Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

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Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Mon 08 Dec 2014, 5:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

The test series is eventually getting underway tomorrow, under extraordinary circumstances.
The death of Phillip Hughes is a massive tragedy for the game, but alas, we have to move on, and in a way, what better way than actually getting back to playing the game, though the proposition would be a hugely demanding one for all the players involved. The first match of the restructured 4 test series is starting in Adelaide in a few hours, Adelaide that has been Hughes' adopted homeground for the past couple of seasons.
Though both skippers were under fitness issues leading up to the series start, Michael Clarke has recovered enough to lead the side while the Indians do not seem keen to take any chance with Mahendra Singh Dhoni's thumb, considering the up-coming world cup. So Virat Kohli will be leading India in a test for the first time as was originally scheduled, and wicketkeeper Wriddhiman Saha will be playing his 3rd test. India will be without Bhuvneshwar Kumar, their outstanding player of an otherwise disastrous series in England at least for the 1st couple of games due to an ankle injury.
how would events of the last few days reflect in the middle? What role would the bouncer play in the game and in the series? How different would be Kohli as a skipper to Dhoni? Will there be any bold selections like KL Rahul to open or Karn Sharma as the spinner from the Indians? Shane Watson and Mitchell Marsh playing together, what an interesting prospect that would be? Will Clarke be able to hold his increasingly rebelling body together? Which Mitchell Johnson will turn up for the game and series? Will the Indians do any better than what they managed in the last Australian tour?
Lets debate, and lets get back to the game.......

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by KP_fan on Tue 09 Dec 2014, 9:21 pm

msp83 wrote:Only watched the game in parts on day one, but whenever I watched Karn, he wasn't flighting it much, he was on the flattish side rather than flighting it much. You don't expect even a leggy to rip it across the batsman on a day one track, but in such circumstances, one way to be proactive is to try and beat the batsman in the air, didn't think Karn did enough of that.

--Yes that's his strength...he is not flight dependent ( hence less reliant on pitch)...but puts so much rip (revs) with a slightly side-arm action( side spin).
Warne had a so distinct side-spine action on unhelpful pitches...and was his stock action.
Warne's geniuses meant he could switch to the flighted (overspin) on more helpful pitches.

--Look flight and revs/ rips are inversely proportional.....it's practically not possible to put too many revs when you flight..and that's why flight type bowlers ( look at Mishra or Ojha) need a helpful pitch to make them potent. And they use overspin ..their arm is perpendicular to shoulder at delivery.

--side spin is rarer and allows putting so many more revs / rip because the arm is cutting at anywhere from 15 to sometimes 45 degree off the shoulder...so you can generate a lot more power using the shoulder to rev the ball.
Karn is exciting for that reason......a side spin bowler coming from a country where there is little culture and history of this type of bowling



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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by ShankyCricket on Tue 09 Dec 2014, 10:39 pm

Why do you love Ashwin and Jadeja so much, msp? They are not only failures but proven rank disasters overseas. Whats the harm in giving a leggie with obvious potential a decent run? Totally agree with KPF on Karn's potential.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 3:17 am

A few interruptions today with some rain.

Clarke resumed on 60 and seems to be moving OK for the time being. What ever they gave him seems to have worked for now.
Play was delayed for over 2 hours with Smith stranded on 98* but he has just got his ton now. Currently 103*

Now another rain delay with Clarke on 98*
A brief pause when the score passed 408... it's now 423/6.

The last session will extend to 7:00pm CST since only about 14 overs have been bowled today.

Maybe time for a declaration soon with the wet outfield and overcast sky... if they can get back out there and if Clarke can get those 2 more runs.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:16 am

As I was expecting yesterday at end of play, India letting things slip yet again. And this time there is no Mahendra Singh Dhoni to be blamed

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:16 am

The rain that took time off the gthing going for India today.......

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:18 am

Overcast conditions and Johnson will now finish them off, whenever Clarke thinks enough of batting.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by kingraf on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 5:29 am

how do you regain the momentum and basically throw it away?
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by VTR on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 7:31 am

Well that has gone better for Aus than they would have dared hope for. What a player Steven Smith has become! Aarons economy rate, oh dear....

