R2D Too..
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ralphjohn69
1GrumpyGolfer
SmithersJones
GPB
kwinigolfer
MustPuttBetter
raycastleunited
Davie
super_realist
McLaren
navyblueshorts
hend085
beninho
Bob_the_Job
18 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Golf
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R2D Too..
Congratulations to Rory McIlroy on winning the R2D again.
Anyone else feel it was a bit anticlimactic that he won this weekend without competing? So unlike Stenson's efforts and drama last year.
Is an in-form McIlroy just too strong for the rest of the European field? Do the majors have too big an impact on the points?
Anyone else feel it was a bit anticlimactic that he won this weekend without competing? So unlike Stenson's efforts and drama last year.
Is an in-form McIlroy just too strong for the rest of the European field? Do the majors have too big an impact on the points?
Bob_the_Job- Posts : 1344
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Re: R2D Too..
If someone who wins 2 out of 4 majors, a WGC and the European Tours flagship event, does not wrap up the R2D early and convincingly, then they have flaws in the system. He has clearly been the best player on both tours this (last) season. He should have wrapped the Fedex up aswell, but that is not about finding the best player of the season, just the best for a few weeks.
beninho- Posts : 6854
Join date : 2011-01-28
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Re: R2D Too..
i thought previously you had to play in 3 of the last 4 events to be eligible for it? something along those lines if not exactly that.
hend085- Posts : 1001
Join date : 2011-06-17
Re: R2D Too..
Yep. Congrats to McIlroy but it shows what a waste of time the R2D is...or at least, how flawed it is as a spectacle. May as well get the other players in the Final to simply form a guard of honour, drivers overhead, for McIlroy to parade down.
Imagine this year is a bit of an anachronism but what if he has a similarly strong year in 2016?
Imagine this year is a bit of an anachronism but what if he has a similarly strong year in 2016?
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: R2D Too..
Thanks for raising this bob. I was thinking that an interesting debate could be had comparing the R2D and the fedex cup. I have always argued that the fedex is far too contrived, which I still beleive despite seeing such an anticlimactic end to the R2D.
As ben has mentioned above someone who has had a season like Mcilroys should not have to beat a player who is only playing well for a couple of weeks in a row to be crowned the seasons best player. No doubt Americans who are used to the dumbed down - commercially driven - playoff system are ok with the fedex, but here in europe a false final is not needed.
Just look how poorly double points in the last race of the season in f1 has been recieved!
As ben has mentioned above someone who has had a season like Mcilroys should not have to beat a player who is only playing well for a couple of weeks in a row to be crowned the seasons best player. No doubt Americans who are used to the dumbed down - commercially driven - playoff system are ok with the fedex, but here in europe a false final is not needed.
Just look how poorly double points in the last race of the season in f1 has been recieved!
McLaren- Posts : 17491
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: R2D Too..
McLaren wrote:Thanks for raising this bob. I was thinking that an interesting debate could be had comparing the R2D and the fedex cup. I have always argued that the fedex is far too contrived, which I still beleive despite seeing such an anticlimactic end to the R2D.
As ben has mentioned above someone who has had a season like Mcilroys should not have to beat a player who is only playing well for a couple of weeks in a row to be crowned the seasons best player. No doubt Americans who are used to the dumbed down - commercially driven - playoff system are ok with the fedex, but here in europe a false final is not needed.
Just look how poorly double points in the last race of the season in f1 has been recieved!
I'd laugh if Hamilton loses because of that. He's another one of sports' bumholes.
super_realist- Posts : 28800
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Re: R2D Too..
Not sure I understand why people moan about the Fedex finale (and R2D for that matter) - take them for what they are.
If anyone tried to claim that the Fedex winner was the best player of the year, then they are deluded - but take it as a contest where full season form goes a certain way to getting your place in the finals .. and to a lesser extent, giving you more chance of getting through to the end ... but that's it!
These events may be promoted in the wrong manner but the format is known to everyone. It's like the "champions league" where non-champions can get in.
