Eng in Lanka

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Eng in Lanka

Post by KP_fan on Fri 21 Nov 2014, 2:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

From not being keen on Moeen's position, Cook now uses him to open the batting and bowling sometimes.
While I am a fan of Moeen's temperament, I dont think he is the saviour that Eng is looking for.

also he won't do well as an opener for too long.

Cook has strong dislikes and it seems now Hales is on that list.


Lanks has been Mauled by India and must be at lowest possible morale.

Eng is not a great ODI side and lagging by the day as Morgan observed.

Should be an even series if not a high quality one. Lanks might still win
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by KP_fan on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 8:59 am

Bell dropped for Hales

and Tredwell dropped too.......should always be played in subcontinent.

you know a settled side has most things locked down......and is trying to optimize one or two variable so close to the world cup as is the case I would say with SA and Ind.

For Eng it appears like 7 out of 11 positions are variables...which creates too many permutations.
You need many games and a clear strategy to converge to something meaningful from as many permutations...both of which are lacking.

what is locked down .....are WK Butler, Joe Root and Woakes...and perhaps Cook..... the latter by the law of "Captain has to be in the playing 11 and Cook cannot bat elsewhere but open the inning"

Rest are all in a pot being stirred.....and little signs of convergence and little time left to achieve so
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mike Selig on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 9:32 am

I have given up trying to understand England's plans in ODI cricket anymore.

Moeen Ali will struggle at the top of the order in Aus. That is clear to anybody with a handful of common sense about the game. That's not to say Moeen is a poor player, just that he is ill-suited to playing the new ball on bouncy pitches against the faster bowlers.

Tredwell is England's best ODI spinner by a distance. In fact over the last couple of years he has been one of the better ODI spinners world-wide.

Taylor still can't get a chance. A couple of years ago there was talk about him not hitting the ball hard enough (which was fair). He went away and worked on it, and is now a lot more compact, but still can't get a chance.

Bell is easily technically capable of playing the classy role at the top of the order, a la Amla/Sangakara etc. However he all too rarely seems to do anything of the kind. Why?

Now it seems Hales is set to bat 3. For no other reason than to allow Moeen (who will probably struggle in Aus) and Cook (who is not an ODI opener) to open.

Nothing makes any sense whatsoever.

Most of the time you can see both sides to an argument, and I have often said in the past on these boards that people are too quick to dismiss the side they don't agree with. In this case though... I just can't fathom the reasoning.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 11:23 am

England have no idea where they're going with their ODI selection (or if they do, none of us can see it).

I will however attempt to give the reasoning behind their calls here.

1) Hales. They want him in the side, so have shoe-horned him at 3. Moeen made a century a couple of games ago so deserves to be persevered with (despite reservations of whether he'll succeed in Oz). Cook is Mr Undroppable (despite everyone seeing that he should be dropped), and you can't have Hales lower than 3, so in he goes.

2) Tredwell. Can only imagine England are preparing for Oz, and feel Tredders will be ineffective there. They may just have a point in that last time he played there he didn't get any wickets (though he wasn't tonked either, according to cricinfo 29 overs for 140).

TBH it's all getting more than a bit silly, what's the point of taking Taylor on tour and not playing him? why persevere with Cook when he simply doesn't deserve his place in the side?

My favoured team would be something like
Hales
Moeen/Roy
Taylor
Root
Morgan
Buttler
Moeen/Bops
Broad
Tredwell
Finn
Anderson

(a little unsure on the seamers, no proper death options there...)

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 12:00 pm

I suppose James Taylor deserves a crack. After all, he has the THIRD HIGHEST LIST A AVERAGE OF ALL TIME. I'm not really sure of what that means to be honest, but that's got as much to do with the fact that I don't watch List A in England, as the fact that I don't really see the relevance. That's not true, I see the relevance, I just think it's overstated. For one over a 1/5 of his innings' in List A have been not out. Which is a rather large proportion for a top six batter, which isn't a blight on him, as you can't really have a high average, without garnering a fair few *. It does however mean that unless you're backing him to be the team's finisher (You might be... I really have no idea), it's probably not really the most definitive piece of evidence for his selection.

I'd like to have a look at him though.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 3:09 pm

Mike Selig wrote:I have given up trying to understand England's plans in ODI cricket anymore.

Moeen Ali will struggle at the top of the order in Aus. That is clear to anybody with a handful of common sense about the game. That's not to say Moeen is a poor player, just that he is ill-suited to playing the new ball on bouncy pitches against the faster bowlers.