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by KP_fan on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 9:12 am

msp83 wrote:As I was expecting yesterday at end of play, India letting things slip yet again. And this time there is no Mahendra Singh Dhoni to be blamed

I am sure Dhoni is the heavy-weight think tank......he can't be sitting in the dressing room doing nothing ??
I guess the Indians felt cheated....seeing Clarke come out to bat when their expectation was set that he wasn't just out for the game but possibly the entire series. Very Happy

Dhoni didn't prepare him for this scenario Shocked

I expect Aus to declare on the overnight score and try to enforce a follow on with 3 days left
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 9:48 am

Yeah KP_f, so he didn't need a runner after all. Very Happy

The weather here is unusual for this time of year. This seems more like February with the amount of rain we've been having.
Before that... it was so hot and dry... every day the same for months on end. From Dec 1 there has been 10 days of heavy rain in a row now along the east coast... but Adelaide only just got the faint under edge of the system today.

It should be fine the next few days in Adelaide. The big wet is sliding down the country from NW to SE with some very heavy storms in the desert (pretty unusual) but southern SA/Gulf country will miss the brunt of the system and so should be one of the first areas of the continent to clear up.

Thur 15-26 sunny
Fri 15-29 sunny
Sat 17-31 sunny
Sun 17-29 sunny

I'm eager to see Australia do some bowling now. There will most likely be an overnight declaration and a fresh bowling attack in the morning.
They have plenty of runs on the board but they'll need to be wary of the time left to get the job done.

I think they will get something out of this wicket now. It's not your typical Adelaide Oval conditions with more moisture. We'll have to wait and see.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Mike Selig on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 11:45 am

Today making a slight mockery of people saying Clarke had been selfish or that India were in the driving seat yesterday.

I didn't watch much of yesterday, I watched a lot more than today so feel better placed to comment.

The pitch is nice for batting on, but there is pace and bounce there, and a lovely covering of grass. I expect it to look quite different once the Aussies start bowling. I don't however expect it will deteriorate much, so don't think batting last will be as much of a challenge as it has been at Adelaide in the past. Partly this is because of the nature of drop-in pitches, and partly because we haven't had the usual hot dry weather which breaks the pitch up.

Clarke was clearly in pain throughout the innings, will be interesting to see how he recovers for the rest of the series. Without him Australia's batting would look significantly weaker, particularly with Rogers and Haddin going through a (permanent in Rogers's case?) bad patch and Watson yet to establish himself at 3 fully.

Smith continues to impress. With all the (understandable) focus on Warner and Clarke's knocks, his innings has gone relatively unnoticed. What strikes is his cricket brain and adaptability, and how he can build an innings and go through the gears. I read on twitter that he averages just over 100 in first innings knocks since 2013 - impressive stat if true.

From an Indian perspective I think it unnecessarily harsh and reactionary to judge Virat Kohli's captaincy based on one innings, or to argue that under Dhoni India would have fared better. That is pure speculation. Australia play an aggressive brand of cricket and were always likely to score quickly. The issue with Dhoni's captaincy was not that he went defensive, but that he did so too early, too often and stuck to defensive strategies for too long. I don't see how you can say that Dhoni's approach was justified based on the one innings.

Particularly given that apart from a couple of spells from Ishant Sharma and one from Shami, the Indian bowlers have been poor across the board. I have to say I wasn't particularly impressed by Karn Sharma, although leg-spin is hard (and IMO a lot harder today even than when Warne was playing say) and he is young, so it would be harsh to judge him. I actually think from a technical viewpoint his arm is a bit too high given that he wants to bowl with side-spin predominantly.

KPF's analysis of different types of leg-spin bowling is fairly close to accurate, although over-simplistic. It is certainly harder to beat the batsman in flight when bowling with side-spin than over-spin, but flight it Sharma certainly must learn to do as if you can't deceive the batsman even a little bit in the air then you are relying solely on beating them off the pitch.

