Eng in Lanka

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Eng in Lanka

Post by KP_fan on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 2:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

From not being keen on Moeen's position, Cook now uses him to open the batting and bowling sometimes.
While I am a fan of Moeen's temperament, I dont think he is the saviour that Eng is looking for.

also he won't do well as an opener for too long.

Cook has strong dislikes and it seems now Hales is on that list.


Lanks has been Mauled by India and must be at lowest possible morale.

Eng is not a great ODI side and lagging by the day as Morgan observed.

Should be an even series if not a high quality one. Lanks might still win
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 9:02 am

Surely playing a man in this sort of form is classed as torture?
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by GSC on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 9:38 am

Not gonna say anymore  censored
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 9:50 am

Its going well
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 10:16 am

Just turned it on.

Root still in and maybe could rescue this. If anyone can it's him.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 10:28 am

I used to bring this point up a lot.

But I always used to say we should never have moved root.(from opening in test or odi)

He has all the essential elements as an opener. I am not advocating moving him. But he is the only thing we have if the others can not step up. He is the only player that consistently gels the innings .




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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 10:42 am

Indeed the scoreboards continue to show Cook is the root of all problems.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 10:50 am

That's out..

Can't see us getting over the line now..

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 10:53 am

No it's not..

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 11:05 am

Jordan smash up needed..

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Pal Joey on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 11:14 am

Jordan gone.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 4:53 pm

Traveling today so spared watching this defeat.

Can't really say anything more than is in the scorecard but worrying to be all out with more than 8 overs left in the tank. On the plus side, another effective display by Tredwell. Bopara, however, doing little to extinguish my previously voiced concerns.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mike Selig on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 5:14 pm

Based purely on the scorecard, Tredwell outbowled Moeen comfortably again, Bopara hasn't made his home at number 5, and the 5th bowler was definitely an issue again, not only in that it went for runs but again no wickets and no pressure - again this is an issue because with the possible exception of Jordan England have no real wicket-taking option in the middle overs. Oh yes, and of course Cook still didn't do anything.

Oh well. I think I shall desist from commenting much on England ODIs in the near future at least, for fear of sounding like a broken record. Having said that, I think that when I sound like a grumpy old so and so, you've probably got issues.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by freemo on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 6:11 pm

Judging by Peter Moores comments after the game, Cook's place in the world cup could be in jeopardy...it really should be..

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by GSC on Sat 13 Dec 2014, 8:08 pm

So Moores has now said Cooks position as ODI captain will be reviewed.

You get the sense thats goodbye Cook then
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Jetty on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 12:54 am

GSC wrote:So Moores has now said Cooks position as ODI captain will be reviewed.

You get the sense thats goodbye Cook then

Each series is reviewed. All the players get reviewed as well. Moores is really saying nothing.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by GSC on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 6:48 am

Why would he openly say it if there wasn't a point.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 11:07 am

GSC wrote:Why would he openly say it if there wasn't a point.

Previous headlines were "Cook named as captain for the World Cup". Now the story is all positions are up for review but Moores would choose Cook as captain. It is a subtle change, not quite a U-Turn just yet, but as you say by the fact its been talked about in an interview, there is probably something behind it.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 15 Dec 2014, 11:17 pm

Paul Downton gave an interview that's depressing
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by KP_fan on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 10:24 am

so I see Downton calls Cook an "Inspirational Leader" and
Moores after some dissenting murmurs in the media backs Cook fully.....presumably told to give full public support.

But the damage was done...when he expressed his real mind...and we know not everyone wants Cook.

The "protectionism" and " "back-scratching" and picking "comfortable to deal with" rather than the best steely / fighting tough players.......is evident in ECB and worse only in BCCI
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 10:25 am

Moeen Ali's beard is a worldie
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 10:53 am

It's actually a gyroscope I believe. I think he will turn into a very well balanced all-rounder. He just needs to improve his bowling.

Is rain imminent?
SL 147/2 after 30.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 11:21 am

176/3.. 280 ish probably the target
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 11:25 am

Sun's out again. Wasn't it raining a moment ago?

Maybe they could get closer to 300. They'd settle for 280 though.

I'll go 288/7.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 12:07 pm

300 isn't too far off.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 12:09 pm

Yeah, expensive over so far for Woakes.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 12:16 pm


Said it before - If two batsmen are set, you might as well be chucking volleyballs to them at the death. With that said, some criminal bowling from England at the death
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 12:18 pm

How many short balls does he need to despatch to make it clear that that isn't working?
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Pal Joey on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 12:19 pm

There goes my 288. This is a clobberfest.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 12:21 pm

Looks like another car crash in the making. But it's ok as we have an inspirational leader, who is great in the dressing room.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 1:26 pm

Terrible slow start from England here, Cook eating up deliveries and doing nothing

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:01 pm

Jeez... Cook can't buy a run.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:05 pm

That's surely got to be it for Cook? He's just plodded along at 4 an over chasing 300, showing a complete inability to rotate the strike, then got out. He could have been out three times before that as well.

