What is the criteria for PPV?
+18
Gentleman01
3fingers
rob-glos
John Bloody Wayne
Rowley
Hammersmith harrier
hayemaker
Dipper Brown
milkyboy
kingraf
Seanusarrilius
Atila
TopHat24/7
AdamT
wheelchair1991
TRUSSMAN66
BoxingFan88
Pedro147
22 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Boxing
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What is the criteria for PPV?
I ordered the fight in at the weekend, what an idiot I am. The card got progressively worse. Callum Smith's fight was brilliant in that it was a real step-up and people looked on with genuine interest. Quigg, Joshua, Groves, De Gale and the main event were all awful fights. Both in competitiveness and standard of action.
So what is a justification for PPV?
Haye vs Wlad, on paper at least, was PPV worthy with belts on the line in the sports main weight class. It ended up being a PPV disaster due to Haye's inability to throw anything meaningful until the last round.
Floyd is the biggest name in the sport but people probably wouldn't pay to see him because he's so much better than anyone out there and people feel they know the outcome. Only a fight with Manny would be PPV worthy this side of the Atlantic.
The above examples include the sports main weight and a main star.
Truss correctly said that Khan has a massive Asian market so it makes sense to market him in the past as PPV, whether we like it or not. So is the target audience and interest in a fighter enough to make it PPV?
So what in your eyes makes a fight PPV worthy? I genuinely don't know so would be interested to see what you all think.
So what is a justification for PPV?
Haye vs Wlad, on paper at least, was PPV worthy with belts on the line in the sports main weight class. It ended up being a PPV disaster due to Haye's inability to throw anything meaningful until the last round.
Floyd is the biggest name in the sport but people probably wouldn't pay to see him because he's so much better than anyone out there and people feel they know the outcome. Only a fight with Manny would be PPV worthy this side of the Atlantic.
The above examples include the sports main weight and a main star.
Truss correctly said that Khan has a massive Asian market so it makes sense to market him in the past as PPV, whether we like it or not. So is the target audience and interest in a fighter enough to make it PPV?
So what in your eyes makes a fight PPV worthy? I genuinely don't know so would be interested to see what you all think.
Pedro147- Posts : 885
Join date : 2011-03-05
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
I'm ashamed to admit that I also bought this and I feel like a right mug right now.
Only fight I would say is ppv is Manny vs Floyd, I would definitely pay for that.
No doubt Quigg vs Frampton if it happens will be ppv, as would Khan vs Brook and Froch vs TBA
After this weekend I am going to seriously consider the cards before paying out for them from now on.
As for criteria, it has to have good competitive fights and a very good undercard. Really as boxing fans we deserve to get this all the time and not have to pay through the nose to get it, but life doesn't work that way....
Only fight I would say is ppv is Manny vs Floyd, I would definitely pay for that.
No doubt Quigg vs Frampton if it happens will be ppv, as would Khan vs Brook and Froch vs TBA
After this weekend I am going to seriously consider the cards before paying out for them from now on.
As for criteria, it has to have good competitive fights and a very good undercard. Really as boxing fans we deserve to get this all the time and not have to pay through the nose to get it, but life doesn't work that way....
BoxingFan88- Posts : 3759
Join date : 2011-02-20
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Generally a huge star fighting........Or a mouthwateringingly tasty fight between two near-stars...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40491
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
I think ppv has to be something which captures the general public not just us boxing hardcore like froch groves 2 etc but that ppv card at the weekend was a joke, i said it throughout when it ws first made and through the build up. Sky hyped this up so much and it appears to have bitten them on the backside
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
Join date : 2011-07-03
Age : 32
Location : Worcester
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
We won't know until we get the numbers..
Thing is Wheelie that If I take my family out for a meal or just take Red out for a night of debauchery on the town we are talking five/six times the amount for an evening of entertainment.....
Would I rather watch six fights even If they aren't great than sleep through some Rom-com for a similar amount at the movies........Guess so.......She's wise to the old popcorn trick now !!
I didn't buy it because I didn't like the main event............Because Cleverly has always stunk...and I didn't think it was a good thing..
Might of had it If it was Huck-Bellew with the number 1 cruiser spot on the line..I'm sorry to say !
Thing is Wheelie that If I take my family out for a meal or just take Red out for a night of debauchery on the town we are talking five/six times the amount for an evening of entertainment.....