The bit about KPF's post I disagree with is that overspin bowlers need more help from the pitch - on the contrary, I would say very much the opposite; side-spin bowlers need the pitch to give them some turn, whereas over-spin bowlers can still deceive the batsman in flight on the flattest of pitches; they are also more likely to bowl with control so will contain more (and therefore more likely induce a false shot) on flat wickets.

Finally a point I feel I must make: Aaron has potential but he isn't fit enough - his pace dropped off notably yesterday, and he was terrible today. Earlier in the England series Pankaj wasn't fit enough. What is it about Indian seamers coming up that they simply aren't fit enough for international cricket? And what is Indian cricket doing (if anything) to change this?

As for future prospects on this game, Australia will almost certainly declare overnight you'd feel. Then it's a question of whether India can bat well enough to save the game (avoiding the follow-on would be a good start, although I'm not convinced Clarke will enforce if given the option). A draw is still a possibility but Australia look favourites right now.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 11:50 am

I said at the end of day one that Australia were in ''the better position''. How fantastically they've built on that in just 30 overs.

Watching the highlights, I probably did Smith a disservice in feeling that he was sometimes closer to being reckless than aggressive. Certainly, India did themselves no favours by missing him more than once as he blatantly took the bowlers on. However, I didn't appreciate then what a shortened day this was. With immaculate guidance from Clarke, Smith has bludgeoned Australia to a position in which they cannot lose. Too early to properly contemplate how likely they are to win when India have yet to bat at all but Australia must still be confident.

I too expect Australia to declare on this overnight score. After that, they'll be hoping for good bowling and not too many more weather interruptions. The Dog has assured us of the latter anyway.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by kingraf on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 4:57 pm

Well, I'm one of those people who thought India had done well to pull it back yesterday, and went as far as to say should Clarke not return, they'd have cause to feel like they had their noses in front. Well... Clarke returned, and Smith, who I've become a big fan of, pretty much then tore them to shreds.

Long way back for India, but they still have the best of batting conditions, and maybe, without the extra swing of the Duke can show the required chutzpah to bat themselves safe. Absolutely ransacked today though.
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 7:12 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Today making a slight mockery of people saying Clarke had been selfish or that India were in the driving seat yesterday.

I didn't watch much of yesterday, I watched a lot more than today so feel better placed to comment.

The pitch is nice for batting on, but there is pace and bounce there, and a lovely covering of grass. I expect it to look quite different once the Aussies start bowling. I don't however expect it will deteriorate much, so don't think batting last will be as much of a challenge as it has been at Adelaide in the past. Partly this is because of the nature of drop-in pitches, and partly because we haven't had the usual hot dry weather which breaks the pitch up.

Clarke was clearly in pain throughout the innings, will be interesting to see how he recovers for the rest of the series. Without him Australia's batting would look significantly weaker, particularly with Rogers and Haddin going through a (permanent in Rogers's case?) bad patch and Watson yet to establish himself at 3 fully.

Smith continues to impress. With all the (understandable) focus on Warner and Clarke's knocks, his innings has gone relatively unnoticed. What strikes is his cricket brain and adaptability, and how he can build an innings and go through the gears. I read on twitter that he averages just over 100 in first innings knocks since 2013 - impressive stat if true.

From an Indian perspective I think it unnecessarily harsh and reactionary to judge Virat Kohli's captaincy based on one innings, or to argue that under Dhoni India would have fared better. That is pure speculation. Australia play an aggressive brand of cricket and were always likely to score quickly. The issue with Dhoni's captaincy was not that he went defensive, but that he did so too early, too often and stuck to defensive strategies for too long. I don't see how you can say that Dhoni's approach was justified based on the one innings.

Particularly given that apart from a couple of spells from Ishant Sharma and one from Shami, the Indian bowlers have been poor across the board. I have to say I wasn't particularly impressed by Karn Sharma, although leg-spin is hard (and IMO a lot harder today even than when Warne was playing say) and he is young, so it would be harsh to judge him. I actually think from a technical viewpoint his arm is a bit too high given that he wants to bowl with side-spin predominantly.