How can any supposed review of the series choose to keep such an horrendous ODI batsmen in the team?

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:12 pm

yeah Cook's the sole responsible for this one, I mean Moeen, Hales and Taylor have scored fewer than ten runs between them, that must be Cook's fault too, right?

Look, I don't think he should be in the team, but to blame this entire shoddy performance on him is getting a bit silly.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:16 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yeah Cook's the sole responsible for this one, I mean Moeen, Hales and Taylor have scored fewer than ten runs between them, that must be Cook's fault too, right?

Look, I don't think he should be in the team, but to blame this entire shoddy performance on him is getting a bit silly.

Erm - where does anyone on this thread say Cook is entirely to blame for today's performance?

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:18 pm

My favourite part is always the one where you replace Cook with someone averaging 20.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:20 pm

well you've been only blaming Cook, with no mention of the awful shots played by Moeen and Hales, for instance, and TBH it's getting rather tiresome just reading the same stuff over and over.

England's problems in this series have been that their batsmen, Root aside, haven't been in good enough form. Cook's a part of that, but not the only part. Hales hasn't scored anything, Moeen's form has tailored off alarmingly, Morgan can't buy a run, Buttler's been up and down, etc.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:20 pm

kingraf wrote:My favourite part is always the one where you replace Cook with someone averaging 20.

Who is replacing Cook? I don't follow

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:22 pm

Consensus generally says drop Cook, who isnt scoring runs, for Hales. The irony seems to be lost on most, but I assure I laugh every time
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:23 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:well you've been only blaming Cook, with no mention of the awful shots played by Moeen and Hales, for instance, and TBH it's getting rather tiresome just reading the same stuff over and over.

England's problems in this series have been that their batsmen, Root aside, haven't been in good enough form. Cook's a part of that, but not the only part. Hales hasn't scored anything, Moeen's form has tailored off alarmingly, Morgan can't buy a run, Buttler's been up and down, etc.

Well it's one of the main talking points from this series. Moeen and Taylor have at least some credit in the bank, Hales has not convinced but maybe needs a run in a settled position to be fairly judged.

I am happy to not comment again but would suggest the cricket section on here needs all the posters it can get.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:25 pm

kingraf wrote:Consensus generally says drop Cook, who isnt scoring runs, for Hales. The irony seems to be lost on most, but I assure I laugh every time

Hales may or may not be the answer, he hasn't been given a decent run in a settled position. On another thread someone suggested 10-15 games. In this series he was in the team, then dropped, then back in. He's a young player and needs a bit of nurturing.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:27 pm

Not asking you not to comment again, just think this particular topic has been rather over-exhausted of late. England's problems run deeper, much deeper, than just Cook.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:34 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Not asking you not to comment again, just think this particular topic has been rather over-exhausted of late. England's problems run deeper, much deeper, than just Cook.

Fair enough. I didn't just dredge it up for the sake of it, I actually wanted him to get a big score and England to win today as we desperately need a win from anywhere. But it's the end of the series now and he hasn't turned it round.

England's problems are too long to list but it's hard to judge the bowling as surely Broad and Anderson walk back in - so it's a second string lineup I would say.

The batting though is the best we have and the combination is all wrong at the moment. You can expect to chase scores of 300 these days, something I think England have only ever done twice? It's stoneage stuff.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:35 pm

Thing with Hales is unlike Taylor, he doesn't have the List A record to justify persevering with him. Cook at least had three very good years in 50-overs, where he could justifiably be called the best opener in the format.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:42 pm

kingraf wrote:Thing with Hales is unlike Taylor, he doesn't have the List A record to justify persevering with him. Cook at least had three very good years in 50-overs, where he could justifiably be called the best opener in the format.

That's a fair point. We are not spoiled for options and Hales has shown he has some power and class in T20's, so that's why I think he is worth looking into. Also his domestic form did tail off for a couple of years, but was very good last year, which might be why his overall record doesn't look too good.

Morgan out now, another huge worry. Cook, Bell and Morgan should be the three senior players going into the WC, and none of them can buy a decent innings. Its absolute disarray and I am wondering if getting out of the group is even possible.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 2:55 pm

Haven't watched the game but seems like death bowling was an issue again.

To be fair to Cook, I wonder how many Dilshan had off 50 balls or so today. I know the point is kind of that Dilshan went on to get a hundred and Cook couldn't, but if you can convert 32 off 48 into say 100 off 120 then that's not a bad start.

Hales has been disappointing so far, but it's tough to come in, play one or two, get dropped, come in, be shifted, get dropped, etc.

I'm more concerned about Moeen Ali frankly, who seems to either flay it to all parts or get out very quickly.