Would I rather watch six fights even If they aren't great than sleep through some Rom-com for a similar amount at the movies........Guess so.......She's wise to the old popcorn trick now !!
I didn't buy it because I didn't like the main event............Because Cleverly has always stunk...and I didn't think it was a good thing..
Might of had it If it was Huck-Bellew with the number 1 cruiser spot on the line..I'm sorry to say !
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40491
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Cotto vs Canelo is ppv
Floyd and Manny vs somebody decent.
Maybe A big British fight if it involves Froch with a good ubdercard.
What about Quigg vs Frampton?
Floyd and Manny vs somebody decent.
Maybe A big British fight if it involves Froch with a good ubdercard.
What about Quigg vs Frampton?
AdamT- Posts : 6651
Join date : 2014-03-27
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
By the way can we get rid of this smiley............It's like looking at my Wife with long hair....
See her enough as it is !!
See her enough as it is !!
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40491
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
There is only 1 criteria for PPV:
1. Will enough people buy it to turn a profit?
1. Will enough people buy it to turn a profit?
Last edited by TopHat24/7 on Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
TopHat24/7 wrote:There is only 1 criteria for PPV:
1. Will enough people buy it to turn a pofit?
Spot on....
With six major undercard fights on Saturday.......Admission by Hearn that it wasn't !!
Interesting to see what happens in the future.
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40491
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
As someone said earlier though this could have undone all the good work done to get the causual fan interested in boxing after Froch v Groves
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
Join date : 2011-07-03
Age : 32
Location : Worcester
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
One of the criteria for PPV is gullible fans who get excited when two fighters fight and shove each other at press conferences and weigh ins. That one never fails.
Atila- Posts : 1709
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Fans are fickle Wheelie.....Don't count on them to to do the right thing..
Remember a few years ago the Owner's son at Newcastle and the Chairman laughed on film that the fans were buying £5 shirts for £50 and that their partners were all slags or something equally as derogatory...
They kept their positions and the Newcastle fans still went and paid their money !!
Be nice to people, care about people but always remember you can't trust anybody apart from your loved ones.........That's my y philosophy...and my middle name is Aristotle !!
Remember a few years ago the Owner's son at Newcastle and the Chairman laughed on film that the fans were buying £5 shirts for £50 and that their partners were all slags or something equally as derogatory...
They kept their positions and the Newcastle fans still went and paid their money !!
Be nice to people, care about people but always remember you can't trust anybody apart from your loved ones.........That's my y philosophy...and my middle name is Aristotle !!
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40491
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
PPV events are driven by demand.
Haye v Wlad was PPV, regardless of the fact it turned out a stinker. the demand was huge. It was PPV
Gatti v Ward 3. Demand was huge. So you charge PPV. And that isn't a world class fight in terms of talent.
This card at the weekend was nowhere near PPV. Bot for quality, excitement or demand. Hearn is losing me with this tripe. It was an utter snooze fest from start to finish.
If he is going to feed us 9 mismatches and a British level PPV ME, then at least make it so they are exciting fights.
DeGale looked great again.
Haye v Wlad was PPV, regardless of the fact it turned out a stinker. the demand was huge. It was PPV
Gatti v Ward 3. Demand was huge. So you charge PPV. And that isn't a world class fight in terms of talent.
This card at the weekend was nowhere near PPV. Bot for quality, excitement or demand. Hearn is losing me with this tripe. It was an utter snooze fest from start to finish.
If he is going to feed us 9 mismatches and a British level PPV ME, then at least make it so they are exciting fights.
DeGale looked great again.
Seanusarrilius- Moderator
- Posts : 5145
Join date : 2011-02-15
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Dammit, Toppy wrote what I was going to. If the sales were good, it's pay per view worthy. If not, isn't. It's literally that simple
kingraf- raf
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Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
If we are honest Hearn was a tad unlucky..
He gambled on it being a great fight as it was meant to be a grudge match..and they talked the talk !!
Had it been a barnstormer the majority wouldn't be complaining like they are now !!
But Clev apparently stunk the place out............As he's prone to do.
He gambled on it being a great fight as it was meant to be a grudge match..and they talked the talk !!
Had it been a barnstormer the majority wouldn't be complaining like they are now !!
But Clev apparently stunk the place out............As he's prone to do.
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40491
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
I don't agree with Truss.