KPF's analysis of different types of leg-spin bowling is fairly close to accurate, although over-simplistic. It is certainly harder to beat the batsman in flight when bowling with side-spin than over-spin, but flight it Sharma certainly must learn to do as if you can't deceive the batsman even a little bit in the air then you are relying solely on beating them off the pitch.

The bit about KPF's post I disagree with is that overspin bowlers need more help from the pitch - on the contrary, I would say very much the opposite; side-spin bowlers need the pitch to give them some turn, whereas over-spin bowlers can still deceive the batsman in flight on the flattest of pitches; they are also more likely to bowl with control so will contain more (and therefore more likely induce a false shot) on flat wickets.

Finally a point I feel I must make: Aaron has potential but he isn't fit enough - his pace dropped off notably yesterday, and he was terrible today. Earlier in the England series Pankaj wasn't fit enough. What is it about Indian seamers coming up that they simply aren't fit enough for international cricket? And what is Indian cricket doing (if anything) to change this?

As for future prospects on this game, Australia will almost certainly declare overnight you'd feel. Then it's a question of whether India can bat well enough to save the game (avoiding the follow-on would be a good start, although I'm not convinced Clarke will enforce if given the option). A draw is still a possibility but Australia look favourites right now.
Mike, the point about Kohli/Dhoni was not exactly blaming Kohli as such, but pointing out Dhoni has been coping a lot of unfair criticism. As your own post hints, India just don't have bowling quality overseas to play any brand of cricket other than defensive with the ball, and hopeful with the bat, with expectations for a heroic performace from one of the bowlers....... Ishan Sharma, even when he's not all over the place, isn't a major wickettaking threat, Aaron has speed and not much else going for him at the moment, Shami has clearly regressed as a bowler over the last year, the spinners aren't up to anything special overseas, and the latest option just doesn't seem to be anything special in that department.
Well Of Course there is some validity to the charge of Dhoni sitting back too long at times, and at times taking the foot off when the bowlers get a few things right for a change. But that is the default approach that he's forced to work with, and there are times when he failes to note a moment to do otherwise. Making Kohli the skipper wouldn't make Aaron the next Johnson, Ishant won't turn into McGrath, and Karn won't be the next Warne. Poor old Dhoni needs a bit more understanding, that's all I am saying.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 7:26 pm

Hope the Indian batsmen do a decent job, (not expecting it though), and hope Karn Sharma gives a much better account of himself, my initial doubts about him are only getting stronger, not test class yet....... Bring back Sir Jadeja, at least he'll keep the runs down. Or Ashwin, he can bat!. Not the best approach, but I fear for Karn, if he can't get his act together soon, I feel he would be cast aside for good which will be a pity.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 9:44 pm

Unfortunately he's landed in the middle of the toughest initiation test a player could ever hope for. That, along with all the other question marks noted by msp and others, will make it a very difficult proposition indeed for India - unless one or two batsmen step up with some individual brilliance and take command of our bowling attack. I can see only one player doing that maybe but I fear he will lack sufficient partnership support to equal what Australia have achieved in their 1st innings.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Mike Selig on Wed 10 Dec 2014, 11:12 pm

Sorry msp should have made it clear my comment wasn't aimed at you. Rather there are some guys posting on twitter in particularly idiotic fashion.

My point was simply it is too early to judge the merits of Kohli's more aggressive approach against Dhoni's more cautious one.

Anyway early start suits me, makes it easier for me to stay up and watch the start of play.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by kingraf on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 4:59 am

223/3 big session ahead. Australia clearly miles out in front, but if India can bat out the day for the loss of maybe one more wicket... they are in a position from which not losing becomes a distinct possibility. You'd think given the time left, Australia would dearly love to at least have the option of imposing the follow on, so I think they'll go all out blazing in this session.
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 5:23 am

I have been expecting a massive collapse any time, thankfully it hasn't arrived as yet. And India are still alive in the game, with a half-decent chance of saving the game.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 5:29 am

The problem for India is that beyond Kohli and Rahane, there is not much quality batting left. There is Saha scheduled to bat 7, there is no Bhuvneshwar Kumar or R Ashwin to provide some spark in the lower order. Karn Sharma is classed as an all-rounder, but his domestic stats are nothing great.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by kingraf on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 5:40 am