Don't understand the fuss over the F1 double points either .. it's been known since the start of the season - it's just the rules. Get used to it
If anyone tried to claim that the Fedex winner was the best player of the year, then they are deluded - but take it as a contest where full season form goes a certain way to getting your place in the finals .. and to a lesser extent, giving you more chance of getting through to the end ... but that's it!
These events may be promoted in the wrong manner but the format is known to everyone. It's like the "champions league" where non-champions can get in.
Don't understand the fuss over the F1 double points either .. it's been known since the start of the season - it's just the rules. Get used to it
Davie- Posts : 7821
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Re: R2D Too..
I always liked R2D too. I was a bit annoyed with the Phantom Menace though, where they tried to overplay the anthropomorphism and gave him an award for bravery, he's supposed to be a robot FFS!
raycastleunited- Posts : 3373
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Re: R2D Too..
Ha ha excellent
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
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Re: R2D Too..
Davie
The fedex has ruined the money list, which was actually quite an interesting part of the season. A season long measure of play based on points is an improvement over the money list, but distorting the season in the way the fedex does is just daft and artificial.
The fedex has ruined the money list, which was actually quite an interesting part of the season. A season long measure of play based on points is an improvement over the money list, but distorting the season in the way the fedex does is just daft and artificial.
McLaren- Posts : 17491
Join date : 2011-01-27
Re: R2D Too..
Pretty good handful of winners so far:
Westwood, Karlsson, Quiros, McIlroy, Stenson.
Time they announced the final line-up: The "leading sixty available players" from the R2D points list. Can't be that difficult to find out who fancies turning up.
Plus: Q-School: How many cards to they issue?
Westwood, Karlsson, Quiros, McIlroy, Stenson.
Time they announced the final line-up: The "leading sixty available players" from the R2D points list. Can't be that difficult to find out who fancies turning up.
Plus: Q-School: How many cards to they issue?
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: R2D Too..
IMO, the FEDEX Cup is a brilliant design. No one suggests that Billy Horschel had the best season, but he did have the best month and the best final week.
Unless weather intervenes, PGAT and EuroT tournaments are decided in 4 rounds...not 3 rounds.
If Rory happens to shoot 59-59 in Round 1 and Round 2 and has a 15 shot lead going into the weekend, he still has to show up in Rounds 3 and 4 and win the golf tournament. If he gets hit by a bus, he doesn't win the golf tournament. And I don't think a yearlong competition should be decided without the performing in the finale.
The EuroT needs a point based system rather than money list. First place in the WGCs and Majors are more than the entire purse of many of the EuroT event. The FEX structure gives a 20% bonus for Majors and 10% bonus for WGCs over regular events and the ET should do something similar.
To give some USA sports analogies, the World Series is won in October, and not April-September. The SuperBowl is won on the first Sunday in February, not during September-December.
I think Rory should have fallen a few notches for not playing in the Run-up to finale. He still should be eligible to win it....but not be ahead, and let alone already clinched the R2D.
Unless weather intervenes, PGAT and EuroT tournaments are decided in 4 rounds...not 3 rounds.
If Rory happens to shoot 59-59 in Round 1 and Round 2 and has a 15 shot lead going into the weekend, he still has to show up in Rounds 3 and 4 and win the golf tournament. If he gets hit by a bus, he doesn't win the golf tournament. And I don't think a yearlong competition should be decided without the performing in the finale.
The EuroT needs a point based system rather than money list. First place in the WGCs and Majors are more than the entire purse of many of the EuroT event. The FEX structure gives a 20% bonus for Majors and 10% bonus for WGCs over regular events and the ET should do something similar.
To give some USA sports analogies, the World Series is won in October, and not April-September. The SuperBowl is won on the first Sunday in February, not during September-December.
I think Rory should have fallen a few notches for not playing in the Run-up to finale. He still should be eligible to win it....but not be ahead, and let alone already clinched the R2D.
GPB- Posts : 7283
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Re: R2D Too..
