Why aren't British people allowed to feel proud of their Couintry ??

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 9:01 am

Scandalous tweet from a Labour Mp yesterday.............But unfortunately this PC garbage has been filtering in more and more over the last few years...

I love this Country been here 25 years...Got a great heritage..Love the dry humor and self deprecating nature of it's people..Very welcoming andIt's great to go to a dinner party and not have to discuss money all night and status !!...

Back home we have flags in our classrooms, municipal buildings and in plenty of gardens......I don't seem to recall any families from foreign shores regarding this as a racist pop...........You could see Mexican, Italian, Irish flags distributed throughout the towns and I thought it was great. Great to have pride in where you come from. ...

If someone wants to feel proud of being English and puts flags up what's wrong with that ??. Does it automatically means he hates Johnny Foreigner. During the World cup some Universities banned British/English flags....How bad is that ??

If some right wing scumbag party is using the flag...Take it back it's yours !!.........

Thornberry and people like her is everything that's wrong with Britain.....................You're British and you want to show it..Good luck to you !!

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 9:38 am

Because we're British.

It's a funny dichotomy of the British psyche, unfortunately.

Personally I've never felt more proud of my country than during the 2012 Olympics, when London was painted in flags and we had athletes we could really get behind.

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Post by dummy_half on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 10:34 am

I think we are generally quite proud of the country, but that we aren't brought up with the mentality of demonstrating it 24/7. We generally save the flag waving for special events like the Olympics and Royal occasions.

Of couse another consideration is the 'Regionalism' of the UK, not just the Scots and Welsh but the various self-identifying groups within England such as Cornish, Geordie, Northern (urban Yorkshire and Lancashire), Londoner. We identify with these groups first, British second and the rather more nebulous concept of England some way later...

Add in to this the shrinking of the 'Working Class' since WW2 and particularly from the 80s onwards (by which I mean the miners, ship-builders, factory workers etc), and the consequent rise of the middle classes, and there are clearly some issues with people and politicians trying to understand who they are and who they represent.

This is part of the reason why the Labour MP could make such a big faux pas - she's a middle to upper middle class Socialist who understands that Labour's key electoral target is the professional middle classes in urban and suburban areas, but has forgotten that they also need to appeal to the remaining working class / skilled trades groups in their northern heartlands. So sneering at white van man miight play reasonably in her constituency, but not so well in Hartlepool (for example)

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 10:38 am

Her consituency is Islington South & Finsbury - so yes, all very posh! (though think it has some sizeable estates in it, also)

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 10:42 am

I'm not talking about demonstrating it 24/7 or that most Brits aren't proud of their Country..

I'm talking about living in an atmosphere where If you shout out you're proud or plant a flag it is frowned on and you are considered somehow racist......

Believe me it seems to be where you are going..

PC lot are in danger of taking over here.............

I have a black friend who is always saying the people who tell him what he should be offended at..... He finds more offensive...............Than offensive people.


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Post by dummy_half on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 10:54 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm not talking about demonstrating it 24/7 or that most Brits aren't proud of their Country..

I'm talking about living in an atmosphere where If you shout out you're proud or plant a flag it is frowned on and you are considered somehow racist......

Believe me it seems to be where you are going..

PC lot are in danger of taking over here.............

I have a black friend who is always saying the people who tell him what he should be offended at..... He finds more offensive...............Than offensive people.

As I put earlier, we aren't brought up with the national flag being an every day symbol. The use of both the Union flag and th Cross of St George depends strongly on context - lots of the latter during football tournaments for example (at least since Euro 96), and no-one would see it as even potentially racist, but bedecking your house in 3 of them during a by-election where a party often perceived as racist is thought likely to win is somewhat more questionable. Waving one as a march of the EDL (if they are still going) goes past and there's no question of the intent...

BTW, I noticed that one of the flags on the Twitter photo has a West Ham badge in the middle, so perhaps the house-holder had simply put the flags up for the international football and hadn't taken them down yet.

Of course, we also now know where Duty lives Smile

Oh, and as for your last comment, yes we do have some achingly PC people who take offence on behalf of others far too easily. Wasn't that the story behind the temporary departure from the term 'brain storm'?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 10:59 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I have a black friend who is always saying the people who tell him what he should be offended at..... He finds more offensive...............Than offensive people.


One of my favourite phrases, learnt on here in fact, is 'faux-fended'. Erudite critique of those people that get offended on other people's behalf, or get offended only after the event (e.g. the handful of complaints about Sachs-gate versus the thousands that followed once people heard about what had happened). Maybe the latter should be term retro-fended!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 11:07 am

To be honest Mate.....Phoning someone up and laughing about shagging your Grand daughter on a radio program..........Is pretty low rent and sackable in itself....