Yes that is true. Forgot about India's inability to carry a bat from #6(!). Long as India force Australia to have to bat again (I've already assumed you'll see out the day), they've put themselves in a position which is pretty decent. I'd say the draw is the money result from here.
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by kingraf on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 6:07 am

Here we go. Big moment. New ball coming, Aus still bossing this, if they get two with the new ball, it's likely going to be a case of first slowly then all at once
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 6:30 am

Wow we won't be following on!.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 6:31 am

No option but to move to the Alastair Cook School of Thought. Take the positives. Avoiding the follow-on is a great positive to take to the next game.......

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 6:40 am

Ton up for the skipper!!. Well done Virat.
Worrying times as well, Kohli usually doesn't get Daddies.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 6:45 am

Well done Virat.

I don't think the follow on would have been enforced, msp. Australia just need to get Kohli out then try and get through the rest of the batting as quickly as possible. Then bat again and try and pile on some sort of a lead. Batting conditions are peaking at the moment but there's still over 2 (long) days left. Days 4 and 5 will be interesting no doubt. The rough patches are getting bigger.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 7:33 am

Geez... I was just about to say how well India have played today... and they have. Maybe a rush of blood from Virat thinking he could clear Harris there. Great catch that was.

Australia's bowling attack has been very flat today. Mitch doesn't seem properly tuned up and is lacking a bit of fire. (I have a feeling he has suffered very much from the loss of Hughes) Ryan Harris was very tidy early then seemed to lose some accuracy. As for Sidds... something not quite right with him today which is unfortunate for us (tummy upset they say). Thus, Lyon has had to do more of the work and he's done rather well.

Hats off to India today though.
A lot of good starts, a few 50s and a ton from Kohli and now trailing by less than 150 runs.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 9:06 am

Watched the first hour live before bed. Up this morning to find out that India have emerged from the third day a lot better than I expected. As The Dog says, Harris was very tidy then and deserved his wicket. I anticipated more success for him and the other speedsters.

Regardless of whether Clarke would have enforced the follow on, India have done well to deny him the option. Just a shame for them that Kohli fell shortly before stumps, particularly taking into account msp's comments about the lack of batting in the tail.

If pushed for a decision, I would still take Australia to win from here. Although not as big as hoped, they should get a useful first innings lead and have the batsmen to quickly build on that advantage which in turn should give their bowlers (just) enough time to force success.

As a bit of an aside, pleased to see Lyon took a couple of wickets. I know he's not been at his best recently but I like him and feel he's an important cog in the Australian machine.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by KP_fan on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 9:22 am

well i woke up pleasantly surprise this morning.

those looking at glass half empty might complain that anotehr one of top-4 did not go on to get a bigger total.
or that Kohli got out at the wrong time.
but hey...369 runs in a days play against Johnson / Harris etal for the loss of 5 wickets.....any sane Indian cricket follower after their travails in Eng must accept with gratitude to the lord.

Saha is technically good for a 30odd, he is straight bat and more composed than Dhoni as a batsman.
and if Rohit follows the other Indian batmen gets a 60odd, we are heading for a 450ish total.
Karn is not a bad bat, can slog a 20odd but rest will fold quickly...especially if there is neither Saha nor Rohit at the other ened.

450 for India means Aus 65 ahead and about 70 overs in the day.

They score what they can in 70 overs, add 65 runs and give India 90 overs to get it.

this is the most likely scenario ( at least the one I would like to see). 2 possible spoilers:

1) India folds for 400ish tomm morning....handing a clear advantage to Aus
2) India gets 450 but Aus doesn't declare at the end of D4....killing the game.

PS* It does appear though this breed of Indian batting can handle pace and bounce better as they exhibited in SA also, but not swing in English conditions.
They love to stand in crease, get back or tall and hit thru the line that can work on these sorta pitches but not in Eng , especially once ECB decided to turn the pitches green after the criticisms in the Lord test.