McLaren wrote:Thanks for raising this bob. I was thinking that an interesting debate could be had comparing the R2D and the fedex cup. I have always argued that the fedex is far too contrived, which I still beleive despite seeing such an anticlimactic end to the R2D.
As ben has mentioned above someone who has had a season like Mcilroys should not have to beat a player who is only playing well for a couple of weeks in a row to be crowned the seasons best player. No doubt Americans who are used to the dumbed down - commercially driven - playoff system are ok with the fedex, but here in europe a false final is not needed.
Just look how poorly double points in the last race of the season in f1 has been recieved!
I before E except after C, Mac. Quite an achievement to get that wrong both ways in one post. I agree with you entirely, though.
SmithersJones- Posts : 2094
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Re: R2D Too..
GPB,
You were going so well until you mentioned the World Series and SuperBowl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Their structure renders the months preceding them largely irrelevant (two teams who were also-rans during the past regular season contested the WS for instance, great entertainment tho' they provided) and neither is reflective of who is necessarily the best team. That is anathema to most sports fans in the ROTW.
That's OK with R2D and FedEx as the Majors are clearly the gold standard, probably with The Players and WGC's a couple of notches below.
Fortunately I would suggest that the six years of R2D have crowned the right man each time. No criticism of the FedEx intended.
You were going so well until you mentioned the World Series and SuperBowl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Their structure renders the months preceding them largely irrelevant (two teams who were also-rans during the past regular season contested the WS for instance, great entertainment tho' they provided) and neither is reflective of who is necessarily the best team. That is anathema to most sports fans in the ROTW.
That's OK with R2D and FedEx as the Majors are clearly the gold standard, probably with The Players and WGC's a couple of notches below.
Fortunately I would suggest that the six years of R2D have crowned the right man each time. No criticism of the FedEx intended.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: R2D Too..
I see the field now - looks like Casey might be the only absentee.
Dutiful parenting no doubt taking precedence over golf.
Just like the rest of us then??
Dutiful parenting no doubt taking precedence over golf.
Just like the rest of us then??
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
Join date : 2011-05-18
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Re: R2D Too..
Where did you find the field Kwini? Doesn't look like it's on the ET website yet and by my understanding there's five likely to miss out: Justin Rose, Louis Oosthuizen, Paul Casey, David Lipsky, and Oliver Wilson. All of these have played less than 14 ET events so far and according to the ET website
To Participate in the 2014 DP World Tour Championship, Dubai, a Ranked Member in Categories 1-15 must have already Participated in sufficient Race to Dubai Tournaments, such that when Participation in this tournament is added, he will have fulfilled his requirements of the minimum tournaments regulation.
1GrumpyGolfer- Posts : 3314
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Re: R2D Too..
Ah ha!
You're probably correct then Grumps; I found the purported "entry list" on the owgr web-site, and the four you mention were definitely listed. One thing about Lipsky and Wilson is that perhaps they played an adequate %age of events once they became exempt, but I'm speculating.
(PS: Bl00dy snow; hoped it would never come.)
You're probably correct then Grumps; I found the purported "entry list" on the owgr web-site, and the four you mention were definitely listed. One thing about Lipsky and Wilson is that perhaps they played an adequate %age of events once they became exempt, but I'm speculating.
(PS: Bl00dy snow; hoped it would never come.)
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: R2D Too..
kwinigolfer wrote:GPB,
Fortunately I would suggest that the six years of R2D have crowned the right man each time. No criticism of the FedEx intended.
Do you mean the years when the leading money winner was not a member of the European Tour?
GPB- Posts : 7283
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Re: R2D Too..
Which years would that be?
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: R2D Too..
Rose, Oosthuizen, and Casey have all played 13 events so far according to the R2D standings so to miss out by one event is a bit foolish. It would appear to be really silly for Rose as he's in 8th place in the bonus pool and Oosthuizen who's just outside of it in 20th place. Casey took the final spot in the standings.
