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What is the criteria for PPV?

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Post by Pedro147 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 1:18 pm

I ordered the fight in at the weekend, what an idiot I am. The card got progressively worse. Callum Smith's fight was brilliant in that it was a real step-up and people looked on with genuine interest. Quigg, Joshua, Groves, De Gale and the main event were all awful fights. Both in competitiveness and standard of action.

So what is a justification for PPV?

Haye vs Wlad, on paper at least, was PPV worthy with belts on the line in the sports main weight class. It ended up being a PPV disaster due to Haye's inability to throw anything meaningful until the last round.

Floyd is the biggest name in the sport but people probably wouldn't pay to see him because he's so much better than anyone out there and people feel they know the outcome. Only a fight with Manny would be PPV worthy this side of the Atlantic.

The above examples include the sports main weight and a main star.

Truss correctly said that Khan has a massive Asian market so it makes sense to market him in the past as PPV, whether we like it or not. So is the target audience and interest in a fighter enough to make it PPV?

So what in your eyes makes a fight PPV worthy? I genuinely don't know so would be interested to see what you all think.

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Post by BoxingFan88 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 2:25 pm

I'm ashamed to admit that I also bought this and I feel like a right mug right now.

Only fight I would say is ppv is Manny vs Floyd, I would definitely pay for that.

No doubt Quigg vs Frampton if it happens will be ppv, as would Khan vs Brook and Froch vs TBA

After this weekend I am going to seriously consider the cards before paying out for them from now on.

As for criteria, it has to have good competitive fights and a very good undercard. Really as boxing fans we deserve to get this all the time and not have to pay through the nose to get it, but life doesn't work that way....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 2:40 pm

Generally a huge star fighting........Or a mouthwateringingly tasty fight between two near-stars...

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Post by wheelchair1991 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 2:41 pm

I think ppv has to be something which captures the general public not just us boxing hardcore like froch groves 2 etc but that ppv card at the weekend was a joke, i said it throughout when it ws first made and through the build up. Sky hyped this up so much and it appears to have bitten them on the backside

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 2:53 pm

We won't know until we get the numbers..

Thing is Wheelie that If I take my family out for a meal or just take Red out for a night of debauchery on the town we are talking five/six times the amount for an evening of entertainment.....

Would I rather watch six fights even If they aren't great than sleep through some Rom-com for a similar amount at the movies........Guess so.......She's wise to the old popcorn trick now !! What is the criteria for PPV? 3559488474 What is the criteria for PPV? 3559488474 What is the criteria for PPV? 3559488474 What is the criteria for PPV? 3559488474 Wink Wink Wink Cool

I didn't buy it because I didn't like the main event............Because Cleverly has always stunk...and I didn't think it was a good thing..

Might of had it If it was Huck-Bellew with the number 1 cruiser spot on the line..I'm sorry to say !

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Post by AdamT Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:00 pm

Cotto vs Canelo is ppv

Floyd and Manny vs somebody decent.

Maybe A big British fight if it involves Froch with a good ubdercard.

What about Quigg vs Frampton?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:01 pm

What is the criteria for PPV? 3559488474 By the way can we get rid of this smiley............It's like looking at my Wife with long hair....

See her enough as it is !!

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Post by TopHat24/7 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:03 pm

There is only 1 criteria for PPV:

1. Will enough people buy it to turn a profit?


Last edited by TopHat24/7 on Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:06 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:There is only 1 criteria for PPV:

1. Will enough people buy it to turn a pofit?

Spot on....

With six major undercard fights on Saturday.......Admission by Hearn that it wasn't !!

Interesting to see what happens in the future.

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Post by wheelchair1991 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:21 pm

As someone said earlier though this could have undone all the good work done to get the causual fan interested in boxing after Froch v Groves

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Post by Atila Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:40 pm

One of the criteria for PPV is gullible fans who get excited when two fighters fight and shove each other at press conferences and weigh ins. That one never fails.


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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:42 pm

Fans are fickle Wheelie.....Don't count on them to to do the right thing..