If that's comedy you can keep it..........Love freedom of expression but you've got to have some standards.


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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 11:19 am

Not disagreeing it's pretty low, or that a sacking was in order.

But the 'uproar' it created was pathetic.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 1:44 pm

Political correctness. Need I say more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GvkyKEYRnM

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 1:49 pm

Let's not go overboard Duty...

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 1:52 pm

I am always quiet and understated, Truss.

Always. Wink

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 2:07 pm

Quote from the occupier provides an interesting insight though:

He was not aware there was a byelection, but voted Conservative at the last general election and has never voted Labour.

Ok, not quite a quote, more a statement.

But I've long said that there are strong arguments that Labour aren't really the 'workers' party, and that people would be surprised at the strength of support for Tories from actually regular joe working people.

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Post by Guest on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 2:34 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-30138390

The very best and worst of Britain in one incident.

One stupid ignorant person followed by the actions of a handful of "let's get this sh!t sorted out" no-nonsense folk

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 3:04 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Quote from the occupier provides an interesting insight though:

He was not aware there was a byelection, but voted Conservative at the last general election and has never voted Labour.

Ok, not quite a quote, more a statement.

But I've long said that there are strong arguments that Labour aren't really the 'workers' party, and that people would be surprised at the strength of support for Tories from actually regular joe working people.

Occupier said he left the flags up after the World cup to stick two fingers up at foreigners.

So he's probably a d**khead...BUT If he wants a flag...Let him have one.

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Post by Derbymanc on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 3:11 pm

That's one of the biggest problems Truss is that some people do think like that and normally it's them that the paper roots out. You never hear of all the British flags out in the 'minority' (another word I hate) areas during the big sporting events. They help to stoke up the bad feeling a lot of the time.

It also doesn't help that political parties in particular have the default setting to call everybody racist if they don't vote for them. They never think it's their stupid policies or they're out of touch, it's cause us lower classes are generally racists *****

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 3:20 pm

Toppy said he voted Tory didn't he Derby ??

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Post by Guest on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 3:36 pm

Do you really need to be waving a flag and planting it in your garden or leaving it in the window for viewing to demonstrate how proud you are of the country?

Yes I am proud of this country...I take the rough with the smooth. There are some great things we have and do and not so great things we have and do.

When I think of people with their flags I think of those dipsticks behind Britain First!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 3:49 pm

No one is saying it should be mandatory.....Just that If you want to you should be able to without being frowned on as racist..

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Post by Guest on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 3:54 pm

Well they know where the door is if it offends them that much.....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 4:00 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:Well they know where the door is if it offends them that much.....

But it isn't the foreigners getting offended.

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Post by Derbymanc on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 4:07 pm

I can't remember to be honest Truss but i'm pretty sure Toppy's a Tory.

Legends answer above shows why people aren't allowed to feel proud. If you fly a flag then your a dipstick. Or perhaps you just appreciate the country a bit more than the people that are like that, or maybe your a lazy sod who can't be bothered to take them down.

Flying the flag isn't for me but if someone wants to do it then go for it. don't really see the difference between those and the people that have their football colours in the car window etc.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 4:11 pm

Is Toppy a Tory ??

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 4:39 pm

Not sure why it's an issue/question?

Technically I'm not. As my most recent GE vote went to Lib Dems, and the one before that to Labour. But GE2015 will go to Tory.

Wouldn't otherwise attach myself to or define myself by a political party though. My vote, and my interest, is transient.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 4:42 pm

Tory minority.....Or majority ??

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Post by Guest on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 5:58 pm

Derbymanc wrote:I can't remember to be honest Truss but i'm pretty sure Toppy's a Tory.

Legends answer above shows why people aren't allowed to feel proud. If you fly a flag then your a dipstick. Or perhaps you just appreciate the country a bit more than the people that are like that, or maybe your a lazy sod who can't be bothered to take them down.

Flying the flag isn't for me but if someone wants to do it then go for it. don't really see the difference between those and the people that have their football colours in the car window etc.

My answer doesn't allow people to feel proud. Right.

picard




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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 22 Nov 2014, 8:03 am

'When I think of people with their flags I think of those dipsticks behind Britain First! .'

No it does LV but it also shows why a lot of people are reluctant to wave flags if others think ill of them just for doing it.

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Post by Guest on Sat 22 Nov 2014, 9:53 am

So me thinking of an organisation (if you can call them that) by an association for the flag prevents people waving flags or wanting to?

Puhlease. There's a difference between thinking and speaking. Anyhow, I am not speaking against flag waving or having one in your window or garden.

To me it's just an over-rated statement.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Sat 22 Nov 2014, 10:18 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Tory minority.....Or majority ??

I meant my vote 'will go to Tory', i.e. having been with LD last time round.