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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by ShankyCricket on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 9:53 am

Brilliant from Kohli, not surprised to see him do well in Australia.

Still a wide open game.


If we can get another 100 runs and get within 50 of their total and get Warner early, then maybe, just maybe, we can get hope to do an Adelaide 2003/Adelaide 2006 on Australia on a pitch thats taking sharp turn.
On the other hand, if Aus get one early wicket, we've got a very long tail with no Bhuvi in the side, Mitch will just run through the tail and 369/5 can easily become 400 all out and quickfire runs from Warner and Watson, Aus could still us a target of 380 with 4 sessions to go.

All depends on this pair. Draw probably the slight favourite but all 3 results possible. Exciting test in prospect.

Another failure for Dhawan btw and an embarassing way to get out for an opener.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by kingraf on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 10:18 am

I'm also not too surprised to see Kohli play well in Australia. He was very good over here and I thought he'd front up as a skipper. Pujara also performed well, which is awesome for me, got out to a very good ball which spat up.

The Indian line up showing why I thought they'd done well day one and why it could be argued that had Clarke not come out, they won the day. From here, India need to bat till lunch. They do that, and it takes a rather inspired spell of cricket for Australia to manufacture a win.
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Mike Selig on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 11:34 am

Kohli batted beautifully. I can't believe there were some numpties (on twitter, not here) calling for him to be dropped during the England tour. A player of his class has to be allowed the odd bad run here and there. I enjoyed the way he took on the 2nd new ball, he knew that was a crucial period in the game and really took it by the scruff.

I thought Australia were below par. Johnson looked off colour especially. How much of that is due to recent events we can only speculate, but it was noticeable how reticent he was to bowl his bouncer (and he looked decidedly green when a short ball did clock Kohli early on). Those scars will take a while to heal I reckon.

With Siddle also noticeably off colour this meant Australia struggled somewhat. Lyon did OK, but given the assistance the pitch was giving him in all honesty could have done better. I was a bit disappointed by his lack of consistency, he seems to sometimes go for too much variation rather than building pressure and letting the pitch do some of the work.

Whilst on the subject, clearly I have no future as a groundsman. The pitch has done exactly what I thought it wouldn't do and got slower and lower, with noticeable turn. It has gotten really quite dry.

For that reason I have to say I think India are in with a real chance if (and that's a big if) they can get close to Australia's total. We all know the 3rd innings at Adelaide can produce some strange moments, and Aus will be under a bit of pressure. Sharma should get good help from the pitch, but India may regret not picking a 2nd spinner, Jadeja would have enjoyed this wicket immensely I reckon.

We shouldn't forget that the last 2 days will be extended days. So we have almost 200 overs to go in this test. That's a long way still. Needless to say the first session will be crucial again. Although I don't expect Johnson to be able to blast the tail away as he has done in the past.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by ShankyCricket on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 11:55 am

You clearly have no idea how bad the Indian tail is then. You don't even need Johnson to dismiss the last 4.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Mike Selig on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 1:28 pm

Maybe, maybe not. Shami slogged 60odd against England once, Ishant Sharma can hang around for a while. If Rohit gets going and Saha assists him for a while...

Not saying it's likely, but if India get anything over 450 Aus are under a bit of pressure.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 1:51 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Shami slogged 60odd against England once, Ishant Sharma can hang around for a while. If Rohit gets going and Saha assists him for a while...

Not saying it's likely, but if India get anything over 450 Aus are under a bit of pressure.

Understand the point you're getting at, Mike, but Australia could still have a first innings lead above 60 in that scenario. Many Test teams would settle for being under that type of pressure.

I concede I've mainly followed this Test from cricinfo which is never the premier viewing station but I do feel Australia will need to badly muck up to lose from here.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by kingraf on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 2:00 pm

The reason you feel that way Guildford is because Australia would have to badly muck up to lose from here
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Mike Selig on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 2:10 pm

Australia will have to muck up badly, no doubt about it.

However the 3rd innings at Adelaide has a reputation.