Tredwell is England's best ODI spinner by a distance. In fact over the last couple of years he has been one of the better ODI spinners world-wide.

Taylor still can't get a chance. A couple of years ago there was talk about him not hitting the ball hard enough (which was fair). He went away and worked on it, and is now a lot more compact, but still can't get a chance.

Bell is easily technically capable of playing the classy role at the top of the order, a la Amla/Sangakara etc. However he all too rarely seems to do anything of the kind. Why?

Now it seems Hales is set to bat 3. For no other reason than to allow Moeen (who will probably struggle in Aus) and Cook (who is not an ODI opener) to open.

Nothing makes any sense whatsoever.

Most of the time you can see both sides to an argument, and I have often said in the past on these boards that people are too quick to dismiss the side they don't agree with. In this case though... I just can't fathom the reasoning.

''I just can't fathom the reasoning.'' Or, in a Yorkshire accent, ''I just can't understand what they're doing out there.''

When Mike is reduced to sounding like Fred Trueman, you know England have got serious problems.

Meanwhile, England's fifth bowler combo of Bopara/Stokes/Root has figures of 1/48 off 5 overs. Oh dear ....

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 3:28 pm

guildfordbat wrote:

Meanwhile, England's fifth bowler combo of Bopara/Stokes/Root has figures of 1/48 off 5 overs. Oh dear ....

Make that 2/73 off their 7. Even with a wicket for Bopara off his final ball, I'm very uncomfortable with this trio bowling at the death. Guess they only bowled then as they couldn't be relied upon earlier!!

Very poor decision to leave out Tredwell who has proved his match effectiveness and nous in the early to middle overs.

Once more, uninspiring and unimaginative captaincy from Cook. Things allowed to slip too much in the closing overs as Sri Lanka finish on 242/8 off their 35 overs, a lot more than looked likely 10 or so overs ago.


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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 3:42 pm

We should still win this-We just need to build up to 60 for the first 10 - then the last 25 play like t20

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 3:57 pm

Mysti - we've also got a very long batting order today. Woakes is more than capable and isn't due in until 10!

Too often though we find ways of getting out as a collective panic sets in. Maybe we'll actually get a win today  - however, I'm still far from convinced that we're building on strong foundations ....

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 3:58 pm

they have started well enough.. looking good so far. Easy enough batting track


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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by kingraf on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 3:59 pm

We have AB de Villiers as our fifth bowler, so i understand the frustrations. That said, AB has actually improved remarkably as a bowler. Just two months ago, he was chucking 95kmh pies at the Black Caps, and against Australia he was bowling 120-125kph top of off stump. I'm quite confident that by the World Cup he'll be searing 150 kph bumpers.

Can't say I'd be as confident in the English fifth bowler though.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 4:15 pm

Moooeeeen . Wink

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 4:28 pm

Good enough from cook. That's all we needed to the first partnership. Its looking almost so easy that even we shouldn't be able to mess this up!!

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 4:51 pm

It makes me a lot harder to root for you Alex hales if you run out super mo

And it's pretty depressing that cooks best odi innings in a long time was that 34. My word just get him out of the side for christ sake

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 4:57 pm

So he has his best innings and you kick him out . not good logic. Anyway you are going to have to deal with it. He isn't going anywhere. He will be our captain for this world cup. And nothing will stop it. So deal with it or rant. Its your call.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 5:05 pm

It's a pretty ss state of affairs when his best innings is 34 and out ain't it mysti.

I don't see why we have to accept it as fans. Why should we accept it when it's so blatantly obvious that he didn't be anywhere near the side, and is only there because the ECB have chosen him as some sort of poster boy saviour of English cricket. Not in one day he isn't. It's absolute bs that he gets chance after chance after chance, never dies anything, yet you have promising young guns like Taylor, Roy, Vince, hales who would all do just as well if not definitely better and they'd all benefit hugely from playing in a world cup
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 5:07 pm

The one time I bet against England and it looks like they might win!

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by SimonofSurrey on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 5:10 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Good enough from cook.

No, it isn't. He made 34 from 42 balls, including 5 fours. That's a strike rate of just over 80, and he must have faced at least 23 dot balls (maximum of 19 scoring shots: 5 x 4  and 14 x 1). So that's four of our 35 overs he wasted. It's pure chance that the guy the other end was batting as an opener should when you're chasing 236 at around 7 an over.