Can't profess any knowledge of the system regarding Wilson and Lipsky but they have 8 events listed and occupy positions in the 50s.
We've had a little bit of snow, which was enough to close the course Friday and Saturday, and heavy rain now so any residual snow will be washed away.
Can't profess any knowledge of the system regarding Wilson and Lipsky but they have 8 events listed and occupy positions in the 50s.
We've had a little bit of snow, which was enough to close the course Friday and Saturday, and heavy rain now so any residual snow will be washed away.
1GrumpyGolfer- Posts : 3314
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Re: R2D Too..
Golf has loads short events. That is why a decent season long competition that meant something would be good. Football (soccer), rugby, f1 etc all have leagues that are based on a points system over a whole season.
A season long golf competition based on points - and not money - and not biased by a few final events would be really interesting.
A season long golf competition based on points - and not money - and not biased by a few final events would be really interesting.
McLaren- Posts : 17491
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Re: R2D Too..
I don't know for absolute certain, but both Oosty and Rose could well have missed intended events due to injury . . . . I'd be very surprised if they wanted to play but couldn't given that both missed Turkey.
kwinigolfer- Posts : 26476
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Re: R2D Too..
McLaren wrote:Davie
The fedex has ruined the money list, which was actually quite an interesting part of the season. A season long measure of play based on points is an improvement over the money list, but distorting the season in the way the fedex does is just daft and artificial.
You're not reading the rules Mac .. The money list is still a great way of determining who has had the best season. The Fedex is a series of tournaments that decides who wins the Fedex. A good season puts you in a good position .. and that's it. The winner of the Fedex is a worthy winner .. of the Fedex. Sounds like I'm repeating myself or stating the obvious .. but some people can't see the obvious
Fedex winner is the (deserved) winner of the Fedex series .. under the rules of that tournament. Money list winner is probably the best player of the season.
No one tries to claim the FA Cup winner is the best team in the PL - why should this be any different?
Davie- Posts : 7821
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Re: R2D Too..
Have to disagree Davie. Quote from the FedEx Cup official website -
"The FedExCup Playoffs determine the season-long champion on the PGA TOUR."
For this purpose it is ill equipped and, as you say, only serves to crown the best player of a one month period. It is designed for excitement only, which it does deliver
http://www.pgatour.com/fedexcup/fedexcup-overview.html
"The FedExCup Playoffs determine the season-long champion on the PGA TOUR."
For this purpose it is ill equipped and, as you say, only serves to crown the best player of a one month period. It is designed for excitement only, which it does deliver
http://www.pgatour.com/fedexcup/fedexcup-overview.html
MustPuttBetter- Posts : 2951
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Re: R2D Too..
As a scientist, I think this is a weird rule probably conjured up by those damned feisty foreigners. Or maybe my neighbour...SmithersJones wrote:...I before E except after C, Mac. Quite an achievement to get that wrong both ways in one post. I agree with you entirely, though.
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: R2D Too..
There are loads of examples where I before E except after C isn't the case. It is no longer taught.
perceive, deceit, transceiver, receipts, conceive, conceited for example.
Apparently there are more words which do not conform to the rule than actually do.
perceive, deceit, transceiver, receipts, conceive, conceited for example.
Apparently there are more words which do not conform to the rule than actually do.
super_realist- Posts : 28800
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Re: R2D Too..
super_realist wrote:There are loads of examples where I before E except after C isn't the case. It is no longer taught.
perceive, deceit, transceiver, receipts, conceive, conceited for example.
Apparently there are more words which do not conform to the rule than actually do.
Except these examples are all after C so do conform to that rule; or am I missing something??!
ralphjohn69- Posts : 299
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Re: R2D Too..
ralphjohn69 wrote:super_realist wrote:There are loads of examples where I before E except after C isn't the case. It is no longer taught.
perceive, deceit, transceiver, receipts, conceive, conceited for example.
Apparently there are more words which do not conform to the rule than actually do.
Except these examples are all after C so do conform to that rule; or am I missing something??!
