; but he is a generally reliable foil for the Johnson & Harris combination - and clearly the best spinner Australia have unearthed for several years.

If he "isn't good enough" then Australian cricket has a serious problem because I'm not sure who else can fill the spinner's position in the foreseeable future.

Actually watched Fawad Ahmed yesterday at the 'G ; and he certainly bowled some big turners in collecting three wickets against NSW. (He also bowled some pies which finished up several rows back) but it occurred to me he might have been a reasonable punt for this UAE tour. I don't see him as a candidate for the role of sole spinner on pitches outside Asia though.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by Gerry SA on Sun 02 Nov 2014, 12:49 am

alfie wrote:Think Gerry is a bit hard on Lyon in dismissing him so lightly.

I don't think he is a world beater ; but he is a generally reliable foil for the Johnson & Harris combination - and clearly the best spinner Australia have unearthed for several years.

If he "isn't good enough" then Australian cricket has a serious problem because I'm not sure who else can fill the spinner's position in the foreseeable future.

Actually watched Fawad Ahmed yesterday at the 'G ; and he certainly bowled some big turners in collecting three wickets against NSW. (He also bowled some pies which finished up several rows back) but it occurred to me he might have been a reasonable punt for this UAE tour. I don't see him as a candidate for the role of sole spinner on pitches outside Asia though.
TBH Alfie, Australia are in the same boat the Proteas where around 5/6 years ago. World class quick bowlers but issues around the spinners. 

We used to have Paul Harris. Not a world beater by any stretch, but he bowled tightly so Biff could rotate the quicks. 
This is why I think Steve O'Keefe should've be given another go. His FC record is brilliant and he's a SLA, therefore in theory he can bowl the negative line to frustrate the opposition when nothing's happening. 

I still fail to see Lyon as being better then Hauritz.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by aussieboyz on Sun 02 Nov 2014, 9:47 am

now lyon has 2nd inning bowling figure of 0 wicket for 48.
steve smith has 1 for 54. lyon has match figure of 1 tor 202.

So he has been outbowled by steven smith in both innings, who is a part time
spinner at best.

what can one say.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by kingraf on Sun 02 Nov 2014, 10:23 am

Steve Smith went at nine an over...
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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by aussieboyz on Sun 02 Nov 2014, 10:31 am

lyon is rubbish. Very Happy

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by kingraf on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 6:35 am

.... mhmm
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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 8:53 am

I see that Raf has beaten me to this thread. I've never made claims as to Lyon's greatness and, despite his 12 Test match wickets now, I still don't. However, I do maintain his importance to the Australian team and am pleased for him that that has been so well demonstrated today. That's the real point - ups and downs are part and parcel of the game, over reacting in the manner of the opening article helps no one.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by Mike Selig on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 11:57 am

I was tempted, then thought "nah that would be immature"... But you guys did Very Happy

What guildford said. Lyon played a vital role over the last couple of years for Aus. Not that his figures were outstanding by any means, but then again his figures maybe didn't reflect the important of his role (for example how often was he taken off after getting a wicket or two to allow Mitch and co to blast the tail away?). To dismiss him on the basis of 2 poor tests was just plain daft.

I do feel he's a very different bowler to Paul Harris: the latter was essentially a containing figure whereas Lyon is much more aggressive, and I feel actually bowls less well when batsmen come after him.

Still the best since Warne for me (not that that's saying that much). Incidentally I always thought Hauritz got a bit of a raw deal and was ditched far too readily. Thankfully although there have been the odd flirtations Aus do seem happy to stick with Lyon for a bit.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by freemo on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 6:12 pm

they have to drop Lyon...anyone who takes 12 wickets in a test match must be awful!!!!!!!!!!!!

I notice the author of this thread, has gone quiet..

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by The Loaded Dog on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 8:14 pm

It's embarrassing isn't it, freemo... or CF?

I understand we are entitled to have our doubts about a particular player. I was not doubting... but you could say I was beginning to worry. However, I knew he had the drive to keep trying until things changed for the better and I'm so pleased it has worked out well for him. He deserved this 12-wicket haul. An amazing performance!

One thing people may have underestimated is the fight and determination in the guy.
It must not have been easy at all coming from a series where he only took 3 wickets and averaged 144 or so. So, I can see where Aussieboyz was coming from (in a sense) but certainly wouldn't entertain the proposition to "drop Lyon". That would be too extreme.

Nice name, btw... is there more than one of you or are your referring to our team?
It would have been better if you had thought things through more realistically.

What makes this especially pleasing is that for Nathan Lyon to return home to his own piece of turf... one that he would have spent hours and days and months going over and over... and then producing what he did yesterday. I suppose that is the dream come true for him.

It would be great to see him bowling in tandem with Boyce or Muirhead in future matches. Take a load off him. He deserves it.
That, along with our stock of frighteningly good pace bowlers would pretty much cover all bases in the bowling department.

Then they could concentrate on getting their batting in better order. Smile
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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 28 Jul 2016, 2:41 pm

200 Test wickets now taken by Nathan Lyon. Not the greatest but one of the most valuable. clap clap

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Thu 28 Jul 2016, 7:08 pm

I'm with you on that Guildford! Lyon's proved a very valuable player on numerous occasions.  His strike rate of 62 is very acceptable - it's not so very far behind Murali (55), Warne (57.4) and Swan (60.1) and is ahead of Kumble (65.9), Herath (64.6) and Vettori (79.5).

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by KP_fan on Thu 28 Jul 2016, 7:37 pm

Lyon is a very steady , whole hearted honest performer.

His SR of close to 63 while very acceptable his average of nearly 33 is just a shade higher the top class spinners.

BUT...he gets his wickets largely in Aus...unlike  Murali, Kumble, Herath and Swann...who got a lot of games on spinning ptiches ...and unlike many others on this list he is at best 4th bowler and sometimes the 5th and...while many on the list are the 3rd or sometimes 2nd bowlers on the list

BTW--> Moeen as a the 5th bowler has a SR of 64 Wink

PS* Warne with a SR of 57 and average of 25 and not majorly on spinning pitches is THE KING
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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 29 Jul 2016, 9:30 am

So just to round up this week on 606...
Ali is a "remarkable" spinner despite having a much worse average and economy rate (and a worse strike rate) than Lyon who is "steady" and "acceptable"

Ali isnt the fifth bowler for England. Hes picked as a specialist lead spinner and would be in the side even if they went with just 4. His batting isnt as good ad Stokes who is the all rounder / fifth bowler (and usually gets less overs) , and argualbly woakes too.

If England are going to be a real number one test side and compete well in India they really need to get a better lead spinner than Ali. Lyon might not be the most exciting player or a Shane Warne but hes easily the best Aus have unearthed in well over a decade and to my mind would walk into the England side.

Theres only a handfull of non asian offspinners to have taken as many test wickets as him.


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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 29 Jul 2016, 9:42 am

Gooseberry - Ali is certainly a highly remarked upon spinner as you constantly go on about him apart from when he's taking wickets.

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Re: For Australiaˊs sake, drop nathan lyon

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