I would be minded to build England's Test top order around Alastair Cook still for several years to come, but to see his struggles at this level in a form of the game to which he simply is not suited is painful.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 5:34 pm

Duty281 wrote:The one time I bet against England and it looks like they might win!

Looks like you'll be alright
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 6:16 pm

Good win that . 2 good partnerships was all it took. Root is good at that anchor role late on.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 6:17 pm

Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:The one time I bet against England and it looks like they might win!

Looks like you'll be alright

Then again...

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 6:25 pm

I hadn't taken into account jos buttler's amazingness.

Replace cook with Taylor and stokes with tredwell and that's our best odi team at the moment.
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by JDizzle on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 10:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/30322012

Come on the ICC, do us a favour!

Not sure why KP's twitter comments get a mention on the article though... Rolling Eyes

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by JDizzle on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 10:33 pm

Since Jan 1, 2013, Dilshan has hit 229 fours in ODI cricket. And presuming my use of stats guru is correct, he's only hit 1 six in that time. Unbelievable stat really.

1930 runs at 49.38. Yet only one six. The world doesn't make sense.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;spanmin1=01+Jan+2013;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 10:45 pm

Has trott ever made a 6?

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 11:00 pm

I thought Cook was adequate as a batsman today. He featured in a valuable opening partnership  with Moeen and, whilst the junior partner, was not a dead weight with his 34 off 42. Maybe 6.5 for his innings. The problem (or one of them anyway) is that's as good as it gets. I just don't envisage him going on and getting a 70 or 80, let alone a match winning century with an escalating run rate.

Unless we wish to settle for an opener who fluctuates between adequacy and mediocrity, we should imo take a calculated risk on a younger and bolder batsman. It will not surprise Surrey regulars that my money would be on Roy.

The bigger problem I have with Cook is his captaincy in the field. Little imagination, little innovation. Too prepared to let the game drift as shown today by a fifth bowler combo of Stokes/Root/Bopara having to come back late on and share the closing overs at some considerable expense.

Meanwhile, I remain unconvinced by Bopara and his role. Too often, it's runs but never a game influencing total or a bits 'n pieces effort with bat and ball like today which isn't enough.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by JDizzle on Wed 03 Dec 2014, 11:26 pm

mystiroakey wrote:Has trott ever made a 6?

In limited overs cricket, he has three. However, I believe that he has the record for most runs in Tests without a six?

Guildford, I actually have come to like Bopara a lot more recently. I'm not sure whether he is someone you can rely on to bowl 10 overs as your banker fifth bowler (certainly not in Australia), but his batting has been nice enough this tour and he was a little unlucky today. His bowling is probably more reliable than Stokes, and possibly Jordan, at this stage too.

Hopefully, with Cook's ban coming, we see something like Hales, Moeen, JT (c, wishful), Root, Morgan, Buttler, Bopara, Woakes, Jordan, Finn, Tredwell. Still leaves some muddling with the fifth bowler, but I just can't see a way to get another proper bowler in. Need Bopara/Buttler at 7 for a proper balance for me.

*Edit* And I'm still totally confused on how DL reduced SL's total for England to chase...


Last edited by JDizzle on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 1:23 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mat on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 1:10 am

How good is Moeen eh? Shame Hales ran him out really.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 8:06 am

I personally think Moeen should open the batting and bowling in all forms of the game, but then I suppose we want to give the others a chance #MOEEN
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by KP_fan on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 8:26 am

Butler is an exciting batsman...he carried Eng throuhg well last night.
the two players I identified as the firm one Root and Butler put their hand up and got counted .

Eng have to start fixing the composition and batting order. If Moeen is opening now....then he must open in WCup also
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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 9:28 am

There would be no point in using him if we didn't in Aus- I think people worry too much about the conditions- Lets get the players comfortable in there roles and confident about there game and settled in there position.

Also i think time to move Morgan up the order. This is only practise pre WC. lets give him more chances to get himself back into form. Because if England have any chance we will need him- especially now we dont have KP.


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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 9:40 am

Well a win at last! We could actually have decent side taking shape - the bowling is severely under strength at the moment. Hoping for a big victory without Cook in the next game (presumably Morgan to captain?) with his replacement scoring a better than run a ball hundred. Based on this squad plus rested players, team for the World Cup might be:

Cook (I think we are stuck with him)
Moeen
Hales/Taylor
Root
Morgan
Bopara
Buttler
Broad
Tredwell
Anderson
Finn

I don't think that is the worst side in the world in Australian conditions, and has the bowling to take early wickets.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by sirfredperry on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 10:08 am

Cook banned for one match due to slow over rates. This is utter tosh. Invariably all the overs get bowled in limited-over matches yet the captain gets banned.
In Tests, spectators are constantly short-changed by slow over rates and nothing happens.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 10:16 am

well it's consistent with what's happened to other teams, so can't complain too much really. Agree that much harsher punishments are needed in Tests though, I'd like to actually see run penalties...