Sorry, I've got that mixed up.
Examples I should have given are: beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign,
dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty,
foreign, forfeit, freight, gleization, gneiss, greige,
greisen, heifer, height, heinous, heir, heist,
leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient,
rein, science, seiche, seidel, seismic, seize, sheik,
society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight,
weir, weird
super_realist- Posts : 28800
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Re: R2D Too..
I was always taught the full rule was "I before E except after C, when the sound is EEE" - as with any rule, there will still be exceptions, but it does cut out most of the exceptions mentioned above
Davie- Posts : 7821
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Re: R2D Too..
Davie wrote:I was always taught the full rule was "I before E except after C, when the sound is EEE" - as with any rule, there will still be exceptions, but it does cut out most of the exceptions mentioned above
Makes sense with that rule, never heard of that adendum though
super_realist- Posts : 28800
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Re: R2D Too..
navyblueshorts wrote:As a scientist, I think this is a weird rule probably conjured up by those damned feisty foreigners. Or maybe my neighbour...SmithersJones wrote:...I before E except after C, Mac. Quite an achievement to get that wrong both ways in one post. I agree with you entirely, though.
ha ha, good work.
Roller_Coaster- Posts : 2572
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Re: R2D Too..
navyblueshorts wrote:As a scientist, I think this is a weird rule probably conjured up by those damned feisty foreigners. Or maybe my neighbour...SmithersJones wrote:...I before E except after C, Mac. Quite an achievement to get that wrong both ways in one post. I agree with you entirely, though.
As a fellow scientist I agree. According to QI, super is correct about their being more exceptions to the rule.
PS I had a look at the post of mine that was attacked for getting it wrong and can't find the error. Can anyone help?
McLaren- Posts : 17491
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Re: R2D Too..
Davie wrote:McLaren wrote:Davie
The fedex has ruined the money list, which was actually quite an interesting part of the season. A season long measure of play based on points is an improvement over the money list, but distorting the season in the way the fedex does is just daft and artificial.
You're not reading the rules Mac .. The money list is still a great way of determining who has had the best season. The Fedex is a series of tournaments that decides who wins the Fedex. A good season puts you in a good position .. and that's it. The winner of the Fedex is a worthy winner .. of the Fedex. Sounds like I'm repeating myself or stating the obvious .. but some people can't see the obvious
Fedex winner is the (deserved) winner of the Fedex series .. under the rules of that tournament. Money list winner is probably the best player of the season.
No one tries to claim the FA Cup winner is the best team in the PL - why should this be any different?
Davie
You are repeating the point as you are not reading mine. I have no doubt that the fedex would be great as a standalone 4 event series, but it is used to determine the final standings and exemptions for the next season. If you accept this, then it is clear that the final fedex list is an attempt to rank players based on the whole seasons play, but with the play off events more heavily weighted.
McLaren- Posts : 17491
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Re: R2D Too..
Last word - "recieved!"(sic)...McLaren wrote:...PS I had a look at the post of mine that was attacked for getting it wrong and can't find the error. Can anyone help?
Last edited by navyblueshorts on Tue 18 Nov 2014, 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: R2D Too..
"beleive" and "recieved"
Davie- Posts : 7821
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Re: R2D Too..
Mac, in what way are you a scientist? Do you hold a scientific post?
super_realist- Posts : 28800
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Re: R2D Too..
What is your obsession super? For years you have wanted me to divulge my degree and job, but I am not about to do it now. In the same way you won't admit what your qualifications are.
McLaren- Posts : 17491
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Re: R2D Too..
Unusually thick for you, Super. Scientist has i before e after a c. Lovely reply, NBS, btw.
Edit: unusually thick for me, actually, I thought you'd addressed it to Navy.
Edit: unusually thick for me, actually, I thought you'd addressed it to Navy.
Last edited by SmithersJones on Tue 18 Nov 2014, 10:24 am; edited 1 time in total
SmithersJones- Posts : 2094
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Re: R2D Too..