Remember a few years ago the Owner's son at Newcastle and the Chairman laughed on film that the fans were buying £5 shirts for £50 and that their partners were all slags or something equally as derogatory...

They kept their positions and the Newcastle fans still went and paid their money !!

Be nice to people, care about people but always remember you can't trust anybody apart from your loved ones.........That's my y philosophy...and my middle name is Aristotle !!

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Post by Seanusarrilius Mon 24 Nov 2014, 3:45 pm

PPV events are driven by demand.

Haye v Wlad was PPV, regardless of the fact it turned out a stinker. the demand was huge. It was PPV
Gatti v Ward 3. Demand was huge. So you charge PPV. And that isn't a world class fight in terms of talent.

This card at the weekend was nowhere near PPV. Bot for quality, excitement or demand. Hearn is losing me with this tripe. It was an utter snooze fest from start to finish.

If he is going to feed us 9 mismatches and a British level PPV ME, then at least make it so they are exciting fights.


DeGale looked great again.

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Post by kingraf Mon 24 Nov 2014, 4:09 pm

Dammit, Toppy wrote what I was going to. If the sales were good, it's pay per view worthy. If not, isn't. It's literally that simple
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 4:10 pm

If we are honest Hearn was a tad unlucky..

He gambled on it being a great fight as it was meant to be a grudge match..and they talked the talk !!

Had it been a barnstormer the majority wouldn't be complaining like they are now !!

But Clev apparently stunk the place out............As he's prone to do.

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Post by Seanusarrilius Mon 24 Nov 2014, 4:24 pm

I don't agree with Truss.

There was never the PPV demand for Bellew v Clev II. Doesn't matter how good a fight it might have been. If Crolla and Abril turns out to be action packed, should it be a PPV?

No

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Post by milkyboy Mon 24 Nov 2014, 4:56 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Fans are fickle Wheelie.....Don't count on them to to do the right thing..

Remember a few years ago the Owner's son at Newcastle and the Chairman laughed on film that the fans were buying £5 shirts for £50 and that their partners were all slags or something equally as derogatory...

They kept their positions and the Newcastle fans still went and paid their money !!

Be nice to people, care about people but always remember you can't trust anybody apart from your loved ones.........That's my y philosophy...and my middle name is Aristotle !!

You've always been an 'aris to me truss.

Impressed you feel you can trust your loved ones, do you mean you can trust your wife to put it about a bit and spend the GDP of a small African country on shoes?

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Post by Dipper Brown Mon 24 Nov 2014, 4:57 pm

I really, really object to the notion of PPV and it bugs me to hear it creep into boxing fans vernacular to describe the scale of an event. I don't think any fight justifies a fee if you already subscribe to Sky (a network that advertises boxing as part of its schedule).

It's just greed. For me, it's wrong to charge people for something they already pay for.

There's probably not a single boxer I would sit at home and pay to watch.

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Post by Seanusarrilius Mon 24 Nov 2014, 5:01 pm

Dipper, remember that boxers get paid better as well as the promoter. Froch earned the right to maximize his earnings in Groves 2 fight. I have no issue with a PPV fight once or twice a year, if it is a stellar event. I do have a line. Hearn has crossed it.

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Post by Dipper Brown Mon 24 Nov 2014, 5:13 pm

Fair enough Sean but I find it hard to draw an arbitrary line to say 'this fight is PPV and this fight isn't' (I'm aware that's the entire point of this thread).

I don't object to a boxer making a bit of money, it's a hard and dangerous profession but as a consumer I can't get on board with the PPV model.

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Post by Seanusarrilius Mon 24 Nov 2014, 5:56 pm

I appreciate your view, Dipper, and to a degree I have succumbed to the fact I feel PPV is inevitable. I just think in some cases it is ok, but it is a case by case event. Really, we shouldn't have to pay PPV on top of what we already pay.

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Post by hayemaker Mon 24 Nov 2014, 7:29 pm

People only have themselves to blame if they bought this. PPV for fighters like Mayweather, Pacquaio, Haye, Froch etc but Bellew and Cleverly ppv is just for boxing fans who dont know better. People buying only makes it more likely to keep happening.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Mon 24 Nov 2014, 7:34 pm

Drop the David Haye garbage already, jesus christ.