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Post by Hero on Sat 22 Nov 2014, 12:09 pm

I'm similar to Toppy vote wise, last time round I voted LD, and they're probably where I lean but in general I've been happy with the coalition government and the Tories in charge so I will more than likely vote for them come next May.

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Post by Derbymanc on Sat 22 Nov 2014, 12:27 pm

If it was only you LV that thought that then no it wouldn't. But that's the general consensus which stops people waving flags.

It's something I don't do myself but don't begrudge other people doing it nor think anything less of anyone that does

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sat 22 Nov 2014, 6:20 pm

Hero wrote:I'm similar to Toppy vote wise, last time round I voted LD, and they're probably where I lean but in general I've been happy with the coalition government and the Tories in charge so I will more than likely vote for them come next May.

You've not had a Tory government so how can you be happy with them in charge..

Who knows what they are like unchecked...

I'm all for low taxes but not for seeing the weakest in society trod on..

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 24 Nov 2014, 9:17 am

Let's not pretend that the junior partner in this coalition has really done anything. U-turned on it's most important election pledges and the Tories have still done the main things they wanted to do, hence the economic success that's been had.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 24 Nov 2014, 12:45 pm

What they will have done is ruled out extreme garbage..

Which is what worries me..

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Mon 24 Nov 2014, 12:48 pm

Evidence?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon 24 Nov 2014, 2:45 pm

I don't need evidence.........It's obvious there are certain policies that they couldn't entertain..

Liberals told Clegg in no uncertain terms that May's idea of internet snooping and other information gathering was a no go.........

She's had to go away and revise..

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Post by Steffan on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 4:08 pm

I am from the UK and I am allowed to feel proud of my country which is Wales. Scottish and Welsh people are but for some reason any sign of showing that you are proud of being English gets frowned upon and you get classed as an EDL or BNP type person. Your nationality isn't something you have to be proud of though as none of us choose where we are from

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 4:40 pm

Steffan wrote:I am from the UK and I am allowed to feel proud of my country which is Wales. Scottish and Welsh people are but for some reason any sign of showing that you are proud of being English gets frowned upon and you get classed as an EDL or BNP type person. Your nationality isn't something you have to be proud of though as none of us choose where we are from

The reason is, generally speaking, the Labour party. Eager to discriminate against the English at every point and turn - whether it is not giving the English a devolved Parliament, when they did for Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland, or, as is the case today, trying desperately to prevent English laws being voted on by only English MPs.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 5:00 pm

Ialways thought english people are plenty proud of their country, if you ignore edl and their bum chums people love to be english and part of being english is not letting on that you're proud of being english. That sort of thing we've always mildly disapproved when the americans do it. The problem is when most guys do it in public eye theres usually something behind it hence the negative reactions sometimes and often puts paid to overt displays of english national pride. Yet all the important moments, the commemorations the falklands, etc are all marked with a solemn solidarity thats more in keeping with the nature of britain and england. Football and cricket of course is different its loudly and proudly hailed but outside of sport and often drunken ramblings, the reserved nature of this country and its people are often outgunned when it comes to perception.


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Post by Steffan on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 5:07 pm

The problem with England is that the north/south cultural and economic divide makes pro-English patriotism difficult as well. Everytime I have been up north there seems to be a hostility towards 'those nancy posh folk down south'

I even know northerners who are rugby league fans yet when Wales play England in the 6 nations they cheer on the Welsh as they see English rugby as a game for public school boys watched by the middle class as opposed to Welsh rugby which is still a more working class game which rugby league fans from the north can relate to

I think if England does get devolution of some sort you would end up with a parliament in London and one based up north as well as 'folk oop north' also seem to feel that Westminster is failing the needs of the people

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 5:36 pm

Are there no hostilities between valleys and city folk, Steffan?

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:03 pm

Aha top hat you giant sack of bon bons, when did you turn 30

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:07 pm

9 months ago......

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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:11 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:9 months ago......

Congratulations on your new born baby.

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:30 pm

It does explain how you lost a shedload of weight buddy Wink

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 6:52 pm

Hahahaha fair play Laugh

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Post by Liam on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 8:24 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Are there no hostilities between valleys and city folk, Steffan?

Yes, mainly between Cardiff and the Valleys. Having been born in the Valleys and living in Cardiff for the last 7 years, Cardiff people tend to look upon Valleys people as being generally below them, and tarnish them all with the same brush. Both detest each other's accent. Its amazing how different the two accents are despite just 10/15 mins separating the two. Valleys look at Cardiff as being up themselves and just generally don't like them.

North Wales also I believe tends to dislike people more southern than them. If you don't tend to speak Welsh your not looked upon very well haha (Apart from Wrexham, which is basically a mix of manc and scouse).

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