There was never the PPV demand for Bellew v Clev II. Doesn't matter how good a fight it might have been. If Crolla and Abril turns out to be action packed, should it be a PPV?
No
There was never the PPV demand for Bellew v Clev II. Doesn't matter how good a fight it might have been. If Crolla and Abril turns out to be action packed, should it be a PPV?
No
Seanusarrilius- Moderator
- Posts : 5145
Join date : 2011-02-15
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Fans are fickle Wheelie.....Don't count on them to to do the right thing..
Remember a few years ago the Owner's son at Newcastle and the Chairman laughed on film that the fans were buying £5 shirts for £50 and that their partners were all slags or something equally as derogatory...
They kept their positions and the Newcastle fans still went and paid their money !!
Be nice to people, care about people but always remember you can't trust anybody apart from your loved ones.........That's my y philosophy...and my middle name is Aristotle !!
You've always been an 'aris to me truss.
Impressed you feel you can trust your loved ones, do you mean you can trust your wife to put it about a bit and spend the GDP of a small African country on shoes?
milkyboy- Posts : 7761
Join date : 2011-05-22
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
I really, really object to the notion of PPV and it bugs me to hear it creep into boxing fans vernacular to describe the scale of an event. I don't think any fight justifies a fee if you already subscribe to Sky (a network that advertises boxing as part of its schedule).
It's just greed. For me, it's wrong to charge people for something they already pay for.
There's probably not a single boxer I would sit at home and pay to watch.
It's just greed. For me, it's wrong to charge people for something they already pay for.
There's probably not a single boxer I would sit at home and pay to watch.
Dipper Brown- Posts : 1315
Join date : 2014-04-05
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Dipper, remember that boxers get paid better as well as the promoter. Froch earned the right to maximize his earnings in Groves 2 fight. I have no issue with a PPV fight once or twice a year, if it is a stellar event. I do have a line. Hearn has crossed it.
Seanusarrilius- Moderator
- Posts : 5145
Join date : 2011-02-15
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Fair enough Sean but I find it hard to draw an arbitrary line to say 'this fight is PPV and this fight isn't' (I'm aware that's the entire point of this thread).
I don't object to a boxer making a bit of money, it's a hard and dangerous profession but as a consumer I can't get on board with the PPV model.
I don't object to a boxer making a bit of money, it's a hard and dangerous profession but as a consumer I can't get on board with the PPV model.
Dipper Brown- Posts : 1315
Join date : 2014-04-05
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
I appreciate your view, Dipper, and to a degree I have succumbed to the fact I feel PPV is inevitable. I just think in some cases it is ok, but it is a case by case event. Really, we shouldn't have to pay PPV on top of what we already pay.
Seanusarrilius- Moderator
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Join date : 2011-02-15
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
People only have themselves to blame if they bought this. PPV for fighters like Mayweather, Pacquaio, Haye, Froch etc but Bellew and Cleverly ppv is just for boxing fans who dont know better. People buying only makes it more likely to keep happening.
hayemaker- Posts : 141
Join date : 2014-07-17
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Drop the David Haye garbage already, jesus christ.
Hammersmith harrier- Posts : 12060
Join date : 2013-09-26
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Drop the David Haye garbage already, jesus christ.
What's your problem HH? Are you trying to suggest Haye Harrison was not worth £15 of your hard earned cash? My only regret over that night was there was not a way I could have paid them more.
Rowley- Admin
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Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Were you forced to pay? Haye promised he would destroy Audley and he did. Not sure what else you were expecting!
hayemaker- Posts : 141
Join date : 2014-07-17
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
If I was a sky sports subscriber I'd be furious with the idea of PPV, for the reasons above. As I'm not I feel sky are simply letting boxnation get a foot in, as with them you pay the subscription, get the average fights plus international mega stars (actual ones, not Froch).
And Frank sends you flirtatious snap chats
And Frank sends you flirtatious snap chats
John Bloody Wayne- Posts : 4460
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : behind you
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
He promised he would destroy Wlad as well if memory serves.
Rowley- Admin
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Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Rowley wrote:He promised he would destroy Wlad as well if memory serves.
Wlad is a different prospect entirely to Audley. I think Haye was 100% confident he would win but if anything he was overconfident and underestimated how good Wlad was. I think everyone did really. Totally wrong gameplan.