Hopefully this means Taylor gets a chance, but England will probably go back to Bell...

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 10:35 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Hopefully this means Taylor gets a chance, but England will probably go back to Bell...

That is my fear, and we can almost guarantee an aesthetically pleasing run a ball 25 before he gets out!

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 10:48 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Hopefully this means Taylor gets a chance, but England will probably go back to Bell...

I would rather see Taylor - but fully expect the England management to select Bell. Interestingly a certeain Kevin Pietersen would not be selecting Taylor. His WC 11 is:

Ali, Hales, Bell, Root, Morgan (c), Bopara, Buttler, Stokes, Broad, Tredwell, Anderson.



As to Cook and his position in the team - most of us agree he is not the best batsman available and only there due to being captain. Could we also add Eoin Morgan in to that - his form since the Australia tour in all forms of cricket has been really poor and perhaps only his role as vice-captain is saving him?

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 10:53 am

Morgan and cook sadly need game time and to get better- because neither are going anywhere- which is sad.

T20 has changed the 50 over game.

Taylor should be in the team as a young lad that is adaptable to the new game and Broad should be captain. But as I have said before - I am happy to just support the team. There is no way that will happen- until Cook fails in Oz at the very least.


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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 10:57 am

JDizzle wrote:

Guildford, I actually have come to like Bopara a lot more recently. I'm not sure whether he is someone you can rely on to bowl 10 overs as your banker fifth bowler (certainly not in Australia), but his batting has been nice enough this tour and he was a little unlucky today. His bowling is probably more reliable than Stokes, and possibly Jordan, at this stage too.

...

*Edit* And I'm still totally confused on how DL reduced SL's total for England to chase...

JD - maybe as regards Bopara. It's always useful to have a possible sixth bowling option but you can't select someone on that basis alone. If Bopara is to be chosen for the starting XI, he needs to be as good (or virtually as good) as the other batting contenders. Perhaps he is but he just leaves me feeling rather flat. He comes across to me as a batsman who punches below his weight. Yes, I've seen him make runs but I want him to make a difference. Does he ever do that and change a game in the way that others (eg, Moeen and Buttler) can?

I also particularly noted your reference to Jordan. The lack of reliability (rather than talent) was what brought the curtain down on his career at the Oval. If he makes the cut, his performances in Australia will be very interesting and almost certainly go one of two ways. I certainly don't envisage him of having figures of 0/25 off 10! Reminds me a bit of another ex-Surrey and England speedster, Alex Tudor, who for a short time found the quick wickets Down Under to his liking.

Finally, I was very pleased by your *Edit* addition that I wasn't alone in being mystified as to how DL worked yesterday. When Sri Lanka started their innings, it was on the basis that this was a 50 over game and so I would have expected England's target to have been raised (albeit slightly as the rain came early on in SL's innings).

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 11:04 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Hopefully this means Taylor gets a chance, but England will probably go back to Bell...

I would rather see Taylor - but fully expect the England management to select Bell. Interestingly a certeain Kevin Pietersen would not be selecting Taylor. His WC 11 is:

Ali, Hales, Bell, Root, Morgan (c), Bopara, Buttler, Stokes, Broad, Tredwell, Anderson.



As to Cook and his position in the team - most of us agree he is not the best batsman available and only there due to being captain. Could we also add Eoin Morgan in to that - his form since the Australia tour in all forms of cricket has been really poor and perhaps only his role as vice-captain is saving him?

Not sure about KP's team there - Stokes as one of the front-line bowlers, really?? Bell instead of Taylor, ok Bell has the ability to do a lot better, but surely Taylor needs to be given a chance

Re Morgan, yes he is in horrendous form, but he has played those accelerating innings in the past and has a range of unorthodox shots to pick up runs off good balls. Cook has never had either of those attributes.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 11:18 am

"Finally, I was very pleased by your *Edit* addition that I wasn't alone in being mystified as to how DL worked yesterday. When Sri Lanka started their innings, it was on the basis that this was a 50 over game and so I would have expected England's target to have been raised (albeit slightly as the rain came early on in SL's innings)."