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Post by hayemaker Mon 24 Nov 2014, 7:43 pm

Haye is a ppv fighter

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Post by Rowley Mon 24 Nov 2014, 7:46 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Drop the David Haye garbage already, jesus christ.

What's your problem HH? Are you trying to suggest Haye Harrison was not worth £15 of your hard earned cash? My only regret over that night was there was not a way I could have paid them more.

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Post by hayemaker Mon 24 Nov 2014, 7:48 pm

Were you forced to pay? Haye promised he would destroy Audley and he did. Not sure what else you were expecting!

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Post by John Bloody Wayne Mon 24 Nov 2014, 7:51 pm

If I was a sky sports subscriber I'd be furious with the idea of PPV, for the reasons above. As I'm not I feel sky are simply letting boxnation get a foot in, as with them you pay the subscription, get the average fights plus international mega stars (actual ones, not Froch).

And Frank sends you flirtatious snap chats

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Post by Rowley Mon 24 Nov 2014, 7:51 pm

He promised he would destroy Wlad as well if memory serves.

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Post by hayemaker Mon 24 Nov 2014, 7:59 pm

Rowley wrote:He promised he would destroy Wlad as well if memory serves.

Wlad is a different prospect entirely to Audley. I think Haye was 100% confident he would win but if anything he was overconfident and underestimated how good Wlad was. I think everyone did really. Totally wrong gameplan.

I dont get why people complain after they buy a ppv. If you thought before a fight that Bellew v Cleverly was worth ppv or that a joke like Harrison was going to be anything other than an easy KO for Haye then sorry but its probably your own fault unless someone is forcing you to pay. I knew Cleverly v Bellew was not worth ppv so I didnt pay. I knew Haye would destroy Audley the biggest joke in boxing Harrison and I was happy to pay to see it. Money well spent!

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Post by rob-glos Mon 24 Nov 2014, 10:29 pm

Seems like Froch-Chavez is getting close to getting done. 
Reckon they'll PPV that at 4am?

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Post by wheelchair1991 Mon 24 Nov 2014, 10:58 pm

If they do i again will not buy

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Post by Seanusarrilius Mon 24 Nov 2014, 11:57 pm

It will be PPV. Of course it will. Look what Hearn just fed us for 16.95

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Post by wheelchair1991 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:19 am

He wont get good numbers for it here at 4am i wouldnt have thought i know Hatton did but not sure Froch against Chavez Jr does

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Post by Seanusarrilius Tue 25 Nov 2014, 3:52 am

Agree, but will be PPV.

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Post by 3fingers Tue 25 Nov 2014, 6:58 am

If i was trying to justify the card I'd say the same as Hearn..

5 Former, Current or World title Challangers, and 2 Olympic champions, one a contender and the other the future heavyweight champion of the world, all need paying a decent wedge and to do that it needed to be pay per view.

I would probably keep this part to myself..... 'if I paid them from the sky contract then I wouldnt get paid, actually it would probably end up costing me'

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Post by wheelchair1991 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 8:00 am

Yeah but he didnt need to put so many fighters on the undercard did he, he only did that to justify it being ppv as the undercard was 'stacked'

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:38 am

Chavez-Froch PPV figures will be near non-existent.  Hardly anyone in the UK is going to pay for that, given the 4am ME start, and Froch's following in the US is nothing special so doubt it'll pull much in over there.

Would Froch ever co-headline? Or even take the #2 slot? As that's the only way I could see it working.


Last edited by TopHat24/7 on Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Gentleman01 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:39 am

Obviously, as others have already mentioned, TopHat is correct. A card will be retrospectively judged PPV worthy if it was able to turn a decent profit.

In some respects I agree with Dipper that, putting cards on PPV on an already pay-to-subscribe network is a little galling. However, I think it’s justified when the additional revenue that a PPV event would generate is needed in order to pay for the fighters purses and fund a large-scale event. Therefore, I’m certainly happy to pay the extra money for a genuinely big show, like Froch vs. Groves II, for example.