I dont get why people complain after they buy a ppv. If you thought before a fight that Bellew v Cleverly was worth ppv or that a joke like Harrison was going to be anything other than an easy KO for Haye then sorry but its probably your own fault unless someone is forcing you to pay. I knew Cleverly v Bellew was not worth ppv so I didnt pay. I knew Haye would destroy Audley the biggest joke in boxing Harrison and I was happy to pay to see it. Money well spent!
hayemaker- Posts : 141
Join date : 2014-07-17
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Seems like Froch-Chavez is getting close to getting done.
Reckon they'll PPV that at 4am?
Reckon they'll PPV that at 4am?
rob-glos- Posts : 613
Join date : 2011-06-27
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
If they do i again will not buy
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
Join date : 2011-07-03
Age : 32
Location : Worcester
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
It will be PPV. Of course it will. Look what Hearn just fed us for 16.95
Seanusarrilius- Moderator
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Join date : 2011-02-15
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
He wont get good numbers for it here at 4am i wouldnt have thought i know Hatton did but not sure Froch against Chavez Jr does
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
Join date : 2011-07-03
Age : 32
Location : Worcester
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Agree, but will be PPV.
Seanusarrilius- Moderator
- Posts : 5145
Join date : 2011-02-15
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
If i was trying to justify the card I'd say the same as Hearn..
5 Former, Current or World title Challangers, and 2 Olympic champions, one a contender and the other the future heavyweight champion of the world, all need paying a decent wedge and to do that it needed to be pay per view.
I would probably keep this part to myself..... 'if I paid them from the sky contract then I wouldnt get paid, actually it would probably end up costing me'
5 Former, Current or World title Challangers, and 2 Olympic champions, one a contender and the other the future heavyweight champion of the world, all need paying a decent wedge and to do that it needed to be pay per view.
I would probably keep this part to myself..... 'if I paid them from the sky contract then I wouldnt get paid, actually it would probably end up costing me'
3fingers- Posts : 1482
Join date : 2013-10-15
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Yeah but he didnt need to put so many fighters on the undercard did he, he only did that to justify it being ppv as the undercard was 'stacked'
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
Join date : 2011-07-03
Age : 32
Location : Worcester
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Chavez-Froch PPV figures will be near non-existent. Hardly anyone in the UK is going to pay for that, given the 4am ME start, and Froch's following in the US is nothing special so doubt it'll pull much in over there.
Would Froch ever co-headline? Or even take the #2 slot? As that's the only way I could see it working.
Would Froch ever co-headline? Or even take the #2 slot? As that's the only way I could see it working.
Last edited by TopHat24/7 on Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Obviously, as others have already mentioned, TopHat is correct. A card will be retrospectively judged PPV worthy if it was able to turn a decent profit.
In some respects I agree with Dipper that, putting cards on PPV on an already pay-to-subscribe network is a little galling. However, I think it’s justified when the additional revenue that a PPV event would generate is needed in order to pay for the fighters purses and fund a large-scale event. Therefore, I’m certainly happy to pay the extra money for a genuinely big show, like Froch vs. Groves II, for example.
Having said that, £17 isn’t ruinously expensive and, as TRUSS mentioned, in all likelihood an evening in with a few friends, some beers, and with the cost of the PPV split between us, is far more enjoyable, and cheaper, than a typical night out.
In some respects I agree with Dipper that, putting cards on PPV on an already pay-to-subscribe network is a little galling. However, I think it’s justified when the additional revenue that a PPV event would generate is needed in order to pay for the fighters purses and fund a large-scale event. Therefore, I’m certainly happy to pay the extra money for a genuinely big show, like Froch vs. Groves II, for example.
Having said that, £17 isn’t ruinously expensive and, as TRUSS mentioned, in all likelihood an evening in with a few friends, some beers, and with the cost of the PPV split between us, is far more enjoyable, and cheaper, than a typical night out.
Gentleman01- Posts : 454
Join date : 2011-02-24
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
I almost think Hearn was on to a winner here with the concept, almost. Except as Wheelchair said, he stacked the card with names rather than stacking the card with potential great fights. I think none of us would have a problem paying for a domestic ppv if it had the top domestic stars fighting each other with less fights on the card. For example, who here would have objected to paying 16.95 for:
Groves vs DeGale main event
Cleverly - Bellew II
Scott Quigg - Kid Galahad
Callum Smith - Rocky Fielding
AJ - Tony Thompson.