Should India get up to say 460 by lunch tomorrow, Australia will have a first innings lead of 60 with 5 sessions to play. If they collapse from that position they are in trouble. And with the pitch taking increasing turn (and crumbling in a somewhat subcontinental style, which will suit Karn Sharma IMO, and doesn't suit the Australian batting), and with all the turmoil of recent events not quite evacuated, and Australia desperate to do well... I simply put it that it is entirely possible. Not likely, but entirely possible.

Australia are of course still in the driving seat. They will probably get at worst a handy first innings lead, India only have the one spinner and their seamers don't look up to that much, and batting won't get any easier.

But India had a very good day yesterday and have given themselves a path to not only saving this test, but it is conceivable they can win it.

That's really the only point I was making.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by freemo on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 7:01 pm

Mitch Johnson has looked really shaky and out of rhtyhem today.....however was good to see Michael Clarke put his arm round him when he hit Kohli...really rattled him....

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 7:22 pm

Very happy to see my hopes somewhat being realized, and expectations/fears not much so. All of the top 6, including Rohit Sharma got starts, only Kohli converting it to a hundred though, needed one of the other 3 to do that at least. Nevertheless a decent first innings, and that should take this game to day 5 in all likelihood. The Indian lower order without Bhuvneshwar Kumar and Ashwin is hopeless with the bat, Shami can slog, and it might come off ones a year or so. Sharma had the ability to hang around and used to be a determined tailender, but over the last year or so, he hasn't been able to do that that often. Karn Sharma, who is classed as a domestic all-rounder averages 25 in 30 odd FC games, so on his first game, playing away from home conditions, against bowlers who would be on an average quicker by 15-20 KPH, not much to expect from him. Saha isn't too bad, but he's not MSD, and Rohit is Rohit. Hopefully he'll play his innings of the series now, and if he comes off somehow, then India can get closer to the Australian score, take some time off the game, and force the Australians to bat at least till stumps to set a big enough lead. So if India somehow drag this innings to lunch tomorrow, then there is a half decent chance for them to come out with a draw. But if Australia can get one of Saha or Rohit early tomorrow, then the innings can fold in the next 5 overs, and 369-5 can soon become 390 allout. That would mean Australia will have a handy lead, and if Warner or Watson get going at the top, they can build on it very quickly, and put India back in the final hour...... In that case, its going to be a loss by lunch on day 5.......
Won't want to contemplate too far ahead at the moment, just happy with what the batters have achieved so far. Well done to Kohli, Pujara, Rahane and Vijay.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by msp83 on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 7:39 pm

There was some help from the pitch for the spinner. Which spinner in the current squad is best at making the most of the natural variations of the pitch? Would not have been the popular choice of the year selection, but think Jadeja would have made an impact on a track like this....... Lets see what Karn Sharma who was rather disappointing in the first innings, do the 2nd time around. Hoping that the lad would produce a performance of note.......

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 8:52 pm

Mike Selig wrote:Lyon did OK, but given the assistance the pitch was giving him in all honesty could have done better. I was a bit disappointed by his lack of consistency, he seems to sometimes go for too much variation rather than building pressure and letting the pitch do some of the work.

Maybe a slightly harsh assessment, Mike.
I think that's exactly what he was trying to do - build pressure - and I felt he was fairly consistent at doing that as the day wore on.
Apart from a couple of times when Vijay used his feet to attack him early on you could argue that he was a little unlucky thereafter.
A few ones found the inside edge of both Pujara and Kohli and bobbled up tantalisingly close to Steve Smith at short leg.

He was probing for that right length (a very good length... as full as could be on or just off the off stump) but as Warne mentioned, was probably reluctant to reduce speed and go for extra loop and fullness, given that both batsmen were very eager to break his pattern and disrupt his rhythm, which would have opened him up a bit more.