Having said that, £17 isn’t ruinously expensive and, as TRUSS mentioned, in all likelihood an evening in with a few friends, some beers, and with the cost of the PPV split between us, is far more enjoyable, and cheaper, than a typical night out.

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Post by theanimal316 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 11:06 am

I almost think Hearn was on to a winner here with the concept, almost. Except as Wheelchair said, he stacked the card with names rather than stacking the card with potential great fights. I think none of us would have a problem paying for a domestic ppv if it had the top domestic stars fighting each other with less fights on the card. For example, who here would have objected to paying 16.95 for:
Groves vs DeGale main event
Cleverly - Bellew II
Scott Quigg - Kid Galahad
Callum Smith - Rocky Fielding
AJ - Tony Thompson.
The above to me would be worthy of a domestic PPV. Instead next year I feel we are going to see other PPVs follwing the Celverly Bellew II mould: Brook-Khan, Quigg-Frampton, Groves - DeGale, Froch Chavez, Joshua Fury/Chrisora/Price will all be PPV within the next 18months I believe.

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Post by Gentleman01 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 11:31 am

I think most would pay for that card, even if you took out Bellew vs. Clev lll (perhaps even more so, if you removed it..)

Generally speaking; I don't pay extra to watch good fighters. I pay to watch good fights.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 12:22 pm

theanimal316 wrote:I almost think Hearn was on to a winner here with the concept, almost.  Except as Wheelchair said, he stacked the card with names rather than stacking the card with potential great fights.  I think none of us would have a problem paying for a domestic ppv if it had the top domestic stars fighting each other with less fights on the card.  For example, who here would have objected to paying 16.95 for:
Groves vs DeGale main event
Cleverly - Bellew II
Scott Quigg - Kid Galahad
Callum Smith - Rocky Fielding
AJ - Tony Thompson.
The above to me would be worthy of a domestic PPV.  Instead next year I feel we are going to see other PPVs follwing the Celverly Bellew II mould: Brook-Khan, Quigg-Frampton, Groves - DeGale, Froch Chavez, Joshua Fury/Chrisora/Price will all be PPV within the next 18months I believe.

Agree.

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Post by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:43 pm

PPV WORTHY?

At least 2 world title fights and a punnet of fresh strawberries delivered to my door...with Louis Walsh beheaded by ISIS just before the main event

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Post by Pedro147 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:49 pm

DAVE667 wrote:PPV WORTHY?

At least 2 world title fights and a punnet of fresh strawberries delivered to my door...with Louis Walsh beheaded by ISIS just before the main event

Are ISIS one of Simon's groups?

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Post by Guest Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:51 pm

Yep... comprised of Ian, Sarah, Isla and Stephen (not one to miss a trick our Cowell)

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 2:56 pm

hayemaker wrote:Were you forced to pay? Haye promised he would destroy Audley and he did. Not sure what else you were expecting!

This guy is making D4 look normal..

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Post by rob-glos Tue 25 Nov 2014, 7:32 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hayemaker wrote:Were you forced to pay? Haye promised he would destroy Audley and he did. Not sure what else you were expecting!

This guy is making D4 look normal..

Too far Truss, too far.

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Post by catchweight Tue 25 Nov 2014, 8:05 pm

Anyone heard how many buys "Repeat of Revenge" did?

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Post by wheelchair1991 Tue 25 Nov 2014, 8:59 pm

No but i bet it was a fair few after all the hype sky gave it

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Post by Strongback Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:26 pm

When it's comes to Matchroom they only have one PPV fighter end of.

If Eddie cared a jot for the fans he wouldn't have tried to pull a fast one last Saturday.

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Post by catchweight Tue 25 Nov 2014, 9:46 pm

Hearn tried to pull a fast one alright. I think he had planned for a ppv around this time for a tidy profit but was planning for Brook to headline the event with Bellew and Cleverly as a support. When Brook got stabbed I think Hearn found himself facing losing his anticipated Christmas bonus along with a bunch of fighters on his books that needed a run out and a chequeue. So he threw together this piddling ppv card to cover under the guise of some juicy strawberries.

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