I have plenty times Mac, I'm curious as to why you consider yourself a Scientist, do you hold a Scientific post or do you consider yourself a science by virtue of having a BSc or MSc or simply being an advocate of the Scientific method?
super_realist- Posts : 28800
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Re: R2D Too..
SmithersJones wrote:Unusually thick for you, Super. Scientist has i before e after a c. Lovely reply, NBS, btw.
No Smithers, it's you who is thick here old chap. The "rule" is I before E EXCEPT after a C. In the word SCIENCE "I" is before "E" IN SPITE of it being after C.
It goes against the rule. The rule assumes everything after a C should be EI, not IE. Science is IE, hence goes against the rule.
super_realist- Posts : 28800
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Re: R2D Too..
Super
Why are you so curious, it is unlikely I will meet whatever standard you want me to meet?
If you wish to continue this at least have the graciousness to take it to the OT thread.
Why are you so curious, it is unlikely I will meet whatever standard you want me to meet?
If you wish to continue this at least have the graciousness to take it to the OT thread.
McLaren- Posts : 17491
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Re: R2D Too..
super_realist wrote:SmithersJones wrote:Unusually thick for you, Super. Scientist has i before e after a c. Lovely reply, NBS, btw.
No Smithers, it's you who is thick here old chap. The "rule" is I before E EXCEPT after a C. In the word SCIENCE "I" is before "E" IN SPITE of it being after C.
It goes against the rule. The rule assumes everything after a C should be EI, not IE. Science is IE, hence goes against the rule.
As I've edited above, I was being thick but not for the reason you say. I was pointing out exactly what you've said, that it's an exception, as were so many of the words in Navy's very witty post. I thought you were questioning his assertion rather than Mac's, which is why I thought you were being thick. So just me, but not quite so thick as that.
SmithersJones- Posts : 2094
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Re: R2D Too..
Sorry Smithers, didn't read into Navy's post too much.
Mac, I'm curious because you act as if you are an expert on a number of issues and I'm just wondering how you qualify that.
Mac, I'm curious because you act as if you are an expert on a number of issues and I'm just wondering how you qualify that.
super_realist- Posts : 28800
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Re: R2D Too..
But the IE in Science isn't a sound of EEE ...
Davie- Posts : 7821
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Re: R2D Too..
But I've never come across your qualifier Davie, even if it does iron out many exceptions .Davie wrote:But the IE in Science isn't a sound of EEE ...
Anyway, what's all this got to do with the R2D?
navyblueshorts- Moderator
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Re: R2D Too..
I before E when it's meant to be, the other way round as long as it's sound.
Roller_Coaster- Posts : 2572
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Re: R2D Too..
navyblueshorts wrote:But I've never come across your qualifier Davie, even if it does iron out many exceptions .Davie wrote:But the IE in Science isn't a sound of EEE ...
Anyway, what's all this got to do with the R2D?
Race to Dubaie?
Roller_Coaster- Posts : 2572
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Re: R2D Too..
Back on topic:
The field is finally confirmed and four of the dodgy ground parties are in the field. Not sure how they qualified as such if they haven't played the requisite number of events. The only one to miss out is Casey and that maybe for the reasons that Kwini alluded to earlier. Another head scratcher for me is the inclusion of Manassero who was ranked 61st. Makes it a bit of a mockery for me. Perhaps they should reword it to around the top 60 or so places will play in the final event?
The field is finally confirmed and four of the dodgy ground parties are in the field. Not sure how they qualified as such if they haven't played the requisite number of events. The only one to miss out is Casey and that maybe for the reasons that Kwini alluded to earlier. Another head scratcher for me is the inclusion of Manassero who was ranked 61st. Makes it a bit of a mockery for me. Perhaps they should reword it to around the top 60 or so places will play in the final event?
1GrumpyGolfer- Posts : 3314
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Re: R2D Too..
Does 61st get in if one of the top 60 pull out?
McLaren- Posts : 17491
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