The above to me would be worthy of a domestic PPV. Instead next year I feel we are going to see other PPVs follwing the Celverly Bellew II mould: Brook-Khan, Quigg-Frampton, Groves - DeGale, Froch Chavez, Joshua Fury/Chrisora/Price will all be PPV within the next 18months I believe.
Groves vs DeGale main event
Cleverly - Bellew II
Scott Quigg - Kid Galahad
Callum Smith - Rocky Fielding
AJ - Tony Thompson.
The above to me would be worthy of a domestic PPV. Instead next year I feel we are going to see other PPVs follwing the Celverly Bellew II mould: Brook-Khan, Quigg-Frampton, Groves - DeGale, Froch Chavez, Joshua Fury/Chrisora/Price will all be PPV within the next 18months I believe.
theanimal316- Posts : 471
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 37
Location : Belfast
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
I think most would pay for that card, even if you took out Bellew vs. Clev lll (perhaps even more so, if you removed it..)
Generally speaking; I don't pay extra to watch good fighters. I pay to watch good fights.
Generally speaking; I don't pay extra to watch good fighters. I pay to watch good fights.
Gentleman01- Posts : 454
Join date : 2011-02-24
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
theanimal316 wrote:I almost think Hearn was on to a winner here with the concept, almost. Except as Wheelchair said, he stacked the card with names rather than stacking the card with potential great fights. I think none of us would have a problem paying for a domestic ppv if it had the top domestic stars fighting each other with less fights on the card. For example, who here would have objected to paying 16.95 for:
Groves vs DeGale main event
Cleverly - Bellew II
Scott Quigg - Kid Galahad
Callum Smith - Rocky Fielding
AJ - Tony Thompson.
The above to me would be worthy of a domestic PPV. Instead next year I feel we are going to see other PPVs follwing the Celverly Bellew II mould: Brook-Khan, Quigg-Frampton, Groves - DeGale, Froch Chavez, Joshua Fury/Chrisora/Price will all be PPV within the next 18months I believe.
Agree.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
PPV WORTHY?
At least 2 world title fights and a punnet of fresh strawberries delivered to my door...with Louis Walsh beheaded by ISIS just before the main event
At least 2 world title fights and a punnet of fresh strawberries delivered to my door...with Louis Walsh beheaded by ISIS just before the main event
Guest- Guest
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
DAVE667 wrote:PPV WORTHY?
At least 2 world title fights and a punnet of fresh strawberries delivered to my door...with Louis Walsh beheaded by ISIS just before the main event
Are ISIS one of Simon's groups?
Pedro147- Posts : 885
Join date : 2011-03-05
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Yep... comprised of Ian, Sarah, Isla and Stephen (not one to miss a trick our Cowell)
Guest- Guest
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
hayemaker wrote:Were you forced to pay? Haye promised he would destroy Audley and he did. Not sure what else you were expecting!
This guy is making D4 look normal..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40491
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:hayemaker wrote:Were you forced to pay? Haye promised he would destroy Audley and he did. Not sure what else you were expecting!
This guy is making D4 look normal..
Too far Truss, too far.
rob-glos- Posts : 613
Join date : 2011-06-27
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Anyone heard how many buys "Repeat of Revenge" did?
catchweight- Posts : 4326
Join date : 2013-09-18
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
No but i bet it was a fair few after all the hype sky gave it
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
Join date : 2011-07-03
Age : 32
Location : Worcester
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
When it's comes to Matchroom they only have one PPV fighter end of.
If Eddie cared a jot for the fans he wouldn't have tried to pull a fast one last Saturday.
If Eddie cared a jot for the fans he wouldn't have tried to pull a fast one last Saturday.
Strongback- Posts : 6529
Join date : 2011-07-01
Location : Matchroom Sports Head Office
Re: What is the criteria for PPV?
Hearn tried to pull a fast one alright. I think he had planned for a ppv around this time for a tidy profit but was planning for Brook to headline the event with Bellew and Cleverly as a support. When Brook got stabbed I think Hearn found himself facing losing his anticipated Christmas bonus along with a bunch of fighters on his books that needed a run out and a chequeue. So he threw together this piddling ppv card to cover under the guise of some juicy strawberries.
catchweight- Posts : 4326
Join date : 2013-09-18
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