Morgan is a massive concern; ironically enough all his good efforts recently have come with him as captain...

England will probably get out of the group stage. The format is really ridiculous for the WC but that's another story (still, at least in 2019 we have a 10 team tournament with everybody playing everyone; now THAT will be fun, no meaningless matches there).

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by jimbohammers on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 3:01 pm

Mike, Cook was also dropped twice and survived a big LBW shout...

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 3:02 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:well you've been only blaming Cook, with no mention of the awful shots played by Moeen and Hales, for instance, and TBH it's getting rather tiresome just reading the same stuff over and over.

England's problems in this series have been that their batsmen, Root aside, haven't been in good enough form. Cook's a part of that, but not the only part. Hales hasn't scored anything, Moeen's form has tailored off alarmingly, Morgan can't buy a run, Buttler's been up and down, etc.

MfC - in my old fashioned way, I understand where you're coming from.

Other batsmen have certainly flopped as well and are anything but blameless. However, most of the others (not Hales admittedly) have at least shown at times in this series that they're capable of cracking on and making a significant score. Whereas Cook seems to mainly bumble along in third gear and then get out, having not taken us far enough along the path and used up a few too many balls in doing so. He just doesn't give me the confidence that there's a big score inside him waiting to come out.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect something more from the captain. Even if not in runs, then in innovation and inspiration. It may be a cheap comment but did seeing Cook almost getting out twice in the opening two overs do much good for Moeen and Hales?

If VTR is seeing (or perceives he's seeing) the same problem every match, then surely he's entitled to continue making the same comment every match. [EDIT: I see matters have constructively moved on since I just posted this.]

It may not be entirely fair but it's probably understandable that the current dissatisfaction of England supporters is largely aimed towards the captain. Don't know if you've seen it but I posted last night on the ''England ODIs seriously'' thread that Alec Stewart was very critical of the selectors ''needlessly'' naming Cook as captain so far in advance of the World Cup. He's probably right and, although Stewart didn't directly say it, I think that has also caused resentment towards Cook.

Btw and in line with your own comment, I flagged a couple of ODIs ago that I foresaw problems with Moeen's batting form tailing off.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 3:08 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Haven't watched the game but seems like death bowling was an issue again.

To be fair to Cook, I wonder how many Dilshan had off 50 balls or so today. I know the point is kind of that Dilshan went on to get a hundred and Cook couldn't, but if you can convert 32 off 48 into say 100 off 120 then that's not a bad start.

Hales has been disappointing so far, but it's tough to come in, play one or two, get dropped, come in, be shifted, get dropped, etc.

I'm more concerned about Moeen Ali frankly, who seems to either flay it to all parts or get out very quickly.

Morgan is a massive concern; ironically enough all his good efforts recently have come with him as captain...

England will probably get out of the group stage. The format is really ridiculous for the WC but that's another story (still, at least in 2019 we have a 10 team tournament with everybody playing everyone; now THAT will be fun, no meaningless matches there).

Moeen seems a useful player but it is worrying how he has tailed off. We will have to see how he goes in the triangular series, but the last thing we needed was one of the few promising players going out of form, there'll be no-one left at this rate you would even put a pound on getting to 50!

England should get out of the group, but Bangladesh will be fancying their chances of beating them and taking fourth in the group.



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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 3:14 pm

all reasonable guildford. I just sometimes get tired of reading the same comments again and again. I'm as frustrated as anyone that none of the selectors seem to realise the extensive problems with England's ODI plans, and some of my frustration may have boiled over.

Buttler gone, and with him surely any slim chance England had of competing in this one. Root passes 50, really been a shining light for England in this series, the only one to perform consistently throughout.

For all that SL have dominated this series, I'm not sure how well they'll compete in Aus. They have one seamer of note (Lakmal, though Malinga is expected back I think), and their batting has relied on Dilshan and Sangakkara, with not a huge amound from anyone else. I'm not convinced by Jayawardene as an opener (even less so in Australia), or Thirimane at 6, and not sure they'll be able to get away with 20 overs of Dilshan/Perrera/J. Mendis/Matthews on pitches less suited to those guys.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mike Selig on Tue 16 Dec 2014, 3:17 pm

This Sri Lankan bowling attack is rather mediocre. I mean Lakmal? Really? Dilshan getting 3 wickets as well (at this point were I coach I would use the word "upsetting")...

Buttler really should have hit that for 6 BTW.

Anyway...

Not sure there is much to be gained from further comment. We seem to be going around in circles.

Would dropping Cook solve all of England's problems? Of course not. Would it help? IMO undoubtedly.

I suppose in terms of positives Moeen seems to have bowled well. That is actually a genuine positive given the likely make-up of England's side in Aus. Oh and Root still looks like a good player at number 4. And Buttler looked in decent form from what I saw. And erm... well that's all I can see ATM.

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