DL works on wickets and not just runs you see, so DL would have assumed that SL wouldn't have batted out the innings therefore they wouldn't have got to the total amount of overs

Which is actually bang on- They lost wickets in the knowledge it was a 50 over game(81 for 3 or something).. Its a clever system.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 11:41 am

Hi mysti - I'm generally ok with the DL system and like to think I understand pretty much how it works. I fully appreciate wickets as well as runs come into it - and quite rightly so.

Still seems harsh to me how it operated yesterday. Almost like a double hit on Sri Lanka. They lost a wicket in the first two overs before the rain came, then had to resume with one man down (no sympathy for them there obviously) and bat a further 33 overs. Then at the end they effectively get their score reduced for losing the early wicket which has already been a handicap to them.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 11:53 am

Did a reduced number of Powerplay overs maybe affect the total?

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 12:04 pm

VTR wrote:Did a reduced number of Powerplay overs maybe affect the total?

Hi VTR - I wouldn't have thought so. As mentioned earlier, the rain came and halted play after only two overs. Although only slight, the reduction of Powerplay overs would have been more to Sr Lanka's disadvantage as they would have expected to have more Powerplay overs when they first commenced their innings than they actually got.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 12:06 pm

Mad for Chelsea - you know all about Duckworth Lewis, what's the answer? Very Happy

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 12:31 pm

Well I'm honoured guildford. Very Happy

It's all explained quite clearly here Very Happy

http://static.ecb.co.uk/files/3140-fc-domestic-duckworthlewis-2013-p127-140-lr-12376.pdf

Basically in layman's terms they work with something they call "ressources" available to a team which is a function of the number of overs remaining and the wickets they have lost. According to DL's tables the loss of ressources to SL's innings from having batted 2 overs and lost one wicket to a 35 over game is less than the loss of ressources to England (from not having batted yet).

So SL were penalised quite heavily for losing that wicket, and the loss of two from their 35 overs wasn't enough to overcome that.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 12:35 pm

For what it's worth had SL batted one more over without losing a wicket before the interruption, they wouldn't have been "in the red" anymore and their target would have been adjusted upwards.

Also worth noting that the way DL works, the higher the score the more it gets adjusted by (in direct proportion in fact).

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 12:49 pm

Thanks, MfC. See, I said you would know all about it. Very Happy

My gut feeling remains that Sri Lanka were harshly treated in this instance but don't expect me to offer an alternative method! As said previously, I think DL generally works well and is normally reasonably transparent given all the possible permutations - it just surprised me (and, apparently, JD also) that it didn't appear so here.

Anyway, DL was very much a side issue to my earlier post today. You or anyone got any views on my comments about Bopara and Jordan? Cheers.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 1:16 pm

for what it's worth, I actually agree with you on this one guildford. I expected SL's score to nudged up by a few runs rather than down, but DL disagrees. See my earlier point about how batting one over longer before the interruption (without wickets) would have nudged the score upwards. Hence it seems that it was only really losing a wicket so early that made the difference, I guess I'm ok with that.

Anyway, onto the more serious matters of the actual cricket.

Bopara. I'm unsure on Bops. My gut feeling is that he does a good job when he comes in with a few overs left to give it a bash and set up a target, but that when he needs to bat longer he takes too long to get going. I'm also not convinced he judges run chases particularly well. I tend to agree with you that a lot of his better innings have been in defeat, and not decisive (though he has guided England home on occasion when the run-rate wasn't the issue). His bowling is however very useful (he obviously shouldn't be bowling at the death, but for 4-5 overs mid-innings he's a decent bet to not give much away).

Now if you don't pick Bops who do you pick? A proper batsman like James Taylor, Gary Ballance? For me leaves England too light on the bowling front. It means you need Moeen to bowl his full quota (maybe 2 overs from Root at a pinch), and are relying on none of your main bowlers to go around the park. I think in modern ODIs six genuine bowling options is almost a minimum requirement: it's why (IMO) SA persist with Behardien (in the absence of Duminy).

Another option would be to go the full five bowlers route. With Woakes, Stokes, Jordan (yes I'll come to him later) and Broad all capable enough with the bat, there's scope to go with five genuine bowlers. Problem: are we then likely to be picking bowlers for their batting? I mean, I wouldn't personally be comfortable with a tail of Woakes, Broad, Tredwell, Finn and Anderson. For me, if we go the five bowlers route, we need to pick at least two of Woakes, Stokes and Jordan (plus Broad) which means one of Finn, Anderson or Tredwell misses out. It may be the case that England don't see these three as part of their first choice team anyway, in which case I wouldn't mind this option.