So I think he did rather well in those circumstances. He obviously has that little extra confidence bowling on his carpet too. Especially since our pace attack was mostly struggling... or even off the field (in Siddle's case) for a period of time... one could argue that he almost carried the team there for a while.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by KP_fan on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 9:21 pm

msp83 wrote:There was some help from the pitch for the spinner. Which spinner in the current squad is best at making the most of the natural variations of the pitch? Would not  have been the popular choice of the year selection, but think Jadeja would have made an impact on a track like this....... Lets see what Karn Sharma who was rather disappointing in the first innings, do the 2nd time around. Hoping that the lad would produce a performance of note.......

you have been influenced by some english fans on the board....the most lowly performing guy when left out becomes "the absent match winner"

when jadeja proved useless in Eng.....Ashwin was the match winner sitting in the dressing room...who sat in the dressing room from being the first choice because of his pathetic show in SA and NZ I think.......and after horrible show on pitches where Ali was getting the ball to spin.....now Jadeja is "the man" thumbsup
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by KP_fan on Thu 11 Dec 2014, 9:25 pm

msp83 wrote: then the innings can fold in the next 5 overs, and 369-5 can soon become 390 allout. That would mean Australia will have a handy lead, and if Warner or Watson get going at the top, they can build on it very quickly, and put India back in the final hour...... In that case, its going to be a loss by lunch on day 5.......
scars from the English summer showing on you msp warning
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 12 Dec 2014, 12:57 am

guildfordbat wrote: ...

As a bit of an aside, pleased to see Lyon took a couple of wickets. I know he's not been at his best recently but I like him and feel he's an important cog in the Australian machine.

A deserved fivefer for Lyon as India splutter to 427/9, trailing by 90. As the Aussie pundits have been saying (thank god I haven't had to listen again to Botham!), a lovely display of turn and bounce.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by KP_fan on Fri 12 Dec 2014, 1:12 am

well ind bowled out for 444 and Aus lead by 73. about 10 runs short of what i would have liked Ind....Rohit gave it away and Saha wrongly given out.
it wasn't so much the spin but rather bounce that Lyon got made it difficult to handle him.

75 overs today and a 100 tomm. at worst Ind could be chasing 375 tomm. in 100 overs.

Ind has to get Warner early and Karn has to stand up and get counted for ...there is a lot in this pitch now for him
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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 12 Dec 2014, 1:15 am

I wish Mark Nicholas would get out of the way of the groundsman... he's standing right where he wants to roll. Get outta there, man!! steam

Yes, we were right to keep the faith weren't we, Guildford?

So a 73 run lead for Australia. Pretty much as KP_f foretold....

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 12 Dec 2014, 1:16 am

Excellent low slip catch by Watson accounts for Mohammed Shami, gets Siddle his second wicket and Australia a first innings lead of 73 as India are bowled out for 444. Possibly both teams would have settled for that at the start of today's play.

Australia still in control as I head for bed but what will the morning bring?

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Mike Selig on Fri 12 Dec 2014, 1:35 am

I revise my assessment of Lyon having watched some of the day's play again. He was nervous and a bit inconsistent at the start (yesterday this is) but bowled much better as the day progressed. And he bowled really really well this morning to get his 5-for.

Clarke has had a slightly off-colour couple of days I feel. Mid-off/on have often been too wide, and when Siddle dropped the sitter... no way should Siddle have been in that position, should have swapped with Mitch Johnson who was at deep square and is a more natural fielder. Particularly given that Siddle was bowling. Small margins I know, but those extra 20 or so runs could make a difference. Oh and I thought it was daft that Lyon was bowling to Shami with mid-on up as well.

In any case, some annoying slogging from Shami aside Australia will be pretty pleased ith their morning's work. Think they'll want to play normally until just past tea, and then assess to see if they can get enough on the board for an overnight declaration. Or even a couple of overs tonight if say Warner or Watson really get going. Decent start from India with the ball mind.

Think the pitch will continue to deteriorate. Whether we start to see some up and down bounce for the seamers remains to be seen, but Lyon will definitely enjoy the turn and bounce on offer.

For the record I agree with msp that Jadeja would have liked this pitch. Then again I've always been a bigger fan of his than most seem to be (although his batting in tests at the moment confuses me). Let's see how Sharma gets on though.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 12 Dec 2014, 6:58 am

Declaration soon?


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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 12 Dec 2014, 7:07 am

No, this is too good to watch.

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Re: Australia v India First Test, Adelaide

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