Jordan. I like him. Good all-round player. Excellent fielder, can give the ball a good whack (more a n°8). His bowling can be inconsistent, but I think he needs to be persevered with. He's also probably England's best death bowler at the moment. This may not be saying much, but... Death bowling is very important nowadays, and England don't seem to be quite right yet there. I also think Jordan's a good thinking cricketer, his slower ball to get rid of Sangakkara the other day proof of this. I'm not sure he's in England's best XI with Anderson and Broad back, but for me he's not too far away.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by VTR on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 1:22 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
VTR wrote:Did a reduced number of Powerplay overs maybe affect the total?

Hi VTR - I wouldn't have thought so. As mentioned earlier, the rain came and halted play after only two overs. Although only slight, the reduction of Powerplay overs would have been more to Sr Lanka's disadvantage as they would have expected to have more Powerplay overs when they first commenced their innings than they actually got.

True! Maybe D/L also factored in how terrible England are, and adjusted down to give us a chance for once!

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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by mystiroakey on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 1:32 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well I'm honoured guildford. Very Happy

It's all explained quite clearly here Very Happy

http://static.ecb.co.uk/files/3140-fc-domestic-duckworthlewis-2013-p127-140-lr-12376.pdf

Basically in layman's terms they work with something they call "ressources" available to a team which is a function of the number of overs remaining and the wickets they have lost. According to DL's tables the loss of ressources to SL's innings from having batted 2 overs and lost one wicket to a 35 over game is less than the loss of ressources to England (from not having batted yet).

So SL were penalised quite heavily for losing that wicket, and the loss of two from their 35 overs wasn't enough to overcome that.

for some reason i thought the interruption was after 3 wickets and not 1 at 2 overs.

I can see the issue here- DL is not perfect- but its still the best we have. The same can be said for DRS Wink




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Re: Eng in Lanka

Post by JDizzle on Thu 04 Dec 2014, 1:39 pm

I, like you Guildford, suspected it would have something to do with the fact that SL had lost a wicket. And despite MFC's superb explanation, it still seems bizarre to me that DL punishes them for losing a wicket by decreasing their total, despite that with the punishment of being 1 down SL still got to 242. If meant no increase at all, that would have made sense given they were only two overs in when the rain came down, but to decrease still doesn't really make sense to me! But thats the system, and I don't have a better one!

Anyway, awa from the the dull stuff, it would be such an England thing to do to bring Bell in for the next match and then when Cook is back for ODI 5, drop Hales to make toom for him. Would sum them up. Got to be Taylor that comes in for me, he's not a 'young young' star anymore, taken on tour to gain experience. It's pointless taking him if you are not in his plans.

With re. to Jordan/Bopara, I think we'll know a lot more about England's plans when they get to Aus to play them and India before the WC. Conditions don't really match the WC here, so roles may change come that time, but at least they are playing ODI cricket.

My memory of last winter is pretty scarred, but didn't Jordan go quite well in the ODI's in Australia? Will definitely go in his favour. Certainly a better bowler than Stokes at this moment of time, white ball anyway. I actually think Bopara could be a fifth bowler in SL (with support from Moeen/Root), but not in Australia. If you drop Bopara, you have to go for another bowler. I just can't trust Moeen and Root to get through 10 overs between them in SL, never mind down under. Then, as MFC mentions, as much as it is a cliche that you pick bowlers to bowl and batters to bat, you just can't do that anymore. 7/8/9 have to contribute with the bat.

Anderson can't bowl in the death and for me, I can't pick a guy to bowl his 10 overs before the 40 over mark. Finn > Anderson, for me. Tredwell at 10, our best spinner. Broad, if back from injury, would be a guy I'd not be comfortable batting above 9 in ODI cricket. Woakes is pretty secure at 7, has bowled tidily enough. Same issues as always though, questions about his penetration.

So that's leaves Stokes/Jordan for the number 8 role. Stokes is a much better bat, but he's not shown it in England blues yet. Potentially because he's not really playing a role he is used to, but he also struggles at the top of the order (3) in Aus last year. Jordan is a better white ball bowler at this moment in time, Stokes is still very inconsistent. Even more so than CJ. And whilst MFC mentions, Jordan's fielding as a contribution, I feel I should highlight Stokes's. Great athlete in the field, good pair of hands and possibly the best arm in world cricket today. It's an absolute hose.

Hales, Ali, JT, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Tredwell, Finn. For the WC.

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Re: Eng in Lanka

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